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Photography is dying...

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I understand that point. I need different things for different cameras. My ILC must have good accessibility to wide variety of lenses, ability to take an auxiliary flash, and an optical viewfinder, but my compact camera must only have an eyelevel viewfinder and a decent zoom range, my do everything camera must have a super optical zoom range and an eye level viewfinder, but my cell phone camera just has to have a good screen, at least some way to offer some different fields of view, produce good image quality and fit well in my pocket. And my for fun cameras can be almost anything.

But they are all cameras.
 
007peter said:
dbdalrymple said:
007peter said:
The anti-camera hysteria is real. While I ❤️ dedicated camera for its gadgetry, it's becoming less convenient & invite more hostility. To me, the issue isn't about arguing if smartphone is killing camera sales, but about the real world hostility one experience using camera in the real world. Outside our dpr discussions bubble, using dedicated camera in 2022 invites more trouble than its worth.
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I've never had a fish or a mountain complain about whether I'm using a Canon P&S, Oly Tough, Oly M43 or Nikon FF camera. If you consistently face hostility when you appear in public with a camera, perhaps the problem is with how it is used or who is using it instead of with the camera type.
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Not at all, and I can easily prove it by using my smartphone to take photos. Same person, same "Attitudes" just a different camera and I was allow to take photo @the place security guards said I can't.

In fact, when I told the security guard this makes NO SENSE as I can use my phone to take a picture but can't with a dedicated camera. He told me that's the policy.
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if you can't figure out why the ways people use technologies effect the ways organizations enforce against technologies you don't have much meaningful understanding to contribute to this topic.
007peter said:
I can use my Smartphone Every where without any harassment, can't said the same about camera.

If U actual shoot in the real world, you will encounter harassment Sooner than later. Good luck to you when it hits you.
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If you think that an organization, on it's property, choosing what and how to enforce rules that you don't like, when you go to it's property is harassment I think there is an error in your understanding of harassment. The guard was right to not engage with someone who would not understand.
007peter said:
007peter said:
Dale B. Dalrymple
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I can understand that if fish and mountains are all you take photos of, but if you spend much time in the USA taking photos with a big ILC camera around a lot of people that do not know you, especially with young children involved or present, I will guarantee it won't be long before someone is paying very close attention to you, and questioning your motives, if not actually confronting you.

Sad that that is happening, but unfortunately a sign of the times. Like many things this day and age, a few really bad apples are rotting the whole bunch for lots of great people trying to enjoy photography and some other hobbies.
 
LiNGo0 said:
Lensmate said:
Mackiesback said:
Lensmate said:
RIPbiker13 said:
I think the only real difference now is; people that just want to snap a few photos don't have to buy a dedicated camera do that. I'm wondering if I'm alone in this thinking.
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Count the phones in this snap...lol

-M
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Well, to be fair, most venues like this don't allow cameras unless you have credentials. Not sure that would change anything though.
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Another words, venues don't view cellphones as cameras then....

-M
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That’s why you bring a Ricoh GR haha
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Or what I brought- look at the image exif data from the photo I enclosed.

-M
 
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Darrell Spreen said:
tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
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At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
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Not sure I understand this point.

I still think they are very different! I need a good viewfinder, additional lenses, "grippable" design, off-camera flash, and more.

I know there are ways to "trick-out" a cell phone with some of the same things, but then it becomes close to the size of compact cameras and still misses the functionality.
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Not all cameras are equally functional. Not all cameras have a viewfinder. Not all cameras can use additional lenses. Not all cameras have flash shoes. Not all cameras are equally "grippable".

Are GoPros not video cameras because they lack almost every feature found in video cameras and depend on a smartphone for a viewfinder?

--
Tom
 
sybersitizen said:
tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
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At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
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I can. And I've seen do you so in these forums, frequently. We can do so because they're intentionally differentiated tools.
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I'm not suggesting that you agree with my point of view on this.

What if they removed all the functionality from a smartphone and sold it as a camera? What if they had done that 15 years ago and then added functionality until it was like today's smartphones? Does video make today's cameras something different from those that didn't have video? Actually, I don't believe I have said smartphones weren't cameras. I have always said they weren't very good cameras because they were designed to be held vertically and they have too much functionality which has led to compromises in ergonomics. Anyways my point is so many people now use their smartphones as their cameras that there is no sense in separating the two when it comes to photography.

--
Tom
 
BackToNature1 said:
Last I check, the last several years has seen less choices for Real Cameras while the overall camera markets has continually shrunk. So I don't see how that's being in a Good place. Meanwhile, costs compared to entry level DSLRs seem to have at least, Doubled.
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We have gone through replacing many means over time, be it large format, film, medium format... none of that killed photography in itself. Meanwhile, there are more "photographers" today then ever before, and more "good" photos are taken today then before. I don't see how that is being in a Bad place.
 
tbcass said:
sybersitizen said:
tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
Click to expand...
At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
Click to expand...
I can. And I've seen do you so in these forums, frequently. We can do so because they're intentionally differentiated tools.
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting that you agree with my point of view on this.

What if they removed all the functionality from a smartphone and sold it as a camera? What if they had done that 15 years ago and then added functionality until it was like today's smartphones? Does video make today's cameras something different from those that didn't have video? Actually, I don't believe I have said smartphones weren't cameras. I have always said they weren't very good cameras because they were designed to be held vertically and they have too much functionality which has led to compromises in ergonomics. Anyways my point is so many people now use their smartphones as their cameras that there is no sense in separating the two when it comes to photography.
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tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
Click to expand...
At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
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RIPbiker13 said:
tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
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At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
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With this, I will respectfully agree to disagree. My S22 Ultra, touted as the best zoom camera in a cellphone and comparable to the newest iPhone camera. The pictures are great but they not anywhere near the quality I get with my dedicated camera with a purpose built lens.
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Quality of output isn't my point. Small sensor P&S cameras in the past were dedicated cameras yet didn't have as good an IQ as today's smartphones. Maybe the problem is using the term "dedicated". What we should be saying is smartphone cameras to show it's just another type of camera.

--
Tom
 
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sportyaccordy said:
Yea it's definitely a balance. And things can shift that balance. Before I had kids I used to take a ton of photos on trips. Now my wife discourages me to even bring the camera when we travel. "Just use the phone"
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LiNGo0 said:
sportyaccordy said:
Yea it's definitely a balance. And things can shift that balance. Before I had kids I used to take a ton of photos on trips. Now my wife discourages me to even bring the camera when we travel. "Just use the phone"
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I’m in the same boat. I’m not going to lie, it drives me up the wall when my wife tells me that. It’s easy for people to say to “just use a phone” when they can’t appreciate the difference between a dedicated camera and a phone.
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I think that the problem here is that photography tends to be an anti-social activity. The photographer keeps on interrupting proceedings to take shots, and if the photographer has pretensions about arranging the shot, working out composition and faffing around with the controls the interruptions are more noisome, A quick snap on a phone isn't half as disruptive. Mostly, if you want to do serious photography it's an activity you do by yourself or with other photographers. If you just want snaps, use the phone.
 
LiNGo0 said:
sportyaccordy said:
Yea it's definitely a balance. And things can shift that balance. Before I had kids I used to take a ton of photos on trips. Now my wife discourages me to even bring the camera when we travel. "Just use the phone"
Click to expand...
I’m in the same boat. I’m not going to lie, it drives me up the wall when my wife tells me that. It’s easy for people to say to “just use a phone” when they can’t appreciate the difference between a dedicated camera and a phone.
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Probably the same People' that can't tell the difference between a Porsche or a Toyota, let alone a Leica from a Android cellphone/camera.. Gotta love em' L
 
LiNGo0 said:
sportyaccordy said:
Yea it's definitely a balance. And things can shift that balance. Before I had kids I used to take a ton of photos on trips. Now my wife discourages me to even bring the camera when we travel. "Just use the phone"
Click to expand...
I’m in the same boat. I’m not going to lie, it drives me up the wall when my wife tells me that. It’s easy for people to say to “just use a phone” when they can’t appreciate the difference between a dedicated camera and a phone.
Click to expand...
My wife encourages the camera every trip...we never use the phone to take photos- ugh!

I do the camera work and she does the video work with a dedicated video cam.

Phone is only used sparingly for navigation.

-M
 
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LeicaEye said:
LiNGo0 said:
sportyaccordy said:
Yea it's definitely a balance. And things can shift that balance. Before I had kids I used to take a ton of photos on trips. Now my wife discourages me to even bring the camera when we travel. "Just use the phone"
Click to expand...
I’m in the same boat. I’m not going to lie, it drives me up the wall when my wife tells me that. It’s easy for people to say to “just use a phone” when they can’t appreciate the difference between a dedicated camera and a phone.
Click to expand...
Probably the same People' that can't tell the difference between a Porsche or a Toyota, let alone a Leica from a Android cellphone/camera.. Gotta love em' L
Click to expand...
 
LiNGo0 said:
LeicaEye said:
LiNGo0 said:
sportyaccordy said:
Yea it's definitely a balance. And things can shift that balance. Before I had kids I used to take a ton of photos on trips. Now my wife discourages me to even bring the camera when we travel. "Just use the phone"
Click to expand...
I’m in the same boat. I’m not going to lie, it drives me up the wall when my wife tells me that. It’s easy for people to say to “just use a phone” when they can’t appreciate the difference between a dedicated camera and a phone.
Click to expand...
Probably the same People' that can't tell the difference between a Porsche or a Toyota, let alone a Leica from a Android cellphone/camera.. Gotta love em' L
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It pains me to say that you just described my wife haha. She describes cars to me by their colors, and can’t discern between high quality ribeye and tough sirloin steaks. I suppose life would be much easier if I were more like my wife. In some ways, I think we’re cursed to be dissatisfied with phone cameras. We would be saving so much $$$
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Pretty much in the same boat here.. I bought my wife a Pink Lumix P&S many moons ago, oh she said, lovely it must take good pics it's pink.. Say no more...🫣 L
 
LiNGo0 said:
tbcass said:
sybersitizen said:
tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
Click to expand...
At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
Click to expand...
I can. And I've seen do you so in these forums, frequently. We can do so because they're intentionally differentiated tools.
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting that you agree with my point of view on this.

What if they removed all the functionality from a smartphone and sold it as a camera? What if they had done that 15 years ago and then added functionality until it was like today's smartphones? Does video make today's cameras something different from those that didn't have video? Actually, I don't believe I have said smartphones weren't cameras. I have always said they weren't very good cameras because they were designed to be held vertically and they have too much functionality which has led to compromises in ergonomics. Anyways my point is so many people now use their smartphones as their cameras that there is no sense in separating the two when it comes to photography.
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I see where you’re coming from, but I beg to differ. For a lot of the points you just made, it makes more sense to separate a dedicated camera vs a phone with the capability to take photographs. They were designed for different things from the ground up. While phones have certainly come a long way and are no longer used as much for making telephone voice calls, I think in general cameras are for photography, and phones are for communication and accessing media. Very different devices for different use cases.
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How about if I call it a smartphone camera to show it's just another type of camera like DSLR, Mirrorless, M43, P&S, Bridge, etc? I say this because the smartphone has become the only type of camera that many to most people use.

--
Tom
 
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Have bought my wife 2 new pretty decent cameras since I bought my newest one in 2015, and they both are in her desk drawer because she gets way better photos with her iphone.
 
tbcass said:
sybersitizen said:
tbcass said:
RIPbiker13 said:
To clarify, when I said a dedicated camera, I meant a device that is solely used to take photos. That's not to say a cell phone is not a camera, I'm saying it's not a dedicated device.
Click to expand...
At this stage of the game, I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.
Click to expand...
I can. And I've seen do you so in these forums, frequently. We can do so because they're intentionally differentiated tools.
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting that you agree with my point of view on this.
Click to expand...
If the actual meaning of your statement is 'a smartphone camera is a camera', I agree.
tbcass said:
What if they removed all the functionality from a smartphone and sold it as a camera? What if they had done that 15 years ago and then added functionality until it was like today's smartphones? Does video make today's cameras something different from those that didn't have video? Actually, I don't believe I have said smartphones weren't cameras. I have always said they weren't very good cameras because they were designed to be held vertically and they have too much functionality which has led to compromises in ergonomics. Anyways my point is so many people now use their smartphones as their cameras that there is no sense in separating the two when it comes to photography.
Click to expand...
The statement was 'I don't believe you can separate smartphones from dedicated cameras.' We can and do separate all sorts of cameras based on all sorts of real differences, but we aren't saying they're not all cameras.
 
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LiNGo0 said:
I see where you’re coming from, but I beg to differ. For a lot of the points you just made, it makes more sense to separate a dedicated camera vs a phone with the capability to take photographs. They were designed for different things from the ground up. While phones have certainly come a long way and are no longer used as much for making telephone voice calls, I think in general cameras are for photography, and phones are for communication and accessing media. Very different devices for different use cases.
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Not sure what is meant with the statement that phones are no longer used as much for making telephone voice calls.

Almost everybody I know has abandoned their old land line telephones, and use their smartphones for all their calls. And I know personally in our family we make way more long calls to distant friends and relatives as there are no huge charges for long distance or per minute. It's nothing to talk to an old friend or relative across the country for an hour or so and we hardly ever did that with our old land line phone. The smartphones may be nipping away at camera sales, but have almost eliminated the old hang on the wall telephone.
 
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