Come on, Nikon, issue the R7 and R10 killers, now!

Recently, I have been following closely what's happening on the Canon R side of DPR, and it appears the R7 and R10 cameras are doing very well, despite some rough spots. In terms of AF-C, they seem equally capable cameras superior to any of the Nikon cameras, except perhaps the Z9, and IQ is decent. There is a thread where many are commenting that the AF of the R7 is superior to that of the D500 and represents two generations of advance. At least one significant contributor to this Z forum purchased an R7. I am quite a bit disappointed that Nikon is dragging its feet with offering comparable DX ML cameras, and am concerned this is not a good business position for them. I was a Minolta loyalist in the film days, but they blew the transition to digital and got out of the business, and I ended up starting from scratch with Nikon. Is Nikon perhaps challenged in the AF side of ML technology?

In the meantime, my Nikon DX DSLR's and F-lenses continue to serve my needs well. For me completely switching over to a ML system is not a matter of urgency, but I would like to do it eventually and have an experience similar to that with DX DSLR's without starting over from scratch. (I am now retired.) State-of-the art AF-C interests me, but not at a Z9 price premium.

Say all you want about Nikon focusing more on the higher end, but many of us loyalists were well-served with Nikon DX DSLR's and I don't like the fact that Nikon seems to be ignoring this segment. A measly Z30 IMO does not cut it!

Come on Nikon, do your best for ALL your loyalists. Issue the R7 and R10 killers NOW!

I briefly considered pulling the trigger on an R7, but after tossing it around a day or so...just couldn't do it.

2 reasons:

1. Too happy with/too much invested in the Z glass.

2. Realize that it won't take a ton of R&D for Nikon to upscale the original 2+ year old Z50 design into that Z version of the D500 that many of us desire. Keep it under $2k and that body will make the Z9 order frenzy look tame in comparison.

Truth be told I would much prefer a light APS-C Z body than a mini Z9 (Z8)...will I look at the mythical Z6iii/Z7iii when they/if they are announced as the 2nd 2022 body? Sure of course. But most likely I will be more interested in adding an MPB or KEH Z7ii when that happens, and being patient on that Nikon Z500 that I am pretty sure will be the next body on the horizon.

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fotosean.com

NikonMan09 said:

Recently, I have been following closely what's happening on the Canon R side of DPR, and it appears the R7 and R10 cameras are doing very well, despite some rough spots. In terms of AF-C, they seem equally capable cameras superior to any of the Nikon cameras, except perhaps the Z9, and IQ is decent. There is a thread where many are commenting that the AF of the R7 is superior to that of the D500 and represents two generations of advance. At least one significant contributor to this Z forum purchased an R7. I am quite a bit disappointed that Nikon is dragging its feet with offering comparable DX ML cameras, and am concerned this is not a good business position for them. I was a Minolta loyalist in the film days, but they blew the transition to digital and got out of the business, and I ended up starting from scratch with Nikon. Is Nikon perhaps challenged in the AF side of ML technology?

In the meantime, my Nikon DX DSLR's and F-lenses continue to serve my needs well. For me completely switching over to a ML system is not a matter of urgency, but I would like to do it eventually and have an experience similar to that with DX DSLR's without starting over from scratch. (I am now retired.) State-of-the art AF-C interests me, but not at a Z9 price premium.

Say all you want about Nikon focusing more on the higher end, but many of us loyalists were well-served with Nikon DX DSLR's and I don't like the fact that Nikon seems to be ignoring this segment. A measly Z30 IMO does not cut it!

Come on Nikon, do your best for ALL your loyalists. Issue the R7 and R10 killers NOW!

Click to expand...

If R7 suits your need, why not just go ahead to purchase the camera? We have no idea when Nikon will respond to Canon's R7, just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9. But some Canon users already have bought Z9 during the gap period. (you can see tvstaff's thread)

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1. The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Vice versa it looks a bit more dire. (Z50 vs R7 or Z6/Z7 vs R6/R5).

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1. The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Vice versa it looks a bit more dire. (Z50 vs R7 or Z6/Z7 vs R6/R5).

Click to expand...

In levels of “direness” I’d say the $2k and $3k full frame situation being behind the competition is much more dire than the lack of those crop cameras.

Droster said:

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1. The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Vice versa it looks a bit more dire. (Z50 vs R7 or Z6/Z7 vs R6/R5).

Click to expand...

In levels of “direness” I’d say the $2k and $3k full frame situation being behind the competition is much more dire than the lack of those crop cameras.

Click to expand...

The thing is that Nikon needs to update/release multiple cameras: Z6, Z7 and a DX model better than Z50. That's 3 cameras and it's 4 if we include rumored Z8 if that appears and doesn't replace Z7.

The issue is that they would ideally need all those model to be available immediately but that's clearly not realistic. So they need to prioritize and spread out these releases over this and the next year.

I agree that full frame needs more attention right now and I would expect that they release at least 1 or 2 full frame cameras before releasing any DX one.

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1.

Click to expand...

Partly agree.

Laqup said:

The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Click to expand...

R5 overheats although it can record 8k raw video. Z9 doesn't overheat during the same mode. And R3 doesn't have 45mp sensor in comparison with Sony A1 and Z9. I see differences in between the camears.

Laqup said:

Vice versa it looks a bit more dire. (Z50 vs R7 or Z6/Z7 vs R6/R5).

Click to expand...

Jeff_0000 said:

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1.

Click to expand...

Partly agree.

Jeff_0000 said:

The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Click to expand...

R5 overheats although it can record 8k raw video. Z9 doesn't overheat during the same mode. And R3 doesn't have 45mp sensor in comparison with Sony A1 and Z9. I see differences in between the camears

Click to expand...

But then there is the R5C if you are video oriented.

If overheating is an issue depends on your use case. Filming long clips outdoor in Florida is certainly not ideal. In many other cases it works really well w/o any issues.

Need this now.

I'm looking at the R7.

Don't want to switch.

Had a few Nikon Cameras, 4004, 6006, D70, D90, D7100, D7500, Z50.

Want an upgrade but not the size of the full frames like the D500.

Also want DX telephotos, Canon also has a R100-400 that weighs 1.4 lbs.

Ready to jump ship but I know Nikon will come out with something even better.

But WHEN?

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1.

Click to expand...

Partly agree.

Laqup said:

The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Click to expand...

R5 overheats although it can record 8k raw video. Z9 doesn't overheat during the same mode. And R3 doesn't have 45mp sensor in comparison with Sony A1 and Z9. I see differences in between the camears

Click to expand...

But then there is the R5C if you are video oriented.

Click to expand...

Z9 can do both photo and video with high performance, stability and efficiency.

R5C is a video-oriented camera but is compromised with micro-HDMI, short EPL-6 battery life, worse video AF (in comparison with R5), time delay in switching on and off in between photo and video mode. Also, on photo side R5C is not that strong, for example, its 20 fps electronic shutter (same as R5) has rolling shutter issue.

Laqup said:

If overheating is an issue depends on your use case. Filming long clips outdoor in Florida is certainly not ideal. In many other cases it works really well w/o any issues.

Click to expand...

While I appreciate R5 has 8k video capability, Z9 is definitely a more dependable and reliable camera that can work well for pro video shooters, no matter which format (4k/8k/1080p) video they choose. The ability not to overheat under 8k video is a huge advantage for Z9 compared to the one that overheats. It is incorrect to say that Z9 is not really much different to R3/R5/R5C

Jeff_0000 said:

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

Laqup said:

Jeff_0000 said:

just like Canon users have no idea when Canon will respond to Nikon's Z9.

Click to expand...

Canon already has the R3 and the R5, no real need for the R1.

Click to expand...

Partly agree.

Jeff_0000 said:

The Z9 is not really much different to those cameras.

Click to expand...

R5 overheats although it can record 8k raw video. Z9 doesn't overheat during the same mode. And R3 doesn't have 45mp sensor in comparison with Sony A1 and Z9. I see differences in between the camears

Click to expand...

But then there is the R5C if you are video oriented.

Click to expand...

Z9 can do both photo and video with high performance, stability and efficiency.

R5C is a video-oriented camera but is compromised with micro-HDMI, short EPL-6 battery life, worse video AF (in comparison with R5), time delay in switching on and off in between photo and video mode. Also, on photo side R5C is not that strong, for example, its 20 fps electronic shutter (same as R5) has rolling shutter issue.

Jeff_0000 said:

If overheating is an issue depends on your use case. Filming long clips outdoor in Florida is certainly not ideal. In many other cases it works really well w/o any issues.

Click to expand...

While I appreciate R5 has 8k video capability, Z9 is definitely a more dependable and reliable camera that can work well for pro video shooters, no matter which format (4k/8k/1080p) video they choose. The ability not to overheat under 8k video is a huge advantage for Z9 compared to the one that overheats. It is incorrect to say that Z9 is not really much different to R3/R5/R5C

Click to expand...

I would simplify it a bit and summarize it like this:

Z9 = R3 + R5

You need two Canon cameras to do what you can do with Z9.

I agree the future is bright - Launch day - last thursday in October ($1 bet no facts).

Sure a D5/D500 style launch would be great - but this time a Z8 (62mp)/Z80(30+mp) AND Z6III/Z7III updates all announced and launched at the same time -- would this shut the likes of JP or Tony&C up -- no way they will find a way to rag on something to gain clicks.

And since JP clearly seems to be a Canon FB (or maybe just has a huge amount of Canon gear) then they will attack because they want to defend their favourite brand.

I agree the D850 and D500 were great, but not great if you were a stringer for news/mags 19-24mp is your sweet spot -- I sold my D5 and D500 earlier this year when I received my 2nd Z9.

The 24mp file size is why the R3 is going to sell like crazy to these folk. We Enthusiasts want more MP - which is why the R7 is so exciting, but with the exception of a few images have no clue what to do with them.

I recently asked NPS if Nikon would consider adding multiple downsampling RAW size options to the Z9 to give L(45.4mp), M(35mp) and S(24mp). Other than when shooting as 120fps 11mp is too small these days. I was far from the first to make this request.

The BEST Nikon SLR is the original "The F" launched in 1959 (and obviously it just got more and more capable as "better" technology was added). Watch Gray Levett on the latest Grays of Westminster livestream -- he was selling this camera back then when before that all Ni-Ko-N had were rangefinder cameras. WOW what a journey from then to the F6 and F100 (the last film camera I bought in 2004 but then I jumped into the D100 at the same time) and then the journey from the D1H/D1X and D100 (in 2001) to the last Nikon DSLRs in launched 2020 the D6, D850 and also the D760. Over the last 4 years Nikon went from more than just dipping its toes in Mirrorless to being a leading contender -- 50 Z lenses will be available soon and all f-mount lenses can be used+E, RF, PL and many other brands too. Someone will make an adapter with a screw AF motor soon as well so AF for D-series Nikkor lenses and earlier will come too. AND I am sure that if a ProBody DX Z-mount body emerges then someone (Metabones) will make a "Speed Booster" (x0.71 TC) to give this body +1 stop extra light when Z-mount FX glass is used on it (you can already use one for F-mount).

ajm057 said:

I agree the future is bright - Launch day - last thursday in October ($1 bet no facts).

Sure a D5/D500 style launch would be great - but this time a Z8 (62mp)/Z80(30+mp) AND Z6III/Z7III updates all announced and launched at the same time -- would this shut the likes of JP or Tony&C up -- no way they will find a way to rag on something to gain clicks.

Click to expand...

That kind of planning would also shut some of Nikon engineers...

Now would be nice. But do you really think that the process of creating a camera is such that when a competitor releases a new camera, you can respond IMMEDIATELY?

Or would it be better for Nikon to finish all proper steps of development of new cameras and then release the camera when it is ready, rather than releasing the camera before it is ready and potentially leading to criticism and poor sales?

We can all have different opinions here. I think its better for them to finish all proper development steps and release the camera when it is ready.

--
Paige Miller

You're not going to make a lot of friends on this forum by criticizing Nikon like this. Witness : only three likes to your thread.

The need for a Z500 or Z70 or 90 has been expressed repeatedly. Nikon listened very well and came out first with the Zfc and then with the Z30. That's the reality, whether we like it or not.

fotosean said:

I briefly considered pulling the trigger on an R7, but after tossing it around a day or so...just couldn't do it.

2 reasons:

1. Too happy with/too much invested in the Z glass.

2. Realize that it won't take a ton of R&D for Nikon to upscale the original 2+ year old Z50 design into that Z version of the D500 that many of us desire. Keep it under $2k and that body will make the Z9 order frenzy look tame in comparison.

Click to expand...

The D500 was released many years after the D300. Many had feared that a high end DX body was relegated to the history books.

The D500 sold relatively well. But there was no order frenzy accompanying it.

There will be no order frenzy making the Z9 demand look tame in comparison if a Z90 body comes out either. Outside of some BIF and sports shooters, the bulk of the DX crowd wants bodies like are replacements for the D5000 and D7000 series.

I am a bird photographer and I am waiting for the Z90. I currently use a D500 and every time one of these threads come up I always write something in the hope that Nikon will catch wind of all these threads and how much attention they are getting. I kinda doubt it but you never know....

I am sticking with Nikon because of the 500PF. That plus a 24mp-32mp Z90 would be a dream. I also don't even care if it has Z9-level AF. It just has to have D500 level AF plus a few enhancements. Canon showed with the R7 that a decent wildlife camera can be made without a stacked sensor so I wouldn't mind if Nikon made one without a stacked sensor too.

I am sometimes asked for advice on what wildlife camera/lens to get. For most people who want a balance of features, price, and performance, I always recommend the R7 + 100-500 now. I'd love to say Nikon because they have some amazing lenses but a Z9 is just too impractical for most people, either in price or in weight/size.

There is a loud component of DX users on the forum that want the D500 replacement, but does that really represent the market? I don't know. The bulk of their effort has to be going to the bulk of the market, like the middle-range full-frame segment that is aging. What is concerning is that there is apparently only one more camera on the immediate horizon, and Nikon could use three. If we have to wait until late next year for z6ii/z7ii replacements, they had better be a stellar advance. A small incremental update at that time would not bode well.

Then again, they did take a detour and produce the z30, so anything is possible.

Nikon already has the great Lens selection for it...So bring it on already.

I usually have enough patience to wa0it for them to come up with what I want.

Or even better than what I wanted.

Which is why my DX lenses went from 18-70, 18-135, 18-200 70-300G, 70-300VR, 70-300vr P DX, 85 micro, 16-85, 16-80 2.8/4.

Sigma 10-20 and 100-400.

What I now lack confidence in is whether Nikon wants to support Quality Dx cameras and lenses.

If they are working on it, I'm sure it will be great.

Once they transitioned to DX is for entry level only, Don't know if they will ever make the camera or lenses that I want.

If they said they will release a Z80 or 90 I would wait.

If its never going to happen I might as well switch now.

I got the Z50 as a travel camera and liked it so much that I sold the D7500.

But I want more, or the promise of more, in DX