Is the Oly 75mm rubbish at sport photography and/or distant subjects?

whumber · Aug 25, 2022

drj3 said:
whumber said:

Not the fastest focusing lens, but I've never had any major issue with moving subjects. This was shot wide open with an E-M1iii.

Click to expand...

The OM1 can outperform the E-M1s when subject detection works. If subject detection does not work, the E-M1s CAF can outperform the OM1 using focus points. It will depend on the target and how quickly and consistently it moves.

While I can't say my experience with the OM-1 and E-M1iii matches what you're saying here, looking through my catalogue is looks like I haven't really stress tested the OM-1 + 75 1.8 so maybe that combo is some kind of outlier. I'll try to give it a test this evening.

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

drj3 said:
It is probably not the lens. CAF on the OM1 using the focus points is different from the E-M1s. If the OM1 is unable to confirm focus within the focus point, it appears to expand the focus area until it finds detail on which it can focus. I think it had problems with confirming focus with the tennis shots, so it found the very detailed fence behind the target. The focus confirmation will still be on the original focus point, even though it may be in poor focus.

SAF does not do this with the OM1, it keeps the focus within the focus boxes or simply fails to focus. With little detail in the focus box, SAF will focus more accurately with the OM1.

The OM1 is the different than the E-M1s where CAF was very selective within the focus box and the E-M1s stop focusing if they cannot confirm focus within the focus box. This allows you to move the focus box around until the camera can find sufficient detail to focus within the box.

I definitely assumed in first instance that it had to do with the body, not the lens

And I absolutely will try with S-AF as soon as I'm given the occasion.

The thing that continues to puzzle me however - and I'm surprised I seem to be the only one puzzled so far to be honest - is that I've had great results with 5 other lenses using the same settings during the same shooting session.

Doesn't that automatically rule out the body?

Or should I assume that this specific lens needs some specific settings, when other lenses don't?

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

techie takes pics said:
So you missed focus a couple of times.

My thoughts: The 75 is ok for sports but it does not zoom (I'm sure you have worked that out yourself). So if you are at the right distance, it's pretty good.

There are 2 reasons I'd use the 75 for sports: Need for background separation or very low light.
Otherwise, a 40-150 f2.8 is simply the best.

As for missing focus, don't worry. That's why the camera has 999 settings for it - because there is no one setting to get it right.
For sports I use a single center point, sometimes 3x3 and sometimes 5. I will be the one responsible for picking out the subject, not the camera. C-AF and pro-capture-L are your friends here.

I didn't miss focus "a couple of times". I missed focus 95% of the time when using the 75mm, but almost never when using all other lenses.

Again, I'm fully aware that settings matter, but why such a HUGE discrepancy in results when using the 75mm?

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

Skeeterbytes said:
NiX82 said:

RSTP14 said:

Nobody asked the obvious questions. What were your AF settings? C-AF, S-AF? Then what? What AF Target? What AF priority? What subject detection? What AF Sensitivity Etc. There are so many possible AF settings issues that it is near impossible to tell if it is a lens issue or not without the info. What is was shutter priority? It's easy to get lost in settings that you forgot about. Did you get AF confirmation on the subject? Did you place the AF Target on the subject or used a full screen size Target then shoot and prey? These are all possible reasons and more.

Click to expand...

Hello Roger.

I believe I provided most of the answers to your list in my original (albeit lenghty) post, but to be completely thorough:

C-AF only.

AF Target: single point or cross.

No subject detection; but face and eye detection ON.

AF Sensitivity: normal setting (I don't believe I changed that). I didn't shoot in burst mode, to be clear.

Aperture priority; not Shutter priority. Shots taken wide open. Several pics are at 1/8000s so I'm guessing speed isn't the issue.

Yes, AF confirmation on subject (i.e. green box).

AF Target on the subject at all times.

I'm obviously aware that these settings matter, but I remind that I kept the same settings for all lenses, and it's only the 75mm that gave me atrocious results. I forgot to list the 60mm macro in the list, and it gave me grear results too.

If I were to post the whole series of missed pics, it would be so bad that you would want to sell all your gear, not just me. It's that bad.

However, I remind that this only occurs with distant subjets, even immobile ones.

Click to expand...

I'll suggest it's a settings issue because the little 75 can shoot sports, even if it's not as fast on its metaphorical feet as a Pro lens.

Our cameras LOVE fencing and netting, and it's important to not have AF jump from subject, so perhaps dial in a minus value for AF sensitivity, switch release priority off, make a custom AF pattern specific to the sport, consider setting a focus limit.

I don't use face-eye for action, believing it slows responsiveness, but don't have verification that's the case for the OM-1. I also don't think I've used the 75 for sports on the OM-1 yet, but have on several other cameras, usually in light too poor for my Pro teles.

Even the mostly hapless GM5 can manage

Also check focus position in Workspace to learn more about focusing behavior. Very handy tool, I've found.

Good luck!

Rick

Hey Rick,

Thank you your reply.

I was focused on a single player, barely moving around (we're not great tennis players O

), sometimes not moving at all, yet the focus would be often completely thrown off when using the 75mm.

I don't think the fence ever tried to jump in front of the players, so I'm really not sure why the camera thought it had to focus there when it was set to focus on a human body (the only one there), with Eye and Face detect.

Skeeterbytes · Aug 25, 2022

whumber said:
While I can't say my experience with the OM-1 and E-M1iii matches what you're saying here, looking through my catalogue is looks like I haven't really stress tested the OM-1 + 75 1.8 so maybe that combo is some kind of outlier. I'll try to give it a test this evening.

Have done action in crap light with the 45/1.2, and the OM-1 crushes the task. Will get the 75 on it eventually but can't envision it underperforming the E-M1 series.

It does a decent job with the 150/2.0, even though focus speed has never been a forte with that lens.

Cheers,

Rick

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

Tim Reidy Productions said:
I know you can shoot at f1.8 but did it fail at f8, give your subject a chance. outdoors if you narrow that aperture more will be in focus

I confess I didn't try at f8, and I definitely should have... but if it worked flawlessly with the 45mm f1.2 at f1.2 and with the 20mm f1.4 at f1.4, is it wrong to assume it should have worked with the 75mm f1.8 at f1.8 as well?

This is why I'm inquiring about this specific lens with the OM-1, and I'm questioning whether this behavior is to be expected, or if maybe it's just faulty...

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

whumber said:
Not the fastest focusing lens, but I've never had any major issue with moving subjects. This was shot wide open with an E-M1iii.

This seems flawless to me, and I genuinely do not believe I would have been able to achieve the same result with my 75mm and OM-1, seen how it behaved with immensely less mobile tennis players...

Beautiful dog by the way!

AlwaysLearning4 · Aug 25, 2022

Your experience with the 75 roughly mirrors mine. Very poor lens for sports though there might be some nuance I’m missing because I’ve been surprised by it once or twice. Great lens for portraits though.

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

AlwaysLearning4 said:
Your experience with the 75 roughly mirrors mine. Very poor lens for sports though there might be some nuance I’m missing because I’ve been surprised by it once or twice. Great lens for portraits though.

That's good to know, thank you!

Skeeterbytes · Aug 25, 2022

NiX82 said:
Hey Rick,

Thank you your reply.

I was focused on a single player, barely moving around (we're not great tennis players O), sometimes not moving at all, yet the focus would be often completely thrown off when using the 75mm.

I don't think the fence ever tried to jump in front of the players, so I'm really not sure why the camera thought it had to focus there when it was set to focus on a human body (the only one there), with Eye and Face detect.

I'll circle back to face and eye, which I observe on occasion "finding" faces in trees and other seemingly random patterns. Try shutting it off and perhaps making a custom focus pattern suitable for tennis.

We know the lens can shoot sports, just not why the combo isn't working for you.

Heaven knows, there are dozens of AF settings and options to sift through, many we haven't mentioned yet.

Cheers,

Rick

JosephScha · Aug 25, 2022

The first shot is clearly focused on the fence, not on the person. I don't think you can blame the lens for that.

drj3 · Aug 25, 2022

NiX82 said:
drj3 said:

It is probably not the lens. CAF on the OM1 using the focus points is different from the E-M1s. If the OM1 is unable to confirm focus within the focus point, it appears to expand the focus area until it finds detail on which it can focus. I think it had problems with confirming focus with the tennis shots, so it found the very detailed fence behind the target. The focus confirmation will still be on the original focus point, even though it may be in poor focus.

SAF does not do this with the OM1, it keeps the focus within the focus boxes or simply fails to focus. With little detail in the focus box, SAF will focus more accurately with the OM1.

The OM1 is the different than the E-M1s where CAF was very selective within the focus box and the E-M1s stop focusing if they cannot confirm focus within the focus box. This allows you to move the focus box around until the camera can find sufficient detail to focus within the box.

Click to expand...

I definitely assumed in first instance that it had to do with the body, not the lens

And I absolutely will try with S-AF as soon as I'm given the occasion.

The thing that continues to puzzle me however - and I'm surprised I seem to be the only one puzzled so far to be honest - is that I've had great results with 5 other lenses using the same settings during the same shooting session.

Doesn't that automatically rule out the body?

Or should I assume that this specific lens needs some specific settings, when other lenses don't?

Different lenses have different fields of view. you have different things included in the focus box and unless you are comparing them in the same situation, different detail around the target can all result in differences. I will post an example of the OM1 using the small focus box and problems with CAF focus. The result would have been different if the focus box area had included greater detail.

CruzPhoto · Aug 25, 2022

Might be something with this particular copy of the 75mm F1.8. While I do think it is a touch slower than PRO primes, it should still keep up to some extent.

Tim Reidy Productions · Aug 25, 2022

last month I had another lens that failed when given an interesting background with lots of back focussing,

usually it is the camera first, grabbing something else.

hopefully you can get the lens to work for you.

I used my 60mm prime for sports with good results.

my opinion was just about where you don't have a big focus window to make sure the lens is sharp when testing.

Regor250 · Aug 25, 2022

NiX82 said:
RSTP14 said:

Nobody asked the obvious questions. What were your AF settings? C-AF, S-AF? Then what? What AF Target? What AF priority? What subject detection? What AF Sensitivity Etc. There are so many possible AF settings issues that it is near impossible to tell if it is a lens issue or not without the info. What is was shutter priority? It's easy to get lost in settings that you forgot about. Did you get AF confirmation on the subject? Did you place the AF Target on the subject or used a full screen size Target then shoot and prey? These are all possible reasons and more.

Click to expand...

Hello Roger.

I believe I provided most of the answers to your list in my original (albeit lenghty) post, but to be completely thorough:

C-AF only. S

AF Target: single point or cross.

No subject detection; but face and eye detection ON.

AF Sensitivity: normal setting (I don't believe I changed that). I didn't shoot in burst mode, to be clear.

Aperture priority; not Shutter priority. Shots taken wide open. Several pics are at 1/8000s so I'm guessing speed isn't the issue.

Yes, AF confirmation on subject (i.e. green box).

AF Target on the subject at all times.

I'm obviously aware that these settings matter, but I remind that I kept the same settings for all lenses, and it's only the 75mm that gave me atrocious results. I forgot to list the 60mm macro in the list, and it gave me grear results too.

If I were to post the whole series of missed pics, it would be so bad that you would want to sell all your gear, not just me. It's that bad.

However, I remind that this only occurs with distant subjets, even immobile ones.

Great, and what is your "Face and Eye AF button priority" set to? This could make a difference. It isn't impossible that your 75mm back focuses. You need to make a proper test comparing S-AF to C-AF on a fixed target to rule that out.

--
Roger

Bassam Guy · Aug 25, 2022

Just took these Saturday. C-AF+Tr and some of these even when all focus points were enabled on a mediocre E-M5 III.

Possibly because horses tend to be a larger focus target than people? Although they move pretty fast.

You had more light than I. These evening Polo shots were at 1/1000, f1.8 & 2.0 - exposures that forgive little DOF and are on the low edge of acceptable SS for polo.

I can't see how the first two, at least, wouldn't focus better unless you had a small focus point that was way off. Consider trying a single or small centered focus pattern with or without tracking (it doesn't look like they were moving very fast). Or, maybe turning off release priority for C-AF (although mine is on

)

IDK? Something seems odd to me.

Idea! Run O. WOrkspace and click the button to show where the focus point was. I bet it was not where you expected.

adammaniam · Aug 25, 2022

NiX82 said:
Hello all!

I'm currently on holidays with the family, and decided to try out taking pics of the brothers in law playing tennis.

I used the OM-1 (firmware 1.2) and tried out the 150-400mm, the 12-100, the 45mm f1.2, the 20mm f1.4. Got a very good hit rate, happy with those. Took pictures in Aperture priority, C-AF with Face and Eye detection activated, used single point or cross, kept the same settings for all lenses.

But then I took out the 75mm f1.8, and all hell broke loose.

I'm looking at my pics as I type this, and I genuinely think I have a hit rate of less than 5% when the subject is more than 3 to 5 meters away.

Here are some examples:

On most, if not all, pics, this combo (OM-1/75mm) would focus on the fence rather than the subject. I'm talking about more than 50 pictures here.

It gets a little better as the subject gets closer, but still not sharp at all.

And it's absolutely fine - great actually - when used solely for portraits.

And as I continue browsing through my pics taken with combo, I notice other fairly simple pics to take (in theory), are missed as well.

focus seems to be on the pavement

focus seems to be on the boats

Going back to the tennis session, had I only used the 75mm, I would have assumed it was a user error, as I usually do. But like I said, I have a (surprisingly) good hit rate with all other lenses.

Is this to be expected with this lens? Have others experienced this? Or should I just send it back (it's still under warranty) as this is obviously an abnormal behavior?

I look forward to your replies, thank you!

For what it's worth, I'm having the same issues. Using the exact same settings, I get a great hit rate with my 40-150 2.8 but lots of out of focus shots with my 75mm F1.8. It's a shame because it renders so nicely.

I finally decided to use small animal detect + SH2 + CAF (for a kids football game) and it seemed to work better.

mtnroads · Aug 25, 2022

I have used it for kids soccer and HS track practice on an E-M1 Mk 1 with no issues. S-AF focus.

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

RSTP14 said:
NiX82 said:

RSTP14 said:

Nobody asked the obvious questions. What were your AF settings? C-AF, S-AF? Then what? What AF Target? What AF priority? What subject detection? What AF Sensitivity Etc. There are so many possible AF settings issues that it is near impossible to tell if it is a lens issue or not without the info. What is was shutter priority? It's easy to get lost in settings that you forgot about. Did you get AF confirmation on the subject? Did you place the AF Target on the subject or used a full screen size Target then shoot and prey? These are all possible reasons and more.

Click to expand...

Hello Roger.

I believe I provided most of the answers to your list in my original (albeit lenghty) post, but to be completely thorough:

C-AF only. S

AF Target: single point or cross.

No subject detection; but face and eye detection ON.

AF Sensitivity: normal setting (I don't believe I changed that). I didn't shoot in burst mode, to be clear.

Aperture priority; not Shutter priority. Shots taken wide open. Several pics are at 1/8000s so I'm guessing speed isn't the issue.

Yes, AF confirmation on subject (i.e. green box).

AF Target on the subject at all times.

I'm obviously aware that these settings matter, but I remind that I kept the same settings for all lenses, and it's only the 75mm that gave me atrocious results. I forgot to list the 60mm macro in the list, and it gave me grear results too.

If I were to post the whole series of missed pics, it would be so bad that you would want to sell all your gear, not just me. It's that bad.

However, I remind that this only occurs with distant subjets, even immobile ones.

Click to expand...

Great, and what is your "Face and Eye AF button priority" set to? This could make a difference. It isn't impossible that your 75mm back focuses. You need to make a proper test comparing S-AF to C-AF on a fixed target to rule that out.

NiX82 · Aug 25, 2022

CruzPhoto said:
Might be something with this particular copy of the 75mm F1.8. While I do think it is a touch slower than PRO primes, it should still keep up to some extent.

I obviously don't expect it to perform as well as lenses twice its price (having said that, the 60mm actually does...), but the results I got were "out of this world" bad. Even on static subjects...

Like i said though, absolutely great for portraits! This only occurs when the subject is somewhat distant, for whatever reason reason...

Is the Oly 75mm rubbish at sport photography and/or distant subjects?

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