Print comparison: Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta vs. Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique

In a previous thread I asked for advice on ink jet paper for prints, and Jim suggested Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique -- I decided to compare this to Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta which I've printed on before and love. I received some test prints from my printer (Stockbridge in Philly) on both papers, here are my observations.

I printed this photo:



From the original edit for screen (above), I increase exposure by 0.1 stop but made no other changes to the print files. Overall, both papers look fantastic and I would be happy with either one. There were two notable differences:

1) The Hahnemühle has a slight yellow tone which is apparent in the highlights, whereas the Canson is pure white. This makes the Canson appear to have brighter whites and slightly more contrast.

2) The Hahnemühle has a more pronounced texture and more gloss.

For this photo I'm going to print on the Canson. The 0.1 stop exposure boost turned out to be just right, although the shadows were slightly darker in the prints than I expected so will add a little shadows boost for final prints.

Here's a few photos I took with my iphone in overcast light from my window to give you a sense:


Hahnemühle


Canson


Hahnemühle texture


Canson texture

I have some 10+ years prints on both the Canson and Hahnemuhle. Looking at them again, I can see a slight yellow tint on the Canson. It's nowhere as yellow as all the prints I did on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but it is noticeable. The Hahnemuhle prints does not exhibit any yellowing. If I remember correctly, the Canson paper is made with optical brighteners that may yellow over time.

Lumpia said:

I have some 10+ years prints on both the Canson and Hahnemuhle. Looking at them again, I can see a slight yellow tint on the Canson. It's nowhere as yellow as all the prints I did on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but it is noticeable. The Hahnemuhle prints does not exhibit any yellowing.

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Hi, interesting. To be clear, the printer mentioned that the slight yellow tint is a feature of the paper (not color instability from aging).

It looks like aging to me. When I compare the Canson, Hahnemuhle, and Iford prints, the Ilford has changed the most and then Canson. The Hahnemuhle still looks like a fresh print. I haven't viewed those prints in a while. I only pulled it out to view because of your post. It was all an interesting surprise to me.

Lumpia said:

It looks like aging to me. When I compare the Canson, Hahnemuhle, and Iford prints, the Ilford has changed the most and then Canson. The Hahnemuhle still looks like a fresh print. I haven't viewed those prints in a while. I only pulled it out to view because of your post. It was all an interesting surprise to me.

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I’m not exactly sure when the printer purchased the papers but they’re using the Hannemuhle regularly so I’m guessing it’s fairly new.

I'm fairly certain the yellow tint on my Canson prints is the result of aging. I probably wouldn't have printed on it if the paper exhibited this degree of yellow when I first purchased it.

According to the respective manufacturer’s website the Canson paper contains a moderate amount of OBA and the Hahnemuehle doesn’t contain any. This probably explains the yellowing of the Canson over time. I’m most disappointed at how the Ilford prints have held up.

I live in Philly, and hadn't heard of that lab. Thanks for the pointer.

spilla said:

Jim suggested Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique -- I decided to compare this to Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta which I've printed on before and love.... [H]ere are my observations.

From the original edit for screen (above), I increase exposure by 0.1 stop but made no other changes to the print files. Overall, both papers look fantastic and I would be happy with either one. There were two notable differences:

1) The Hahnemühle has a slight yellow tone which is apparent in the highlights, whereas the Canson is pure white. This makes the Canson appear to have brighter whites and slightly more contrast.

2) The Hahnemühle has a more pronounced texture and more gloss.

Click to expand...

First, Canson Baryta Photographique was discontinued some years ago--as were other papers many regarded as very similar, such as Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta (and Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk). There is now a Canson Baryta Photographique II, but it is mostly regarded as not the same thing. Some people (and maybe some printing services?) have hoarded the older-type papers.

Second, both Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Photographique II have alpha cellulose bases, but Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta has a cotton base. Some people much prefer or even insist on cotton-base papers, but I'm not one of them. But they are different.

Great thread Scott.

The stuff that matters.

Following with interest.

spilla said:

Lumpia said:

I have some 10+ years prints on both the Canson and Hahnemuhle. Looking at them again, I can see a slight yellow tint on the Canson. It's nowhere as yellow as all the prints I did on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but it is noticeable. The Hahnemuhle prints does not exhibit any yellowing.

Click to expand...

Hi, interesting. To be clear, the printer mentioned that the slight yellow tint is a feature of the paper (not color instability from aging).

Click to expand...

I believe Lumpia is referring to the Canson - which yellows with age, not the yellow highlight hue you are observing with the fresh Hahnemuhle.


As Lumpia correctly states, the Canson contains OB’s - which don’t last, they will erode with time. Also the base of the Canson is buffered wood pulp - this will also yellow with time. The Hahnemuhle base is acid free cotton.

So while the Canson will appear whiter when new, this probably won’t last, while the Hahnemuhle will be as stable as any fine art work on a similar cotton rag paper (it’ll be the inks that fade first - dependant on UV glass and strength of light).

Adam007 said:

I live in Philly, and hadn't heard of that lab. Thanks for the pointer.

Click to expand...

Yes they're excellent and happy to work with you.

left eye said:

spilla said:

Lumpia said:

I have some 10+ years prints on both the Canson and Hahnemuhle. Looking at them again, I can see a slight yellow tint on the Canson. It's nowhere as yellow as all the prints I did on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but it is noticeable. The Hahnemuhle prints does not exhibit any yellowing.

Click to expand...

Hi, interesting. To be clear, the printer mentioned that the slight yellow tint is a feature of the paper (not color instability from aging).

Click to expand...

I believe Lumpia is referring to the Canson - which yellows with age, not the yellow highlight hue you are observing with the fresh Hahnemuhle.

As Lumpia correctly states, the Canson contains OB’s - which don’t last, they will erode with time. Also the base of the Canson is buffered wood pulp - this will also yellow with time. The Hahnemuhle base is acid free cotton.

So while the Canson will appear whiter when new, this probably won’t last, while the Hahnemuhle will be as stable as any fine art work on a similar cotton rag paper (it’ll be the inks that fade first - dependant on UV glass and strength of light).

Click to expand...

Yup got it, thanks!

I'm trying to clarify that for this post, I'm comparing the look of the papers when they're brand new.

left eye said:

left eye said:

left eye said:

I have some 10+ years prints on both the Canson and Hahnemuhle. Looking at them again, I can see a slight yellow tint on the Canson. It's nowhere as yellow as all the prints I did on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but it is noticeable. The Hahnemuhle prints does not exhibit any yellowing.

Click to expand...

Hi, interesting. To be clear, the printer mentioned that the slight yellow tint is a feature of the paper (not color instability from aging).

Click to expand...

I believe Lumpia is referring to the Canson - which yellows with age, not the yellow highlight hue you are observing with the fresh Hahnemuhle.

As Lumpia correctly states, the Canson contains OB’s - which don’t last, they will erode with time. Also the base of the Canson is buffered wood pulp - this will also yellow with time. The Hahnemuhle base is acid free cotton.

So while the Canson will appear whiter when new, this probably won’t last, while the Hahnemuhle will be as stable as any fine art work on a similar cotton rag paper (it’ll be the inks that fade first - dependant on UV glass and strength of light).

Click to expand...

There are a couple of issues to unpack regarding papers with OBAs and potential yellowing.

First, AFAIK, papers with OBAs do not so much yellow over time, as they yellow over UV light exposure (which may or may not be more-or-less proportional to time). Basically, the OBAs absorb UV light and as a result emit somewhat blue-ish visible-spectrum light--but the OBAs 'burn out' and produce this effect to a decreasing degree as they've absorbed UV light. So the papers with OBAs look yellower and duller, relative to where they started. But this is mostly (maybe exclusively) a function of the 'dose' of UV exposure, not simply time, and a high-OBA paper kept in an album or portfolio might look like new for a very long time.

Second--and really it would be best to get this from an expert like Mark McCormick of Aardenburg--I seem to recall that not all OBA content is created equal, and longevity / performance overt time and light exposure depends in substantial part on where the OBAs are physically within the paper. The amount of OBAs, which does vary over a considerable range, is not the only factor.

I posted my observations just in case you were thinking about keeping the print for a long time. If it’s only for a short period, then my comments don’t apply.

Lumpia said:

I posted my observations just in case you were thinking about keeping the print for a long time. If it’s only for a short period, then my comments don’t apply.

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By the way, I have a print on Epson Exhibition Fiber that has been in a place where it is illuminated by daylight all the time the sun is up, and by direct sunlight a couple of hours a day. It's been there for more than ten years.

It has lost that bluish look to the substrate, but the colors still look great. I haven't compared it to a new print of the same image, though.

I think we touched on this already in the medium format thread:

- The Photo Rag Baryta is without OBAs and slightly warmer. If you prefer the Hahnemühle texture and pure white, then you have to select the Fineart Baryta.

- The Canson you used is very close the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. Both are no longer available and the Photographique II has slightly different, more homogenous texture.

- I have not heard beforehand about a significant yellowing of the GFS paper. I don’t see this with prints, which are 9 years old hanging at a wall without a glass cover (but no direct sun light).

- I’m not sure if it holds true, that Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta is not showing yellowing after 10+ years. I always thought market introduction was less than 10 years. So maybe you are referring to Fineart Baryta (which contains OBAs)?

- For the picture you have shown, I would also think about the Hahnemühle Metallic or Canson Baryta Prestige II. Both deliver some exceptional results with night scenes and neon lights….

tom43 said:

I think we touched on this already in the medium format thread:

- The Photo Rag Baryta is without OBAs and slightly warmer. If you prefer the Hahnemühle texture and pure white, then you have to select the Fineart Baryta.

- The Canson you used is very close the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. Both are no longer available and the Photographique II has slightly different, more homogenous texture.

- I have not heard beforehand about a significant yellowing of the GFS paper. I don’t see this with prints, which are 9 years old hanging at a wall without a glass cover (but no direct sun light).

- I’m not sure if it holds true, that Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta is not showing yellowing after 10+ years. I always thought market introduction was less than 10 years. So maybe you are referring to Fineart Baryta (which contains OBAs)?

- For the picture you have shown, I would also think about the Hahnemühle Metallic or Canson Baryta Prestige II. Both deliver some exceptional results with night scenes and neon lights….

Click to expand...

It appears to me that your response is directed to someone besides me. The paper I was talking about in the casual fading test was Epson Exhibition Fiber.

Sorry Jim, I wanted to refer to “Lumpia’s” post.

tom43 said:

Sorry Jim, I wanted to refer to “Lumpia’s” post.

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With that explanation, I hope Lumpia’s will respond.