dSLR and personal safety

digihoho said:

HK is one of the safest cities to be in I
think! But a different story across the border over in Shenzhen,
China!

Click to expand...

I was under the impression that Hong Kong now is part of China. I newer made it to HK though, so I have no idea of how things are administered - I guess there could still be a border even if it is the same country?

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

... it's the belief that I own my life. Do you believe that you own your life, or is it subservient to society? In the USA, my premise is the one that was believed by the founders. Karl Mark, et. al., believed otherwise.

One sign of a free society is the ownership of ... books. And guns. And property.
Ken

Roy van der Woning said:

Roy van der Woning said:

... those that believe that their lives are their own, and ... the
other ones.

Click to expand...

That's but one of many classifications.

I don't agree though that guns mark the line between these two kinds.

Life, unlike photography, is hardly ever black and white.

Roy.

Click to expand...

--

'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm

Some people believe in individuality, others believes in collectivism.

Ken Phillips said:

Roy van der Woning said:

Ken Phillips said:

... those that believe that their lives are their own, and ... the
other ones.

Click to expand...

That's but one of many classifications.

I don't agree though that guns mark the line between these two kinds.

Life, unlike photography, is hardly ever black and white.

Roy.

Click to expand...

--
'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to
begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm

Click to expand...

Hi Vern

Not that I want to ague with the facts in any way, but merely point out another fact that statistics wery often are misleading.

Propably the statistics for number of murders are pretty accurate, but other statistics like for all crimes are propably just - statistics. The rate of reporting crimes or registering crimes can vary considerably from country to country. If you cross of read in Denmark you will be fined by the police if they see you (ridiculous as it is, but never the less) while in NY you can cross on red everywhere even right in front of the police. That makes statistics very hard to compare.

Having said this, I must say that I have traveled to the US several times now, and always find it safe and full of friendly and sympatic people - for the most part obviously.

Vern Stevens said:

¥akuza said:

Because the US is one of the most unsafe countries in the world,
you have to watch your back.

Click to expand...

And does your source include safety vs. citizens, the government,
the environment, etc.?

--
'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate.' - The X-Files (Teliko)

http://www.pbase.com/vsteven

Click to expand...

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

It's quite amusing actutually. Chinese who wishes to go to Hong Kong (their own land) needs a visa (might not be called a visa, but a entry permit nontheless), foreigners from many countries can enter freely.

Kjeld Olesen said:

digihoho said:

HK is one of the safest cities to be in I
think! But a different story across the border over in Shenzhen,
China!

Click to expand...

I was under the impression that Hong Kong now is part of China. I
newer made it to HK though, so I have no idea of how things are
administered - I guess there could still be a border even if it is
the same country?

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

Click to expand...

... as long as they don't try to force collectivism on me.
Ken

TPW said:

Ken Phillips said:

Roy van der Woning said:

TPW said:

... those that believe that their lives are their own, and ... the
other ones.

Click to expand...

That's but one of many classifications.

I don't agree though that guns mark the line between these two kinds.

Life, unlike photography, is hardly ever black and white.

Roy.

Click to expand...

--
'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to
begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm

I agree, the indivial stats on specific crimes may be more accurate, but the overall crime stats have too many variables (ie: does misdemeanors count? what about traffic violations? strictness of laws such as drug possession, etc)

Kjeld Olesen said:

Not that I want to ague with the facts in any way, but merely point
out another fact that statistics wery often are misleading.

Propably the statistics for number of murders are pretty accurate,
but other statistics like for all crimes are propably just -
statistics. The rate of reporting crimes or registering crimes can
vary considerably from country to country. If you cross of read in
Denmark you will be fined by the police if they see you (ridiculous
as it is, but never the less) while in NY you can cross on red
everywhere even right in front of the police. That makes statistics
very hard to compare.

Having said this, I must say that I have traveled to the US several
times now, and always find it safe and full of friendly and
sympatic people - for the most part obviously.

Vern Stevens said:

¥akuza said:

Because the US is one of the most unsafe countries in the world,
you have to watch your back.

Click to expand...

And does your source include safety vs. citizens, the government,
the environment, etc.?

--
'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate.' - The X-Files (Teliko)

http://www.pbase.com/vsteven

Click to expand...

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

Click to expand...

Ken Phillips said:

... it's the belief that I own my life. Do you believe that you own
your life, or is it subservient to society?

Click to expand...

You mostly own your life, but you have to abide by society's laws and as such you're not always 100% free to choose.

Ken Phillips said:

In the USA, my premise is the one that was believed by the
founders. Karl Mark, et. al., believed otherwise. One sign of a free
society is the ownership of ... books. And guns. And property.

Click to expand...

If you were really free, you'd also be allowed to run a red light. But you're not.

My point is that even though you're somewhat limited by the rules set by society, that doesn't mean that you're not enjoying freedom or that you're not in control of your own life.

I don't think that anyone in this thread contested the right to live your own life, only the idea that it takes a gun to do so.

FWIW: I have nothing against guns, nor do I desire to own one personally.

Roy.

TPW said:

Thanks for the website, very interesting statistics, and very
surprising too.

Click to expand...

You should always read the whole story:

Definition: Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalance.

Ideally, society create laws to ensure that one person's freedom does not encroach on anothers. Owning a gun is in no way diminishes the freedom of your fellow citizens, therefore there should not be laws forbidding it.

The gun-control activists would like to say that gun kill people. No criminals kill people. I'll give a simple analogy, there are more death from car accidents than gun violence. Is it cars that killing people or is it bad drivers? Should we ban cars too?

BTW, I do not own a gun, and have no intention to do so in the near future. However it is good to know that should I ever feel the need to do so for my own protection, I have the choice.

Roy van der Woning said:

Roy van der Woning said:

... it's the belief that I own my life. Do you believe that you own
your life, or is it subservient to society?

Click to expand...

You mostly own your life, but you have to abide by society's laws
and as such you're not always 100% free to choose.

Roy van der Woning said:

In the USA, my premise is the one that was believed by the
founders. Karl Mark, et. al., believed otherwise. One sign of a free
society is the ownership of ... books. And guns. And property.

Click to expand...

If you were really free, you'd also be allowed to run a red light.
But you're not.

My point is that even though you're somewhat limited by the rules
set by society, that doesn't mean that you're not enjoying freedom
or that you're not in control of your own life.

I don't think that anyone in this thread contested the right to
live your own life, only the idea that it takes a gun to do so.

FWIW: I have nothing against guns, nor do I desire to own one
personally.

Roy.

Click to expand...

New York, London, Paris, Milano, Tokyo, Singapore, Sydney, Rio, Chicago, San Francisco ... you name it. I love shooting in big cities. I've traveled all over the world with "fancy cameras" for many years and have never once had an incident where I felt endangered by the possibility of bodily harm over the camera, and no one's tried to steal one from me yet either.

However, if the moment came to it and someone wanted to rip off my camera, fine ... let it go. It makes no sense to risk your life over a camera. You can always get another one. You should be insured to protect yourself financially.

Carrying a pistol as "protection"? ... Well, the statistics show that more people who carry a pistol as protection get ripped off or injured than people who don't. Unless you're trained in the use of your sidearm, practice your training diligently, and are legally certified to carry a firearm, I believe you are taking a greater risk by adding a gun to your expensive equipment totage. (And I'm not anti-gun, by any means. Someone posted a pointer to a little Kel Tec P 32 in this thread that is just a great looking lightweight pistol that I'd love to own and learn to shoot.)

Be aware of yourself and your surroundings, don't make yourself a target by acting foolishly, and you'll generally have no trouble.

Godfrey

Roy van der Woning said:

Has anyone had experiences with their dSLR drawing unwanted
attention? Or worse, has anyone been threatened, attacked or stolen
from because of the expensive looking gear you're carrying?

I often wonder how much of a risk I'd take going out all by myself,
carrying thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Even if you haven't had any bad experiences, do these thoughts pass
your mind as well?

Roy.

Click to expand...

My opinion cameras and guns go well together, and SYT's too for that matter.

If BG's thought most photograhpers were packin they would most certainly go elsewhere for softer targets I'm sure. They might want to take your stuff but they also want to do it with as little risk to themselves as possible.

Anyway if we can't have guns then BG's can feel very secure since the don't care about legal.

The answer becomes the problem. The gun nuts will now provide more reason for us to be afraid. "Bowling for Columbine", anyone?

Isn't it curious that the US locks up more of its citizens in prison on a per capita basis than any other country in the world? In Aug 2003, the US Dept. of Justice Bureau of Statistics released a report showing that 2.7% of the US pop. have served time are are currently locked up. In other words, 1 in 37 Americans are cons or ex-cons?

TPW said:

Kjeld Olesen said:

Not that I want to ague with the facts in any way, but merely point
out another fact that statistics wery often are misleading.

Propably the statistics for number of murders are pretty accurate,
but other statistics like for all crimes are propably just -
statistics. The rate of reporting crimes or registering crimes can
vary considerably from country to country. If you cross of read in
Denmark you will be fined by the police if they see you (ridiculous
as it is, but never the less) while in NY you can cross on red
everywhere even right in front of the police. That makes statistics
very hard to compare.

Having said this, I must say that I have traveled to the US several
times now, and always find it safe and full of friendly and
sympatic people - for the most part obviously.

Vern Stevens said:

¥akuza said:

Because the US is one of the most unsafe countries in the world,
you have to watch your back.

Click to expand...

And does your source include safety vs. citizens, the government,
the environment, etc.?

--
'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate.' - The X-Files (Teliko)

http://www.pbase.com/vsteven

Click to expand...

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ken Phillips said:

... and it's not up to the government to protect me; they cannot.
Your ignorance of the meaning of liberty is appalling.
Ken

Click to expand...

You asked for it - you and your attitude are the problem, period.

Nothing curious about that. We have harsher punishment for criminals. We would rather have them in prison than running around harming law-abiding citizens. It ensures the rest of us can enjoy our freedom more. I have little tolerance or sympathy for those who chose to harm their fellow citizens. In my opinion the punishment for violent criminals is still not harsh enough.

Jared Hunter said:

TPW said:

Kjeld Olesen said:

Not that I want to ague with the facts in any way, but merely point
out another fact that statistics wery often are misleading.

Propably the statistics for number of murders are pretty accurate,
but other statistics like for all crimes are propably just -
statistics. The rate of reporting crimes or registering crimes can
vary considerably from country to country. If you cross of read in
Denmark you will be fined by the police if they see you (ridiculous
as it is, but never the less) while in NY you can cross on red
everywhere even right in front of the police. That makes statistics
very hard to compare.

Having said this, I must say that I have traveled to the US several
times now, and always find it safe and full of friendly and
sympatic people - for the most part obviously.

Vern Stevens said:

¥akuza said:

Because the US is one of the most unsafe countries in the world,
you have to watch your back.

Click to expand...

And does your source include safety vs. citizens, the government,
the environment, etc.?

--
'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate.' - The X-Files (Teliko)

http://www.pbase.com/vsteven

Click to expand...

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I am usually leary of statistics myself. I did preface their citing with "for the sake of discussion". And I really only brought stats into it because if someone is going to say "one of most unsafe countries in the world" they have to have based that on something. Stats are as close as you can get to basing that kind of global remark on.

But I tend to agree that stats don't tell the whole story, and you usually have to be wary of WHO is gathering the statistics, and what point of view are they coming from.

I know first hand how the gathering of statistics on the small scale can easily be "tainted" without any real intent to do so. The classification of an individual crime can be interpreted sometimes. And likewise, the change of laws can increase crime stats. A few years ago when our state adopted the mandatory domestic assault arrest law, our "Assaults" stat went way up, even though there was no actual increase in the occurence of the crime, it was just reported more often.

VES

Kjeld Olesen said:

Not that I want to ague with the facts in any way, but merely point
out another fact that statistics wery often are misleading.

Propably the statistics for number of murders are pretty accurate,
but other statistics like for all crimes are propably just -
statistics. The rate of reporting crimes or registering crimes can
vary considerably from country to country. If you cross of read in
Denmark you will be fined by the police if they see you (ridiculous
as it is, but never the less) while in NY you can cross on red
everywhere even right in front of the police. That makes statistics
very hard to compare.

Having said this, I must say that I have traveled to the US several
times now, and always find it safe and full of friendly and
sympatic people - for the most part obviously.

Vern Stevens said:

¥akuza said:

Because the US is one of the most unsafe countries in the world,
you have to watch your back.

Click to expand...

And does your source include safety vs. citizens, the government,
the environment, etc.?

--
'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate.' - The X-Files (Teliko)

http://www.pbase.com/vsteven

Click to expand...

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

Click to expand...

--
'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate.' - The X-Files (Teliko)

http://www.pbase.com/vsteven

Anyone who thinks "guns" were the problem at Columbine is showing their ignorance, liberal cliches nonwithstanding.

How long does it take for police to arrive when you dial 911? Five minutes? Ten minutes? Twenty minutes?

d60fan said:

The answer becomes the problem. The gun nuts will now provide more
reason for us to be afraid. "Bowling for Columbine", anyone?

Click to expand...

--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.

No, I think you and yours is. People like you wants the government to take care of you. God forbid you should make your own decisions and take your life into your own hands.

d60fan said:

Ken Phillips said:

... and it's not up to the government to protect me; they cannot.
Your ignorance of the meaning of liberty is appalling.
Ken

Click to expand...

You asked for it - you and your attitude are the problem, period.

Click to expand...