Upgrading GX80. Switching from M43?

Hey,

just more than a year ago I switched from canon apsc to m43 after >10 years. Since I do hike a lot m43 is quite perfect, small and light

I have the GX80 with 12-32mm, 35-100mm, 25mm 1.7

However after a few shootings I am not as satisfied as I thought I am. I shoot landscapes (and just started filming a bit) and after going through images from my last trip I find images that I shot during or around sunset/sunrise to be a bit noisy or not having a lot of dynamic range to work with. ISO-200 is the lowest and even without edit you can see a bit of noise. If I adjust contrast, shadows or whatever it gets noisy quite fast. Also cropping reduces the quality quite fast (16MP)

So I assume that an upgrade to e.g. GX9 or G9 would not help much since it is the same sensor. Right? Is my only option to go back to APSC? I really like the size and weight. Fuji or Sony probably since the canon apsc's are quite big (Had the 500D for 10 years and then the 77D for maybe 2 years)

Basically I would like to have..

• More dynamic range
• A bit more MP
• Good video capabilites (dont need fast AF or anything, I record a little bit of nature/hiking videos)

Any advice?

If noise is your bugaboo, a much cheaper "upgrade" is to buy DxO PhotoLab 5 Elite or PureRAW and apply its DeepPRIME noise reduction to your RAW files. Compared to processing with, say, Lightroom Classic, it delivers a huge improvement, possibly as much as moving from MFT to 35mm format. I shoot low-light indoor corporate events for a living, and I wouldn't dream of using anything else.

Jacques Cornell said:

If noise is your bugaboo, a much cheaper "upgrade" is to buy DxO PhotoLab 5 Elite or PureRAW and apply its DeepPRIME noise reduction to your RAW files. Compared to processing with, say, Lightroom Classic, it delivers a huge improvement, possibly as much as moving from MFT to 35mm format. I shoot low-light indoor corporate events for a living, and I wouldn't dream of using anything else.

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This looks very interesting. Thanks for the suggestion!

The GX80 is getting a bit long in the tooth, although I'd buy one tomorrow if it was a nice deal.

I take it you have tried exposing to the right (i.e. overexposing so you just don't blow the highlights, to get more photons in on the shadows)?

You should definitely look at the upcoming OM-systems M5.IV. It will have a sensor 2 generations newer than yours, back-side illuminated with quad-bayar and 20mp. Noise & dynamic range should be better.

I agree with Jacques. DXO software and RAW will completely transform what you think your GX85 is capable of. If that's still not enough then by all means consider another sensor format or a G9/GH5ii.

Some low light/high ISO examples I've shot and processed with DxO with Deep Prime NR here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1iLK8pTk258UGRAj8

signon said:

So I assume that an upgrade to e.g. GX9 or G9 would not help much since it is the same sensor. Right?

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Not quite. GX9 and G9 use a newer 20mp sensors from Sony, so you get more pixels, more dynamic range and more tonal range. Difference in noise is small, you'd probably not notice it. One huge difference is with long exposures. That's a real weakness of the Panasonic sensors like the one in GX80 (a reason why BULB mode is limited in duration on GX80).

signon said:

Basically I would like to have..

• More dynamic range
• A bit more MP
• Good video capabilites (dont need fast AF or anything, I record a little bit of nature/hiking videos)

Click to expand...

If there will be an OM-5 with handheld high res mode, this is what I would recommend. Such high res shot not only gives you a significant bump in resolution, it also significantly improves dynamic range and lowers the noise. We're talking full-frame level image quality. But even a single shot from the newest sensor is noticeably less noisy than your GX80 (although modern APS-C sensors will be even better).

But anyway, any current model, regardless of brand, will be an improvement over your camera, to be honest. Even at the time GX80 launched, it was already using a behind-the-curve sensor (A GX8 that launched a year earlier used a better 20mp sensor already).

You can go for APS-C now and get an immediate improvement in all the aspect you are complaining about..

Fuji has some good cameras and lenses to go with them, so IMO, it's a safe bet.

Sony is a bit more tricky. A6600 is the only option if you actually want to get the full benefit of the larger sensor. A6400 has 12-bit raws and it shows in dynamic range, which is no better than modern m4/3 cameras. The problem with Sony is that they don't have a good compact zoom lens, which might be important for you. Their 16-50 pancake is really bad.

I would not bother with Canon's and Nikon's APS-C offering. At least not yet. I fully expect them to treat their APS-C offering the same way as they did in DSLR days. Which is provide a bare minimum of slow, consumer-grade zooms and tell you to buy full-frame glass if you need anything else.

Alternatively, you can wait a bit and see what Panasonic and OM System will have to offer below their flagships (GH6 and OM-1). The upcoming OM-5 will most likely use the newest sensor, the question is which features will be cut out compared to OM-1. And it will be interesting to see if Panasonic brings the 25mp sensor to lower end models or if this is a GH6 exclusive.

signon said:

I have the GX80 with 12-32mm, 35-100mm, 25mm 1.7

However after a few shootings I am not as satisfied as I thought I am. I shoot landscapes (and just started filming a bit) and after going through images from my last trip I find images that I shot during or around sunset/sunrise to be a bit noisy or not having a lot of dynamic range to work with.

So I assume that an upgrade to e.g. GX9 or G9 would not help much since it is the same sensor. Right?

Click to expand...

No, as mentioned above the GX9 and G9 have a 20MP sensor compared with the GX80's 16MP sensor. You will get better DR from the 20MP sensor.

signon said:

• More dynamic range
• A bit more MP
• Good video capabilites (dont need fast AF or anything, I record a little bit of nature/hiking videos)

Any advice?

Click to expand...

Your 12-32mm kit lens is f3.5-5.6 and you don't mention which version of the 35-100mm lens you have but if it's the f4-5.6 then both of your zooms are slow. You could replace them with the 12-35mm f2.8 and 35-100mm f2.8 both of which will provide more light and help you keep ISO down which will reduce noise.

That said, M4/3 cameras do struggle a bit when light is low. I've been shooting M4/3 for 6 years (GX85 and G95) and recently added the Panasonic full frame S5 to my gear. It has made a big difference to my low-light shooting. But of course it is bigger and heavier. The body is similar to a G9 (a bit smaller in fact) and the kit 20-60mm lens is compact and lightweight. But the telephoto lenses (e.g. 70-300mm) are hefty.

signon said:

Hey,
just more than a year ago I switched from canon apsc to m43 after >10 years. Since I do hike a lot m43 is quite perfect, small and light

I have the GX80 with 12-32mm, 35-100mm, 25mm 1.7

However after a few shootings I am not as satisfied as I thought I am. I shoot landscapes (and just started filming a bit) and after going through images from my last trip I find images that I shot during or around sunset/sunrise to be a bit noisy or not having a lot of dynamic range to work with. ISO-200 is the lowest and even without edit you can see a bit of noise. If I adjust contrast, shadows or whatever it gets noisy quite fast. Also cropping reduces the quality quite fast (16MP)

So I assume that an upgrade to e.g. GX9 or G9 would not help much since it is the same sensor. Right? Is my only option to go back to APSC? I really like the size and weight. Fuji or Sony probably since the canon apsc's are quite big (Had the 500D for 10 years and then the 77D for maybe 2 years)

Basically I would like to have..

• More dynamic range
• A bit more MP
• Good video capabilites (dont need fast AF or anything, I record a little bit of nature/hiking videos)

Any advice?

Click to expand...

I noticed that when I went from my EM10 to a Pen-F then to a an EM1.2 and noticed with each I got a lot more room to adjust photos.

Here’s an example. I was shooting right into the sunrise trying to capture a sunstar at the right moment, so I’ve got extreme contrast, but using only Lightroom mobile, I was able to recover shadows and highlights really well.



Don’t underestimate M43. The EM1.2, EM1.3, EM1x, OM1 are excellent cameras.

--
NHT

NowHearThis said:

I noticed that when I went from my EM10 to a Pen-F then to a an EM1.2 and noticed with each I got a lot more room to adjust photos.

Here’s an example. I was shooting right into the sunrise trying to capture a sunstar at the right moment, so I’ve got extreme contrast, but using only Lightroom mobile, I was able to recover shadows and highlights really well.



Don’t underestimate M43. The EM1.2, EM1.3, EM1x, OM1 are excellent cameras.

Click to expand...

And this is the kind of scenario where Handheld High Res mode would work wonders. Since that mode merges 16 images, one of the side effects is drastic reduction of noise, resulting in much, much cleaner deep shadows in photos like this. So in this particular case, you would reduce the exposure even more, maybe by an additional stop, and would still be able to recover the detail from the shadows while maintaining more of the highlights.

The same applies to Live ND mode as well. Which can be reproduced manually in-camera with most Olympus models, here's my how-to post on that topic .

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My photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/astrotripper2000/

Astrotripper said:

NowHearThis said:

I noticed that when I went from my EM10 to a Pen-F then to a an EM1.2 and noticed with each I got a lot more room to adjust photos.

Here’s an example. I was shooting right into the sunrise trying to capture a sunstar at the right moment, so I’ve got extreme contrast, but using only Lightroom mobile, I was able to recover shadows and highlights really well.



Don’t underestimate M43. The EM1.2, EM1.3, EM1x, OM1 are excellent cameras.

Click to expand...

And this is the kind of scenario where Handheld High Res mode would work wonders. Since that mode merges 16 images, one of the side effects is drastic reduction of noise, resulting in much, much cleaner deep shadows in photos like this. So in this particular case, you would reduce the exposure even more, maybe by an additional stop, and would still be able to recover the detail from the shadows while maintaining more of the highlights.

The same applies to Live ND mode as well. Which can be reproduced manually in-camera with most Olympus models, here's my how-to post on that topic .

Click to expand...

Sadly, all I had was my EM1.2 which lacks the HHHR Mode, still, I'm quite happy with how well and with how little effort it takes to pull in what looks like lost detail.

--
NHT

For a long time I have used both m43 and full frame, but only in raw, for a while now a GX9 and a Z6.

The GX80 uses the now ancient 16mp m43 sensor and SOC.

The GX9 is now an older camera but has a newer sensor than the GX80. I believe it is the 20mp sensor still in wide use but the SOCs have changed (as in allowing in-camera video log recording). I have few complaints about the GX9 raw image quality, particularly considering its hefitude.

The OP is not heavily invested in quality m43 lenses so a change to a larger sensor size is up to her. The heftitude penalty of FF compared to m43 or APS for the vast majority of uses, in my humble, tends to negate overall advantages in image quality. But to each her own.

I urge the OP to evaluate the EVFs in whatever camera is of interest. The biggest problem I have with the GX9, which I use heavily, is that the quality of the eye level EVF is execrable, usable only for framing but bearing no resemblance to the quality of the image being captured. The eye level EVF of my Nikon Z6 by comparison seems like viewing through a pentaprism.