How do you avoid wash out clouds...blown out highlights?

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

or is the upper right corner normal for a scene like this?

Hi All,

On the photo below, How do you avoid the wash out clouds in the upper right corner? I can deal white clouds on a blue sky through minor PP but when dark clouds, gray clouds and whites are all in the sky, the white part always wash out.

This was shot in the afternoon when the sun is low on the horizon to get that warm rich color. I adjusted the histogram to it was on the left and I don't think I clipped the highlights. This was shot in JPEG, adjusted for shadows, highlights, exposure, contrast and some sharpness to get the colors that I wanted. I would have been better if the upper right corner is not wash out.

T.I.A.

-Rich

--
- Rich -

Gloomy1 · Sep 2, 2022

Hi Rich it is fairly normal in such a high dynamic scene as this but it is avoidable. Firstly ensure that the right hand side of the histogram is clear of the edge. This will give you a very dark shot but the highlights will be preserved but the shadows will need to be lifted in pp and may give you a noisy image. Alternatively shoot in RAW and do the same. Shooting in RAW should allow you to increase the exposure by approx 1 stop and the lifted shadows should be much less noisy. Next alternative bracket your shots and blend them in pp. Alternatively get an old fashioned graduated filter over the sky, this should allow you to increase the overall exposure by more than a stop and preserve the highlights. Shooting high dynamic range scenes in jpeg will almost inevitably lead to issues like this. Lastly you could clone in parts of the clouds that aren't blown at a reduced level over the blown areas or let content aware fill do this for you, it can look OK, sometimes. Hope that this helps. Ken

Gary from Seattle · Sep 2, 2022

If it is a very small area of an image, I don't worry about that; but here it is a large and conspicuous area of your image. The image you have here is a difficult one as you have a very wide DR from shadowed peak and dark clouds left to the brightness far right. Generally, I also shoot jpegs too, and watch highlights and shadows not only with the tool in my camera, but by my eyes through the EVF as I shoot. I can still generally get by with a jpeg but will bracket my shots a bit and try to pick the one that comes out best when problematic.

If a shot is very worthwhile and I see a potential problem I will also shoot RAW where there is greater highlight recovery. If extremely problematic I suppose most here would shoot RAW with different exposures and combine them in Photoshop or something like that application. Personally I don't find I need to go to that extent if I bracket and am careful how I frame images.

I feel I take so many images that it is hard to justify putting in that amount of work on one image. That said your image is very nice, here, but maybe you did not need to frame as wide as you did far left or perhaps far right. You could crop this image a bit.

Poldersnapper · Sep 2, 2022

Hi Rich,

You could make a darker version of the image by adjusting levels in combination with some cloning.
Combine the shots with the 'Move' tool (I use PS Elements 2021) and use the 'Eraser' tool to blend them together.

My attempt:

André

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

This is processed from RAW converted to JPEG. I tried to duplicate the settings I used in JPEG but did readjust the blown highlights on the upper right corner. I think it looks much better. I guess one of my habit is to always (well, majority) ETTR on any scene. I have to evaluate that habit depending on the subject. A while back, I was considering getting grad ND, now with high/very high DR landscape that involves clouds/sky, I might have to reconsider it again.

Again, thank you guys for your time, your suggestions, recommendation and CC.

-Rich

--
- Rich -

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

poldersnapper said:
Hi Rich,

You could make a darker version of the image by adjusting levels in combination with some cloning.
Combine the shots with the 'Move' tool (I use PS Elements 2021) and use the 'Eraser' tool to blend them together.

My attempt:

André

Thanks Andre. That looks a lot better than my first attempt

I just got the ACDsee Photo Studio 2022 and still getting used it and trying to start playing and processing RAW files. I do shoot RAW + JPEG all the time but 99% I just tweak the JPEG

Thanks again.

--
- Rich -

Gloomy1 · Sep 2, 2022

You are more than welcome. Two things that I regularly do when trying to rescue skies. On my brush as well as reducing highlights/ exposure I also slightly reduce saturation and a l also apply a little negative clarity this tends to blur the edges of the blown highlights. Ken

Austinian · Sep 2, 2022

I always shoot raw, and I have each camera's zebra settings such that overexposed areas show the zebras. I use aperture priority and set exposure comp for each shot so that the brightest areas I want to preserve don't show zebras.

Then, to be sure (since I may not be able to reshoot later) I'll usually bracket 3 shots +/- 1 stop.

mreynolds767 · Sep 2, 2022

For this type of scene I would take multiple exposures to make sure I had at least one with nothing blown out

Can just put the camera in bracket mode but I usually just do it manually with multiple single shots

Confirm on the in camera histogram you are good before moving on

an nd grad filter would not work well here as you have mountains above the horizon line which will be too dark if you used a grad nd ; those really only work perfectly with a clear horizon like at many seascapes

--
Online Gallery here
https://www.mattreynoldsphotography.com/

Gary from Seattle · Sep 2, 2022

Gloomy1 said:
You are more than welcome. Two things that I regularly do when trying to rescue skies. On my brush as well as reducing highlights/ exposure I also slightly reduce saturation and a l also apply a little negative clarity this tends to blur the edges of the blown highlights. Ken

Although I can use Olympus Workspace or LR for RAW, I can also use an older IPHOTO program. If I increase the definition in the image, contrast, or sharpen excessively I may also affect highlights.

mfinley · Sep 2, 2022

rgs_45 said:
On the photo below, How do you avoid the wash out clouds in the upper right corner? I can deal white clouds on a blue sky through minor PP but when dark clouds, gray clouds and whites are all in the sky, the white part always wash out.

Shoot Raw instead of Jpeg, you will have a bit more dynamic range to work with
Expose more for the highlights rather than for the shadows this is called ETTR you can google ETTR for a whole month's worth of education to read
Shoot bracketed frames and combine using HDR settings in Lightroom
Clone in small amounts of blown-out sky in Photoshop using the clone tool
Not worry too much about it unless you're creating final images for large prints to be scrutinized, stuff for the web or social media has a lot more leeway in regard to perfect tonalities

Krusty79 · Sep 2, 2022

This is why I use a tripod and shoot RAW. You can't fit the dynamic range of this scene into one shot, so I would also bracket.

I generally don't use graduated ND filters, as the horizon is rarely level in the mountains. However, in this scene, you could hand hold one and tilt it so that it only affects the blown out part of the sky. You'll have to use a tripod to do this, though and watch out for any glare produced by the filter.

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

Austinian said:
I always shoot raw, and I have each camera's zebra settings such that overexposed areas show the zebras. I use aperture priority and set exposure comp for each shot so that the brightest areas I want to preserve don't show zebras.

Then, to be sure (since I may not be able to reshoot later) I'll usually bracket 3 shots +/- 1 stop.

Thanks Austinian. pervious reply mentioned bracketing too..it makes great sense. I already shoot RAW + JPEG already but as only processes or tweak JPEG for faster sharing.

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

mreynolds767 said:
For this type of scene I would take multiple exposures to make sure I had at least one with nothing blown out

Can just put the camera in bracket mode but I usually just do it manually with multiple single shots

Confirm on the in camera histogram you are good before moving on

an nd grad filter would not work well here as you have mountains above the horizon line which will be too dark if you used a grad nd ; those really only work perfectly with a clear horizon like at many seascapes

All great recommendations and well noted. Thank you.

kciuk aka Ken60 · Sep 2, 2022

Rich if you want to try it , send me the RAW file and I will do what I can with it . It might be an interesting exercise for you to see if PP and RAW files are worth the learning.

PS , I do not intend to use or nick your image or IP !

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

mfinley said:
rgs_45 said:

On the photo below, How do you avoid the wash out clouds in the upper right corner? I can deal white clouds on a blue sky through minor PP but when dark clouds, gray clouds and whites are all in the sky, the white part always wash out.

Click to expand...

Shoot Raw instead of Jpeg, you will have a bit more dynamic range to work with

Expose more for the highlights rather than for the shadows this is called ETTR you can google ETTR for a whole month's worth of education to read

Shoot bracketed frames and combine using HDR settings in Lightroom

Clone in small amounts of blown-out sky in Photoshop using the clone tool

Not worry too much about it unless you're creating final images for large prints to be scrutinized, stuff for the web or social media has a lot more leeway in regard to perfect tonalities

Thank you very much.

rgs_45 · Sep 2, 2022

Krusty79 said:
This is why I use a tripod and shoot RAW. You can't fit the dynamic range of this scene into one shot, so I would also bracket.

I generally don't use graduated ND filters, as the horizon is rarely level in the mountains. However, in this scene, you could hand hold one and tilt it so that it only affects the blown out part of the sky. You'll have to use a tripod to do this, though and watch out for any glare produced by the filter.

Thanks a bunch. Majority consensus is bracketing

Noted. 1st thing I will do for a scene that I lik.

Regarding ND grad, i guess they're great if the horizon is straight or at angle as one can rotate the ND but not usable for mountainous background.

Austinian · Sep 2, 2022

rgs_45 said:
Austinian said:

I always shoot raw, and I have each camera's zebra settings such that overexposed areas show the zebras. I use aperture priority and set exposure comp for each shot so that the brightest areas I want to preserve don't show zebras.

Then, to be sure (since I may not be able to reshoot later) I'll usually bracket 3 shots +/- 1 stop.

Click to expand...

Thanks Austinian. pervious reply mentioned bracketing too..it makes great sense. I already shoot RAW + JPEG already but as only processes or tweak JPEG for faster sharing.

Just FYI, if you start bracketing you'll have images with less-than-great exposure to get rid of. A really fine tool IMO for culling the lesser ones is FastRawViewer, which has the great virtue (again IMO) of telling you about your raw images' actual exposure, blown highlights, etc. which is not guaranteed with some software. It's not free, but it is cheap. It's one of my most-used tools.

FastRawViewer

We needed it. We made it. We share it.

www.fastrawviewer.com

Reilly Diefenbach · Sep 3, 2022

rgs_45 said:
or is the upper right corner normal for a scene like this?

Hi All,

On the photo below, How do you avoid the wash out clouds in the upper right corner? I can deal white clouds on a blue sky through minor PP but when dark clouds, gray clouds and whites are all in the sky, the white part always wash out.

This was shot in the afternoon when the sun is low on the horizon to get that warm rich color. I adjusted the histogram to it was on the left and I don't think I clipped the highlights. This was shot in JPEG, adjusted for shadows, highlights, exposure, contrast and some sharpness to get the colors that I wanted. I would have been better if the upper right corner is not wash out.

T.I.A.

-Rich

Check out this You Tube Photoshop guru, starting in your case at 6:58. 32 bit processing will pull full details in areas previously thought to be blown. Your (raw) pic looks like a prime candidate.

mfinley · Sep 3, 2022

Austinian said:
Just FYI, if you start bracketing you'll have images with less-than-great exposure to get rid of. A really fine tool IMO for culling the lesser ones is FastRawViewer, which has the great virtue (again IMO) of telling you about your raw images' actual exposure, blown highlights, etc. which is not guaranteed with some software. It's not free, but it is cheap. It's one of my most-used tools.

Why would you have throw away images when bracketing? You should have exactly what you need, if you're shooting brackets and producing large numbers of unusable files, you don't have a complete understanding of the process.

First steps would be to learn not only about dynamic range but understand what the dynamic range of the camera you are using is capable of capturing, then learn how to use the in-camera metering system to understand the dynamic range of the subject in front of you, in other words for the OP he should adjust the exposure of the subject until the blown out area shows detail and note how many f- stops that was from his final exposure, then bracket accordingly to capture that correct underexposed frame or frames in 3 f-stop increments.

If the over-exposed clouds were 6 stops out of the capability of the dynamic range the single exposure is able to capture, he exposes (1) 6 stop underexposure and (1) 3 stop underexposure and (1) right on the money frame, then combine in post. That is a total of 3 frames, nothing to delete.

If the same scene also has shadow detail that is 3 stops out of the dynamic range his camera is able to capture, then he adds (1) 3 stop over exposed frame to the capture for a total of 4 frames total.

It's not just pointing the camera and make 20 exposures of 1 stop difference each and then deleting the 15 extra frames you ended up with that are black screens.

How do you avoid wash out clouds...blown out highlights?

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