Appalling (Amazon) shipping -> risk of internal damage?

joslocum · Aug 16, 2022

I received a shipment from Amazon today.

All three items were in their own boxes but all three items where shipped in one of those white thin plastic bags with no protection.

All three items inside were crushed like an elephant stepped on them.

These items clearly should have been shipped in a box. And even when Amazon boxes items they usually just toss in two air pillows and call it a day.

I get that they're trying to move a lot of stuff on a daily basis but there must be some standard of packaging somewhere.

Michael Fryd · Aug 16, 2022

Autonerd said:
Reading the replies, I think you could have a little to worry about -- I am pretty sure they do shipping torture tests, but the ones I've seen had products in tightly-packed cartons. The problem, as you noticed, is free space and secondary collisions: The outer box hits something, and then the camera hits the side of the box. That's what packing material is supposed to prevent.

That said, the packing is pretty robust, as are the cameras themselves. I've been knocking my a6000 around for six or so years and it still works just fine.

The problem I'd be concerned about is that Amazon would send a replacement that wasn't packed any better. It's a big company -- not like B&H where the customer service person can walk over to the shipping department and say, "Hey, Bob, pack this one properly, willya?"

If the camera works, it's probably fine, and I'd keep it -- it's been a hell of a season for electronics. I recently ordered Shure headphones from Amazon -- went through four pairs and *all* were broken (three with the same problem) and I've had to send it for warranty repair... at my expense for shipping! (Amazon has a limit on how many exchanges they'll do.) A friend who runs a hobby shop has said they've been plagued by bad DCC decoders. If your camera is working, that's a win!

Aaron

It's a crop shoot.

I ordered an SD card from Amazon. It came in a large box full of packing pillows.

I've ordered things from B&H that rattled around loose in a large box.

To be fair, while I occasionally get deliveries from both that are loosely packaged, most deliveries come with ample packing material.

With Amazon, B&H, or almost any other big retailer, sometimes things get packed with care, and sometimes not so much.

By the way, B&H has multiple locations. In addition to their NY Superstore, they have a warehouse in New Jersey. It would not surprise me if they had additional locations. Nor would it surprise me if they had customer service people who work from home. With B&H, there is no guarantee that a customer service person can simply get up and walk over to the shipping department.

Autonerd · Aug 16, 2022

Michael Fryd said:
It's a crop shoot.

And he's talking about an APS-C camera! I see what you did there!

Aaron

Aberaeron · Aug 16, 2022

joslocum said:
I received a shipment from Amazon today.

All three items were in their own boxes but all three items where shipped in one of those white thin plastic bags with no protection.

All three items inside were crushed like an elephant stepped on them.

These items clearly should have been shipped in a box. And even when Amazon boxes items they usually just toss in two air pillows and call it a day.

I get that they're trying to move a lot of stuff on a daily basis but there must be some standard of packaging somewhere.

I don’t recall ever having a poorly packaged delivery from them and I’ve been a regular customer since year 2000. It could be a regional thing, because I’m in the UK and the vast majority of my deliveries come from one of their several UK warehouses.

jlina · Aug 16, 2022

I would send it back but if you call Amazon they might offer you some kind of discount. What was the manufacturer's warranty?

Being far better at shopping than photography I would agree with your point of view but send it back ASAP because they will check it over before they credit you that kind of money back it would really really be awful if it got damaged in shipping and then they said you did it so make sure you call them too.

If I possibly can I usually wait to order things till like the first week of October because around Christmas time they give you a 3-month return window

All Bushs Fault · Aug 17, 2022

Mark B. said:
All Bushs Fault said:

Amazon's packing is horrendous. I buy a huge amount of household items from Amazon but I will not buy major electronics from them, partly because of their sub-standard packing/handling but mostly to save the sales tax. I check with B&H on every electronics item I am considering.

I would open the box and shoot with the camera for week or so. If the camera does not perform perfectly, you can return it for a refund or replacement and you can send this picture.

Click to expand...

The OP has already had it "a few weeks" according to the post. If nothing's happened to it by now due to the packaging, it's much ado about nothing.

Obviously you missed my point. Let me repeat: Amazon packing is horrendous. I buy this kind of stuff from B&H. I recommend that everyone who can do so, do so.

If you want to pay hundreds in sales tax AND take a chance on poor packaging go right ahead.

Member said:
Member said:

Rossi46 said:

Hi all,
I received my new Sony A6400 a few weeks ago. These were hard to come by for a while, so I was very pleased with the delivery. The happiness did not last long unfortunately, when I discovered that the Amazon package was hardly 'filled up'. I guess the picture tells it all; the Sony box had all the opportunity to bounce all over the place due to this lack of filling.

I must say that the Sony box does not seem to have any damage at all. But still, with this kind of 'free play', It must have had a rough time.

Should I be worried over internal damage within the camera? Or are these manufacturer boxed designed in a way that they 'absorb' all the energy in case of bouncing and dropping and the camera stays safe?

Looking forward to your thoughts, because I can't decide if I want to keep the camera or return it.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

m100 · Aug 17, 2022

All Bushs Fault said:
Obviously you missed my point. Let me repeat: Amazon packing is horrendous. I buy this kind of stuff from B&H. I recommend that everyone who can do so, do so.

If you want to pay hundreds in sales tax AND take a chance on poor packaging go right ahead.

I save the bubble wrap from B&H and reuse it to ship out because they use good bubble wrap.

When I sell a camera it is packed with lots of bubble wrap. That is the way I like cameras packed when I buy them.

The last camera I bought was a M50II from Canon USA. The box was jammed packed with bubble wrap !

Smaug01 · Aug 17, 2022

> the camera's own packaging has some nice shock absorption means.

But yes, shame on Amazon; as some people would prefer to have the camera box in nice shape for possible later resale. Those people now buy from B&H or other reputable store.

Amazon has gotten to be like Walmart, where they don't treat their employees well. It shows in things like this, which costs the company business in the long run. But the employees don't care. They're paid hourly and pushed to do more all the time without any vested interest in the company or long-term employment.

I don't know why I don't learn, but I order a CD from Amazon once in awhile and at least 50% of the time, the jewel case is cracked because they just throw it in a padded envelope. I remember fondly the glory days of BMG, with their custom CD boxes...

--
-Jeremy
*********
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."
-Eric Hofer

Mackiesback · Aug 17, 2022

Rossi46 said:
Hi all,
I received my new Sony A6400 a few weeks ago. These were hard to come by for a while, so I was very pleased with the delivery. The happiness did not last long unfortunately, when I discovered that the Amazon package was hardly 'filled up'. I guess the picture tells it all; the Sony box had all the opportunity to bounce all over the place due to this lack of filling.

I must say that the Sony box does not seem to have any damage at all. But still, with this kind of 'free play', It must have had a rough time.

Should I be worried over internal damage within the camera? Or are these manufacturer boxed designed in a way that they 'absorb' all the energy in case of bouncing and dropping and the camera stays safe?

Looking forward to your thoughts, because I can't decide if I want to keep the camera or return it.

As suggested, I am sure your camera is fine, and yes, Amazon does this. I am sure their shipping actuaries would rather pay the 1 out of a 100 electronics loss than 100 times the packing materials costs. I love this picture. There is 1 useless piece of paper in there, its as if Amazon is saying, "no we didn't forget about packing materials, we are rich enough not to care".

I also find it interesting that people complain about shopping at a discount from the largest mass merchant warehouse operation in the world, and somehow expect the same level of care that they used to get from the local businesses that they shuttered by chasing price in the first place. Its a brave new world, thanks to Amazon shoppers. Enjoy your pricing.

joslocum · Aug 17, 2022

Suzatlarge said:
I think you have to do what you're comfortable with - and that may be just to return the camera.

In my opinion Sony's factory packaging of cameras and lenses is robust. In the absence of the Sony box being dented or dinged I would probably use the camera for a week or so before deciding whether to return it.

Of course if you keep it, be sure to register the camera with Sony to be sure you have the manufacturer's warranty. There's no evidence of shipping damage, so if it fails during the warranty period that should be covered. Hang on to the manufacturer's box if at all possible.

In June I ordered a Sigma lens and a B+W filter from Amazon. I made sure when placing the order, that it was sold by Amazon as well as shipped by Amazon. I had it sent to the Amazon hub counter in my nearby Whole Foods store. I was surprised and appalled when the guy handed me the package. They had slipped the lens and filter in their boxes - into a plastic bag. Not a padded bag. Not a box. Just a plastic bag that was wrapped loosely around the contents and sort of sealed.

I was so upset that I photographed the package before I opened it. I found the lens box and filter box to be undamaged except for a slight bit of wear at a corner. The Sigma packaging protected the lens very well and I saw no indications of tampering or damage to the interior of the box or the lens. I've been using the lens and have had no problems so I decided against returning it. Likewise the filter was fine. If the box had shown any dents the lens would have gone right back to Amazon.

After this experience, I do not intend to buy a camera or lens from Amazon again. Ever.

The package as delivered; contained the lens + the UV filter.

The lens survived its plastic bag trip But, never again, Amazon. Never again.

This is exactly the same bag that my three items (arrived crushed) was shipped in.

Apparently Amazon has become so used to items being returned that they created this bag.

What do I mean by this? If opened correctly per the instructions on the outside of the bag, you can reseal it for return.

If I had a camera lens shipped in this bag I would be sick.

Mark B. · Aug 17, 2022

All Bushs Fault said:
Mark B. said:

All Bushs Fault said:

Amazon's packing is horrendous. I buy a huge amount of household items from Amazon but I will not buy major electronics from them, partly because of their sub-standard packing/handling but mostly to save the sales tax. I check with B&H on every electronics item I am considering.

I would open the box and shoot with the camera for week or so. If the camera does not perform perfectly, you can return it for a refund or replacement and you can send this picture.

Click to expand...

The OP has already had it "a few weeks" according to the post. If nothing's happened to it by now due to the packaging, it's much ado about nothing.

Click to expand...

Obviously you missed my point. Let me repeat: Amazon packing is horrendous. I buy this kind of stuff from B&H. I recommend that everyone who can do so, do so.

If you want to pay hundreds in sales tax AND take a chance on poor packaging go right ahead.

My experience has been different than yours. I've yet to have to return something to Amazon. But I also don't do my photo gear shopping there either, opting instead to support a photo retailer. My point was simply that since the OP has already had it for several weeks there are a couple observations; 1, if there was any damage due to the way it was shipped it would have shown up by now, 2, Amazon here in the US has a 30 day return window so the OP is already very close to that if not past it. Why was it not returned right away if this was a concern? Complaining here on the forum does nothing.

And one more point, the OP hasn't even bothered to come back and follow up. Was there any actual damage? Was the package returned for a refund or replacement?

mfinley · Aug 17, 2022

The Sony box is not a shipping box, it's a product packaging box.

Sony doesn't ship their cameras to a retailer in just the product packaging box with a stamp on it, they ship the product packaging box inside another shipping box, protecting it much better than Amazon shipped this to you.

I would send it back, who wants to own something that expensive wondering when the damage will finally appear months or years down the road due to it being bounced around thousands of times while it was being shipped?

Michael Fryd · Aug 17, 2022

mfinley said:
The Sony box is not a shipping box, it's a product packaging box.

Sony doesn't ship their cameras to a retailer in just the product packaging box with a stamp on it, they ship the product packaging box inside another shipping box, protecting it much better than Amazon shipped this to you.

I would send it back, who wants to own something that expensive wondering when the damage will finally appear months or years down the road due to it being bounced around thousands of times while it was being shipped?

I assume that Sony packs multiple cameras into a larger cardboard box. If they are like typical manufacturers, those individual boxes just fit into the larger box, without space for any additional packaging.

When Apple ships an iMac from China to the USA, the nice Apple iMac box is enclosed in a tight fitting cardboard box, with no additional padding. it's the same for a laptop, Mac Mini, or Mac Studio.

The manufacturer's packaging really is designed to protect the product during shipping. The outer cardboard box is simply there to keep the fancy packaging clean, so it looks good in the customer's unboxing video.

If Amazon were to put the Sony box in a padded envelope, it likely would be better protected than how it ships from Sony.

Keep in mind that a big outer box, does provide additional protection, even if there is no additional internal padding. While the Sony box can bounce around inside the larger box, it won't get crushed, or banged by other boxes. The outer Amazon box provides protection against direct impact, and crushing.

.

The interesting issue here is that Amazon is weight limited, not space limited, on their shipping.

If they were space limited, they would be trying to avoid boxes that are bigger than necessary. The fact that they use boxes larger than needed strongly suggests they have lots of available space in their transport chain.

Mackiesback · Aug 17, 2022

Michael Fryd said:
mfinley said:

The Sony box is not a shipping box, it's a product packaging box.

Sony doesn't ship their cameras to a retailer in just the product packaging box with a stamp on it, they ship the product packaging box inside another shipping box, protecting it much better than Amazon shipped this to you.

I would send it back, who wants to own something that expensive wondering when the damage will finally appear months or years down the road due to it being bounced around thousands of times while it was being shipped?

Click to expand...

I assume that Sony packs multiple cameras into a larger cardboard box. If they are like typical manufacturers, those individual boxes just fit into the larger box, without space for any additional packaging.

When Apple ships an iMac from China to the USA, the nice Apple iMac box is enclosed in a tight fitting cardboard box, with no additional padding. it's the same for a laptop, Mac Mini, or Mac Studio.

The manufacturer's packaging really is designed to protect the product during shipping. The outer cardboard box is simply there to keep the fancy packaging clean, so it looks good in the customer's unboxing video.

If Amazon were to put the Sony box in a padded envelope, it likely would be better protected than how it ships from Sony.

Keep in mind that a big outer box, does provide additional protection, even if there is no additional internal padding. While the Sony box can bounce around inside the larger box, it won't get crushed, or banged by other boxes. The outer Amazon box provides protection against direct impact, and crushing.

.

The interesting issue here is that Amazon is weight limited, not space limited, on their shipping.

If they were space limited, they would be trying to avoid boxes that are bigger than necessary. The fact that they use boxes larger than needed strongly suggests they have lots of available space in their transport chain.

I think it can go either way. My product (books) ships from China in what are called international pallet cartons. Thicker cardboard to be sure, but no padding at all internally, because cases of product sealed to a pallet go through a much different journey than a box handled by UPS etc.

Many of my wholesale customers order case quantities to keep everything in these international cartons, but the reality is that we have heavy product, and if UPS handles it in any manner less than delicately, the product inside gets damaged. Sonys pallet cartons (I imagine they have them) probably have no additional padding, due to the nature in which pallets are handled, and they probably package their gear to that you could slap a label on the factory box and ship with no additional padding. All my Nikon gear is packaged that way from Nikon, except maybe the refurb stuff (from memory). I imagine Sony is the same. The box in the OPs picture looks pretty pristine, to be honest.

Ed B · Aug 17, 2022

Rossi46 said:
Hi all,
I received my new Sony A6400 a few weeks ago. These were hard to come by for a while, so I was very pleased with the delivery. The happiness did not last long unfortunately, when I discovered that the Amazon package was hardly 'filled up'. I guess the picture tells it all; the Sony box had all the opportunity to bounce all over the place due to this lack of filling.

I must say that the Sony box does not seem to have any damage at all. But still, with this kind of 'free play', It must have had a rough time.

Should I be worried over internal damage within the camera? Or are these manufacturer boxed designed in a way that they 'absorb' all the energy in case of bouncing and dropping and the camera stays safe?

Looking forward to your thoughts, because I can't decide if I want to keep the camera or return it.

I would never, never order a camera from Amazon, and this is one of the reasons why.

I did recently order a GPS from them, and it was "packed" the same way as your camera. I'm surprised a lot of items aren't damaged in shipment.

mfinley · Aug 17, 2022

Michael Fryd said:
I assume that Sony packs multiple cameras into a larger cardboard box. If they are like typical manufacturers, those individual boxes just fit into the larger box, without space for any additional packaging.

That's exactly the point. If they are snug they don't move violently through free space a thousand times during shipping.

You don't seem to understand the simple concept of padding within a shipping box. There is no padding needed in a shipping box if it is tightly packed and no internal boxes can move.

The OP's concerns are there is no padding in the shipping box.

Michael Fryd · Aug 17, 2022

Mackiesback said:
Michael Fryd said:

mfinley said:

The Sony box is not a shipping box, it's a product packaging box.

Sony doesn't ship their cameras to a retailer in just the product packaging box with a stamp on it, they ship the product packaging box inside another shipping box, protecting it much better than Amazon shipped this to you.

I would send it back, who wants to own something that expensive wondering when the damage will finally appear months or years down the road due to it being bounced around thousands of times while it was being shipped?

Click to expand...

I assume that Sony packs multiple cameras into a larger cardboard box. If they are like typical manufacturers, those individual boxes just fit into the larger box, without space for any additional packaging.

When Apple ships an iMac from China to the USA, the nice Apple iMac box is enclosed in a tight fitting cardboard box, with no additional padding. it's the same for a laptop, Mac Mini, or Mac Studio.

The manufacturer's packaging really is designed to protect the product during shipping. The outer cardboard box is simply there to keep the fancy packaging clean, so it looks good in the customer's unboxing video.

If Amazon were to put the Sony box in a padded envelope, it likely would be better protected than how it ships from Sony.

Keep in mind that a big outer box, does provide additional protection, even if there is no additional internal padding. While the Sony box can bounce around inside the larger box, it won't get crushed, or banged by other boxes. The outer Amazon box provides protection against direct impact, and crushing.

.

The interesting issue here is that Amazon is weight limited, not space limited, on their shipping.

If they were space limited, they would be trying to avoid boxes that are bigger than necessary. The fact that they use boxes larger than needed strongly suggests they have lots of available space in their transport chain.

Click to expand...

I think it can go either way. My product (books) ships from China in what are called international pallet cartons. Thicker cardboard to be sure, but no padding at all internally, because cases of product sealed to a pallet go through a much different journey than a box handled by UPS etc.

Many of my wholesale customers order case quantities to keep everything in these international cartons, but the reality is that we have heavy product, and if UPS handles it in any manner less than delicately, the product inside gets damaged. Sonys pallet cartons (I imagine they have them) probably have no additional padding, due to the nature in which pallets are handled, and they probably package their gear to that you could slap a label on the factory box and ship with no additional padding. All my Nikon gear is packaged that way from Nikon, except maybe the refurb stuff (from memory). I imagine Sony is the same. The box in the OPs picture looks pretty pristine, to be honest.

Apple also ships pallets of product to the USA. When it reaches the USA, the pallets are broken open, and the products are shipped individually to consumers.

I agree with you that it's those deliveries to smaller consumers that are likely to have the roughest handling. Yet, Apple adds only an outer cardboard box.

I had a family member who worked in logistics for a trucking company. TV's, cameras, electronics, and similar items are what they call "top freight". After the truck is loaded with the heavy stuff, the "top freight" is thrown on top, to fill up the space between the heavy crates and the top of the truck.

Michael Fryd · Aug 17, 2022

Ed B said:
Rossi46 said:

...

Click to expand...

I would never, never order a camera from Amazon, and this is one of the reasons why.

I did recently order a GPS from them, and it was "packed" the same way as your camera. I'm surprised a lot of items aren't damaged in shipment.

Yes, to those who have not looked into this, it is surprising that more stuff isn't damaged in transit.

Amazon is a very successful business. They are working very hard to maximize profits. If their packing and shipping methods were causing product damage, they would change those methods.

The fact that Amazon is willing to throw a factory packed camera into a large, otherwise empty, cardboard box, tells us very clearly, that Amazon believes that product is quite likely to arrive without damage.

Remember, Amazon has a generous return policy. If lapses in packaging were causing damage, they would know it. Furthermore, they have the software to tell them that a particular packer has a higher rate of returns.

The issue here is not one of items being damaged in shipment. it's one of customers not trusting the manufacturer's packaging.

Michael Fryd · Aug 17, 2022

mfinley said:
Michael Fryd said:

I assume that Sony packs multiple cameras into a larger cardboard box. If they are like typical manufacturers, those individual boxes just fit into the larger box, without space for any additional packaging.

Click to expand...

That's exactly the point. If they are snug they don't move violently through free space a thousand times during shipping.

You don't seem to understand the simple concept of padding within a shipping box. There is no padding needed in a shipping box if it is tightly packed and no internal boxes can move.

The OP's concerns are there is no padding in the shipping box.

Moving violently during shipping is only an issue if the manufacturer's packaging is not doing its job.

Imagine that you were packaging a camera to send it off for repair. If it were me, I would wrap that camera in bubble wrap and/or packing peanuts, and put it into a cardboard box. I really want that camera to survive shipping, so I would make sure there was adequate padding between the camera and the box. I just assume that the box will be dropped and tossed around during shipping.

I would not worry if my carefully packed box was placed in a larger, and otherwise empty, cardboard box. I know my packing job is good enough to handle my box being dropped. Sliding around inside another box isn't a problem.

.

Manufacturer's also pack their products with care. Except, rather than guessing as to how much padding is needed, they do actual research. They custom manufacture foam/cardboard/bubble wrap materials to protect the product. It turns out that if you do the research, and custom design the packing, you can get by with less padding than you or I would use.

Again, placing the manufacturer's box into a larger box isn't going to hurt the product. it's no worse than dropping the manufacturer's box onto the floor, and it's designed for that.

MoreCowbell · Aug 17, 2022

Because like almost everything else on DPR people write as if they are experts on the subject rather than just speculating or expressing an opinion

I have to wonder how many photography hobbyists responding or the photography professionals for that matter actually have any knowledge of logistics and packaging

--
https://www.castle-explorers.com

Appalling (Amazon) shipping -> risk of internal damage?

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