Digital back for full manual mobile setup

orlovsn · Dec 16, 2022

Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

JimKasson · Dec 16, 2022

orlovsn said:
Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

Tech camera and view camera lenses with shutters in the lenses? You'd have to figure out hoe to synch the lenses and the back.

orlovsn · Dec 16, 2022

JimKasson said:
orlovsn said:

Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

Click to expand...

Tech camera and view camera lenses with shutters in the lenses? You'd have to figure out hoe to synch the lenses and the back.

JimKasson · Dec 16, 2022

orlovsn said:
JimKasson said:

orlovsn said:

Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

Click to expand...

Tech camera and view camera lenses with shutters in the lenses? You'd have to figure out hoe to synch the lenses and the back.

Click to expand...

Yep, emotion back can be easily synced with external shutter in something like sinar f2, because there is near no delay in shutter release on trigger activation. But with slr there is delay between button press and shutter open after mirror goes up so I suppose there will be shutter lag problems (but I have never tried actually)

And as my goal is mobile setup with waist level finder, I am more oriented on slr body

Gotcha. Forget the tech camera idea unless you want to use an optical finder.

orlovsn said:
and I wonder maybe there is some “well known technique” for achieving this

On sinar promotion materials those backs are often shown with RZ/RB bodies that also lack any kind of sync, except of flash. And I don’t see any mention of remote release cable trigger (that can also do the job) in manual and any kind of suitable socket for it. I understand that pre-LV sinar backs were oriented on tethered shooting but is back button release is really the only option for faster shutter speeds?

TechTalk2 · Dec 16, 2022

orlovsn said:
Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

I came across this interesting kit currently on eBay which consists of: a Sinar (Jenoptik Eyelike) eMotion 22 22 megapixel back with Synch Cable, Battery & Charger; Hasselblad 500 C/M (1986 serial number) with Focusing Hood (Black), Acute-Matte Focusing Screen, and A-12 film magazine (Black); Hasselblad FlexBody with Reflex Viewfinder RMfx, Slide Set (Stray Light Protection, 10° Correction, & 20° Correction), Focusing Screen Adapter Standard with Acute-Matte, and cable release; Hasselblad 50 mm CF FLE (Floating Lens Element) f/4 Lens; and Case.

The dealer is in Cape Town, South Africa and the kit is shown on their website with additional photos. The kit price on eBay is listed at $5,999 USD.

The Hasselblad Historical website has information on camera model history here, lenses here, and manuals here. Pacific Rim Camera has a Hasselblad 1998 Product Catalog which gives details on most of the items above.

Some useful insights into the FlexBody are also available online. A couple of YouTube videos with good information are available here and here (has English subtitles available thru CC).

Bashir Lunat · Dec 16, 2022

orlovsn said:
Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

You have three choices. 1) Hasselblad 500 series, 2) Mamiya RZ/RB and 3) Bronica ETRS and SQ series. They will all work fine with V mount backs with mount adapter.

Mamiya/Bronica are cheap as chips compared to anything modern.

orlovsn · Dec 18, 2022

Bashir Lunat said:
orlovsn said:

Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

Click to expand...

You have three choices. 1) Hasselblad 500 series, 2) Mamiya RZ/RB and 3) Bronica ETRS and SQ series. They will all work fine with V mount backs with mount adapter.

Mamiya/Bronica are cheap as chips compared to anything modern.

Thanks!

500 series is a nice way to go but unfortunately, there is no back adapter for V nearby and return window for back will not allow to order one from eBay, so I have to choose from mamiya 645 (adapter included with back) or RZ (adapter available nearby)
To my surprise mamiya 645 C lenses are not that rare as I thought and I can built complete kit without problems, but I still have some questions:

- as I understand, I set shutter speed on the lens and when I press shutter button on camera body - shutter is actuated with bayonet pin and sync signal to back is triggered from sync socket on the lens? So I can use any sync cable between lens and back?

- I never had mamiya gear before, how are those lenses compared to zeiss ones for V? I understand it’s a matter of taste question, but I have to blindly decide between getting one-body-one-lens just for back test, ordering adapter and getting V system when it arrives, or simply diving into mamiya system hoping it can cover on same level at least 3 main tasks - one semi-wide lens for landscapes, one short tele for portraits and one nice macro lens. So any replies are welcomed

Colin Dutton · Dec 18, 2022

I use an old Phase One P25 back on a Hasselblad 500cm and a Hasselblad Flexbody. It's a 22mp CCD back and the Zeiss lenses work really well with these older 'large pixel' sensors, producing sharp images with beautiful colour and clarity, easily printable up to A2.

It's mobile, shootable hand-held.. at least in sunny weather as I never take it above 50 iso. You just need a sync cable between the back and the lens and you're good to go.

Focus can be tricky if you're shooting wide open. The newer bodies like the 501 and 503 I think have a more sophisticated mirror mechanism that should provide more accurate focus but I've not tried them.

The Flexbody, on the other hand, is more of a technical system to which you can attach the same lenses and back and which allows vertical shifting and tilting. I fear the frame is not quite stiff enough for the Phase One which is heavier than a film back and I do seem to get some unwanted flex sometimes which can cause parts of the image to go off focus. But it's a nice system to use, especially if you're looking to slow down! The cable between the lens and the back needs to include a wake-up button in this case, as with any technical camera.

I'll attach a full-size image made with the Flexbody and the P25 with some tilt applied to keep foreground and background in focus. You'll see the left hand side is not as sharp as the right so there's some kind of misalignment going on which I don't get when shooting film on it. But in any case I love working with the Hasselblad/Phase One combination. It's strangely satisfying to use older technology sometimes.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your search.

--
-------------------

http://www.colinduttonphotography.com

Bashir Lunat · Dec 18, 2022

orlovsn said:
Bashir Lunat said:

orlovsn said:

Want to slow down a bit and build a full manual setup with optical waist level finder and low-res digital back

Initial idea was to get sinar emotion 75 (I would prefer 22mp version but 33mp is on sale nearby) + m645 super but as I understand, this setup will be limited to 1/60 shutter speed when shutter is released with camera release button (maybe flash sync speed is increased with those super rare leaf shutter Mamiya lenses I have never actually seen in the wild, but doubt I want to rely solo on them)

What are my other options? As I understand, the only way to get reasonable shutter speeds (1/250..1/500) operated from old pre-digital era camera body, is to look on leaf shutter oriented systems?

Click to expand...

You have three choices. 1) Hasselblad 500 series, 2) Mamiya RZ/RB and 3) Bronica ETRS and SQ series. They will all work fine with V mount backs with mount adapter.

Mamiya/Bronica are cheap as chips compared to anything modern.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

500 series is a nice way to go but unfortunately, there is no back adapter for V nearby and return window for back will not allow to order one from eBay, so I have to choose from mamiya 645 (adapter included with back) or RZ (adapter available nearby)
To my surprise mamiya 645 C lenses are not that rare as I thought and I can built complete kit without problems, but I still have some questions:

- as I understand, I set shutter speed on the lens and when I press shutter button on camera body - shutter is actuated with bayonet pin and sync signal to back is triggered from sync socket on the lens? So I can use any sync cable between lens and back?

- I never had mamiya gear before, how are those lenses compared to zeiss ones for V? I understand it’s a matter of taste question, but I have to blindly decide between getting one-body-one-lens just for back test, ordering adapter and getting V system when it arrives, or simply diving into mamiya system hoping it can cover on same level at least 3 main tasks - one semi-wide lens for landscapes, one short tele for portraits and one nice macro lens. So any replies are welcomed

Please read Colin's reply re Hasselblad and Phase One P25. This should also apply to P21 and P30 backs. Please remember you have to get V mount backs to mount straight on Hasselblad bodies without needing any adapters. However a cable is needed between lens and back and you are ready to go.

The same back(s) could also be mounted (with appropriate adapters on the back of Mamiya RB/RZ and Bronica bodies. You will also need sync cables with in-built wake up button.

RE Mamiya lenses, I have some RZ lenses and they are second to none in terms of IQ.

Infact, Z Sekor 250 APO and 350APO are perhaps equal to Zeiss SA lenses for much lees cost. To carry RZ ad some lenses you will need a wheelbarrow

Nevertheless,whichever camera system you go for, you will enjoy. Best wishes.

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Digital back for full manual mobile setup

orlovsn

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JimKasson

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orlovsn

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JimKasson

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TechTalk2

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Bashir Lunat

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orlovsn

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Colin Dutton

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Bashir Lunat

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