To Fuji ......

Given how many people I see not using a neck strap at all, I think it is safe to say that those using the OEM strap are not the overwhelming majority.
Quite possible. And, this is probably the first time I’ve actually decided to use the OEM strap. When I sold my X-H1 a couple of weeks ago, I went ahead and included my old strap with the camera, so I needed to get a new one anyway. Normally, I just ignore whatever Fuji packages with their cameras, but in this case, I though they might have upped their game just a bit. I will probably continue using the strap for a while, and if it doesn’t end up being a comfortable as I’d like, I’m more than happy to relegate it to the “strap pile” and pick up something better. For now at least… so far, so good.
IMHO, there’s something to be said for offering a complete kit, evening including some parts that not everyone might choose to use.
How do you define a "complete kit"? I remember when manufacturers used to include memory cards, RCA video cables, and multiple software CD's with all of their cameras.
I think what they provided with the X-H2s qualifies as complete enough, at least for my needs. I don’t ever recall memory cards being a part of the kit, but you may well harken back a bit further than I do (or more likely, you just have a better memory :-) ).
The circa 2000 Canon S100 was one of my first digital cameras, and it included an 8MB compact flash card in the box. The card is even listed under "storage included" on the DPRevies spece table:

 
Thx If you look to patona charger (EU) I am sure it costs less than the ridiculous bulky USBc kit

Finally I could in France the 404 pages english manual but no french edition Fuji shame on you !!!
 
Given how many people I see not using a neck strap at all, I think it is safe to say that those using the OEM strap are not the overwhelming majority.
Quite possible. And, this is probably the first time I’ve actually decided to use the OEM strap. When I sold my X-H1 a couple of weeks ago, I went ahead and included my old strap with the camera, so I needed to get a new one anyway. Normally, I just ignore whatever Fuji packages with their cameras, but in this case, I though they might have upped their game just a bit. I will probably continue using the strap for a while, and if it doesn’t end up being a comfortable as I’d like, I’m more than happy to relegate it to the “strap pile” and pick up something better. For now at least… so far, so good.
IMHO, there’s something to be said for offering a complete kit, evening including some parts that not everyone might choose to use.
How do you define a "complete kit"? I remember when manufacturers used to include memory cards, RCA video cables, and multiple software CD's with all of their cameras.
I think what they provided with the X-H2s qualifies as complete enough, at least for my needs. I don’t ever recall memory cards being a part of the kit, but you may well harken back a bit further than I do (or more likely, you just have a better memory :-) ).
The circa 2000 Canon S100 was one of my first digital cameras, and it included an 8MB compact flash card in the box. The card is even listed under "storage included" on the DPRevies spece table:

https://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_ixus/specifications
In 2003 [when I bought my first dslr, a 10D] Canon still suggested using Canon branded cards, which were even more expensive than the sandisk 512MB I ended up with. furious forum discussions. Those were the days
 
I think being able to download the manual and view it online is enough. I always did that anyway. As far as including a separate battery charger I totally agree! I can't believe there are so many here that think charging your battery in camera is sufficient.
No one is suggesting that external chargers are pointless and that USB charging is the answer for everyone.
Maybe they don't shoot often? I would be lost without my double battery charger. While I am out shooting my spare batteries are charging for later!!!! Maybe I shoot too much? :-)
You are actually a perfect example on why including an external charger in the box might be generating unnecessary E-waste. You are using a dual battery charger, which is something that was never included with a Fuji camera and required a separate purchase.

Some people will have no problem relying on USB charging. Others, like yourself, would be better served by an aftermarket multi-bay charger. Some might prefer a charger that plugs into an AC outlet while others might prefer a charger that is USB C powered so they can utilize power banks for remote charging. Why include a slow, single-slot charger in the box if it is not the best solution for a significant number of your customers?
Because the batteries don't last that long. I do a lot of traveling. I wouldn't get much work done if I had to rely on in camera battery charging.
 
I have always used an external charger for camera batteries. It used to be the only way for most cameras. Then people wanted internal charging but I never adopted that. There certainly was/is a constituency for internal charging, though.

Having said that, some people have mentioned a risk to charging the battery in camera. I wonder where that is substantiated, any more than charging laptops, phones, tablets, etc. that have no removable batteries.

For my two cameras, I have two small USB external chargers, the Nitecore FX1 for the Fuji NP-W126s batteries and the FX3 for the Fuji NP-W235 batteries. They have informative displays, can charge two batteries simultaneously, and seem to do the job well. The cameras seem satisfied.
 
I have always used an external charger for camera batteries. It used to be the only way for most cameras.
Same here
For my two cameras, I have two small USB external chargers, the Nitecore FX1 for the Fuji NP-W126s batteries and the FX3 for the Fuji NP-W235 batteries. They have informative displays, can charge two batteries simultaneously, and seem to do the job well. The cameras seem satisfied.
I have been using patona chargers (EU) for years without any problem

The last one for NPw325 is light andsmall works perfectly and probably costs less money to produce than the ridiculous heavy USBc kit that goes now with the cameras XH2.... and also avoid some enrgy garbage...
 
Given how many people I see not using a neck strap at all, I think it is safe to say that those using the OEM strap are not the overwhelming majority.
Quite possible. And, this is probably the first time I’ve actually decided to use the OEM strap. When I sold my X-H1 a couple of weeks ago, I went ahead and included my old strap with the camera, so I needed to get a new one anyway. Normally, I just ignore whatever Fuji packages with their cameras, but in this case, I though they might have upped their game just a bit. I will probably continue using the strap for a while, and if it doesn’t end up being a comfortable as I’d like, I’m more than happy to relegate it to the “strap pile” and pick up something better. For now at least… so far, so good.
IMHO, there’s something to be said for offering a complete kit, evening including some parts that not everyone might choose to use.
How do you define a "complete kit"? I remember when manufacturers used to include memory cards, RCA video cables, and multiple software CD's with all of their cameras.
I think what they provided with the X-H2s qualifies as complete enough, at least for my needs. I don’t ever recall memory cards being a part of the kit, but you may well harken back a bit further than I do (or more likely, you just have a better memory :-) ).
The circa 2000 Canon S100 was one of my first digital cameras, and it included an 8MB compact flash card in the box. The card is even listed under "storage included" on the DPRevies spece table:

https://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_ixus/specifications
Yes, my first Canon Digital compact came with a 4MB Compact flash card as well.

The logical conclusion that some seem to be making is that the only accessory that should be supplied with a camera is perhaps a body cap? No battery, No charger, No strap etc, etc.
 
More than happy for my camera to ship without a charger, cable, strap or paper manual.
If it keeps the cost down and means millions of items don't get needlessly created for landfill every year, great.

Those that truly need them can buy them.
 
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Comprehensive physical manuals shipping with products is a thing from two decades ago.

Electronics not shipping with chargers is a newer trend to reduce electronics garbage. Everything charges with USB now so you seriously don't need a separate charger for each device. If you honestly don't have a USB charger in 2022, it's time to buy one. And that *one* will charge all your devices.
Not shipping a charger and a manual with electronics is a way of reducing cost.
 
Given how many people here seem to prefer charging in-camera, or who are at least content with charging g in-camera instead of with a separate charger, removing the charger from the box was the right decision. The same goes for the printed manual. These are truly optional accessories.

The surprising cost of the manual and the charger is in logistics. If they include a charger then they need separate SKUs (product bundles) for each market with a distinct wall plug design. And the box has to be large enough to accommodate the most horrendously giant wall plug designs.

Similarly the printed manual. But, in addition, they have to trade off page count vs. helpfulness, and limit languages supported. We should get a better manual when it is online-only. (In practice, I frequently am learning from YouTube videos instead of the printed manual.) Note that the printed manual also has a huge delaying effect on launching the product, and it also has a negative pressure on adding or improving features with firmware updates.

That said, every store selling these cameras should be offering to bundle a charger as part of the initial sale, whether it is an online store or brick-and-mortar. And every brick-and-mortar store should have a training benefit with a $2,000+ camera—either formal or informal, free or paid.
My understanding is charging the battery in the camera via usb is not the safest option.
 
Not only are online PDF manuals better for the environment, but they are far easier to use too.

Eliminating the external charger also benefits the environment. Fuji has settled on just two battery sizes. If you are running several batteries and need an external charger, odds are you already have one from your previous Fuji body. If you are not burning through multiple batteries in a day, USB internal charging can easily keep up.

Fuji should go even further and eliminate more from the package. Why are shoulder straps still shipped with their cameras? Why is there a silly plastic cover for the hot shoe? Who doesn't already own a fistful of USB C cables?

I would love it if the only thing in the box was the camera, a battery, a body cap for the camera, and a cap for the battery. No papers, no cables, no straps, no extra covers or caps.
And all of your comments are understandably from the perspective of an existing Fujifilm owner. So, how about someone who buys the product as a user new to Fujifilm cameras? Should they have to buy a shoulder strap if they don’t already own one (or perhaps sold it along with their previous camera)?
How many people even use a shoulder strap? I see a lot of people with wrist straps, PD capture clips, or no strap at all.
Your comments make total sense from the perspective of an existing Fujifilm owner, and make far less sense if you happen to be new to the brand. Maybe I’m just missing something, but I think perhaps you might want to consider the fact that not everyone buying this product is doing so as an upgrade or replacement of another Fujifilm camera. If I sell an existing camera, it might well be sold with the strap that came with the camera. Should I have to then buy a separate strap along with the new camera if one isn’t included? Might be OK for you… I’d be less thrilled about it.

To summarize: while some of this might be redundant for existing users, new users may find straps, chargers, etc. to be useful. It might help to consider their perspective as well.
I am not discounting new users. It is not just about redundancy for existing users, but new users also don't necessarily need these items. For example, some people prefer a high speed multi-bay charger instead of the slow single slot unit Fuji included in the past. People even prefer different lengths of USB cables.

I don't know the exact current numbers, but a few years ago, Fuji sold 600,000 cameras. At that quantity, just the tiny little BC-W126 charger would fill three 20 foot shipping containers. And that is without any AC plug or packaging. Your beloved shoulder straps would fill two entire containers. The printed manuals that came with my X-T3 would fill nine containers. That is 14 shipping containers filled with just chargers, neck straps, and manuals, and that is only for one year's worth of sales. These little things add up in a big way. Even the silly little hot shoe cover adds up to over 650 pounds of ABS plastic per year.

If 90% of people buying a new camera needed these accessories, then it would make sense to include them in the package. I highly doubt we are anywhere near that percentage for any of theses accessories.
Yes, but a lot of people are selling cameras with many of those items included in the kit. And, therefore, they might want to have something similar in whatever new kit they buy. I’d rather have additional pieces that I might not really need (but can include in the kit when I eventually might sell/upgrade) than to have to scrounge for them if I didn’t happen to have them available. It’s all about the notion of selling a complete package rather than assuming that a buyer will have one or more of those items already.
So, we should continue to pollute the planet with potentially unneeded accessories simply because that is how we have always done it? Including the extra bits in the kit solely for resale purposes just delays the inevitable trip to the landfill. Including an external charger with a camera made sense when that was the only way to charge the battery.
Meanwhile, we can guess until the cows come home as to how many buyers want/need those items vs. those that don’t. I’m not so sure that this forum is exactly representative of the buying public when it comes to their needs and wants with respect to these sorts of items. We might simply have to agree to disagree that erring on the side of providing these items at least makes for a complete package and gives the user the option of using or storing those items. In my case, for example, I actually liked the shoulder strap that came with my X-H2s better than the one I owned, and therefore decided to use it. Even though I already had a similar item, I found the newer item to be a better design and opted to keep it.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose……
I am glad you like your X-H2S strap. In well over a decade, I have never even removed a neck strap from the package. I am not suggesting that none of these accessories should exist. In terms of the environment, it just makes more sense for these accessories to be a separate purchase for those that actually need them.
In the past I never used the straps but Fujis straps are perfect. They are small for the X-Pro and wide for the X-H bodies. Most of all they are just black with Fuji discretely embossed in the strap.

And I also use the chargers. And because I have three Fuji cameras I have three chargers which are nice on busy days as I can charge all batteries at once.

I care about the environment and I agree that big manuals should be a thing of the past but chargers and straps should be in the box.
 
Comprehensive physical manuals shipping with products is a thing from two decades ago.

Electronics not shipping with chargers is a newer trend to reduce electronics garbage. Everything charges with USB now so you seriously don't need a separate charger for each device. If you honestly don't have a USB charger in 2022, it's time to buy one. And that *one* will charge all your devices.
Not shipping a charger and a manual with electronics is a way of reducing cost.
And the problem with that would be?

I have no use for either of those items as I already have my own external chargers and also much prefer PDF manuals.

Both items have financial and environmental costs, and for many people they are unnecessary waste.
 
Not only are online PDF manuals better for the environment, but they are far easier to use too.

Eliminating the external charger also benefits the environment. Fuji has settled on just two battery sizes. If you are running several batteries and need an external charger, odds are you already have one from your previous Fuji body. If you are not burning through multiple batteries in a day, USB internal charging can easily keep up.

Fuji should go even further and eliminate more from the package. Why are shoulder straps still shipped with their cameras? Why is there a silly plastic cover for the hot shoe? Who doesn't already own a fistful of USB C cables?

I would love it if the only thing in the box was the camera, a battery, a body cap for the camera, and a cap for the battery. No papers, no cables, no straps, no extra covers or caps.
And all of your comments are understandably from the perspective of an existing Fujifilm owner. So, how about someone who buys the product as a user new to Fujifilm cameras? Should they have to buy a shoulder strap if they don’t already own one (or perhaps sold it along with their previous camera)?
How many people even use a shoulder strap? I see a lot of people with wrist straps, PD capture clips, or no strap at all.
Your comments make total sense from the perspective of an existing Fujifilm owner, and make far less sense if you happen to be new to the brand. Maybe I’m just missing something, but I think perhaps you might want to consider the fact that not everyone buying this product is doing so as an upgrade or replacement of another Fujifilm camera. If I sell an existing camera, it might well be sold with the strap that came with the camera. Should I have to then buy a separate strap along with the new camera if one isn’t included? Might be OK for you… I’d be less thrilled about it.

To summarize: while some of this might be redundant for existing users, new users may find straps, chargers, etc. to be useful. It might help to consider their perspective as well.
I am not discounting new users. It is not just about redundancy for existing users, but new users also don't necessarily need these items. For example, some people prefer a high speed multi-bay charger instead of the slow single slot unit Fuji included in the past. People even prefer different lengths of USB cables.

I don't know the exact current numbers, but a few years ago, Fuji sold 600,000 cameras. At that quantity, just the tiny little BC-W126 charger would fill three 20 foot shipping containers. And that is without any AC plug or packaging. Your beloved shoulder straps would fill two entire containers. The printed manuals that came with my X-T3 would fill nine containers. That is 14 shipping containers filled with just chargers, neck straps, and manuals, and that is only for one year's worth of sales. These little things add up in a big way. Even the silly little hot shoe cover adds up to over 650 pounds of ABS plastic per year.

If 90% of people buying a new camera needed these accessories, then it would make sense to include them in the package. I highly doubt we are anywhere near that percentage for any of theses accessories.
Yes, but a lot of people are selling cameras with many of those items included in the kit. And, therefore, they might want to have something similar in whatever new kit they buy. I’d rather have additional pieces that I might not really need (but can include in the kit when I eventually might sell/upgrade) than to have to scrounge for them if I didn’t happen to have them available. It’s all about the notion of selling a complete package rather than assuming that a buyer will have one or more of those items already.
So, we should continue to pollute the planet with potentially unneeded accessories simply because that is how we have always done it? Including the extra bits in the kit solely for resale purposes just delays the inevitable trip to the landfill. Including an external charger with a camera made sense when that was the only way to charge the battery.
Meanwhile, we can guess until the cows come home as to how many buyers want/need those items vs. those that don’t. I’m not so sure that this forum is exactly representative of the buying public when it comes to their needs and wants with respect to these sorts of items. We might simply have to agree to disagree that erring on the side of providing these items at least makes for a complete package and gives the user the option of using or storing those items. In my case, for example, I actually liked the shoulder strap that came with my X-H2s better than the one I owned, and therefore decided to use it. Even though I already had a similar item, I found the newer item to be a better design and opted to keep it.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose……
I am glad you like your X-H2S strap. In well over a decade, I have never even removed a neck strap from the package. I am not suggesting that none of these accessories should exist. In terms of the environment, it just makes more sense for these accessories to be a separate purchase for those that actually need them.
In the past I never used the straps but Fujis straps are perfect. They are small for the X-Pro and wide for the X-H bodies. Most of all they are just black with Fuji discretely embossed in the strap.

And I also use the chargers. And because I have three Fuji cameras I have three chargers which are nice on busy days as I can charge all batteries at once.

I care about the environment and I agree that big manuals should be a thing of the past but chargers and straps should be in the box.
The problem is we all use our cameras differently. What is a valuable "freebie" for you is needless waste for me. The neck strap and charger for my X-T3 are still sitting sealed in the box. I never use neck straps and I already had enough external chargers from prior bodies. I am not suggesting these items should not exist, but it might make more sense for them to be a separate purchase.
 
Comprehensive physical manuals shipping with products is a thing from two decades ago.

Electronics not shipping with chargers is a newer trend to reduce electronics garbage. Everything charges with USB now so you seriously don't need a separate charger for each device. If you honestly don't have a USB charger in 2022, it's time to buy one. And that *one* will charge all your devices.
Not shipping a charger and a manual with electronics is a way of reducing cost.
And the problem with that would be?

I have no use for either of those items as I already have my own external chargers and also much prefer PDF manuals.

Both items have financial and environmental costs, and for many people they are unnecessary waste.
I didn't state there was a problem with that but if you looking for a reason to get into it, look elsewhere.
 
The french version has ...168p
 
Many people replying to this thread don't seem to understand the difference between a NP-126 and 126S battery and how this can effect charging and chargers. When video started becoming so popular it created a problem for camera manufacturers. The heat that shooting video creates comes from using more current to run the shutter and sensor for extended periods. This kind of heavy drain could cause battery overheating and premature failure. The NP-126S is basically a redesigned NP-126 with better thermal management and better cell isolation to prevent swelling and battery failure. It can hold up better to high current drains. It can also be charged faster with the following caveat. The charger (or camera) must utilize thermal management and profiling to avoid over heat during charging. Many 3rd party batteries and 3rd party chargers do not have this capability. They fool the charger or camera into thinking they do using a fixed resistor. They also do not have the improved construction to rid excess heat. These batteries can overheat if charged in camera or by the wrong charger. They can fail if used in high current drain situations. Many 3rd party chargers don't have a thermal sensor, but charge slowly to avoid problems. So it really depends on the combination of battery and charger and whether they utilize rapid charging or heavy current drain. Some 3rd party chargers such as Nitecore are starting to include thermal management to avoid over charge. Personally, I would only charge a genuine Fuji battery in the camera and also avoid 3rd party batteries if I did a lot of video shooting.
 

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