Weird dynamic range at low ISOs for the X2D in 14-bit mode

JimKasson

Community Leader
Forum Moderator
Messages
52,257
Solutions
52
Reaction score
59,047
Location
Monterey, CA, US
cadddb603d424cf99ad1e6d2a556bfca.jpg.png



Shutter speed was 1/800 second
Shutter speed was 1/800 second

Some takeaways:
  • EDR is never as large as 15 bits.
  • Both ISO 100 and ISO 64 are lower than you'd expect from the other ISOs.
  • ISO 100 is even lower than ISO 64
I will test at 16 bit raw precision.

--
 
cadddb603d424cf99ad1e6d2a556bfca.jpg.png

Shutter speed was 1/800 second
Shutter speed was 1/800 second

Some takeaways:
  • EDR is never as large as 15 bits.
  • Both ISO 100 and ISO 64 are lower than you'd expect from the other ISOs.
  • ISO 100 is even lower than ISO 64
I will test at 16 bit raw precision.
It looks to me like the conversion gain changes on the transition from ISO 100 to ISO 200. That would explain it.

--
 
There seems to be no benefit in shooting 16 instead of 14 bits. I briefly tested lifting shadows and did not notice any difference, but I hope you can do a proper test.

I am skeptical about the claim that 16-bits bring better colors (increased color depth benefits claimed by Hasselblad and Phase One).
 
cadddb603d424cf99ad1e6d2a556bfca.jpg.png

Shutter speed was 1/800 second
Shutter speed was 1/800 second

Some takeaways:
  • EDR is never as large as 15 bits.
  • Both ISO 100 and ISO 64 are lower than you'd expect from the other ISOs.
  • ISO 100 is even lower than ISO 64
I will test at 16 bit raw precision.
It looks to me like the conversion gain changes on the transition from ISO 100 to ISO 200. That would explain it.
What are your thoughts on applying the conversion gain change earlier?
 
cadddb603d424cf99ad1e6d2a556bfca.jpg.png

Shutter speed was 1/800 second
Shutter speed was 1/800 second

Some takeaways:
  • EDR is never as large as 15 bits.
  • Both ISO 100 and ISO 64 are lower than you'd expect from the other ISOs.
  • ISO 100 is even lower than ISO 64
I will test at 16 bit raw precision.
It looks to me like the conversion gain changes on the transition from ISO 100 to ISO 200. That would explain it.
What are your thoughts on applying the conversion gain change earlier?
It's a tradeoff. The higher the ISO when the change occurs, the more of a conversion gain boost you get. But it costs you DR in the higher ISOs before the change. For a medium format camera, where you need more light than with an FF camera to get the photon noise advantages, I think it makes sense to do it a lower ISO than you'd use for a FF camera.

--
 
5597896a37354db19c32ba8cc3890d2f.jpg.png

Not quite textbook performance, but not far off. I'll look at some Fourier transforms to figure out if there's any spatial filtering, but there aren't the jumps that you see with some cameras. I colored the lines to correspond to the raw channels.

--
https://blog.kasson.com
You know I love what you do and read everything you post here and your blog. But I got a he honest, the only thing I know of that sounds cooler than Fourier transforms is Flux capacitors. ;)
 
5597896a37354db19c32ba8cc3890d2f.jpg.png

Not quite textbook performance, but not far off. I'll look at some Fourier transforms to figure out if there's any spatial filtering, but there aren't the jumps that you see with some cameras. I colored the lines to correspond to the raw channels.
You know I love what you do and read everything you post here and your blog. But I got a he honest, the only thing I know of that sounds cooler than Fourier transforms is Flux capacitors. ;)
My grandfather used to do furrier transforms. He was a taxidermist.

[Rim shot]
 
5597896a37354db19c32ba8cc3890d2f.jpg.png

Not quite textbook performance, but not far off. I'll look at some Fourier transforms to figure out if there's any spatial filtering, but there aren't the jumps that you see with some cameras. I colored the lines to correspond to the raw channels.
You know I love what you do and read everything you post here and your blog. But I got a he honest, the only thing I know of that sounds cooler than Fourier transforms is Flux capacitors. ;)
My grandfather used to do furrier transforms. He was a taxidermist.

[Rim shot]
With FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms) Jim can check if Hasselblad is doing tricks, like spatial filtering, on raw files.

It seems that DR drops significantly with long exposures. That should have been self evident to me, but I have not seen it demonstrated that clearly.

Now, we have two cameras that have near identical sensors. Interesting to see if Hasselblad makes some things differently.

Jim used to do some pretty extensive experimental work, will be interesting what he finds.

One of the reasons I admire Jim's work is that he is both a bit of a scientist and artist.

Best regards

Erik

--
Erik Kaffehr
Website: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net
Magic uses to disappear in controlled experiments…
Gallery: http://echophoto.smugmug.com
Articles: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles
 
To understand the title you'll have to read the rest of the thread.

I performed Fourier transforms of all the dark-field images from 1.3 seconds to 64 seconds (I got bored after that and didn't test the really long shutter speeds).

There is a gradual increase in blue raw channel lowpass filtering as shutter speed increases.



8 seconds
8 seconds



32 seconds
32 seconds



64 Seconds
64 Seconds

I'd be surprised if this results from a change in smoothing in the camera. I'm guessing it comes from the distribution of the noise shifting towards longer tails as the shutter speed increases and dark current variability becomes more of a factor.

In general, this is exemplary performance on Hassy's part. I like it when the camera manufacturers don't mess with the spatial characteristics of the image (I'm looking at you, Sony).

--
 
5597896a37354db19c32ba8cc3890d2f.jpg.png

Not quite textbook performance, but not far off. I'll look at some Fourier transforms to figure out if there's any spatial filtering, but there aren't the jumps that you see with some cameras. I colored the lines to correspond to the raw channels.
You know I love what you do and read everything you post here and your blog. But I got a he honest, the only thing I know of that sounds cooler than Fourier transforms is Flux capacitors. ;)
My grandfather used to do furrier transforms. He was a taxidermist.

[Rim shot]
With FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms) Jim can check if Hasselblad is doing tricks, like spatial filtering, on raw files.

It seems that DR drops significantly with long exposures. That should have been self evident to me, but I have not seen it demonstrated that clearly.
Jim has published similar measurements for GFX100 and GFX100S.
Now, we have two cameras that have near identical sensors. Interesting to see if Hasselblad makes some things differently.

Jim used to do some pretty extensive experimental work, will be interesting what he finds.

One of the reasons I admire Jim's work is that he is both a bit of a scientist and artist.
I like how Jim's work here and on his blog separates the wheat from the chaff.
Best regards

Erik
 
Last edited:

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top