Xiaomi 12S Ultra with 1-inch main sensor part 2

dazed1 · Aug 20, 2022

The old thread reach the limit of posts per thread, so i decided to open a new one.

General info and specs of the phone,

I got the phone 2 weeks ago, and im very happy with everything it offers, i'm not a fan of Xiaomi UI, but the hardware is amazing.

Here is GCAM vs stock shots,

STOCK

GCAM

Drzewoid · Aug 21, 2022

Actually i'm back to MI10 Ultra

It's much thicker than 12 S Ultra, it has 2x zoom. In theory thanks to bigger sensor i should get better software zoom 2x from 12S, but in practice - 2x software zoom from MI10 Ultra is almost good as dedicated 2x sensor(also in MI10 Ultra), but 12S Ultra is not good as older model.

Difference in night is almost imperceptible, bokeh effect sometimes ruins photo instead make it better. UWA is better in 12 S Ultra, but i don't use it very much. And finally i have fullres mode in MI10 Ultra, which sometimes is very usefull. I also cannot use my super tele zoom lens Olympus C-210 with 12 S Ultra, because zoom lens is on center of the phone :/

12 S Ultra is amazing device, but i would like to see real succesor of MI10 Ultra with short range zoom.

BTW. There is available now XIAOMI EU ROM with multi language support

dazed1 · Aug 22, 2022

Drzewoid said:
Actually i'm back to MI10 Ultra

It's much thicker than 12 S Ultra, it has 2x zoom. In theory thanks to bigger sensor i should get better software zoom 2x from 12S, but in practice - 2x software zoom from MI10 Ultra is almost good as dedicated 2x sensor(also in MI10 Ultra), but 12S Ultra is not good as older model.

Difference in night is almost imperceptible, bokeh effect sometimes ruins photo instead make it better. UWA is better in 12 S Ultra, but i don't use it very much. And finally i have fullres mode in MI10 Ultra, which sometimes is very usefull. I also cannot use my super tele zoom lens Olympus C-210 with 12 S Ultra, because zoom lens is on center of the phone :/

12 S Ultra is amazing device, but i would like to see real succesor of MI10 Ultra with short range zoom.

BTW. There is available now XIAOMI EU ROM with multi language support

The difference in low light should be visible when you shoot at high contrast/hard shadows scenes, but yeah 10U still great product

dazed1 · Aug 26, 2022

Did some daylight versus of 12SU + LMC + latest xml im using, and old MTSL + old XML that was known as the best or one of the best,

11U

12SU

The 12SU is quite better even in daylight,

Full res,

11U MTSL

12SU LMC

Drzewoid · Aug 27, 2022

I think this difference comes from XML and settings, not device and sensor. Same LIB and settings - MI10 Ultra vs 12 S Ultra.

MI10 Ultra

12 S Ultra

And finally if someone is interested how P40 PRO competite with both phone - i think not bad

And here we are with 2x zoom comparasion of 12 S Ultra nad MI10 PRO. In theory 12S utlra should be clear winner

2x digital zoom mi 10 ultra

2x digital zoom 12 S Ultra

And here we are with crops - almost the same, 10 is maybe 3 percent better.

Crop 12S Ultra 2x zoom

Crop MI10 Ultra 2x zoom

And the reason why i'm stay with 10S Ultra

Real 2x zoom camera to compare

and real life example why 2x is the best camera

1x zoom is nice

5x zoom is nice too

but this is perfect

Drzewoid · Aug 27, 2022

And main difference between 12 S Ultra and 10 Ultra comes from sensor size

10S Ultra bokeh

12S Ultra bokeh is more like real camera bokeh

Drzewoid · Aug 27, 2022

In complete darkness 1 inch sensor actually do the difference and gives more details

When i compared MI11 Ultra to MI10 Ultra - MI10 with smaller sensor always win.

12S Ultra

MI 10 Ultra

Another low light scene

12 S Ultra

MI 10 Ultra

_vlad · Aug 27, 2022

Drzewoid said:
And main difference between 12 S Ultra and 10 Ultra comes from sensor size

10S Ultra bokeh

12S Ultra bokeh is more like real camera bokeh

That bokeh is nice but... Whet trying to achieve this sort of separation with RC (real camera) it is oK. When I want to get bigger DOF - which is typical approach of many (if not most) photos taken I can use with RC higher AV. Not with phone. So this advantage is very frequently disadvantage as for closeups (and 3D objects) it is nearly impossible to have suitable (enough) DOF. But fair to say - this look nice, for sure.

--
Vlad

dazed1 · Aug 27, 2022

Drzewoid said:
In complete darkness 1 inch sensor actually do the difference and gives more details When i compared MI11 Ultra to MI10 Ultra - MI10 with smaller sensor always win.

12S Ultra

MI 10 Ultra

Another low light scene

12 S Ultra

MI 10 Ultra

Difference is even bigger if you introduce flashlight like pointing light source into the wall, and everything else is dark, then you crop into shadows and bam

Drzewoid · Aug 27, 2022

dazed1 said:
Difference is even bigger if you introduce flashlight like pointing light source into the wall, and everything else is dark, then you crop into shadows and bam

Actually I take shot like this today, but not uploaded

Here we are. I think difference is not that huge.

12S Ultra

10S Ultra

Overall i must repeat this night comparasion, because i did some mistake in testing - i think difference between MI10 Ultra and 12S may be minimal or even not exist. MI10 Ultra worked on same lib, but older LMC version. I didn't know it makes difference, but it does. 12S Ultra took photos much longer than MI10 Ultra in this test, but after install the same LMC MI10 also take photo much longer - photo is brighter and have more detail. Both phones tested on 27 frames.

dazed1 · Aug 27, 2022

Drzewoid said:
dazed1 said:

Difference is even bigger if you introduce flashlight like pointing light source into the wall, and everything else is dark, then you crop into shadows and bam

Click to expand...

Thanks, i will check it, but honestly - i must repeat this comparasion, i did some mistake in testing - i think difference between MI10 Ultra and 12S may be minimal or visible in some challenging scenes like You say with light source. MI10 Ultra worked on same lib, but older LMC version. 12S Ultra took photos much longer than MI10 Ultra in today test, but after install the same LMC MI10 also take photo much longer and photo is brighter and have more detail. Both phones on 27 frames.

Difference in sensor size on 10U vs 12SU is like 75% vs GN2 is 31% or so, when i tested the 989 beat GN2 without any issues, there is very little chance the difference from OV48C > 989 won't be even bigger, but the difference should be visible in high contrast low light scenes not daylight or medium light

Also in order to properly judge the difference some heavy cropping is needed and big pc screens not phone display, in case you are using phone screen and not big monitor

On my 32" 4K monitor i can see the difference very easy

Drzewoid · Aug 27, 2022

dazed1 said:
Drzewoid said:

dazed1 said:

Difference is even bigger if you introduce flashlight like pointing light source into the wall, and everything else is dark, then you crop into shadows and bam

Click to expand...

Thanks, i will check it, but honestly - i must repeat this comparasion, i did some mistake in testing - i think difference between MI10 Ultra and 12S may be minimal or visible in some challenging scenes like You say with light source. MI10 Ultra worked on same lib, but older LMC version. 12S Ultra took photos much longer than MI10 Ultra in today test, but after install the same LMC MI10 also take photo much longer and photo is brighter and have more detail. Both phones on 27 frames.

Click to expand...

Difference in sensor size on 10U vs 12SU is like 75% vs GN2 is 31% or so, when i tested the 989 beat GN2 without any issues, there is very little chance the difference from OV48C > 989 won't be even bigger, but the difference should be visible in high contrast low light scenes not daylight or medium light

Also in order to properly judge the difference some heavy cropping is needed and big pc screens not phone display, in case you are using phone screen and not big monitor

On my 32" 4K monitor i can see the difference very easy

I'm also using 32" monitor and i see this difference too, but like i said - i see also difference between photo taken with older LMC, which i used today and new version. I guess this difference will give tie in this photo comparasion. Sensor size matters, but it's not only one key feauture when taking night photos - for example smaller RYYB sensors can take better pictures than bigger conventional sensors, also MI10 Ultra support Dual Native ISO technology, i didn't see that in 12S Ultra. I did also comparasion MI11 Ultra vs MI10 Ultra, which i posted on DPR forum and MI 10 win this comparasion. This is smaller sensor and night photos looks better. Hard to say why.

Overall i have idea how to objective compare sensors in this phones, not only software - i will decrease number of frames to 7 and check results

It may be interesting.

Drzewoid · Aug 27, 2022

_vlad said:
Drzewoid said:

And main difference between 12 S Ultra and 10 Ultra comes from sensor size

10S Ultra bokeh

12S Ultra bokeh is more like real camera bokeh

Click to expand...

That bokeh is nice but... Whet trying to achieve this sort of separation with RC (real camera) it is oK. When I want to get bigger DOF - which is typical approach of many (if not most) photos taken I can use with RC higher AV. Not with phone. So this advantage is very frequently disadvantage as for closeups (and 3D objects) it is nearly impossible to have suitable (enough) DOF. But fair to say - this look nice, for sure.

100% agree with You, bigger sensor is not only pros, there are some cons. This is definitely one of them. Food photos for example

Drzewoid · Aug 28, 2022

Here is new comparasion - i set number of frames to 7 to get more objective results and installed new LMC 8.4 on MI10 Ultra, the same as 12. MI10 Ultra proably thanks to Dual Native ISO have similar performance like 12S Ultra. When using 27 frames - images looks the same on both phones, when using 7 frames 12 S Ultra have less noise on sky, but not always details looks better - look at first picture, here 10 Ultra is winner, but on second photo it's 12 S Ultra.

MI10 Ultra

12 S Ultra

10S Ultra

12 S Ultra

10 Ultra

12S Ultra

sbill · Aug 28, 2022

Hi,

Not sure about the point you made with P40 Pro. I wanted to move from my P40 Pro, to the 12S Ultra, but you seem to say there is no improvements at all?

Regards,

Bill

dazed1 · Aug 29, 2022

Like i mentioned, in order to see the difference you need strong contrast in the scene, always when there is contrast the difference will be much larger, like the clouds scene for example

Also keep in mind 27 frames clean tons of noise its astonishing the difference that it makes, ot can make even much worse sensors look great, and we know ov48c is a great one

Do you use same xml/apk on both? Since that also can make huge difference

Send me a pm i will give tou you one very good xml, then try the versus again

This is what you want to evaluate difference, very dark shadows, and very bright source near them, flashlight in the middle of the wall, but sides very dark, then you evaluate the shadows

Drzewoid · Aug 29, 2022

sbill said:
Hi,

Not sure about the point you made with P40 Pro. I wanted to move from my P40 Pro, to the 12S Ultra, but you seem to say there is no improvements at all?

It's only one proper replacement for P40 PRO, belive me. I posted one photo to compare 50 MPIX AI photo to GCAM 12 MPIX, Huawie still fight, but 12S Ultra with GCAM is really great device, it's even better in low light than Huawei. It has also better UWA lens and more detailed 5x zoom. There are few things P40 do better like capture moving objects, especially in low light, but overall - P40 PRO can't match 12S Ultra with GCAM. Only when using stock CAM P40 PRO is better.

Drzewoid · Aug 29, 2022

dazed1 said:
Like i mentioned, in order to see the difference you need strong contrast in the scene, always when there is contrast the difference will be much larger, like the clouds scene for example

Also keep in mind 27 frames clean tons of noise its astonishing the difference that it makes, ot can make even much worse sensors look great, and we know ov48c is a great one

Do you use same xml/apk on both? Since that also can make huge difference

Send me a pm i will give tou you one very good xml, then try the versus again

This is what you want to evaluate difference, very dark shadows, and very bright source near them, flashlight in the middle of the wall, but sides very dark, then you evaluate the shadows

Yes, both phones with the same LMC and DimRefix library loaded. I sent You message to try this config

I will do some more tests like You say - one light source and rest of scene dark.

_vlad · Aug 29, 2022

Drzewoid said:
sbill said:

Hi,

Not sure about the point you made with P40 Pro. I wanted to move from my P40 Pro, to the 12S Ultra, but you seem to say there is no improvements at all?

Click to expand...

It's only one proper replacement for P40 PRO, belive me. I posted one photo to compare 50 MPIX AI photo to GCAM 12 MPIX, Huawie still fight, but 12S Ultra with GCAM is really great device, it's even better in low light than Huawei. It has also better UWA lens and more detailed 5x zoom. There are few things P40 do better like capture moving objects, especially in low light, but overall - P40 PRO can't match 12S Ultra with GCAM. Only when using stock CAM P40 PRO is better.

Good points, exactly beacuse of P30/P40 UWA experience I skipped P40 to M40P. Even though 5x tele JPG on P/M40 is good I use rather tele - DNG - which is pretty easy to process - and if one does not need this level of rendering - he can use alongside produced JPG.

sbill · Aug 29, 2022

_vlad said:
Drzewoid said:

sbill said:

Hi,

Not sure about the point you made with P40 Pro. I wanted to move from my P40 Pro, to the 12S Ultra, but you seem to say there is no improvements at all?

Click to expand...

It's only one proper replacement for P40 PRO, belive me. I posted one photo to compare 50 MPIX AI photo to GCAM 12 MPIX, Huawie still fight, but 12S Ultra with GCAM is really great device, it's even better in low light than Huawei. It has also better UWA lens and more detailed 5x zoom. There are few things P40 do better like capture moving objects, especially in low light, but overall - P40 PRO can't match 12S Ultra with GCAM. Only when using stock CAM P40 PRO is better.

Click to expand...

Good points, exactly beacuse of P30/P40 UWA experience I skipped P40 to M40P. Even though 5x tele JPG on P/M40 is good I use rather tele - DNG - which is pretty easy to process - and if one does not need this level of rendering - he can use alongside produced JPG.

Xiaomi 12S Ultra with 1-inch main sensor part 2

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