Do you have aphantasia?

Guy Parsons said:

It was many years before I learned that some people "see" the apple in their head, others like me understand what an apple is and have some sort of descriptive logic available to describe it.

If I think "chair" I don't see a chair but have some sort of plan or description in my brain that makes up what a chair is.

If I think "Sydney Opera House" I have some sort of abstract curvy shape idea in my mind and could probably describe the building and surrounds, but only because it's all mapped out in my brain and is not by any means a complete picture of the building that I can "see" inside my head.

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That's similar to my experience. It's as though the object I wish to recall is hidden behind a veil, I can almost but not quite see it. For instance I can draw an object in good detail but in my minds eye its vague.

Regarding photography I know what I wish to take but its more of - I'll know when I see it - concept. The consequence of which I go out & tour round & end up coming back with nothing. Not because there are no beautiful views or scenes but the ones I see just don't add up sufficiently to the nebulous image I have in mind.

This is for me the first time I hear the word "aphantasia" :-D

But I always knew there are people that can memorize every detail as a visual picture. They can memorize written text as a picture, music, faces and names that belong to that face etc. And there are those that cannot do that all. And the vast majority of people, that is somewhere in between. Like myself.

I think that photographers with hyperphantasia are very likely to create pictures that are works of art. Since their minds can visualize images that cannot exist in reality. They are talented artists.

And photographers with aphantasia are very likely to create technically perfect documentary pictures. Sharp edge to edge, well exposed, well composed etc, but artistically irrelevant. They are the technicians.

Most photographers are I believe, somewhere in between - well, more or less "normal".

cba_melbourne said:

This is for me the first time I hear the word "aphantasia" :-D

But I always knew there are people that can memorize every detail as a visual picture. They can memorize written text as a picture, music, faces and names that belong to that face etc. And there are those that cannot do that all. And the vast majority of people, that is somewhere in between. Like myself.

I think that photographers with hyperphantasia are very likely to create pictures that are works of art. Since their minds can visualize images that cannot exist in reality. They are talented artists.

And photographers with aphantasia are very likely to create technically perfect documentary pictures. Sharp edge to edge, well exposed, well composed etc, but artistically irrelevant. They are the technicians.

Most photographers are I believe, somewhere in between - well, more or less "normal".

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Interesting take I believe the ability to remember exactly what you see is called eidetic memory.

Personally, I feel I am better at the artistic side of things, but not very good at nailing all the technical bits; I often fail to notice when I don't quite nail focus. You can have a look for yourself on my Flickr.

I have aphantasia.

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons said:

Brains are interesting things.

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Yup, it's on my Christmas list to get one that works.

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On the matter of brains I need to confess that for many hears I have been consuming gingko biloba daily. (Adult daughter is a naturopath and herbalist and experimented on me to some extent when she lived at home and was in training). Evidently it's not for everyone and there are precautions. Its effect is to increase blood flow to peripheral blood vessels and in the brain that makes it work better and presumably helps clear away some of the toxic junk that occurs normally as thinking processes happen.

If I stop taking it then my aged brain starts to feel "dull" and nothing much is going on in there after about 2 days. Take the tablets again and within half a day the brain is firing on all cylinders again and if I "look" into my brain I find maybe about 3 projects or whatever are being thought about in parallel, it gets busy in there.

Most times when faced with some construction problem (like, how do I do this?) I simply leave it and then sleep on it. Maybe in the morning the solution is there, or leave it for a few days and suddenly at any moment a new method or better way pops up in my head.

I try not to annoy my brain too much and simply just let it get on with its thinking job in the background.

Revenant said:

A dumb question maybe, but does this condition also affect your ability to dream visually?

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this is quite interesting: 25 Amazing Facts About Dreams | KickassFacts.com see #11

David Fell said:

Revenant said:

A dumb question maybe, but does this condition also affect your ability to dream visually?

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this is quite interesting: 25 Amazing Facts About Dreams | KickassFacts.com see #11

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I was in my late 30s when I remembered my first dream ever. Up until then, I thought I don't dream. It is still very rare for me to remember a dream, and I am not aware of ever having had a nightmare.

Its a fascinating topic and one I have often mused about over my life as I have the ability to visualise in detail things I am about to do, be it building something or just going thru a process and whilst I don't have a true eidetic memory I can if pushed pull up a page in my mind that I have read previously including the page number and then reread the relevant text that I needed to know but this ability is erratic and doesn't always come when required but I am sure its something that can be exercised to improve.

As has been said the brain is an amazing machine but its not a computer with instant playback, lots of things determine how good it performs and I beleive some of these things are learned protocols and others natural ability but I beleive all can be practised for to improve or gain new skills in a healthy brain

jalywol said:

This is fascinating.

I'm on the opposite end of the scale.

Also, the more familiar I am with an object, the more likely I am to be able to do a visualization of a complete, full color, full detail, 3D rotation of it. Interestingly enough, if I am trying to visualize something that currently does not exist but that I may want to build (like a table), I have to generate real world measurements first, based on existing objects, before I can do an accurate internal visualization.

As to faces, I can't remember faces worth bupkis. When I was teaching, the only way I could remember a student's face and name was if they handed me a paper with their name written on it while I was actually looking right at them at the same time. It took me the entire first month of the term to get everyone straight, and as soon as the term was over >POOF< my brain sent that image data to its own circular file. It hasn't gotten worse as I have aged, fortunately, so I think it's just a bit of crossed wiring in there somewhere. But, inanimate objects? I'm good!

Brains are interesting things.

-J

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I had to laugh. I used to teach. Same problems with faces.

Adrian Harris said:

ad to laugh. I used to teach. Same problems with faces.

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Oh my YES. Even people on my own street, if I run into them somewhere else chances are near zero that I'd recognize them. Embarrassing as hell, one sort has to develop methods to disguise the lack of recognition.

What a wonderful subject. It is slightly different for me. Diagnosed as severe autistic I am. When I step out of the house, the flood of imagery starts and my camera is my weapon against the overflow. And returning home, I have gathered enough to keep my head happy forming new worlds with them, vivid they are, the objects move and transform, people speak and no sound ever stops. Long ago I have started to refuse to take in too much or to remember everything. Words are restrictive, movement form color sound, manipulated form endless visualisations and I can watch them all. It all communicates, something I seem not to be able to do at all. I love it very much, since I have stopped to ache at all about it. It is the stream of my life.

JoanOfMay said:

What a wonderful subject. It is slightly different for me. Diagnosed as severe autistic I am. When I step out of the house, the flood of imagery starts and my camera is my weapon against the overflow. And returning home, I have gathered enough to keep my head happy forming new worlds with them, vivid they are, the objects move and transform, people speak and no sound ever stops. Long ago I have started to refuse to take in too much or to remember everything. Words are restrictive, movement form color sound, manipulated form endless visualisations and I can watch them all. It all communicates, something I seem not to be able to do at all. I love it very much, since I have stopped to ache at all about it. It is the stream of my life.

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Interesting, thank you for sharing.

JoanOfMay said:

What a wonderful subject. It is slightly different for me. Diagnosed as severe autistic I am. When I step out of the house, the flood of imagery starts and my camera is my weapon against the overflow. And returning home, I have gathered enough to keep my head happy forming new worlds with them, vivid they are, the objects move and transform, people speak and no sound ever stops. Long ago I have started to refuse to take in too much or to remember everything. Words are restrictive, movement form color sound, manipulated form endless visualisations and I can watch them all. It all communicates, something I seem not to be able to do at all. I love it very much, since I have stopped to ache at all about it. It is the stream of my life.

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Interesting to hear how you manage it. Apparently Aphantasia and Autism do frequently co-occur.

I'm your classic hypervisualizer. While I was reading your apple example I was following right along, picturing the classic schoolroom cartoon red apple, and then real apples by type (Red Delicious, Fuji, Macintosh, Granny Smith), then the little wild apples on the wild apple tree in the neighborhood that I love to photograph, then the green apples in Magritte paintings, and on and on. Just like a slideshow in my head.

i've been this way all my life. There's no explanation for it. On the other hand, I have tremendous difficulty with any kind of math beyond arithmetic and very basic algebra, and I literally have to look at my hands and make a gesture like I am holding a pen to reliably tell left from right. The human brain is a very weird thing.

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Instagram: @yardcoyote

yardcoyote said:

.....I literally have to look at my hands and make a gesture like I am holding a pen to reliably tell left from right. The human brain is a very weird thing.

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It's weird and adaptable. Years back when driving in USA on the wrong side of the road as far as I am concerned, my wife used to say "turn left at the next corner" and sure enough I'd prepare to turn right instead. My brain had flipped over to accommodate the driving conditions it seems. So she had to point and say "go thataway next corner" then I managed to get to the correct destination.

Another time after 6 weeks of driving in USA then coming home to Oz it was difficult when driving on suburban roads, it felt wrong. But driving on a multi lane freeway was different, it felt right. After a week or so at home the brain settled down to left is left and right is right.

I saw some doco once where they fitted someone with an optical attachment that inverted the world for them, after some time being totally uncomfortable they found the brain sorted it out and the world became the right way up, until they took the device off then the brain had to re-sort itself out about which way was up.

I have nightmares about trying to drive on the other side of the road. I doubt I would ever be brave enough to try it. i suppose if I was moving permanently I could try to relearn how to drive from scratch (lots of lessons and off street practice) but I could never switch back and forth.

yardcoyote said:

I have nightmares about trying to drive on the other side of the road. I doubt I would ever be brave enough to try it. i suppose if I was moving permanently I could try to relearn how to drive from scratch (lots of lessons and off street practice) but I could never switch back and forth.

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After driving in Europe, then USA a few times I generally find no problem to get in a car. The worst place is shopping mall carparks where there's usually no suitable lines or signs, there's moments of confusion there.

The very worst thing about swapping countries is being a pedestrian. Quite a few times I have made logical mistakes about crossing the road and get a scare. I see a car coming but my brain from habit interprets that as being a car on the other side of the road so it is safe to step out a bit. NO. It was on my side of the road and is coming at me. Scary. But back in the car again and the driving is natural no matter which side of the road.

So I'm safe as a pedestrian at home but not when in USA or Europe.

Guy Parsons said:

yardcoyote said:

I have nightmares about trying to drive on the other side of the road. I doubt I would ever be brave enough to try it. i suppose if I was moving permanently I could try to relearn how to drive from scratch (lots of lessons and off street practice) but I could never switch back and forth.

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After driving in Europe, then USA a few times I generally find no problem to get in a car. The worst place is shopping mall carparks where there's usually no suitable lines or signs, there's moments of confusion there.

The very worst thing about swapping countries is being a pedestrian. Quite a few times I have made logical mistakes about crossing the road and get a scare. I see a car coming but my brain from habit interprets that as being a car on the other side of the road so it is safe to step out a bit. NO. It was on my side of the road and is coming at me. Scary. But back in the car again and the driving is natural no matter which side of the road.

So I'm safe as a pedestrian at home but not when in USA or Europe.

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Lots of countries where they drive on the correct side( ) of the highway where you would be 'at home' crossing the road

https://www.worlddata.info/left-hand-traffic.php

Like you I don't in the main have an issue driving on the right-hand side. But there is an adjustment period.....more so if I take my own car abroad. Hiring a car, I find the adjustment period is very short and surmise that is due the brain accommodating that that the controls are swapped and 'spatial feeling' is the opposite.

PS only in Europe on the right for me.... France, Spain, Germany, Portugal and Italy if I recall. As for the driving behaviours, well the most interesting was Italy.......some if them drove like they had a "death wish" ~ completely bonkers. But that is whole other matter :lol:

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Living life a slice at a time
http://www.1stdesignit.co.uk/350d/burnup2.gif

Oh lawdy...methinks my mind is TOO visual, I sometimes have fun when walking about, making up imagery and have to stop myself.

Ha.

But thanks for mentioning this, intriguing.

Wondering, do you remember faces or names more, or is this irrelevant.

I forget names in a minute but remember faces. Judt thinking this may be part of the visual brain processing.

Do most people visually remember places from their past?

I remember images of places / rooms I lived, studied, worked, don't most people?

--
Wishing You Good Light.

jxh said:

Interesting discussion. Hadn't rally thought about it before. I know that my wife when trying to find something goes 'looking for it' in her mind visualizing different places and hopefully 'seeing' it in one of those places. Her subconscious remembers it but she needs to go through this exercise to remember where it is.
I have a very poor memory for faces, I would make a terrible detective.
This brings up something I've noticed that when I'm relaxing, getting close to sleep, I will suddenly have a detailed image of a room or a place that I've never been, sometimes I can even look through the doors, and then, within seconds the image is gone. It's not vague like a dream... for a few seconds it's very real.
Cool discussion.

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Yes, looking for things I do retrace my steps visually. Then use logic.

And cannot remember names easily, until third or fourth time interacting, I remember faces.

Interesting this comes up now, about a week ago I remembered someone whom I used to work with. I remembered their face, could not remember their name.

--
Wishing You Good Light.

Guy Parsons said:

It was many years before I learned that some people "see" the apple in their head, others like me understand what an apple is and have some sort of descriptive logic available to describe it.

If I think "chair" I don't see a chair but have some sort of plan or description in my brain that makes up what a chair is.

If I think "Sydney Opera House" I have some sort of abstract curvy shape idea in my mind and could probably describe the building and surrounds, but only because it's all mapped out in my brain and is not by any means a complete picture of the building that I can "see" inside my head.

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just curious,

can you feel an imaginary apple in your hands ?
can you 'experience' the cutting of an apple with a knife ?
can you vividly recall the taste of an apple or the texture of it as your teeth break the skin and you take a bite ?

Peter