Appalling (Amazon) shipping -> risk of internal damage?

I have not had to buy any bubble wrap for maybe 1 year because of all the bubble wrap B&H sends me !

They have been sending the good bubble wrap too. The large Adorama bubble bags I don't care for.

They do it because it looks good and is kinda cheap insurance ?

That is why I do it ! :)
Yes, B&H often uses bubble wrap. My experience has been that there is a lot of variability in B&H's packing methods.

I've received items packed in bubble wrap, items packed with larger strips of bubble bags, items loose in a larger box, and items in the manufacturer's box.

I suspect it depends on what was ordered, what they had available, and the person who packed the order.

.

I bought a dry mounting press from B&H. It weighs about 78 pounds. B&H slapped a shipping label on the manufacturer's box and sent it to me without additional packaging.

When I got it, the manufacturer's box was noticeable beaten up and damaged. Yet, the dry mounting press inside was in fine condition. Had B&H used bubble wrap and an external box, then I would likely have received a manufacturer's box in good condition.

Either way, I got a working product.
 
Dollar General is the local Fedex place.

While waiting outside on a friend i watched the Fedex driver load boxes. Ouch.

Lots of bubble wrap please. :)

--
Dr. says listen to this every morning.
 
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Dollar General is the local Fedex place.

While waiting outside on a friend i watched the Fedex driver load boxes. Ouch.

Lots of bubble wrap please. :)
Then don't watch videos of FedEx, UPS, etc. sorting facilities. I suspect the tossing around you saw was much milder than what happens behind closed doors..

But this is not the issue. It's a given that packages may receive rough handling during shipment.

The issue is whether the manufacturer's box is sturdy enough for the product to survive expected handling, or if it requires additional protection.

Consider the Paul C. Buff company. They are manufacturer's of studio lights. They primarily ship direct to consumers. If you order a light from them, they pull it from inventory, and slap a shipping label on it. There is no additional outer box, and no additional padding.

Suppose that B&H or Amazon started carrying Paul C. Buff lights. Would you find it unacceptable if B&H or Amazon put that Paul C. Buff box into a larger box with little or no additional padding?

Remember, the Paul C, Buff manufacturer's box is designed to survive being shipped without additional packaging. Most manufacturer's box are designed this way.
 
Dollar General is the local Fedex place.

While waiting outside on a friend i watched the Fedex driver load boxes. Ouch.

Lots of bubble wrap please. :)
While I am not an extremist, I am concerned about our obession with excessive use of plastic, packing materials and with insisting that every box, never mind item, be 100% cosmetically perfect down to the micron level. If we’d all except a little inconsequential “damage” we could go a long way towards reducing both costs and waste.

Less bubble wrap for me please. Wrap the manufacturer’s box in brown paper. Though I wish we lived in a world where that extra step wasn’t necessary.
 
Why do shipping companies backage the factory box inside another box?
You would be ok with the factory box arriving with shipping labels all over it? And, I'm not sure about Sony but Canon boxes are not sealed so it would also mean putting tape all over the factory box.
 
The correct answer is B&H and Canon USA use so much bubble wrap because they ship with Fedex ?

When I buy a camera I consider it mine from the moment I pay for it.

So please ship my camera with lots of bubble wrap.
 
Dollar General is the local Fedex place.

While waiting outside on a friend i watched the Fedex driver load boxes. Ouch.

Lots of bubble wrap please. :)
While I am not an extremist, I am concerned about our obession with excessive use of plastic, packing materials and with insisting that every box, never mind item, be 100% cosmetically perfect down to the micron level. If we’d all except a little inconsequential “damage” we could go a long way towards reducing both costs and waste.

Less bubble wrap for me please. Wrap the manufacturer’s box in brown paper. Though I wish we lived in a world where that extra step wasn’t necessary.
I recycle and ship it out.
 
Why do shipping companies backage the factory box inside another box?
There are a few good reasons to package a shipping box inside another box.
In addition to the reasons you bring forth, it is my understanding that Amazon has their packing algorithm down the “how we pack the truck” level for deliveries using a local distrubtion center and Amazon trucks. This is one of the explanations for the seemingly inexplicable “micro SD card in a giant box” experience.
 
I recycle and ship it out.
Good for you. Still, in aggregate, too much of this material ends up in the waste stream and the manufacturing debt, and recycling debt, isn’t zero. And that’s before we dig into what happens to most things that are “recycled” in this country — sadly, there’s no money in it and very few assign an ecomic value to the health of the planet. To be clear, I’m as guilty as anyone of consumption — but we all must do better.

Reuse trumps recycling, “Never came into being” because we didn’t need it beats all.
 
I recycle and ship it out.
Good for you. Still, in aggregate, too much of this material ends up in the waste stream and the manufacturing debt, and recycling debt, isn’t zero. And that’s before we dig into what happens to most things that are “recycled” in this country — sadly, there’s no money in it and very few assign an ecomic value to the health of the planet. To be clear, I’m as guilty as anyone of consumption — but we all must do better.

Reuse trumps recycling, “Never came into being” because we didn’t need it beats all.
I use it to pack stuff I sell. Who throws away good bubble wrap ?
 
I received a clothing item (not Amazon) that was the wrong size. They sent us another but told us to keep the wrong item. I presume that the return shipping and restocking would cost more than the item itself. I knew someone who worked for a clothing retailer. They told me that the markup was about 10 times what the item actually cost. In other words, something that retailed for $60 cost the store only $6.
10x seems way high. Retail markup would be around 2x, meaning for a $60 item they pay $30 wholesale. The actual manufacturing cost might be around half that, so total markup from out the door at the manufacturer to a rack at retail might be 4x.
It may seem high but the girl was a manager and certainly had no reason to lie to me. Manufacturing costs amount to pennies because they are made in SE Asia by grossly underpaid laborers.
No, not suggesting she was knowingly telling an untruth. There could be very specific items that end up with that kind of markup, but generally speaking 10x is not common at all. Even with China manufacturing costs.
Lots of clothes come from Viet Nam etc, not China. Chine has gotten more expensive.
The point still stands; from everything I've read as well as being involved with distribution facilities for 20+ years, it's not common for there to be a 10x markup.
I’ve done some catalog photo work for clothing companies. St one point I was told that the company paid the factory in Vietnam about $2 for a dress that retailed for $25 to $30. Usually the company sells to a store, and the store sells to the consumer. I would expect the store pays about $10.

However, the company also has a division that sells direct to consumers on Amazon, and on their own site. If you are buy from their web site, you are paying $25 for a dress that cost them $2.
Hmmm, ok very interesting.
Keep in mind that the $2 spent in Nam for making the dress does not reflect the entirety of all the costs.

I publish books that we print in China. The paper, print, binding (PPB) costs for a $30 retail book are about $3. One would assume that if we sold direct (we do) we would be making about 90%. That doesn't pay the editors that created the words and photos, the designers that designed the book, the 3rd party warehouse and shipping facility where the product was handled, the overseas shipping and customs cost, and in our case, royalties to the authors, employee salaries, etc.

I think the disconnect between Tom's friend and the posted linked studies on margins may be related to this. Tom's friend saw the $2 costs, as many have, and the $25 retail, and assumed 90% because they did not account for all costs in getting the product to market. Raw manufacturing costs seldom give an accurate picture to total costs.
 
I just received a box from ebay packed about the same.

It was a recycled box that still had Amazon tape on it.

I complained to the person that shipped it and they said that is the way they ship and no one else has complained.

They have 100% feedback too.

I guess it was shipped by the Amazon standards that are becoming so common today ? :(
I try to recycle everything I buy, including the shipping materials.

Bravo to that Ebay seller for recycling shipping materials!

You should give him a recommendation rather than a complaint.
 
I recycle and ship it out.
Good for you. Still, in aggregate, too much of this material ends up in the waste stream and the manufacturing debt, and recycling debt, isn’t zero. And that’s before we dig into what happens to most things that are “recycled” in this country — sadly, there’s no money in it and very few assign an ecomic value to the health of the planet. To be clear, I’m as guilty as anyone of consumption — but we all must do better.

Reuse trumps recycling, “Never came into being” because we didn’t need it beats all.
I use it to pack stuff I sell. Who throws away good bubble wrap ?
Lots of people? Those who don’t “sell stuff”. Those who do “sell stuff” but use a fulfillment company? My apocryphal neighbors who pay someone to take their stuff to the UPS store who in turn packs and ships it for them?

Me?

I’m in the middle of the spectrum myself. I do save “good” pieces of bubble wrap and packing material. However, once I have one “flip-lid carton” full —maybe two as the holidays approach, though lately Amazon does a lot of that “packing and shipping” for me — additional material must go. There’s only so much room here. Bubble wrap gets punctured and goes into a “plastic bag of plastic bags” to be taken to the county facility.

When I lived with my ex — no kids, 16 room Victorian — we had an entire “packaging materials room” on the third floor. She was a glass blower, and obsessively hoarded the stuff. I think I initially won her over with rolls of bubble wrap that Hobie used to ship kayaks to my employer — wrap otherwise headed to the dumpster. Eventually, even using materials regularly, that room filled to the point where after passing much along to other artists, I still had to haul a trailer load off. Make that the back of my SUV plus the trailer.

There is a better than even chance that at this very moment I could bike one mile to my city’s recycling drop-off (for items that don’t fit into your bi-weekly bin) and photograph an entire dumpster full of bubble wrap and brown shipping cartons. I don’t see this every time I visit, but frequently enough. I’ll see it more frequently as the holidays approach. The irony is that the bubble wrap isn’t even supposed to be dropped there. It can’t be recycled curbside here either. It needs to go to a country facility along with plastic “grocery” bags.

I store the “soft plastic” and make a run to that facility about twice a year. Many can’t be bothered to drive the 20 minutes so they dump it in the local mixed bins. No doubt congratulating themselves for doing their part by “recycling”.

The irony is that the presence of those materials in the “mixed” recycling contaminates it, so the entire dumpster will end up in the landfill. Gold stars all around!
 
I recycle and ship it out.
Good for you. Still, in aggregate, too much of this material ends up in the waste stream and the manufacturing debt, and recycling debt, isn’t zero. And that’s before we dig into what happens to most things that are “recycled” in this country — sadly, there’s no money in it and very few assign an ecomic value to the health of the planet. To be clear, I’m as guilty as anyone of consumption — but we all must do better.

Reuse trumps recycling, “Never came into being” because we didn’t need it beats all.
I use it to pack stuff I sell. Who throws away good bubble wrap ?
Lots of people? Those who don’t “sell stuff”. Those who do “sell stuff” but use a fulfillment company? My apocryphal neighbors who pay someone to take their stuff to the UPS store who in turn packs and ships it for them?

Me?

I’m in the middle of the spectrum myself. I do save “good” pieces of bubble wrap and packing material. However, once I have one “flip-lid carton” full —maybe two as the holidays approach, though lately Amazon does a lot of that “packing and shipping” for me — additional material must go. There’s only so much room here. Bubble wrap gets punctured and goes into a “plastic bag of plastic bags” to be taken to the county facility.

When I lived with my ex — no kids, 16 room Victorian — we had an entire “packaging materials room” on the third floor. She was a glass blower, and obsessively hoarded the stuff. I think I initially won her over with rolls of bubble wrap that Hobie used to ship kayaks to my employer — wrap otherwise headed to the dumpster. Eventually, even using materials regularly, that room filled to the point where after passing much along to other artists, I still had to haul a trailer load off. Make that the back of my SUV plus the trailer.

There is a better than even chance that at this very moment I could bike one mile to my city’s recycling drop-off (for items that don’t fit into your bi-weekly bin) and photograph an entire dumpster full of bubble wrap and brown shipping cartons. I don’t see this every time I visit, but frequently enough. I’ll see it more frequently as the holidays approach. The irony is that the bubble wrap isn’t even supposed to be dropped there. It can’t be recycled curbside here either. It needs to go to a country facility along with plastic “grocery” bags.

I store the “soft plastic” and make a run to that facility about twice a year. Many can’t be bothered to drive the 20 minutes so they dump it in the local mixed bins. No doubt congratulating themselves for doing their part by “recycling”.

The irony is that the presence of those materials in the “mixed” recycling contaminates it, so the entire dumpster will end up in the landfill. Gold stars all around!
Fellow up the street has a lighting business and gets a lot of bubble wrap.

He saves it and gives it away to ebayers.

Mail lady told me. She knows the ebayers. :)
 
Fellow up the street has a lighting business and gets a lot of bubble wrap.

He saves it and gives it away to ebayers.

Mail lady told me. She knows the ebayers. :)
To your way of thinking I’d expect to find flocks of eBayers pulling the undamaged wrap from the (mostly) clean recycling dumpsters instead of watching it be hauled away to a landfill. (I’d also argue that the mail lady really shouldn’t be commenting on the shipping habits of those on her route. I’m sure it happens, particularly in smaller communities, and I’m not personally bothered by this, but someone is going to call that an invasion of privacy.)

Anyhow, I’ll be sure to add “find a shipping artist” to my to do list. I know several many, but they don’t seem to ship enough that they’ve asked to take on my surplus.

Not having to do would be preferable. Less packing material = Less waste. Recycling and reuse move the values, but don’t alter the equation.
 
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I received a clothing item (not Amazon) that was the wrong size. They sent us another but told us to keep the wrong item. I presume that the return shipping and restocking would cost more than the item itself. I knew someone who worked for a clothing retailer. They told me that the markup was about 10 times what the item actually cost. In other words, something that retailed for $60 cost the store only $6.
10x seems way high. Retail markup would be around 2x, meaning for a $60 item they pay $30 wholesale. The actual manufacturing cost might be around half that, so total markup from out the door at the manufacturer to a rack at retail might be 4x.
It may seem high but the girl was a manager and certainly had no reason to lie to me. Manufacturing costs amount to pennies because they are made in SE Asia by grossly underpaid laborers.
No, not suggesting she was knowingly telling an untruth. There could be very specific items that end up with that kind of markup, but generally speaking 10x is not common at all. Even with China manufacturing costs.
Lots of clothes come from Viet Nam etc, not China. Chine has gotten more expensive.
The point still stands; from everything I've read as well as being involved with distribution facilities for 20+ years, it's not common for there to be a 10x markup.
I’ve done some catalog photo work for clothing companies. St one point I was told that the company paid the factory in Vietnam about $2 for a dress that retailed for $25 to $30. Usually the company sells to a store, and the store sells to the consumer. I would expect the store pays about $10.

However, the company also has a division that sells direct to consumers on Amazon, and on their own site. If you are buy from their web site, you are paying $25 for a dress that cost them $2.
Hmmm, ok very interesting.
Keep in mind that the $2 spent in Nam for making the dress does not reflect the entirety of all the costs.

I publish books that we print in China. The paper, print, binding (PPB) costs for a $30 retail book are about $3. One would assume that if we sold direct (we do) we would be making about 90%. That doesn't pay the editors that created the words and photos, the designers that designed the book, the 3rd party warehouse and shipping facility where the product was handled, the overseas shipping and customs cost, and in our case, royalties to the authors, employee salaries, etc.

I think the disconnect between Tom's friend and the posted linked studies on margins may be related to this. Tom's friend saw the $2 costs, as many have, and the $25 retail, and assumed 90% because they did not account for all costs in getting the product to market. Raw manufacturing costs seldom give an accurate picture to total costs.
$2 is the incremental cost of one more item of clothing. This is generally considered the Cost of Goods sold.

Businesses typically have many other costs. R&D, marketing, office rent, telephone, etc. These are generally considered overhead.

If the incremental cost of an item is $2, and you sell it for $10, your gross profit in $8. If that items share of overhead is $5, then your net profit is $3 (the $10 you took in, less the $2 direct cost, and less the $5 share of overhead).

You are correct in that Gross Profit (selling price less direct cost of goods) is not the actual profit from the sale.
 
I received a clothing item (not Amazon) that was the wrong size. They sent us another but told us to keep the wrong item. I presume that the return shipping and restocking would cost more than the item itself. I knew someone who worked for a clothing retailer. They told me that the markup was about 10 times what the item actually cost. In other words, something that retailed for $60 cost the store only $6.
10x seems way high. Retail markup would be around 2x, meaning for a $60 item they pay $30 wholesale. The actual manufacturing cost might be around half that, so total markup from out the door at the manufacturer to a rack at retail might be 4x.
It may seem high but the girl was a manager and certainly had no reason to lie to me. Manufacturing costs amount to pennies because they are made in SE Asia by grossly underpaid laborers.
No, not suggesting she was knowingly telling an untruth. There could be very specific items that end up with that kind of markup, but generally speaking 10x is not common at all. Even with China manufacturing costs.
Lots of clothes come from Viet Nam etc, not China. Chine has gotten more expensive.
The point still stands; from everything I've read as well as being involved with distribution facilities for 20+ years, it's not common for there to be a 10x markup.
I’ve done some catalog photo work for clothing companies. St one point I was told that the company paid the factory in Vietnam about $2 for a dress that retailed for $25 to $30. Usually the company sells to a store, and the store sells to the consumer. I would expect the store pays about $10.

However, the company also has a division that sells direct to consumers on Amazon, and on their own site. If you are buy from their web site, you are paying $25 for a dress that cost them $2.
Hmmm, ok very interesting.
Keep in mind that the $2 spent in Nam for making the dress does not reflect the entirety of all the costs.

I publish books that we print in China. The paper, print, binding (PPB) costs for a $30 retail book are about $3. One would assume that if we sold direct (we do) we would be making about 90%. That doesn't pay the editors that created the words and photos, the designers that designed the book, the 3rd party warehouse and shipping facility where the product was handled, the overseas shipping and customs cost, and in our case, royalties to the authors, employee salaries, etc.

I think the disconnect between Tom's friend and the posted linked studies on margins may be related to this. Tom's friend saw the $2 costs, as many have, and the $25 retail, and assumed 90% because they did not account for all costs in getting the product to market. Raw manufacturing costs seldom give an accurate picture to total costs.
$2 is the incremental cost of one more item of clothing. This is generally considered the Cost of Goods sold.

Businesses typically have many other costs. R&D, marketing, office rent, telephone, etc. These are generally considered overhead.

If the incremental cost of an item is $2, and you sell it for $10, your gross profit in $8. If that items share of overhead is $5, then your net profit is $3 (the $10 you took in, less the $2 direct cost, and less the $5 share of overhead).

You are correct in that Gross Profit (selling price less direct cost of goods) is not the actual profit from the sale.
Yes, that is exactly what I said.
 
I try to buy and sell good bubble wrap and sure try not to throw any away !

And my main source for bubble wrap is B&H. :)

That stuff is good for years of use ?

--
Dr. says listen to this every morning.
 
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Regardless of your personal practice, the presence of so much plastic wrap in our waste stream indicates that, overall, it’s a problem. Yes, people should reuse. Yes people should recycle. Also, people should reduce.
 
The correct answer is B&H and Canon USA use so much bubble wrap because they ship with Fedex ?
The correct answer is that B&H and Canon USA sometimes use lots of bubble wrap, and sometimes they don't. We can speculate as to why it varies, but we do not know.

Some companies charge very high shipping and handling fees. It would not surprise me if these companies used lots of bubble wrap as a justification for the high markup they put on their shipping costs.

I know that Canon service does not charge me for shipping when they return a camera/lens to me. They wrap the camera/lens is a single layer of paper based "bubble wrap", shove it in a cardboard box, and slap a shipping label on it. Only a single layer of protection. Of course, if they were charging me an inflated price for shipping, I would not be surprised if they added extra bubble wrap to make it appear the excess charge was justified.
When I buy a camera I consider it mine from the moment I pay for it.
Do you really? If it was lost or damaged during shipment, would you file an insurance claim, or expect the seller to refund your money?

If your camera gets damaged during shipping, do you expect it to be repaired (after all it was in good condition when it became yours), or do you expect the seller to replace it because it was damaged while it was still theirs?

So please ship my camera with lots of bubble wrap.
If you really want to control shipping, then hire someone to go to the store, pick up the item, pack it to your specifications, and then ship it to you.

If you want it shipped to you with lots of bubble wrap, then you are free to pay for that service. If the merchant is unwilling to promise that service, then choose another merchant who is willing to sell the service that you want.

Personally, I don't want to pay extra to have all my products double packaged in order to make a few other customers happy. Double packaging (putting additional padding around the manufacturer's padding) costs money, and costs always trickle down to buyers.
 

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