Photoshop question: Adding a lamp to an existing image

Dark Penguin · Aug 27, 2022

Hello all.

I have an antique statue clock in dark bronze. The figure has one arm upraised, and she's holding a sort of rod on which you hang the clock, which swings back and forth, as a pendulum. (Or it would if it were working, but that's beside the point.) Without the clock it looks like she's holding a socket wrench.

In Photoshop, I want to add a full moon from another image, and make it look like she's holding a spherical lamp that looks like the moon. That part is simple; I just copied the moon from the other photo and pasted it to the end of the "socket wrench", made a few other adjustments, and it looks really good. But obviously the light isn't right. I need to make it look like the "moon" is shining on the other objects in the photo...the statue, the table, the curtains behind, and so on. We'll call this Image A.

Is this something that can be done in Photoshop? It won't work if I just make the whole scene brighter.

Taking another approach, the next day I took more photos of the statue, this time with a lightbulb just behind where the moon would go. The lightbulb is at the end of a long articulated table lamp which I think at one time had a shade, but now it's just the bulb. I set up the photo so the figure is holding the socket wrench just in the right position, so when I pasted in the moon, it would cover up the bulb. This way, the light in the original exposure looks like it's coming from the moon lamp. We'll call this Image B.

But now I have to remove the arm of the lamp. And because the whole scene was set up in front of a corner, with slightly glossy walls, the brightness of the wall is highly variable. It's easy enough to get rid of the lamp support, but filling in the background seems difficult. If I'd only thought of taking another exposure with the lamp base on the other side, but with the bulb still in the same position, I could just paste in that part of the wall as is. But alas, I did not.

So how should I approach this? Is it more feasible to remove the lamp support from Image B, and repair the background, or to add the light effect from the moon lamp to Image A?

Is either one of these solutions possible at all?

Dark Penguin · Aug 27, 2022

ETA, missed the edit window.

You can view Image A and Image B here and here, respectively.

sybersitizen · Aug 27, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
So how should I approach this?

Probably the best way would be to reshoot so you have one image with the light doing what it needs to do and another with the light moved (or removed) to avoid wall reflections.

Dark Penguin said:
Is it more feasible to remove the lamp support from Image B, and repair the background, or to add the light effect from the moon lamp to Image A?

I'd have to see the images, but I think trying to simulate the effect of the light on surrounding objects in a convincing way would be harder.

Dark Penguin said:
Is either one of these solutions possible at all?

Yes ... but is reshooting possible at all?

lacogada · Aug 27, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
So how should I approach this? Is it more feasible to remove the lamp support from Image B, and repair the background, or to add the light effect from the moon lamp to Image A?

Is either one of these solutions possible at all?

Here's an attempt with image B

Dark Penguin · Aug 27, 2022

sybersitizen said:
Dark Penguin said:

So how should I approach this?

Click to expand...

Probably the best way would be to reshoot so you have one image with the light doing what it needs to do and another with the light moved (or removed) to avoid wall reflections.

sybersitizen said:

Is it more feasible to remove the lamp support from Image B, and repair the background, or to add the light effect from the moon lamp to Image A?

Click to expand...

I'd have to see the images, but I think trying to simulate the effect of the light on surrounding objects in a convincing way would be harder.

Here's a link to the Flickr album.

sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen said:

Is either one of these solutions possible at all?

Click to expand...

Yes ... but is reshooting possible at all?

Now I'm leaning towards reshooting Image A, but this time with the armature lamp as I used previously in Image B. I'll most likely do that, not only because the background in Image A (a thick curtain) works better than the one in Image B (corner walls painted in semigloss). Also, setting up that shot would be much easier.

Still, it would be nice to know if this could be done in postediting, exclusively.

When photographers speak of photoshopping something/someone out of an image, do they usually mean just using photoshop exclusively on a single image, or rather having an alternate image without the person or thing so they can just paste it over the other version of the photo? I see now why some more attention to planning the shoot would have helped me a great deal.

Rodger in Edmonton · Aug 27, 2022

I would match the moon color to the lamp image first with Image ADJ > Match Color

Here I used 2 Moonlight LUTs because the moon was much brighter than the lamp

Many ways to skin this cat, use a soft brush on an empty layer of the color moonlight you want - here I used the color picker off the moon AFTER it was under the 2 color look ups it. put the brushed blur layer under the Color Look Up (s) layer.

Run through the Blend Modes of the LUT and image to se what you like - I gave it the

" Blue Moon Treatment"

I didn't know if you wanted the room walls apparent , brushed out etc? a Milky Way etc?

You can make the apparent moonlight / desktop area brighter at will by having a Screen layer below , masking and brushing to taste.

Here I just made the light beams with Shift + Click in a starburst pattern.

--
Best Regards, Rodger
Save Lives - Be an Organ or Stem Cell Donor.
Quaecumque vera

Dark Penguin · Aug 27, 2022

Rodger in Edmonton said:
I would match the moon color to the lamp image first with Image ADJ > Match Color

Here I used 2 Moonlight LUTs because the moon was much brighter than the lamp

Many ways to skin this cat, use a soft brush on an empty layer of the color moonlight you want - here I used the color picker off the moon AFTER it was under the 2 color look ups it. put the brushed blur layer under the Color Look Up (s) layer.

Run through the Blend Modes of the LUT and image to se what you like - I gave it the

" Blue Moon Treatment"

I didn't know if you wanted the room walls apparent , brushed out etc? a Milky Way etc?

You can make the apparent moonlight / desktop area brighter at will by having a Screen layer below , masking and brushing to taste.

Here I just made the light beams with Shift + Click in a starburst pattern.

--
Best Regards, Rodger
Save Lives - Be an Organ or Stem Cell Donor.
Quaecumque vera

I really like what you've done here. A starburst placed on a separate layer behind the moon would at least partly accomplish what I'm trying to do. I'd like to keep the backgtound and any other objects clear if possible. With this effect is it possible to get the same highlights and shadows from the moon lamp as you would in real life? I shudder at the thought of how complicated the code for that would be, but then Photoshop is a great product that can do many complex things.

Dark Penguin · Aug 27, 2022

Rodger in Edmonton said:
I didn't know if you wanted the room walls apparent , brushed out etc? a Milky Way etc?

Ultimately, I'll want to experiment with all of these choices.

Thanks again, much appreciated!

Rodger in Edmonton · Aug 27, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
Rodger in Edmonton said:

I would match the moon color to the lamp image first with Image ADJ > Match Color

Here I used 2 Moonlight LUTs because the moon was much brighter than the lamp

Many ways to skin this cat, use a soft brush on an empty layer of the color moonlight you want - here I used the color picker off the moon AFTER it was under the 2 color look ups it. put the brushed blur layer under the Color Look Up (s) layer.

Run through the Blend Modes of the LUT and image to se what you like - I gave it the

" Blue Moon Treatment"

I didn't know if you wanted the room walls apparent , brushed out etc? a Milky Way etc?

You can make the apparent moonlight / desktop area brighter at will by having a Screen layer below , masking and brushing to taste.

Here I just made the light beams with Shift + Click in a starburst pattern.

Click to expand...

I really like what you've done here. A starburst placed on a separate layer behind the moon would at least partly accomplish what I'm trying to do. I'd like to keep the backgtound and any other objects clear if possible. With this effect is it possible to get the same highlights and shadows from the moon lamp as you would in real life? I shudder at the thought of how complicated the code for that would be, but then Photoshop is a great product that can do many complex things.

You can do it to whatever tone, direction and taste you want.

Sorry - I had made the moonlight fall down from habit... here

Here I did the same thing and color picked the moon as it is in your image with a " Foggy Night" Color Look Up AdJ Layer

it is easy to do this the challenge is your moon and lamp pix have different color profiles & tone so one has to dod omething to make them appear as the same image and not cut and pasted as it were. You may want to sphereize your moon with that filter... it will give more apparent curvature to the lunar surface.

--
Best Regards, Rodger
Save Lives - Be an Organ or Stem Cell Donor.
Quaecumque vera

Dark Penguin · Aug 28, 2022

Thanks for all the helpful replies; I've made some progress.

This first one is a reshoot. I tried doing this with the lamp on either side, but the directionality of the bulb made it too difficult for me to combine the two exposures. Simply using the healing brush worked much better.

The orientation of the bulb is still an issue here, burmt that should be fixable l.

Dark Penguin · Aug 28, 2022

ETA: I recently learned there used to be a Lighting Effects tool in Photoshop which was removed in the last release. This would have been such a great help if it still existed. You could turn almost anything into a light source, and the light from the "lamp" would show up naturally on the other objects in the image.

And here I was naive enough to think this didn't happen with paid software.

graybalanced · Aug 28, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
…is it possible to get the same highlights and shadows from the moon lamp as you would in real life? I shudder at the thought of how complicated the code for that would be, but then Photoshop is a great product that can do many complex things.

You’d be surprised…the major advancements today are using AI/machine learning. Some AI models in photo programs are being taught how to realistically change light and shadow on a photo subject, like from a different direction entirely. By understanding the 3D shapes of common photo subjects like faces so that the right areas can be made darker and lighter. Yes, what you want is happening, sometimes called a “re-light” feature, and it is even included in some of the “portrait modes” found in smartphone camera apps.

You can find out more about this technology by web searching on “relight” or “ai relight”.

Dark Penguin said:
ETA: I recently learned there used to be a Lighting Effects tool in Photoshop which was removed in the last release. This would have been such a great help if it still existed. You could turn almost anything into a light source, and the light from the "lamp" would show up naturally on the other objects in the image.

And here I was naive enough to think this didn't happen with paid software.

Lighting Effects was supposedly removed because the old code was not compatible with modern GPUs. I don’t think it was really aware of 3D shapes and surfaces. If it appeared to cast light and shadow on other objects in a photo, I think it was more based on bump maps (grayscale channel), more primitive than the advances being made today with machine learning. It might have solved your problem, but it wasn’t necessarily the most realistic solution.

sybersitizen · Aug 29, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
When photographers speak of photoshopping something/someone out of an image, do they usually mean just using photoshop exclusively on a single image, or rather having an alternate image without the person or thing so they can just paste it over the other version of the photo?

It can be done either way depending on the specifics. But having the second shot to copy areas from is a great help and can save a lot of time.

Rodger in Edmonton · Aug 30, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
ETA: I recently learned there used to be a Lighting Effects tool in Photoshop which was removed in the last release. This would have been such a great help if it still existed. You could turn almost anything into a light source, and the light from the "lamp" would show up naturally on the other objects in the image.

And here I was naive enough to think this didn't happen with paid software.

You did a great job with that Penguin, I like your thinking and the result looks great

- sometimes if one side of an image is blah - but the symmetry is needed - copy it & flip horizontal and mask the bad parts of the image so the good side can act as a clean symmetrical "other" side with the same lighting scheme.

- PS 3D still has infinite lighting - one can make a separate layer ad and object for infinite lighting and, save and clone out the object

Nice to se the creative vibes - artistic thought is the name of the game.

Dark Penguin · Sep 1, 2022

Making progress!

In this case, the actual light I used was about where the "lamp" globe would be. Ideally, the light thrown by it should be completely uniform all around the sphere, but as I thought more about this, I realized that such a lamp IRL would still have some directionality in terms of where it throws the light. If you have a single bulb, and there's no shade or anything else to scatter the light, then there's always going to be a darker spot below or behind the base of the bulb. I also did a mask select on the brighter areas, which I brightened further, but I think this was a mistake as it introduced a bit of haloing.

It turns out my current installation of Photoshop does have Lighting Effects, at least for now. I think it may be removed in the near future, though. It was removed from an Express version of the product.

Dark Penguin · Sep 1, 2022

Rodger in Edmonton said:
Dark Penguin said:

ETA: I recently learned there used to be a Lighting Effects tool in Photoshop which was removed in the last release. This would have been such a great help if it still existed. You could turn almost anything into a light source, and the light from the "lamp" would show up naturally on the other objects in the image.

And here I was naive enough to think this didn't happen with paid software.

Click to expand...

You did a great job with that Penguin, I like your thinking and the result looks great

Thanks!

Rodger in Edmonton said:
- sometimes if one side of an image is blah - but the symmetry is needed - copy it & flip horizontal and mask the bad parts of the image so the good side can act as a clean symmetrical "other" side with the same lighting scheme.

- PS 3D still has infinite lighting - one can make a separate layer ad and object for infinite lighting and, save and clone out the object

Nice to se the creative vibes - artistic thought is the name of the game.

I always use bracketing when I do this type of shot. I'm thinking it should be possible to start with a brighter image and layer the darker one over it, making the latter transparent immediately near the light source, and gradually less so moving away from it. Not that I know how to do that yet, but it seems feasible to me.

Rodger in Edmonton · Sep 1, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
Making progress!

In this case, the actual light I used was about where the "lamp" globe would be. Ideally, the light thrown by it should be completely uniform all around the sphere, but as I thought more about this, I realized that such a lamp IRL would still have some directionality in terms of where it throws the light. If you have a single bulb, and there's no shade or anything else to scatter the light, then there's always going to be a darker spot below or behind the base of the bulb. I also did a mask select on the brighter areas, which I brightened further, but I think this was a mistake as it introduced a bit of haloing.

It turns out my current installation of Photoshop does have Lighting Effects, at least for now. I think it may be removed in the near future, though. It was removed from an Express version of the product.

A long way from the first post Pengy - put it at 400 % & and brush out the moon and statue halos - piece of cake - they will be invisible - all your heavy lifting is done.

its also a great pic to use for composites too - she can be a giant looking down on tourists, a mountain top or harbor beacon .

A great thread to demo how an idea can come to reality and look super, step by step.

For any pic, there are 27 blend modes, 27 Color Look Ups so there's 729 versions right there

--
Best Regards, Rodger
Save Lives - Be an Organ or Stem Cell Donor.
Quaecumque vera

Rodger in Edmonton · Sep 1, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
Rodger in Edmonton said:

Dark Penguin said:

ETA: I recently learned there used to be a Lighting Effects tool in Photoshop which was removed in the last release. This would have been such a great help if it still existed. You could turn almost anything into a light source, and the light from the "lamp" would show up naturally on the other objects in the image.

And here I was naive enough to think this didn't happen with paid software.

Click to expand...

You did a great job with that Penguin, I like your thinking and the result looks great

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Dark Penguin said:

- sometimes if one side of an image is blah - but the symmetry is needed - copy it & flip horizontal and mask the bad parts of the image so the good side can act as a clean symmetrical "other" side with the same lighting scheme.

- PS 3D still has infinite lighting - one can make a separate layer ad and object for infinite lighting and, save and clone out the object

Nice to se the creative vibes - artistic thought is the name of the game.

Click to expand...

I always use bracketing when I do this type of shot. I'm thinking it should be possible to start with a brighter image and layer the darker one over it, making the latter transparent immediately near the light source, and gradually less so moving away from it. Not that I know how to do that yet, but it seems feasible to me.

...opacity % and the blend modes combined with brushing or alone can also help tame pesky brightness..

There is also a radial or circular gradient , click on the desired brightest source point and pull it to taste - a diamond shaped one too..

--
Best Regards, Rodger
Save Lives - Be an Organ or Stem Cell Donor.
Quaecumque vera

Dark Penguin · Sep 1, 2022

Rodger in Edmonton said:
There is also a radial or circular gradient , click on the desired brightest source point and pull it to taste - a diamond shaped one too..

Can the radial gradient be used to vary the transparency? If so, it sounds like just the thing I'm looking for, or at least the easiest thing out of the many distinct Photoshop tools which might accomplish the same thing.

That's a nice photo. Did you take it? I do a lot of astro as well, though nothing really heavy. I'm just using my tripod and DSLR to capture constellations, star trails, the Milky Way, etc. It takes a lot of post processing to do it, but it's amazing what a good camera can capture even in areas with significant light pollution.

Milky Way between Altair and Vega. Diagrams added by nova.astrometry.net.

Rodger in Edmonton · Sep 1, 2022

Dark Penguin said:
Rodger in Edmonton said:

There is also a radial or circular gradient , click on the desired brightest source point and pull it to taste - a diamond shaped one too..

Click to expand...

Can the radial gradient be used to vary the transparency? If so, it sounds like just the thing I'm looking for, or at least the easiest thing out of the many distinct Photoshop tools which might accomplish the same thing.

That's a nice photo. Did you take it? I do a lot of astro as well, though nothing really heavy. I'm just using my tripod and DSLR to capture constellations, star trails, the Milky Way, etc. It takes a lot of post processing to do it, but it's amazing what a good camera can capture even in areas with significant light pollution.

Milky Way between Altair and Vega. Diagrams added by nova.astrometry.net.

Yes - my shot - I was out Wed - a bit of fog dampened the sharpness...thank you, yours is very nice too. I like your idea of putting the constellations on- I have to try that.

t -I agree, lots of PP - it makes ALL the difference ...needed in MW shots - that can take it from nothing to a wowser.

I have scopes but the truth is the DSLR & tripod is by far the most convenient and to my chagrin - and this is crucial:

- because the scope is not engineered for a DSLR - one does not get the razor sharp focus - that was a bummeroo. In an eyepiece the moon looks AAA on a DSLR + scope - its is a CCC+.

I want to nail a good astroscape with a barn but not sure where to go, I find a sparse foreground makes it a bust but I digress -

Yes - the radial gradient can be varied in opacity - just put it on its own layer.

You can pick any color or opacity and range of any gradient by moving the color sliders on the Gradient Tool box, once you have your colors for the gradient sheet, mask it and draw a gradient in B&W and it wil behave like masking brush strokes - black reveals - white conceals.

Example:

map as

gradient

Gradient added -on its own layer...

So here it is with mask you can vary both e opacity of the layer and the density of the layer mask by double clicking on it.

Gradient masked with B&W radial gradient to reveal center but keep green borders...

here is the mask at 50 % density so the red bleeds through..

here is the Hard Mix blend mode for your dino impact thesis

there is also a Gradient map Adjustment layer - that can really punch up B&W shots for example

Its fun just to choose different colors and run through the blend modes.

BTW - On Astro - do you have Sequator and Deep Sky Stacker to stack your shots for processing? They are free and very useful.

--
Best Regards, Rodger
Save Lives - Be an Organ or Stem Cell Donor.
Quaecumque vera

Photoshop question: Adding a lamp to an existing image

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