Is EF-M mount worth investing for a new user

Disdain

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I've had lots of various micro four thirds cameras and lenses these last few years. I sold them all to swap back to a bridge camera. However I do miss the fun of having different lenses and having a camera that I can make as versatile as I'd like. I quite fancy trying an APS-C sized sensor and would hope it will be an upgrade on previous cameras. I do value having a light package which is why I had m43.

Is the Canon EF-M still going strong?

Are there any good used older models worth a look? Ideally I want something cheap and lightweight. Viewfinder isn't massively important to me, but I did like a flip screen over a tilt screen, but not essential.
 
Just my 2 cents.

I first had orginal M, then M3 and then upgraded M6. While the M3 already black-out free shooting and better AF than M, the M6 was a good step up in all categorys but built quality. The M3 felt more rugged but this was of no importance for me.

Like you, I am a hobby photographer trying out things to improve the versatility of my gear. Usually I buy used at "bargain" prices to keep cost at a minimum and sell what I don't like.

I propose that you look for a used M6 Mk1 with a used 18-150mm as starter.

Using a TC is probably not really good with the relatively slow EF-M lenses and sounds interesting only on paper. Wildlife coverage is the weak spot of the EF-M-line.
M6 was also on the radar but quite pricey where I am at, even the Mark 1 almost retails slightly lower than a new Sony ZV-E10 (body only).
 
It sounds like you have your heart set on a specific sensor size more than any specific capabilities.

What camera are you using right now? What do you like about it and what do you dislike? What do you find limiting with your current gear that you are hoping to improve upon? Are there any types of photography that are a priority (wildlife, portraits, sports, landscapes, etc)?
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.
Those are both reasonably competent cameras, so that helps frame the discussion
The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)
G3X is 24-600mm f/2.8-5.6

FZ2500 is 24-480mm f/2.8-4.5

Proposed M3 kit is 29-320mm f/3.5-6.3

Adding the 1.7X teleconverter takes you to 544mm f/11

While the sensor is the M3 is bigger, the lenses are slower (darker). The sensor in the M3 was also a bit behind the times compared to the Sony sensors in your current cameras. Best case, you will see a one stop improvement in image quality over your current cameras. In other words, ISO 3200 will now look like ISO 1600. Worst case, there will be no perceptible improvement. The autofocus in the M3 also won't be a noticeable improvement over your current cameras.

If you were talking about the M6 II and an adapted EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS L II, that would be a massive improvement over your current gear in all regards. But that kit is eight times the cost of the M3 kit. If you want a significant improvement in low light capabilities, you would need to add a lens like the EF-M 22mm f/2.0 or 32mm f/1.4.

The $400 cost of the M3 kit is relatively inexpensive if you just want to play around with some different gear. Just don't expect any massive performance improvements. As a low cost alternative, I would maybe suggest finding an EOS M100 and EF-M 22mm f/2.0 lens. This would give you much better AF and low light capabilities compared to your current gear. It would complement your current cameras instead of roughly duplicating your current cameras.
 
It sounds like you have your heart set on a specific sensor size more than any specific capabilities.

What camera are you using right now? What do you like about it and what do you dislike? What do you find limiting with your current gear that you are hoping to improve upon? Are there any types of photography that are a priority (wildlife, portraits, sports, landscapes, etc)?
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.
Those are both reasonably competent cameras, so that helps frame the discussion
The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)
G3X is 24-600mm f/2.8-5.6

FZ2500 is 24-480mm f/2.8-4.5

Proposed M3 kit is 29-320mm f/3.5-6.3

Adding the 1.7X teleconverter takes you to 544mm f/11

While the sensor is the M3 is bigger, the lenses are slower (darker). The sensor in the M3 was also a bit behind the times compared to the Sony sensors in your current cameras. Best case, you will see a one stop improvement in image quality over your current cameras. In other words, ISO 3200 will now look like ISO 1600. Worst case, there will be no perceptible improvement. The autofocus in the M3 also won't be a noticeable improvement over your current cameras.

If you were talking about the M6 II and an adapted EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS L II, that would be a massive improvement over your current gear in all regards. But that kit is eight times the cost of the M3 kit. If you want a significant improvement in low light capabilities, you would need to add a lens like the EF-M 22mm f/2.0 or 32mm f/1.4.

The $400 cost of the M3 kit is relatively inexpensive if you just want to play around with some different gear. Just don't expect any massive performance improvements. As a low cost alternative, I would maybe suggest finding an EOS M100 and EF-M 22mm f/2.0 lens. This would give you much better AF and low light capabilities compared to your current gear. It would complement your current cameras instead of roughly duplicating your current cameras.
Hi thank you and also @Maxmolly7, I appreciate the detailed write up on this. I guess you are right, maybe not so good an investment for me personally, but definitely something for others to look at if they are new users and don't want to spend too much.
 
I'm looking at a canon m3 from 2015. I can get it new and even comes bundled with a wide lens and telephoto zoom lens. All this for $400.
it is also a bit fun in itself, bit slow compared to M6 i and ii but with lovely colors and fast enough focus system for everything not quickly moving
If you ask me is it worth investing? I'd say absolutely.

I also love the built quality of this era where it uses magnesium alloy, a lot of cameras these days are more plasticky feeling. And as others have pointed out, they love the tilting screen (I do too, not really a big fan of the fully articulating screen on a lot of cameras these days).

And last thing about canon and I don't really see it mentioned anywhere is they really have the simplest menu system compared to other cameras.

As someone who wants to get his hands dirty into his first apsc, if you compare the price with any new apsc on the market, the body alone can be $700, the lenses another $230 onwards.
 
Which specifoc lenses are included? This could be a great deal, or someone might be unloading garbage.

Personally, I have owned several different M bodies and the M3 was my least favorite by a wide margin. I would take an original M over the M3 every time.
EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM
A total killer deal, you only need to add 11-22 and you basically got a perfect lens lineup
I think the lenses itself is worth the price of the bundle.

I'm not a professional photographer, I'm a hobbyist and something like this makes more sense to me as an affordable way to enter into apsc line.

Before this I've been researching a lot on something like the ZV-E10 and Ricoh GR III, but I ask myself "do I really want to spend that much money?"
 
It sounds like you have your heart set on a specific sensor size more than any specific capabilities.

What camera are you using right now? What do you like about it and what do you dislike? What do you find limiting with your current gear that you are hoping to improve upon? Are there any types of photography that are a priority (wildlife, portraits, sports, landscapes, etc)?
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.
Those are both reasonably competent cameras, so that helps frame the discussion
The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)
G3X is 24-600mm f/2.8-5.6

FZ2500 is 24-480mm f/2.8-4.5

Proposed M3 kit is 29-320mm f/3.5-6.3

Adding the 1.7X teleconverter takes you to 544mm f/11

While the sensor is the M3 is bigger, the lenses are slower (darker). The sensor in the M3 was also a bit behind the times compared to the Sony sensors in your current cameras. Best case, you will see a one stop improvement in image quality over your current cameras. In other words, ISO 3200 will now look like ISO 1600. Worst case, there will be no perceptible improvement. The autofocus in the M3 also won't be a noticeable improvement over your current cameras.

If you were talking about the M6 II and an adapted EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS L II,
Or R10 + 100-400... or do what everyone around these parts does and get ef-s 55-250 stm or 70-300 ii
that would be a massive improvement over your current gear in all regards. But that kit is eight times the cost of the M3 kit. If you want a significant improvement in low light capabilities, you would need to add a lens like the EF-M 22mm f/2.0 or 32mm f/1.4.

The $400 cost of the M3 kit is relatively inexpensive if you just want to play around with some different gear. Just don't expect any massive performance improvements. As a low cost alternative, I would maybe suggest finding an EOS M100 and EF-M 22mm f/2.0 lens. This would give you much better AF and low light capabilities compared to your current gear. It would complement your current cameras instead of roughly duplicating your current cameras.
 
It sounds like you have your heart set on a specific sensor size more than any specific capabilities.

What camera are you using right now? What do you like about it and what do you dislike? What do you find limiting with your current gear that you are hoping to improve upon? Are there any types of photography that are a priority (wildlife, portraits, sports, landscapes, etc)?
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.
Those are both reasonably competent cameras, so that helps frame the discussion
The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)
G3X is 24-600mm f/2.8-5.6

FZ2500 is 24-480mm f/2.8-4.5

Proposed M3 kit is 29-320mm f/3.5-6.3

Adding the 1.7X teleconverter takes you to 544mm f/11

While the sensor is the M3 is bigger, the lenses are slower (darker). The sensor in the M3 was also a bit behind the times compared to the Sony sensors in your current cameras. Best case, you will see a one stop improvement in image quality over your current cameras. In other words, ISO 3200 will now look like ISO 1600. Worst case, there will be no perceptible improvement. The autofocus in the M3 also won't be a noticeable improvement over your current cameras.

If you were talking about the M6 II and an adapted EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS L II,
Or R10 + 100-400... or do what everyone around these parts does and get ef-s 55-250 stm or 70-300 ii
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
that would be a massive improvement over your current gear in all regards. But that kit is eight times the cost of the M3 kit. If you want a significant improvement in low light capabilities, you would need to add a lens like the EF-M 22mm f/2.0 or 32mm f/1.4.

The $400 cost of the M3 kit is relatively inexpensive if you just want to play around with some different gear. Just don't expect any massive performance improvements. As a low cost alternative, I would maybe suggest finding an EOS M100 and EF-M 22mm f/2.0 lens. This would give you much better AF and low light capabilities compared to your current gear. It would complement your current cameras instead of roughly duplicating your current cameras.
--
KEG
 
It sounds like you have your heart set on a specific sensor size more than any specific capabilities.

What camera are you using right now? What do you like about it and what do you dislike? What do you find limiting with your current gear that you are hoping to improve upon? Are there any types of photography that are a priority (wildlife, portraits, sports, landscapes, etc)?
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.
Those are both reasonably competent cameras, so that helps frame the discussion
The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)
G3X is 24-600mm f/2.8-5.6

FZ2500 is 24-480mm f/2.8-4.5

Proposed M3 kit is 29-320mm f/3.5-6.3

Adding the 1.7X teleconverter takes you to 544mm f/11

While the sensor is the M3 is bigger, the lenses are slower (darker). The sensor in the M3 was also a bit behind the times compared to the Sony sensors in your current cameras. Best case, you will see a one stop improvement in image quality over your current cameras. In other words, ISO 3200 will now look like ISO 1600. Worst case, there will be no perceptible improvement. The autofocus in the M3 also won't be a noticeable improvement over your current cameras.

If you were talking about the M6 II and an adapted EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS L II,
Or R10 + 100-400... or do what everyone around these parts does and get ef-s 55-250 stm or 70-300 ii
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Do you seriously think that "600 mm" on the 1 in sensor is even remotely in the same ballpark as 480 mm on the aps-c sensor?
that would be a massive improvement over your current gear in all regards. But that kit is eight times the cost of the M3 kit. If you want a significant improvement in low light capabilities, you would need to add a lens like the EF-M 22mm f/2.0 or 32mm f/1.4.

The $400 cost of the M3 kit is relatively inexpensive if you just want to play around with some different gear. Just don't expect any massive performance improvements. As a low cost alternative, I would maybe suggest finding an EOS M100 and EF-M 22mm f/2.0 lens. This would give you much better AF and low light capabilities compared to your current gear. It would complement your current cameras instead of roughly duplicating your current cameras.
 
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Full frame 400mm lens on an apcs should be equivalent to 600mm due to the crop factor. I see many taking this route of adapting full frame lenses on smaller size sensors like apsc or M43 for that added reach instead of using their native lenses.

In fact it's often been said the best teleconverters are full frame lenses on smaller sized sensors.
 
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Do you seriously think that "600 mm" on the 1 in sensor is even remotely in the same ballpark as 480 mm on the aps-c sensor?
Yes it's these sort of questions that peak my curiosity and why I'm tempted to try apsc. Is there a big difference etc? (Just a rhetorical question).

It's one thing reading comments from people here but another to actually experience it yourself first hand.
 
It sounds like you have your heart set on a specific sensor size more than any specific capabilities.

What camera are you using right now? What do you like about it and what do you dislike? What do you find limiting with your current gear that you are hoping to improve upon? Are there any types of photography that are a priority (wildlife, portraits, sports, landscapes, etc)?
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.
Those are both reasonably competent cameras, so that helps frame the discussion
The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)
G3X is 24-600mm f/2.8-5.6

FZ2500 is 24-480mm f/2.8-4.5

Proposed M3 kit is 29-320mm f/3.5-6.3

Adding the 1.7X teleconverter takes you to 544mm f/11

While the sensor is the M3 is bigger, the lenses are slower (darker). The sensor in the M3 was also a bit behind the times compared to the Sony sensors in your current cameras. Best case, you will see a one stop improvement in image quality over your current cameras. In other words, ISO 3200 will now look like ISO 1600. Worst case, there will be no perceptible improvement. The autofocus in the M3 also won't be a noticeable improvement over your current cameras.

If you were talking about the M6 II and an adapted EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS L II,
Or R10 + 100-400... or do what everyone around these parts does and get ef-s 55-250 stm or 70-300 ii
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Do you seriously think that "600 mm" on the 1 in sensor is even remotely in the same ballpark as 480 mm on the aps-c sensor?
There is far more to creating an image than just the size.of the sensor. Especially when you are comparing the thoroughly outdated sensor in the M3 against the much more modern Sony 1" sensors. To get to a 600mm equivalent view with the M3 and 70-300mm, you need to crop the M3 to 15mp using a sensor area smaller than micro 4/3.
that would be a massive improvement over your current gear in all regards. But that kit is eight times the cost of the M3 kit. If you want a significant improvement in low light capabilities, you would need to add a lens like the EF-M 22mm f/2.0 or 32mm f/1.4.

The $400 cost of the M3 kit is relatively inexpensive if you just want to play around with some different gear. Just don't expect any massive performance improvements. As a low cost alternative, I would maybe suggest finding an EOS M100 and EF-M 22mm f/2.0 lens. This would give you much better AF and low light capabilities compared to your current gear. It would complement your current cameras instead of roughly duplicating your current cameras.
--
KEG
--
KEG
 
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Full frame 400mm lens on an apcs should be equivalent to 600mm due to the crop factor. I see many taking this route of adapting full frame lenses on smaller size sensors like apsc or M43 for that added reach instead of using their native lenses.

In fact it's often been said the best teleconverters are full frame lenses on smaller sized sensors.
Yes, 400mm on APS-C will get you to 600mm equivalent. KEG's suggestion of using a 250mm or 300mm lens falls quite short.

You are right about the popularity of 100-400mm zooms on crop. Canon is likely going to sell boatloads of RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 lenses to new R10 and R7 owners.

Speaking of which... If you wanted to sell your FZ2500 and G3X and then pool those funds with the $400 you would have spent on the M3 kit, you would easily have enough to buy the $1379 R10 kit with the 18-150mm zoom. Add the $599 RF 100-400mm to the package and then you would have a 2 lens setup that rivals the range of your G3X, but with noticeably better performance in all regards.

APS-C can be much better than 1", but it depends on which APS-C and which lenses. Bigger is not automatically better. Depending on the camera/lens combination, a smartphone can even beat APS-C.
 
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Full frame 400mm lens on an apcs should be equivalent to 600mm due to the crop factor. I see many taking this route of adapting full frame lenses on smaller size sensors like apsc or M43 for that added reach instead of using their native lenses.

In fact it's often been said the best teleconverters are full frame lenses on smaller sized sensors.
Yes, 400mm on APS-C will get you to 600mm equivalent. KEG's suggestion of using a 250mm or 300mm lens falls quite short.
  1. the trouble with M3 is probably the AF system, not the sensor, the sensor is capable of great results at ISO 100 and all the way to about 1600, of course that never stops me to go to 6400.
  2. It is possible to use the 250 lens with kenko teleconverter, same teleconverter also works with 70-300.
  3. the 15 mp image might look nicer than the 20 MP one from G3 X due to sharper lens.
You are right about the popularity of 100-400mm zooms on crop. Canon is likely going to sell boatloads of RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 lenses to new R10 and R7 owners.

Speaking of which... If you wanted to sell your FZ2500 and G3X and then pool those funds with the $400 you would have spent on the M3 kit, you would easily have enough to buy the $1379 R10 kit with the 18-150mm zoom. Add the $599 RF 100-400mm to the package and then you would have a 2 lens setup that rivals the range of your G3X, but with noticeably better performance in all regards.

APS-C can be much better than 1", but it depends on which APS-C and which lenses. Bigger is not automatically better. Depending on the camera/lens combination, a smartphone can even beat APS-C.
 
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Full frame 400mm lens on an apcs should be equivalent to 600mm due to the crop factor. I see many taking this route of adapting full frame lenses on smaller size sensors like apsc or M43 for that added reach instead of using their native lenses.

In fact it's often been said the best teleconverters are full frame lenses on smaller sized sensors.
Yes, 400mm on APS-C will get you to 600mm equivalent. KEG's suggestion of using a 250mm or 300mm lens falls quite short.
  1. the trouble with M3 is probably the AF system, not the sensor, the sensor is capable of great results at ISO 100 and all the way to about 1600, of course that never stops me to go to 6400.
  2. It is possible to use the 250 lens with kenko teleconverter, same teleconverter also works with 70-300.
  3. the 15 mp image might look nicer than the 20 MP one from G3 X due to sharper lens.
I get that you like your M3, but my experience with the camera is quite different. Without reservation, I would classify it as the worst M series camera Canon relased for the system. The AF was even worse than the original M, the firmware was full of bugs and ommisions, and the colors were so weird that many thought Canon had switched to a Sony sensor.

Today, there is zero reasons to recommend purchasing a used M3 when you can get the far better M100 for only 10% more money. Even a used M6 is only around $75 more expensive.
 
Neither of those two lenses will match the 600mm equivalence of the OP's current camera.
Full frame 400mm lens on an apcs should be equivalent to 600mm due to the crop factor. I see many taking this route of adapting full frame lenses on smaller size sensors like apsc or M43 for that added reach instead of using their native lenses.

In fact it's often been said the best teleconverters are full frame lenses on smaller sized sensors.
Yes, 400mm on APS-C will get you to 600mm equivalent. KEG's suggestion of using a 250mm or 300mm lens falls quite short.
  1. the trouble with M3 is probably the AF system, not the sensor, the sensor is capable of great results at ISO 100 and all the way to about 1600, of course that never stops me to go to 6400.
  2. It is possible to use the 250 lens with kenko teleconverter, same teleconverter also works with 70-300.
  3. the 15 mp image might look nicer than the 20 MP one from G3 X due to sharper lens.
I get that you like your M3, but my experience with the camera is quite different. Without reservation, I would classify it as the worst M series camera Canon relased for the system. The AF was even worse than the original M, the firmware was full of bugs and ommisions, and the colors were so weird that many thought Canon had switched to a Sony sensor.
Both M3 and RP share almost the same colors and dynamic range, R, M50 and the M6es have much cooler colors by default but of course when shooting RAW it possible to make both look almost the same way.
Today, there is zero reasons to recommend purchasing a used M3 when you can get the far better M100 for only 10% more money. Even a used M6 is only around $75 more expensive.
 
I am sorry about your negative experience with M3. Mine Was better than M in all aspects.

However, I agree that M6 I is a better deal.
 
1" sensors are quite good in decent light. Higher ISO can be cleaned with Topaz tools.

The G3X is small and light 24 to 600mm without changing lenses, but 1 frame per second in RAW is killing it's usefulness.

The next best but expensive thing is Sony's RX10IV. It is far better than APS-C with Tamron 18-400 and it holds up well against EF 100-400mm IS mk1 on M6 mk1.

The 100-400mm IS alone is heavier than the RX10IV.

I have no comparison vs. M6II yet.

The proposed M100 is okay for general travel photography but not for wildlife.
 
1" sensors are quite good in decent light. Higher ISO can be cleaned with Topaz tools.

The G3X is small and light 24 to 600mm without changing lenses, but 1 frame per second in RAW is killing it's usefulness.

The next best but expensive thing is Sony's RX10IV. It is far better than APS-C with Tamron 18-400 and it holds up well against EF 100-400mm IS mk1 on M6 mk1.

The 100-400mm IS alone is heavier than the RX10IV.

I have no comparison vs. M6II yet.

The proposed M100 is okay for general travel photography but not for wildlife.
I totally agree with a lot of your viewpoints and also the previous posters but none of these are in the ball park of $400 - its totally an unfair comparison. Of course the M3 will be inferior but for those starting out and don't want to spend too much, the M3 is fantastic bargain (if you still can find one new that is).

To sum up my point - consider the M3 but only if you can get a great price, because if lets say the M6, the M50 or the RX10iv (or anything better than the M3) is within the same price bracket (eg or within a $100 margin), then by all means go for that cause it is definitely better.

The question here is this, can you match the price point of the M-system for a system like below? In all honesty, i really think for $400 you're paying for the lenses and the M3 is like a freebie here.

But for $400 you're getting a new M3, plus EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM and EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM lenses. Now lets look to ebay for new prices on these lenses:

EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM

EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM



M3 Body only (I tried to find new but can only find pre-owned prices on ebay)

M3 Body only (I tried to find new but can only find pre-owned prices on ebay)
 
My best camera right now is the Canon G3X and Panasonic FZ2500 (both are 1 inch sensors) - I guess the G3X makes me lean towards the Canon M3 because I'm quite happy with the G3X.

The next logical step would then be larger sensor, something like a M43 or APSC, but really as I mentioned above, I am more of a hobbyist (I just love to try things out) - but at the same time, I don't really want to spend too much.

I want to know what am I getting from an APSC that I'm missing on the 1-inch, how much better is low light or night shooting compared to a 1-inch, is the image quality noticably better (stuff like that).

I'm into superzooms mainly (wildlife) and I have a few converters (I hope they can work with the m3).

So roughly if it works out, I'd have an APSC camera with equivalent focal length of 320mm + a 1.7x TC would give me 544mm equivalent. (I don't mind spending $400 to test this, anything more I'd think is too expensive)

I totally agree with a lot of your viewpoints and also the previous posters but none of these are in the ball park of $400 - its totally an unfair comparison. Of course the M3 will be inferior but for those starting out and don't want to spend too much, the M3 is fantastic bargain (if you still can find one new that is).

To sum up my point - consider the M3 but only if you can get a great price, because if lets say the M6, the M50 or the RX10iv (or anything better than the M3) is within the same price bracket (eg or within a $100 margin), then by all means go for that cause it is definitely better.

The question here is this, can you match the price point of the M-system for a system like below? In all honesty, i really think for $400 you're paying for the lenses and the M3 is like a freebie here.

But for $400 you're getting a new M3, plus EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM and EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM lenses. Now lets look to ebay for new prices on these lenses:
I think you're pointed in the right direction Jack'. I myself owned a G3X (and Sony 1") before moving up to the APS-C M System. In good light, (as I'm sure you well know) the G3X can take very good pictures, and the Canon handling, operation, and interface are so nice.

But (as you correctly suspect) it's when getting into low(er) light that a bigger APS-C sensor really proves its worth, and ESPECIALLY when shooting telephoto! :-)

You can certainly test the waters with an M3, but as mentioned it does not have the capabilities of the newer cameras. Shoot with it for a while (those lenses alone are worth the ticket price), and then if you feel like moving on to something more current you can still sell the M3 for on eBay for the current asking price of ~ $250. Add your G3X (~ $500) to that and get something like the M6, M50 (I or II), or even the top of the line M6 Mark II.

I just recently purchased the excellent EF-S 55-250 STM for my M6ii and performed Larry Rexley's trick to add a 1.5x TC to it get 600mm equivalent, which is loads better than the G3X @ 600mm (equiv), the latter of which degrades significantly beyond about 400mm (equiv), in my experience with it...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64824180

I also get the feeling that you'll likely want to eBay the Panny at some point after upgrading to the M System. That'd finance a nice tele for the M System, then you'd be REALLY rockin'! :-D

Give a holler back if any questions come up. I'd be happy to assist.

R2

ps. Be careful when adding your TC to the smaller lenses. Even though they focus internally, they still extend when zooming, and there are no external barrels to solidly mount a TC to. I still have an Oly TCON 14-B around (the king of screw-on TC's), but don't use it any more, as the APS-C teles and sensors are so much better than the bridge cameras. R2

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Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
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My only camera is a used Eos-m3 with the 18-55mm, a used 22mm and a used 50mm f1.8. I have used the camera in almost every imaginable photography genre. I have lost a few photos but all in all I am happy with the results. (even much more expensive cameras don't do always what you want). The colors are OK for me (jpegs since I don't want spend my time on pc). Only the red on flowers seems to "explode" but I am sure I could use a regulation for these occasions with better results (but I am not so fond change always the regulations) . It's a small camera and very well made and strong. I have used it with bellow zero temperature, under rain (protected when not used under a plastic bag). The used battery is still strong. I don't like the eos system in these conditions, but the particular camera have done its job. Especially since I payed 320 dollars 4 years ago for camera and the 18-55mm. Under "18-55mm photos" you can see few of mines. If there is something that I definitely would like on this camera, that would be a silent shutter (for the street photography).

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Flickr. Ioannis_arc
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More pixels, less ideas ;)
 
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