_vlad
Senior Member
Your eyes can judge it best
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Xiaomi 12S Ultra with 1-inch main sensor part 2
- Thread starter dazed1
- Start date
Every smartphone and camera enthusiast should watch this stunning video test of 12SU, the photographer that is not even using gcam, but pro mode that is single frame, is already claiming we are at dslr level, imagine him seeing a gcam with 27 stacked frames....
Starts at 23:35
Starts at 23:35
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Answer is: Yes and No. You can take 100 different photos and say - wow, this xiaomi finally take great pictures using stock camera - in most scenarios similar to P40 PRO or sometimes better, so it's very good news. But next day You see beautifull sunrise and think - wow, i will take picture of that amazing view. You take photo using P40 PRO and 12S Ultra and all magic gone. You get really bad photo with seledine grass instead normal green and P40 PRO do it just perfect like it should be. This phone is very constant, i think huawei AI is better than GCAM and xiaomi stock camera in terms of making photo look "magic". Huawei capture photos like i like, AI really help in challenging scenes like sunsets, sunrises etc. If i will have more time i will post some examples comparing 12S Ultra to P40 PRO.
Nobody is lying it depends on the scene and the environment, for me the most important segment in photography is proper noise reduction, texture and detail rendering/dslr like feel, and for that gcam is literally 3y ahead of any oem, especially if you shoot in raw is a blood bath
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I meant Xiaomi must somehow be lying a bit... The company releases the first 1inch camera (almost!), 2.5 years later after my current mobile model Huawei P40 Pro. And the results are somehow not so fantastic in comparison. So either their marketing is fantastic and manage to easily fool people, or they must be somehow right and have better results indeed. Don't you think?
Thanks for all the information. I think that the 12S ultra would be a worthy replacement for my p30 pro. But I live in Germany and would like to have all the necessary frequencies/bands available. Thus I guess I'll have to wait for the 13S Ultra, which will be available for Europe as it seems. Enjoy your new smartphone @drze!
Dazed sent me new better config for 12 S Ultra(thanks!), sadly it doesn't work with MI10 Ultra LMC8.4, so i had to install another GCAM port, so config is the same, but GCAM is different,. I took photo with light source on the front like he said and here is results. Overall i think 10S Ultra has nothing to be ashamed of. Difference is visible, image is brighter and have less noise, but definitely it's not proportional to the size of the sensor. Both phones in night are beasts, XIAOMI 12S Ultra win this comparasion. I don't know how different GCAM affected to this comparasion, maybe if i upgrade MIUI in 10 Ultra i will re-test 
Xiaomi 12 S Ultra
Xiaomi 12 S Ultra
Thanks buddy! Dam! really good results on both phones! and no problem, now im tweaking some even better xmlDazed sent me new better config for 12 S Ultra(thanks!), sadly it doesn't work with MI10 Ultra LMC8.4, so i had to install another GCAM port, so config is the same, but GCAM is different,. I took photo with light source on the front like he said and here is results. Overall i think 10S Ultra has nothing to be ashamed of. Difference is visible, image is brighter and have less noise, but definitely it's not proportional to the size of the sensor. Both phones in night are beasts, XIAOMI 12S Ultra win this comparasion. I don't know how different GCAM affected to this comparasion, maybe if i upgrade MIUI in 10 Ultra i will re-test
Xiaomi 12 S Ultra
BTW yes the idea of what i suggested is done, but still the whole scene is kinda solidly lit, the light source is spread on almost 1/2 of the scene hence creating a bit lower contrast then needed to see a bigger difference, we got too strong performance here, so in order to see the difference we need to go to an extremes, what i would suggest is to make a shade just over the lamp, so the beam can be much more narrow, making the contrast big
Example of what i do, and notice the difference right away,
This is a screenshot from DNG, so don't mind the strong over-exposure, its just to illustrate how big of a contrast is into the shadows, then you pixel peep in them.
P.S. If you notice that the processing time is shorter then usual, and the pic gets a greyish/blue tint, know that its a bug, that causes alot of chroma noise to show into the scene, if you notice this, just do few more shots, and always confirm the frames in order to do a proper versus, if one phone takes like 10 frames the output will be very bad, and will be at big disadvantage, even if the processing is properly long - follow close for any cold tints, they are indicators of bug happening, resulting in alot worse image.
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Good comparison with real life images, thanks!I think this difference comes from XML and settings, not device and sensor. Same LIB and settings - MI10 Ultra vs 12 S Ultra.
MI10 Ultra
12 S Ultra
And finally if someone is interested how P40 PRO competite with both phone - i think not bad
And here we are with 2x zoom comparasion of 12 S Ultra nad MI10 PRO. In theory 12S utlra should be clear winner
2x digital zoom mi 10 ultra
2x digital zoom 12 S Ultra
And here we are with crops - almost the same, 10 is maybe 3 percent better.
Crop 12S Ultra 2x zoom
Crop MI10 Ultra 2x zoom
And the reason why i'm stay with 10S UltraReal 2x zoom camera to compare
and real life example why 2x is the best camera
1x zoom is nice
5x zoom is nice too
but this is perfect
I never looked much into Xiaomi/Huawei, but see now why some say Huawei have a more natural rendering. Both Xiaomis still have a processed (computer graphic like) look in the distant trees. Not visible on phone, but it is one of my enemies when watching it at a big screen. RAW and proper processing may be able to fix it, maybe even gcam alone with proper NM and processing. Huawei just nails the trees.
If not pixel peeping - they are all fine, even on a 4k monitor
X11U - X12SUP40 (color adjusted) - P40 (original)
_vlad
Senior Member
It is all about brand-approach to processing - XIA makes the photos more visually sharp by using sharpening with bigger radius (just for comparison LightRoom "normal" sharpening radius is around 1, microsharpening around 0,5-0,7, and shp radius from 1,5-2 and above is making photo to look sharp when there is little fine detail. But it look ugly IMO.Good comparison with real life images, thanks!I think this difference comes from XML and settings, not device and sensor. Same LIB and settings - MI10 Ultra vs 12 S Ultra.
And finally if someone is interested how P40 PRO competite with both phone - i think not bad
And here we are with 2x zoom comparasion of 12 S Ultra nad MI10 PRO. In theory 12S utlra should be clear winner
And here we are with crops - almost the same, 10 is maybe 3 percent better.
And the reason why i'm stay with 10S Ultra
and real life example why 2x is the best camera
I never looked much into Xiaomi/Huawei, but see now why some say Huawei have a more natural rendering. Both Xiaomis still have a processed (computer graphic like) look in the distant trees. Not visible on phone, but it is one of my enemies when watching it at a big screen. RAW and proper processing may be able to fix it, maybe even gcam alone with proper NM and processing. Huawei just nails the trees.
If not pixel peeping - they are all fine, even on a 4k monitor
X11U - X12SUP40 (color adjusted) - P40 (original)
--
Vlad
The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
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Zoran K
Senior Member
I am speechless.The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
_vlad
Senior Member
Well it is multishot - self reducing noise as noise is random for each frame. Nothing special per se. What is amazing, that Phone can do this incamera. With RCamera you have to it on you own - sitting at PC.I am speechless.The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
--
Vlad
Well it is multishot - self reducing noise as noise is random for each frame. Nothing special per se. What is amazing, that Phone can do this incamera. With RCamera you have to it on you own - sitting at PC.I am speechless.The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
--
Vlad
I had other many other phones that stacked 20+ frames before, the best ones - with following sensors HMX, IMX 555, HM3, IMX 689, GN2, to have such an exposure+ details + very low noise was impossible, even gn2 couldn't do it, let alone 1/1.6 or 1/1.7 sensors
I think this phone will beat most if not all aps-c /single frame on this scene, (or most static shots scenes) and even some full frames, don't know about you, but for me that is impressive.
_vlad
Senior Member
It is impressive - no doubt, and good sensor is a key, but as for me, the impressiveness of it is that it is done in-camera. Obviously it can beat singleshot RC cameras JPG OOC- but then you have RAW and best Denoise programs - so it is questionable if the difference will be visible (and which will be better). Plus with RC it is no problem to get this multistacking approach handheld In Post. I´done it several times with m M43 cams and the output is really stunning. But as I said it has to be done using PC plus either RAW development or multi-frame operation.I had other many other phones that stacked 20+ frames before, the best ones - with following sensors HMX, IMX 555, HM3, IMX 689, GN2, to have such an exposure+ details + very low noise was impossible, even gn2 couldn't do it, let alone 1/1.6 or 1/1.7 sensorsWell it is multishot - self reducing noise as noise is random for each frame. Nothing special per se. What is amazing, that Phone can do this incamera. With RCamera you have to it on you own - sitting at PC.I am speechless.The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
I think this phone will beat most if not all aps-c /single frame on this scene, (or most static shots scenes) and even some full frames, don't know about you, but for me that is impressive.
It will be good to have at least basic EXIF data included
--
Vlad
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It is impressive - no doubt, and good sensor is a key, but as for me, the impressiveness of it is that it is done in-camera. Obviously it can beat singleshot RC cameras JPG OOC- but then you have RAW and best Denoise programs - so it is questionable if the difference will be visible (and which will be better). Plus with RC it is no problem to get this multistacking approach handheld In Post. I´done it several times with m M43 cams and the output is really stunning. But as I said it has to be done using PC plus either RAW development or multi-frame operation.I had other many other phones that stacked 20+ frames before, the best ones - with following sensors HMX, IMX 555, HM3, IMX 689, GN2, to have such an exposure+ details + very low noise was impossible, even gn2 couldn't do it, let alone 1/1.6 or 1/1.7 sensorsWell it is multishot - self reducing noise as noise is random for each frame. Nothing special per se. What is amazing, that Phone can do this incamera. With RCamera you have to it on you own - sitting at PC.I am speechless.The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
I think this phone will beat most if not all aps-c /single frame on this scene, (or most static shots scenes) and even some full frames, don't know about you, but for me that is impressive.
It will be good to have at least basic EXIF data included
--
Vlad
Stock night mode
Gcam night mode
_vlad
Senior Member
Thanks
- dazed1 wrote:
It is impressive - no doubt, and good sensor is a key, but as for me, the impressiveness of it is that it is done in-camera. Obviously it can beat singleshot RC cameras JPG OOC- but then you have RAW and best Denoise programs - so it is questionable if the difference will be visible (and which will be better). Plus with RC it is no problem to get this multistacking approach handheld In Post. I´done it several times with m M43 cams and the output is really stunning. But as I said it has to be done using PC plus either RAW development or multi-frame operation.I had other many other phones that stacked 20+ frames before, the best ones - with following sensors HMX, IMX 555, HM3, IMX 689, GN2, to have such an exposure+ details + very low noise was impossible, even gn2 couldn't do it, let alone 1/1.6 or 1/1.7 sensorsWell it is multishot - self reducing noise as noise is random for each frame. Nothing special per se. What is amazing, that Phone can do this incamera. With RCamera you have to it on you own - sitting at PC.I am speechless.The things that this sensor/gcam/xml can do are unreal, im speechless. Sorry for the boring pics/screenshots but im mostly interested in the technical aspects of photography/hardware.
Take a look at this,
1 shot is control, to see how dark it is, its not 100% accurate representation of reality, but its at worst 90% close to what i see with my eyes (or dont see lol)
So you know when this brands make before and after in darkness? and while i must admit it looks impressive, if you crop in just 50% in those pics, its all mushy and full of noise reduction and very little detail, just to get an idea, this are 175% crops,
Control, no night mode,
Stock camera night mode
GCAM night mode
Here we do not have that noise reduction water-paint effect, its full of texture, while still being brighter then even stock that is known for their exposure performance.
I think this phone will beat most if not all aps-c /single frame on this scene, (or most static shots scenes) and even some full frames, don't know about you, but for me that is impressive.
It will be good to have at least basic EXIF data included
Stock night mode
Gcam night mode
--
Vlad
has anyone done a heic vs jpg quality comparison on xiaomi 12s ultra? I wonder if there's any drop in quality by using HEIC?
Also which is the telegram channel to follow for new XML updates on 12SU Gcam?
lastly, I'm curious how the intermediate zoom works. E.g. in 2x mode, does it simply do a crop + interpolation OR does it apply some smart algorithm and mix the 1x and 5x sensors to give a better output like Huawei? Knowing this will give me more confidence to use the in-between zoom levels even though it's not recommended.
Also which is the telegram channel to follow for new XML updates on 12SU Gcam?
lastly, I'm curious how the intermediate zoom works. E.g. in 2x mode, does it simply do a crop + interpolation OR does it apply some smart algorithm and mix the 1x and 5x sensors to give a better output like Huawei? Knowing this will give me more confidence to use the in-between zoom levels even though it's not recommended.
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