Best macro camera ever

Hi All,

Wanted your opinion as to which you think is the (under $1000) procumer camera thats best for macros - moderate to extreme closeups. I am not just looking at the minimum focusing distance, in which case, I guess the Pentax Optio 550 would win (?) since it goes as close as 2cm.

I am also wondering about the clarity, depth-of-field in macro mode and crispness in macro mode.

Based on my limited experience, I would suggest its one of these

1. Nikon Coolpix 995
2. Nikon Coolpix 5000 series (5000, 5400, 5700)
3. Pentax Optio 550 (550, 555)
4. Sony DSC F717 (707)
5. Minolta 7 series

Would love to hear what cameras others nominate? Maybe we could have a macro shoot out between owners of the different cameras with jujst the lens that comes with the camera . You could stack up umpteen numbers of close-up filters and get amazing results, but I wanted to see which camera does the best out of the box.

I can show you macros with some non-DSLR cameras I have used

1. HP Photosmart 850
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/hp850_flowers

2. Sony DSC F717
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/sony_dscf717

3. Canon G3
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/canong3_flowers

Anil

Heck, get a digital Rebel and the Phoenix 100mm macro lens. I own that lens, and it takes excellent pictures -- though the AF is distressingly noisy sometimes.

Hi,

Yeah a DSLR with a dedicated macro lens would be awesome, but I was interested in getting suggestions regarding a so-called "point-and-shoot". I own a Canon D60, BTW. But haven't yet bought a macro lens though - I have a Canon EF 28-135mm IS USM and a EF 75-300mm USM.

I also own a G3, which sucks at macro - very average. My Sony F717 used to be really good at macros, but design-wise, it frustrated me.

Anil

saaketham1 said:

Yeah a DSLR with a dedicated macro lens would be awesome, but I was
interested in getting suggestions regarding a so-called
"point-and-shoot". I own a Canon D60, BTW. But haven't yet bought a
macro lens though - I have a Canon EF 28-135mm IS USM and a EF
75-300mm USM.

Click to expand...

Huh? Maybe you better explain. Your D60 is a much better tool for shooting macros than any so-called "prosumer" point-and-shoot. Just add a decent macro lens, such as the Sigma 50mm F2.8 EX, and you can shoot up to 1:1 without such a limited working distance as the little cameras have.

A 1:1 macro means your subject can be as small as your sensor, about 1.5x2.2 cm.

j

Hi,

I know its hard to beat a DSLR wth a dedicated macro lens (maybe 1:1 or 2:1 or something) + it offers excellent control over DOF + wide range of aperture/shutter speed depending on the lens, of course.

My problem is: I am sick of carrying around lenses - already have 2 + hoods for both + filters for both (different threads). Dont want to bloat my bag with another macro.

I dont do any commercial work anyway, so dont need the ultimate quality. So for the cost of the 28-135mm IS USM and the 75-300mm USM, I could buy a Nikon Coolpix 5700 (after the current rebate, its only $600). And use it for zoom and macro since I have seen excellent macros out of that camera.

And with some NeatImage and Photoshop, I am sure I could turn out good photos that satisfy the amateur in me.

Anil

Just Looking said:

Huh? Maybe you better explain. Your D60 is a much better tool for
shooting macros than any so-called "prosumer" point-and-shoot.
Just add a decent macro lens, such as the Sigma 50mm F2.8 EX, and
you can shoot up to 1:1 without such a limited working distance as
the little cameras have.

A 1:1 macro means your subject can be as small as your sensor,
about 1.5x2.2 cm.

j

Click to expand...

To get anywhere close to what can be done with a Nikon CP995 or CP4500, takes a large investment in lenses, specialized flash, reflectors, etc.

Even then it's nearly impossible to get adequate depth of field without giving up certain aesthetics such as background color. I have thousands of dollars worth to top end macro lenses and equipment, and there are shots which I get easily with my little Nikons which I can't do at all with any of my SLR or dSLR's.

Of course it's possible to get much greater than 1:1 with a Canon SLR or digital SLR because of Canon's MP-E 65 1-5x but it requires Canon's specialized flash for best efficiency. One can also reverse a quality 28mm or 50mm and use belows and rails and extension tubes to do near photomicrography with the SLR, but this requires a "very" willing subject, a tripod, a reasonably long exposure and lets out hand holding entirely.

The reversed lens will work just as well with the small Nikons and even with the Canon G3-G5, etc. The thing which makes the small Nikons so good is that it's entirely possible to actually "get" the shot which in many cases is impossible with the SLR and all the equipment needed.

If you've ever tried standing on your head to shoot an ant or bee on the ground, with your nose about 4 inches from the business end of a stinger you will appreciate the ease of doing it with one of the little Nikon jewels. The other great advantage is greatly increased depth of field with the tiny true focal length lens on the Nikons.

Following are a couple shots. The first is one of mine with a CP995 (honey bee) hand held, easy shot. It's about 1:1. The second is an amazing shot of a tiny golden ant by Charles Chien using a Canon dSLR, reversed lens, bellows, dual strobes and lots and lots of effort.

The golden ant shot shows the ultimate possible with the 35mm approach with a highly skilled photographer and very specialized equipment, while the bee shot shows what can be done with a quick hand held snap in natural light.

Lin





--
http://208.56.82.71

Hi,

Your CP995 shot is the kind that will make an amateur like me happy - the other seems like too much work - bellows and what not. I have a G3 - do you think its better to use the reverse 50 or 28mm on it than get a CP995 or CP5700 for macro shots?

BTW, DSLRs offer more depth-of-field. Macros are typically shot at narrow apertures (f/16 seems popular according to the macro book I am currently). CP 5700 and G3 offer a max of f/8 or so, right? So it cant be true that point-and-shoots offer better depth-of-field, since I can go upto f/32 on my D60. Also I read somewhere that with a narrower aperture, sharpness goes up - of course, exposure time also goes up.

But I agree with your statements regarding too much eqipment and work for non-commercial work.
Thanks.

Anil

Try the Nikon Coolpix 4500. It's a 4Mpx version of the 995 and it has great macro. I haven't seen any 'prosumer' digicam with better macro than this. It get as close as 1cm in mid zoom and the swivel body makes it easy on the hard angles.

saaketham1 said:

Hi All,

Wanted your opinion as to which you think is the (under $1000)
procumer camera thats best for macros - moderate to extreme
closeups. I am not just looking at the minimum focusing distance,
in which case, I guess the Pentax Optio 550 would win (?) since it
goes as close as 2cm.

I am also wondering about the clarity, depth-of-field in macro mode
and crispness in macro mode.

Based on my limited experience, I would suggest its one of these

1. Nikon Coolpix 995
2. Nikon Coolpix 5000 series (5000, 5400, 5700)
3. Pentax Optio 550 (550, 555)
4. Sony DSC F717 (707)
5. Minolta 7 series

Would love to hear what cameras others nominate? Maybe we could
have a macro shoot out between owners of the different cameras with
jujst the lens that comes with the camera . You could stack up
umpteen numbers of close-up filters and get amazing results, but I
wanted to see which camera does the best out of the box.

I can show you macros with some non-DSLR cameras I have used

1. HP Photosmart 850
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/hp850_flowers

2. Sony DSC F717
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/sony_dscf717

3. Canon G3
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/canong3_flowers

Anil

Click to expand...

Hey Anil,

I would say the CP5xxx series of prosumer cameras are the hands down winners in the macro area. They flexability of these cameras are stunning. Having the swivel or twistable LCD makes them great for macro as well. They can focus down to 2cm and even to 1cm. In general Nikon prosumers are known for their macro.

As for what Lin was saying. He is correct. A prosumer will easily beat a DSLR for macro unless you spend a 'lot' of money. A prosumer has deeper depth of field than a DSLR even though it 'only' has maximum of f8.0 vs. f32 on a slr. This is because of the wider angle lenses used on a prosumer camera. They use such wide angle lenses because of the small sensor sizes. The nikon CP 5400, for example has a 5.4-24mm lens!!!! I don't think there is a macro SLR lens made that has depth of field that can match that, at any price. When one is doing macros, depth of field is the most important element in my opinion.

What Just Looking is saying is just not true (like much of what else she says it seems). A prosumer camera will beat a DSLR everytime, unless, like Lin said, you spend a lot of money. Much more than a CP 5400 costs. I own a S2 Pro, but I would never use it for Macro, since I also own a Nikon CP 5000.

Regards,
Sean

saaketham1 said:

Hi,

Your CP995 shot is the kind that will make an amateur like me happy

• the other seems like too much work - bellows and what not. I have

a G3 - do you think its better to use the reverse 50 or 28mm on it
than get a CP995 or CP5700 for macro shots?

BTW, DSLRs offer more depth-of-field. Macros are typically shot at
narrow apertures (f/16 seems popular according to the macro book I
am currently). CP 5700 and G3 offer a max of f/8 or so, right? So
it cant be true that point-and-shoots offer better depth-of-field,
since I can go upto f/32 on my D60. Also I read somewhere that with
a narrower aperture, sharpness goes up - of course, exposure time
also goes up.

But I agree with your statements regarding too much eqipment and
work for non-commercial work.
Thanks.

Anil

Click to expand...

I notice you included the Nikon 5700 in your recommendation list.

I love the Nikon 5700 prosumer digicam. I am a macrophotographer, so I bought one. However, this camera has an optical viewfinder, which will not work for macro photography. You must use either a dslr, or if you want a prosumer cam, it must have an electonic viewfinder (EVF) ... so that what you see is what you get.

Any non-slr that has an optical viewfinder will not display what your sensor is capturing. There is a misalignment of parallax. At distances greater than 3-4 feet, an optical viewfinder is perhaps preferable in a prosumer cam, but up-close the viewfinder and the lens-sensor are not aimed at the same subject matter.

It is a joke to have macro lens capability on a prosumer cam that has an optical viewfinder.

saaketham1 said:

Hi All,

Wanted your opinion as to which you think is the (under $1000)
procumer camera thats best for macros - moderate to extreme
closeups. I am not just looking at the minimum focusing distance,
in which case, I guess the Pentax Optio 550 would win (?) since it
goes as close as 2cm.

I am also wondering about the clarity, depth-of-field in macro mode
and crispness in macro mode.

Based on my limited experience, I would suggest its one of these

1. Nikon Coolpix 995
2. Nikon Coolpix 5000 series (5000, 5400, 5700)
3. Pentax Optio 550 (550, 555)
4. Sony DSC F717 (707)
5. Minolta 7 series

Would love to hear what cameras others nominate? Maybe we could
have a macro shoot out between owners of the different cameras with
jujst the lens that comes with the camera . You could stack up
umpteen numbers of close-up filters and get amazing results, but I
wanted to see which camera does the best out of the box.

I can show you macros with some non-DSLR cameras I have used

1. HP Photosmart 850
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/hp850_flowers

2. Sony DSC F717
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/sony_dscf717

3. Canon G3
http://www.pbase.com/saaketham/canong3_flowers

Anil

Click to expand...

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, the Coolpix 5700 has an Electronic Viewfinder (EVF) and not an OVF. I have used my friend's 5700 and also read reviews that clearly state it has an EVF and not a EVF.

You might be talking about the Coolpix 5400 - it does have an OVF. It can afford to since it has less zoom than the 5700.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am almost + about the 5700 having an EVF.

Anil

-----------------------------
larry reibstein wrote:
-----------------------------

I notice you included the Nikon 5700 in your recommendation list. I love the Nikon 5700 prosumer digicam. I am a macrophotographer, so I bought one. However, this camera has an optical viewfinder, which will not work for macro photography.

sorry ... correction, the Nikon 5700 does have an EVF. I was thinking of the Olympus C5050. Just avoid an optical viewfinder for your prosumer cam.

The Nikon 5700 takes beautiful pictures, but has a focus lock/shutter lag of almost 2 seconds, so if you are shooting outdoors & there is any wind, what you see will not be what you get.

saaketham1 said:

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, the Coolpix 5700 has an Electronic Viewfinder
(EVF) and not an OVF. I have used my friend's 5700 and also read
reviews that clearly state it has an EVF and not a EVF.

You might be talking about the Coolpix 5400 - it does have an OVF.
It can afford to since it has less zoom than the 5700.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am almost + about the 5700
having an EVF.

Anil

-----------------------------
larry reibstein wrote:
-----------------------------
I notice you included the Nikon 5700 in your recommendation list. I
love the Nikon 5700 prosumer digicam. I am a macrophotographer, so
I bought one. However, this camera has an optical viewfinder,
which will not work for macro photography.

Click to expand...

larry reibstein said:

I notice you included the Nikon 5700 in your recommendation list.
I love the Nikon 5700 prosumer digicam. I am a macrophotographer,
so I bought one. However, this camera has an optical viewfinder,
which will not work for macro photography. You must use either a
dslr, or if you want a prosumer cam, it must have an electonic
viewfinder (EVF) ... so that what you see is what you get.

Any non-slr that has an optical viewfinder will not display what
your sensor is capturing. There is a misalignment of parallax. At
distances greater than 3-4 feet, an optical viewfinder is perhaps
preferable in a prosumer cam, but up-close the viewfinder and the
lens-sensor are not aimed at the same subject matter.

It is a joke to have macro lens capability on a prosumer cam that
has an optical viewfinder.

Click to expand...

Hi Larry,

It doesn't have to have an "electronic viewfinder" if it has a ttl LCD which displays 100%. Many of the Nikon digicams have optical viewfinders (almost all the CP series) but they have excellent LCD's which are easily used with an Xtend-a-View to get great macro shots.

This is simply to distinguish between an EVF (electronic viewfinder) which is popular on a number of new digicams, and the color LCD display which can easily be used as the viewfinder.

Lin
--
http://208.56.82.71

Yes, the LCD is a good viewing function, but not if your macros are outdoors in strong light (which so many macros are).

1. Much of what is so wonderful up-close is found in nature - outdoors.
2. To get good depth of field, one uses a small aperature, and
to capture living things or to deal with wind, one needs a fast shutter.

Thus, one needs a lot of light, i.e., outdoor sunlight, which is contraindicative to good LCD viewing.

Lin Evans said:

larry reibstein said:

I notice you included the Nikon 5700 in your recommendation list.
I love the Nikon 5700 prosumer digicam. I am a macrophotographer,
so I bought one. However, this camera has an optical viewfinder,
which will not work for macro photography. You must use either a
dslr, or if you want a prosumer cam, it must have an electonic
viewfinder (EVF) ... so that what you see is what you get.

Any non-slr that has an optical viewfinder will not display what
your sensor is capturing. There is a misalignment of parallax. At
distances greater than 3-4 feet, an optical viewfinder is perhaps
preferable in a prosumer cam, but up-close the viewfinder and the
lens-sensor are not aimed at the same subject matter.

It is a joke to have macro lens capability on a prosumer cam that
has an optical viewfinder.

Click to expand...

Hi Larry,

It doesn't have to have an "electronic viewfinder" if it has a ttl
LCD which displays 100%. Many of the Nikon digicams have optical
viewfinders (almost all the CP series) but they have excellent
LCD's which are easily used with an Xtend-a-View to get great macro
shots.

This is simply to distinguish between an EVF (electronic
viewfinder) which is popular on a number of new digicams, and the
color LCD display which can easily be used as the viewfinder.

Lin
--
http://208.56.82.71

Click to expand...

I agree with Larry up to a point. However, there are some shots that can only be taken using an LCD screen (or an eyepice attachment) such as fungi, with the camera resting on the ground. I don't recommend laying down in the dew on a cold Autumn morning to take these shots. A low level shot can sometimes produce an interesting new viewpoint for a picture.

larry reibstein said:

1. Much of what is so wonderful up-close is found in nature -
outdoors.
2. To get good depth of field, one uses a small aperature, and
to capture living things or to deal with wind, one needs a fast
shutter.
Thus, one needs a lot of light, i.e., outdoor sunlight, which is
contraindicative to good LCD viewing.

Lin Evans said:

larry reibstein said:

I notice you included the Nikon 5700 in your recommendation list.
I love the Nikon 5700 prosumer digicam. I am a macrophotographer,
so I bought one. However, this camera has an optical viewfinder,
which will not work for macro photography. You must use either a
dslr, or if you want a prosumer cam, it must have an electonic
viewfinder (EVF) ... so that what you see is what you get.

Any non-slr that has an optical viewfinder will not display what
your sensor is capturing. There is a misalignment of parallax. At
distances greater than 3-4 feet, an optical viewfinder is perhaps
preferable in a prosumer cam, but up-close the viewfinder and the
lens-sensor are not aimed at the same subject matter.

It is a joke to have macro lens capability on a prosumer cam that
has an optical viewfinder.

Click to expand...

Hi Larry,

It doesn't have to have an "electronic viewfinder" if it has a ttl
LCD which displays 100%. Many of the Nikon digicams have optical
viewfinders (almost all the CP series) but they have excellent
LCD's which are easily used with an Xtend-a-View to get great macro
shots.

This is simply to distinguish between an EVF (electronic
viewfinder) which is popular on a number of new digicams, and the
color LCD display which can easily be used as the viewfinder.

Lin
--
http://208.56.82.71

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

larry reibstein said:

Yes, the LCD is a good viewing function, but not if your macros are
outdoors in strong light (which so many macros are).

1. Much of what is so wonderful up-close is found in nature -
outdoors.
2. To get good depth of field, one uses a small aperature, and
to capture living things or to deal with wind, one needs a fast
shutter.
Thus, one needs a lot of light, i.e., outdoor sunlight, which is
contraindicative to good LCD viewing.

Click to expand...

--

Hi Larry,

Did you look at the macro of the bee? That was taken outdoors in very bright sunlight using the LCD on my Nikon CP995. I have thousands of excellent macros taken in the brightest sunlight outside using the LCD of my CP950, CP990 and CP4500.

You missed a very important part of what I said and apparently are missing an important feature of being able to use your LCD in bright sunlight.

Yes, you can't see the LCD in bright sunlight "unless" you have the proper sunshade. If you do, it's as easy as using the optical viewfinder on your SLR. Remember I said "Xtend-a-View?"

Go here:

http://www.photosolve.com

Lin
http://208.56.82.71

Roger,

I agree with you 100% on the low-level shot statement. I am fond of that myself. I like macro shots that does not just look pretty and sharp. I like to see subjects in their environments and to see the whole micro-world down there among which your subject is one important part.

I am not so good at macros, but slowly getting there. Still, here's one of a dandelion (I think!) I took with a G3. I added a Sunburst effect in PSP 8.



Anil

------------------------------
Roger Gibbons wrote:

I agree with Larry up to a point. However, there are some shots that can only be taken using an LCD screen (or an eyepice attachment) such as fungi, with the camera resting on the ground. I don't recommend laying down in the dew on a cold Autumn morning to take these shots. A low level shot can sometimes produce an interesting new viewpoint for a picture.

Look at field of view (size of an object you can capture), distortion, etc.

The Nikon swiveled bodied models (Nikon Coolpix 950, 990, 995, 4500) can all "fill the frame" with an object as small as 0.7 inches across, with virtually no distortion (just find the lens "sweet spot" at around mid zoom -- the macro icon will change colors when you're there).

No other cameras, straight from the box, can even come close - not even other Nikons.

Check out Phil's tests for any of the Swivel Bodied Nikons. Here's is recent Quote from his macro test for the Coolpix 4500 (the 950, 990, or 995 can also do this)

"As we've come to expect of Nikon's split bodied Coolpix range the 4500's macro capabilities go way beyond any other prosumer digital camera. Engage macro mode and zoom into the macro 'sweet spot' at about half zoom (indicated by the macro icon turning yellow). You can now focus as close as 1 cm from the subject and that produces an amazing frame coverage of just 17 mm (2/3 in). Better still because you're at half zoom you'll get no distortion and very little corner softness. Absolutely superb."

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp4500/page15.asp

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z

I do have the CP4500...

There is some shutter lag involved and you will want to zoom somewhere around 2X so that you don't have the barrel distortion on the wide end or the tele end...
the manual focus is cr_ap...
You have to rely on the AF only.
******************************************
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/40625

BTW, You've also got BSS (Best Shot Selector). When taking macros, set the camera to BSS mode, press and hold the shutter button down until it captures about 5 images (usually enough for one to be very sharp, even at slower shutter speeds).

When you release the shutter button, it will automatically save the sharpest one (probably by saving the photo with the largest file size, which indicates more detail captured). I've even used this technique, to capture photos hand holding a Nikon Coolpix 950 directly to a Microscope lens, snapping off 600x photos (through the microscope) at low shutter speeds without any kind of lens adapter or tripod.

Jim Cockfield said:

Look at field of view (size of an object you can capture),
distortion, etc.

The Nikon swiveled bodied models (Nikon Coolpix 950, 990, 995,
4500) can all "fill the frame" with an object as small as 0.7
inches across, with virtually no distortion (just find the lens
"sweet spot" at around mid zoom -- the macro icon will change
colors when you're there).

No other cameras, straight from the box, can even come close - not
even other Nikons.

Check out Phil's tests for any of the Swivel Bodied Nikons. Here's
is recent Quote from his macro test for the Coolpix 4500 (the 950,
990, or 995 can also do this)

"As we've come to expect of Nikon's split bodied Coolpix range the
4500's macro capabilities go way beyond any other prosumer digital
camera. Engage macro mode and zoom into the macro 'sweet spot' at
about half zoom (indicated by the macro icon turning yellow). You
can now focus as close as 1 cm from the subject and that produces
an amazing frame coverage of just 17 mm (2/3 in). Better still
because you're at half zoom you'll get no distortion and very
little corner softness. Absolutely superb."

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp4500/page15.asp

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z

Click to expand...

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z