Motion Blur - What am I doing wrong?

Learn about the exposure triangle and how aperture, shutter speed and iso interact with each other.

Its not about how much a camera costs, without a basic knowledge the most expensive camera will still produce rotten photos.

this is not meant to be snarky, try this tutorial web site. it will give you some useful tips

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

especially if youare used to iphones which in some ways, through using ai etc, ease the process.

--
Brian

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

Its been said over and over, NO this is not normal behavior, you have changed a setting to get this result.

In what must be 40000 frames I have never had the camera set such silly setting.

You should learn how to use the tool, or use a smartphone if you dont want to.

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

Click to expand...

Instead of switching between A and M mode, you can simply mnually set the ISO in A mode. This way you control 1) aperture, 2) ISO, 3) exposure compensation and the camera will calculate 4) shutter speed for you. This may seem as a backwards approach, and this is what it is. However, this way there is no need to touch the PASM dial at all, and there is no need to think in which mode the camera is in, and what do the dials do when rotated. The operation is always exactly the same. As you set your ISO, you can simultaneously see how the shutter speed changes (assuming metering has been completed e.g. by half pressing the shutter), so in fact you can think changing ISO as directly adjusting the shutter speed.

Of course when you point the camera to a subject with different lightness, your shutter speed is no longer what you set it to. However, in this case you should probably adjust the exposure parameters anyway. In non-optimal conditions setting the exposure parameters (and ISO) is a matter of compromise, after all.

I am not saying this is the best way to operate the camera, but it works for me. There are many ways of doing the same thing, and it's largely a matter of preference or what people are used to.

kalisti said:

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

Its been said over and over, NO this is not normal behavior, you have changed a setting to get this result.

In what must be 40000 frames I have never had the camera set such silly setting.

You should learn how to use the tool, or use a smartphone if you dont want to.

Click to expand...

It's not that serious, take it easy on the poster. No need to rail on someone just trying to learn.

--------

OP, the advantage of the more expensive cameras is more features and more control. You get better results by knowing how things work and the dials allow you to quickly change settings so you don't miss the action.

If one goes to an expensive camera and is relying on automatic modes, you are actually wasting your money as in general you won't get better results with automatic compared to your phone or a cheaper option camera.

If you're going to rely on auto modes, you're better off with the entry level model, and the advantage over a phone for example will come from improved lenses such as bright primes, not from automatic modes.

OSPhoto said:

kalisti said:

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

Its been said over and over, NO this is not normal behavior, you have changed a setting to get this result.

In what must be 40000 frames I have never had the camera set such silly setting.

You should learn how to use the tool, or use a smartphone if you dont want to.

Click to expand...

It's not that serious, take it easy on the poster. No need to rail on someone just trying to learn.

Click to expand...

Just basic reading tbh.

Serious? Not serious at all just, just a strange takeaway after most of the thread said the opposite.

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

The camera chose 1/4 because you dialled 1/4 in the minimum shutter speed so the blurred pictures are essentially your doing

If you want to compare with a phone you need to shoot the camera in intelligent auto mode it is possible that the camera will take better decisions than you

If you had put your phone in aperture priority and minimum shutter 1/4 it would have produced a grainy image

You can't blame your camera for your bad decisions

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available.

Click to expand...

The camera has selected an ISO that was sufficient for the exposure. It does not recognize that the subjects are moving.

In this situation, instead of Aperture-priority, you should select Shutter-Priority and set a speed. This has been suggested already in multiple posts.

darioism said:

I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

Click to expand...

If you set a minimum of 1/100 for shutter speed, it should not have selected 1/4. Something was missed along the way. Whether 1/100 was sufficient is a different question when we get to that point.

darioism said:

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making,

Click to expand...

It does, if you let it decide 100%... iA mode (intelligent Auto), or better, Sports mode. Then the camera thinks differently. Here you put a restriction by controlling the Aperture and letting the camera think that a proper exposure for lighting was sufficient.

darioism said:

or let me define that decision curve,

Click to expand...

You can, and should, with Shutter-Priority. The semi-automatic modes of A and S are meant for specific purposes when you decide what needs control. Program model is more versatile if you know how 'program shift' works (that's Nikon speak, not sure what Panasonic calls it). Otherwise, there are special scene modes for Portraits, Landscapes, Sports, etc., to let the camera work for that purpose.

darioism said:

...

Click to expand...

You had done nothing wrong with camera choice. It's just that your expectations are different from what these modes are intended for. There are other modes for your scenario.

All the best.

phil from seattle said:

paolop23 said:

most people have written how to approach the issue, but lets analyse the scenes in detail

phil from seattle said:

Example 1: Living room lights on, afternoon sun coming through 3 windows. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 640.

Click to expand...

it sais f3.9 in the exif, so you had almost a stop to gain from the lens. With a shutterspeed of 1/4 of course it will blur kids, i'd say 1/100 wouldvebeen minimum here (via S mode). So this would mean 1/[email protected] and ISO6400 if my calculations are right.

Click to expand...

He has a variable aperture lens - at that FL, f/3.9 is the best it can do. F Stop was probably set to f/2.8 but zooming in raised the actual F Stop. I kind of doubt 1/100 would have been fast enough, little kids can move pretty fast. This is a scenario where flash is called for.

Click to expand...

didnt realize variable aperture lens thanks for pointign out.

I regularly shoot kids at family events with 1/60 to 1/100 to keep ISO down, keeper rate might be only 50% but it works for me. I avoid flash whenever i can.

kalisti said:

OSPhoto said:

kalisti said:

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available. I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

Its been said over and over, NO this is not normal behavior, you have changed a setting to get this result.

In what must be 40000 frames I have never had the camera set such silly setting.

You should learn how to use the tool, or use a smartphone if you dont want to.

Click to expand...

It's not that serious, take it easy on the poster. No need to rail on someone just trying to learn.

Click to expand...

Just basic reading tbh.

Serious? Not serious at all just, just a strange takeaway after most of the thread said the opposite.

Click to expand...

That's fair

From xkcd.com



--
js

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

darioism said:

I have a Panasonic Lumix G9 and love it so far, and typically use my Leica 12-60mm f/2.8. I shoot in Aperture priority, normally with the aperture wide open (2.8) and auto ISO (or intelligent ISO). However, I delete over half of my photos taken due to motion blur. I would not consider these shots to be in a "low light" scenario, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Examples below.

I'm annoyed that I can pull out my smartphone with a 2mm lens and take shots just fine in the same light, while my $1,700 camera can't pull it off.

It's clear that the shutter speed is too low, while I have room to breathe in ISO. I know that folks will recommend going full manual mode, but when moving between different lighting scenarios, I can't be futzing with dials, or I'll miss a shot. I'd like if I can rely on a fancy camera to make some decisions. I'd love it if I could modify the decision curve the camera uses, so it would lean towards higher ISO instead of slower shutter speed, but I don't see any settings like this.

How can I take better shots? Might I have some setting wrong on the camera? Thanks in advance.


Example 1: Living room lights on, afternoon sun coming through 3 windows. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 640.


Example 2: Night, but with bright LED lights all around. I'd expect a BIT of motion blur, but not this bad. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 400, which is definitely not what I would have went with.

Click to expand...

No need to go full manual. For situations like this, I'd normally switch to S and dial in whatever I can get away with based on a few experimental shots - typically 1/30 to 1/200.

Click to expand...

The problem with this is that the appropriate shutter speed changes as you zoom. Minimum Shutter with Auto ISO takes care of this.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this simply replace one fixed speed (minimum in the menu) with another? Or is the G9 smart enough to adjust the minimum with focal length?

With my mix of shooting, half the time I'm shooting static subjects where the 1/4s is useful, and half the time it's motion, so a menu setting is kind of cumbersome. I prefer the directness of S mode.

If you're routinely shooting moving subjects, I can see how the minimum makes a lot of sense.

TomFid said:

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

darioism said:

I have a Panasonic Lumix G9 and love it so far, and typically use my Leica 12-60mm f/2.8. I shoot in Aperture priority, normally with the aperture wide open (2.8) and auto ISO (or intelligent ISO). However, I delete over half of my photos taken due to motion blur. I would not consider these shots to be in a "low light" scenario, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Examples below.

I'm annoyed that I can pull out my smartphone with a 2mm lens and take shots just fine in the same light, while my $1,700 camera can't pull it off.

It's clear that the shutter speed is too low, while I have room to breathe in ISO. I know that folks will recommend going full manual mode, but when moving between different lighting scenarios, I can't be futzing with dials, or I'll miss a shot. I'd like if I can rely on a fancy camera to make some decisions. I'd love it if I could modify the decision curve the camera uses, so it would lean towards higher ISO instead of slower shutter speed, but I don't see any settings like this.

How can I take better shots? Might I have some setting wrong on the camera? Thanks in advance.


Example 1: Living room lights on, afternoon sun coming through 3 windows. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 640.


Example 2: Night, but with bright LED lights all around. I'd expect a BIT of motion blur, but not this bad. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 400, which is definitely not what I would have went with.

Click to expand...

No need to go full manual. For situations like this, I'd normally switch to S and dial in whatever I can get away with based on a few experimental shots - typically 1/30 to 1/200.

Click to expand...

The problem with this is that the appropriate shutter speed changes as you zoom. Minimum Shutter with Auto ISO takes care of this.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this simply replace one fixed speed (minimum in the menu) with another? Or is the G9 smart enough to adjust the minimum with focal length?

Click to expand...

I don't have a G9, but my GX9 sets shutter to 1/(focal length), so the shutter speed changes as I zoom. It might be 1/25 at the wide end and 1/80 at the long end of my 12-35/2.8 zoom. That's the whole beauty of Min. Shutter With Auto ISO. With primes, I just set shutter manually because the shutter speed required to freeze motion doesn't change (much). Sony's implementation is even better, as I can set 1/FL for stationary subjects and 1/(2xFL) or 1/(4xFL) for slow- or fast-moving subjects. When I'm doing event work, I generally just leave it at 1/(2xFL). Yeah, this means that sometimes my ISO is higher than required, but DxO's DeepPRIME cleans up noise to nicely that this isn't an issue for me. I haven't felt a need to wrestle back control over shutter speed, but if I did I'd just create a custom bank of settings that leaves Min. Shutter off. Those custom banks are really useful for quickly adapting to very different shooting requirements. I have one set up specifically for using flash.

TomFid said:

With my mix of shooting, half the time I'm shooting static subjects where the 1/4s is useful, and half the time it's motion, so a menu setting is kind of cumbersome. I prefer the directness of S mode.

Click to expand...

Sure, but if you're using a zoom, you're going to be constantly changing the shutter speed. Also, you could set a custom bank of settings for still subjects and another for moving subjects.

TomFid said:

If you're routinely shooting moving subjects, I can see how the minimum makes a lot of sense.

Click to expand...

Or even if you're shooting static subjects but are zooming over a wide range and want to avoid camera shake. I do like to control aperture manually for DoF, and Av mode with Min. Shutter and Auto ISO makes this easy for me.

--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos

kalisti said:

darioism said:

Thanks all! Yes, I understand that 1/4 is far too slow, which is why I raised the question of why the camera would choose it, when there is plenty of ISO room available.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

This is a subject-dependent perspective. Shooting twilight landscapes, or even static wildlife in the deep forest, I always prefer lower ISO and slower shutter. I'd consider 1/4s totally reasonable for wide to normal lenses in such conditions.

kalisti said:

kalisti said:

I've set my minimum shutter speed to 1/100 and will play around with using M mode. I've set my C1 custom setting to use A mode, 1/100 minimum SS, 12800 max ISO, and then I can flip the dial to M for full customization when time permits.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Seems like a good solution, but why stick with A mode instead of S, which gets you direct shutter control and max aperture as needed?

kalisti said:

kalisti said:

I'm just hesitant because I don't want to miss a shot while futzing with dials. I was hoping my fancy camera would do a better job at decision making, or let me define that decision curve, but it sounds like this is typical behavior for this class of camera. I don't want to be the guy with the flash - especially at an event where there is a paid photographer - I find photos are best when candid, authentic smiles, etc. I'll just need to get faster about choosing settings. Related: the G9 has absolutely fantastic positioning of the dials and buttons you use the most. Well done there, Panasonic.

I look forward to the day that manufacturers incorporate some of the software (with user preferences) that smartphones use now, into the better hardware of a mirrorless camera.

Thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

Its been said over and over, NO this is not normal behavior, you have changed a setting to get this result.

In what must be 40000 frames I have never had the camera set such silly setting.

You should learn how to use the tool, or use a smartphone if you dont want to.

Click to expand...

Again, whether or not the OP changed anything, with effective stabilization 1/4s is a totally reasonable, even optimal, setting for many subjects.

What we really need is an intelligent camera setting that monitors camera shake and movement in the frame to guess whether the situation is static or dynamic, and make shutter speed choices accordingly. This seems technically feasible, but I'm not aware of any maker that's done it.

paolop23 said:

I regularly shoot kids at family events with 1/60 to 1/100 to keep ISO down, keeper rate might be only 50% but it works for me. I avoid flash whenever i can.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't use flash at all. Hate dealing with it.



One thing I learned from wildlife photographers - sharpness first. If the subject isn't sharp, no one goes "but the picture isn't noisy". I wouldn't be afraid of higher ISO. I think the general tendency to say "avoid high ISO" is overblown. Even 3200 will produce reasonable results with just about any camera sold in the last 10 years. And for social media posts, you can go even higher. If you care about it, denoising algorithms can work wonders on even really noisy photos.

paolop23 said:

I regularly shoot kids at family events with 1/60 to 1/100 to keep ISO down, keeper rate might be only 50% but it works for me. I avoid flash whenever i can.

Click to expand...

I too avoid flash. It can be lovely (though I find rarely so with a small on-camera unit), but it's simply not an option for shooting performances.

One strategy I use for getting away with slow shutter and low ISO is to shoot bursts, aiming around those magic moments where motion pauses at an extreme. Even if the keeper rate is very low, quantity and luck make up for it. I don't like the resulting culling from spray & pray, but it works.

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

darioism said:

I have a Panasonic Lumix G9 and love it so far, and typically use my Leica 12-60mm f/2.8. I shoot in Aperture priority, normally with the aperture wide open (2.8) and auto ISO (or intelligent ISO). However, I delete over half of my photos taken due to motion blur. I would not consider these shots to be in a "low light" scenario, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Examples below.

I'm annoyed that I can pull out my smartphone with a 2mm lens and take shots just fine in the same light, while my $1,700 camera can't pull it off.

It's clear that the shutter speed is too low, while I have room to breathe in ISO. I know that folks will recommend going full manual mode, but when moving between different lighting scenarios, I can't be futzing with dials, or I'll miss a shot. I'd like if I can rely on a fancy camera to make some decisions. I'd love it if I could modify the decision curve the camera uses, so it would lean towards higher ISO instead of slower shutter speed, but I don't see any settings like this.

How can I take better shots? Might I have some setting wrong on the camera? Thanks in advance.


Example 1: Living room lights on, afternoon sun coming through 3 windows. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 640.


Example 2: Night, but with bright LED lights all around. I'd expect a BIT of motion blur, but not this bad. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 400, which is definitely not what I would have went with.

Click to expand...

No need to go full manual. For situations like this, I'd normally switch to S and dial in whatever I can get away with based on a few experimental shots - typically 1/30 to 1/200.

Click to expand...

The problem with this is that the appropriate shutter speed changes as you zoom. Minimum Shutter with Auto ISO takes care of this.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this simply replace one fixed speed (minimum in the menu) with another? Or is the G9 smart enough to adjust the minimum with focal length?

Click to expand...

I don't have a G9, but my GX9 sets shutter to 1/(focal length), so the shutter speed changes as I zoom. It might be 1/25 at the wide end and 1/80 at the long end of my 12-35/2.8 zoom. That's the whole beauty of Min. Shutter With Auto ISO. With primes, I just set shutter manually because the shutter speed required to freeze motion doesn't change (much). Sony's implementation is even better, as I can set 1/FL for stationary subjects and 1/(2xFL) or 1/(4xFL) for slow- or fast-moving subjects. When I'm doing event work, I generally just leave it at 1/(2xFL). Yeah, this means that sometimes my ISO is higher than required, but DxO's DeepPRIME cleans up noise to nicely that this isn't an issue for me. I haven't felt a need to wrestle back control over shutter speed, but if I did I'd just create a custom bank of settings that leaves Min. Shutter off. Those custom banks are really useful for quickly adapting to very different shooting requirements. I have one set up specifically for using flash.

Click to expand...

Intelligent ISO should help too.

'The camera automatically sets the optimum ISO sensitivity and shutter speed to suit the subject and brightness of the scene to minimise the jitter of the subject.

The shutter speed is not fixed when the shutter button is pressed halfway. It is continuously changing to match the movement of the subject until the shutter button is pressed fully.'

It doesnt show you your ISO before the shot so I dont use it, but in theory should only help in this situation.

Jacques Cornell said:

Jacques Cornell said:

With my mix of shooting, half the time I'm shooting static subjects where the 1/4s is useful, and half the time it's motion, so a menu setting is kind of cumbersome. I prefer the directness of S mode.

Click to expand...

Sure, but if you're using a zoom, you're going to be constantly changing the shutter speed. Also, you could set a custom bank of settings for still subjects and another for moving subjects.

Jacques Cornell said:

If you're routinely shooting moving subjects, I can see how the minimum makes a lot of sense.

Click to expand...

Or even if you're shooting static subjects but are zooming over a wide range and want to avoid camera shake. I do like to control aperture manually for DoF, and Av mode with Min. Shutter and Auto ISO makes this easy for me.

Click to expand...

kalisti said:

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

darioism said:

I have a Panasonic Lumix G9 and love it so far, and typically use my Leica 12-60mm f/2.8. I shoot in Aperture priority, normally with the aperture wide open (2.8) and auto ISO (or intelligent ISO). However, I delete over half of my photos taken due to motion blur. I would not consider these shots to be in a "low light" scenario, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Examples below.

I'm annoyed that I can pull out my smartphone with a 2mm lens and take shots just fine in the same light, while my $1,700 camera can't pull it off.

It's clear that the shutter speed is too low, while I have room to breathe in ISO. I know that folks will recommend going full manual mode, but when moving between different lighting scenarios, I can't be futzing with dials, or I'll miss a shot. I'd like if I can rely on a fancy camera to make some decisions. I'd love it if I could modify the decision curve the camera uses, so it would lean towards higher ISO instead of slower shutter speed, but I don't see any settings like this.

How can I take better shots? Might I have some setting wrong on the camera? Thanks in advance.


Example 1: Living room lights on, afternoon sun coming through 3 windows. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 640.


Example 2: Night, but with bright LED lights all around. I'd expect a BIT of motion blur, but not this bad. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 400, which is definitely not what I would have went with.

Click to expand...

No need to go full manual. For situations like this, I'd normally switch to S and dial in whatever I can get away with based on a few experimental shots - typically 1/30 to 1/200.

Click to expand...

The problem with this is that the appropriate shutter speed changes as you zoom. Minimum Shutter with Auto ISO takes care of this.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this simply replace one fixed speed (minimum in the menu) with another? Or is the G9 smart enough to adjust the minimum with focal length?

Click to expand...

I don't have a G9, but my GX9 sets shutter to 1/(focal length), so the shutter speed changes as I zoom. It might be 1/25 at the wide end and 1/80 at the long end of my 12-35/2.8 zoom. That's the whole beauty of Min. Shutter With Auto ISO. With primes, I just set shutter manually because the shutter speed required to freeze motion doesn't change (much). Sony's implementation is even better, as I can set 1/FL for stationary subjects and 1/(2xFL) or 1/(4xFL) for slow- or fast-moving subjects. When I'm doing event work, I generally just leave it at 1/(2xFL). Yeah, this means that sometimes my ISO is higher than required, but DxO's DeepPRIME cleans up noise to nicely that this isn't an issue for me. I haven't felt a need to wrestle back control over shutter speed, but if I did I'd just create a custom bank of settings that leaves Min. Shutter off. Those custom banks are really useful for quickly adapting to very different shooting requirements. I have one set up specifically for using flash.

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Intelligent ISO should help too.

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That's what Auto ISO is. The Min. Shutter With Auto ISO feature works in conjunction with Auto ISO to set the shutter speed above the designated minimum. It is useful when shooting in Av or P modes, particularly with zooms.

kalisti said:

'The camera automatically sets the optimum ISO sensitivity and shutter speed to suit the subject and brightness of the scene to minimise the jitter of the subject.

The shutter speed is not fixed when the shutter button is pressed halfway. It is continuously changing to match the movement of the subject until the shutter button is pressed fully.'

It doesnt show you your ISO before the shot so I dont use it, but in theory should only help in this situation.

kalisti said:

kalisti said:

With my mix of shooting, half the time I'm shooting static subjects where the 1/4s is useful, and half the time it's motion, so a menu setting is kind of cumbersome. I prefer the directness of S mode.

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Sure, but if you're using a zoom, you're going to be constantly changing the shutter speed. Also, you could set a custom bank of settings for still subjects and another for moving subjects.

kalisti said:

If you're routinely shooting moving subjects, I can see how the minimum makes a lot of sense.

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Or even if you're shooting static subjects but are zooming over a wide range and want to avoid camera shake. I do like to control aperture manually for DoF, and Av mode with Min. Shutter and Auto ISO makes this easy for me.

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--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos

Jacques Cornell said:

kalisti said:

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

Jacques Cornell said:

TomFid said:

darioism said:

I have a Panasonic Lumix G9 and love it so far, and typically use my Leica 12-60mm f/2.8. I shoot in Aperture priority, normally with the aperture wide open (2.8) and auto ISO (or intelligent ISO). However, I delete over half of my photos taken due to motion blur. I would not consider these shots to be in a "low light" scenario, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Examples below.

I'm annoyed that I can pull out my smartphone with a 2mm lens and take shots just fine in the same light, while my $1,700 camera can't pull it off.

It's clear that the shutter speed is too low, while I have room to breathe in ISO. I know that folks will recommend going full manual mode, but when moving between different lighting scenarios, I can't be futzing with dials, or I'll miss a shot. I'd like if I can rely on a fancy camera to make some decisions. I'd love it if I could modify the decision curve the camera uses, so it would lean towards higher ISO instead of slower shutter speed, but I don't see any settings like this.

How can I take better shots? Might I have some setting wrong on the camera? Thanks in advance.


Example 1: Living room lights on, afternoon sun coming through 3 windows. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 640.


Example 2: Night, but with bright LED lights all around. I'd expect a BIT of motion blur, but not this bad. f/2.8, camera chose 1/4 and ISO 400, which is definitely not what I would have went with.

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No need to go full manual. For situations like this, I'd normally switch to S and dial in whatever I can get away with based on a few experimental shots - typically 1/30 to 1/200.

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The problem with this is that the appropriate shutter speed changes as you zoom. Minimum Shutter with Auto ISO takes care of this.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this simply replace one fixed speed (minimum in the menu) with another? Or is the G9 smart enough to adjust the minimum with focal length?

Click to expand...

I don't have a G9, but my GX9 sets shutter to 1/(focal length), so the shutter speed changes as I zoom. It might be 1/25 at the wide end and 1/80 at the long end of my 12-35/2.8 zoom. That's the whole beauty of Min. Shutter With Auto ISO. With primes, I just set shutter manually because the shutter speed required to freeze motion doesn't change (much). Sony's implementation is even better, as I can set 1/FL for stationary subjects and 1/(2xFL) or 1/(4xFL) for slow- or fast-moving subjects. When I'm doing event work, I generally just leave it at 1/(2xFL). Yeah, this means that sometimes my ISO is higher than required, but DxO's DeepPRIME cleans up noise to nicely that this isn't an issue for me. I haven't felt a need to wrestle back control over shutter speed, but if I did I'd just create a custom bank of settings that leaves Min. Shutter off. Those custom banks are really useful for quickly adapting to very different shooting requirements. I have one set up specifically for using flash.

Click to expand...

Intelligent ISO should help too.

Click to expand...

That's what Auto ISO is. The Min. Shutter With Auto ISO feature works in conjunction with Auto ISO to set the shutter speed above the designated minimum. It is useful when shooting in Av or P modes, particularly with zooms.

Click to expand...

It doesnt look for movement in the frame though afaik, iISO does, together they should have everything covered, ie iISO and having a min shutter speed set.

iISO is just meant to be an improved auto ISO, a bit smarter, maybe XD

Jacques Cornell said:

Jacques Cornell said:

'The camera automatically sets the optimum ISO sensitivity and shutter speed to suit the subject and brightness of the scene to minimise the jitter of the subject.

The shutter speed is not fixed when the shutter button is pressed halfway. It is continuously changing to match the movement of the subject until the shutter button is pressed fully.'

It doesnt show you your ISO before the shot so I dont use it, but in theory should only help in this situation.

Jacques Cornell said:

Jacques Cornell said:

With my mix of shooting, half the time I'm shooting static subjects where the 1/4s is useful, and half the time it's motion, so a menu setting is kind of cumbersome. I prefer the directness of S mode.

Click to expand...

Sure, but if you're using a zoom, you're going to be constantly changing the shutter speed. Also, you could set a custom bank of settings for still subjects and another for moving subjects.

Jacques Cornell said:

If you're routinely shooting moving subjects, I can see how the minimum makes a lot of sense.

Click to expand...

Or even if you're shooting static subjects but are zooming over a wide range and want to avoid camera shake. I do like to control aperture manually for DoF, and Av mode with Min. Shutter and Auto ISO makes this easy for me.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...