sportyaccordy
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All most people need for photography is a cell phone. Standalone cameras have to sell on what people want, and small sensor fixed lens cameras generally don't have that.
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Have camera makers "abandoned" entry level?
- Thread starter Joseph S Wisniewski
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tbcass
Forum Pro
As I've said many times, what we need and want are 2 different things. If all I could have for photography were what I needed the hobby would hold no interest to me anymore so I would give it up.
Very true. That is the worst loss I see for folks that might want to enter the hobby. I strongly believe this is the place they should start. There are a lot of used ones available, but I believe new beginners are better off with new, just on the chance that something is wrong or how the used one might be set up by the previous owner and the new beginner would not likely know how to fix or what might be wrong.
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
New cameras need set up too. Most problems can be solved by checking free resources like the user manual. So I don't think new is worth paying 50-100% more for.
For me it for sure isn't worth it. I was just concerned with a brand new hobbyist not having any idea what might be set up wrong in a used camera or being able to tell if it had a problem. If they have someone knowledgeable to help them it should be fine, but if on their own, it might be a problem.
OpticsEngineer
Veteran Member
for smart phones
I can only think of my sister in law, an English teacher and mother. She tells me her smart phone takes better pictures than her Canon T3i with its 18-55 kit lens. I suppose she is right, at least in the way she uses them.
I can only think of my sister in law, an English teacher and mother. She tells me her smart phone takes better pictures than her Canon T3i with its 18-55 kit lens. I suppose she is right, at least in the way she uses them.
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
I can't imagine anyone selling a used camera without doing a factory reset. I don't think this is an issue
I expect that , particulary non camera nerds, will sell the camera as it is without thinking or bothering to do a full camera factory reset. In fact many would not even know how to do it.
Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
That's exactly the reason I'd tell newbies to shun the latest and look at used gear.
A used camera will have tens of thousands of experienced users willing to help, including "do A, B, and C to perform a factor reset, then change X, Y, and Z".
Cherry_F
Senior Member
Don't underestimate a fact: the new buyer might be happy to inherit from the previous owner's settings. Settings he/she would never dream to achieve :-D
forest dream
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If camera built-in internal storage (e.g. Ricoh GRIII), are it possible new buyer inherite previous owner's photo?
User4286416121
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The market abandoned cameras.
With digital a lot of people bought cameras.
If you wanted or needed pictures, cameras were the only way.
When that died down, or phones, then we might* return to previous generation of demand. Give or take due to digital ease. But other forces lowered that amount.
Etc etc
*it may be semantics but..
I do not see phones competing as much as I see them taking market away with those who were not camera people. As the phones progress they can take some market from camera people but more from...
It is true that if there were no phone cameras the only game in town would be dedicated cameras. With comitant market share. Again the ease of digital and the timing created a huge boon. Short-lived.. but as it was
With digital a lot of people bought cameras.
If you wanted or needed pictures, cameras were the only way.
When that died down, or phones, then we might* return to previous generation of demand. Give or take due to digital ease. But other forces lowered that amount.
Etc etc
*it may be semantics but..
I do not see phones competing as much as I see them taking market away with those who were not camera people. As the phones progress they can take some market from camera people but more from...
It is true that if there were no phone cameras the only game in town would be dedicated cameras. With comitant market share. Again the ease of digital and the timing created a huge boon. Short-lived.. but as it was
forest dream
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Good example.
- "Smart"phone enough smart, assist novice to capture "good enough" photo/video.
- Some "stupid" traditional camera required "smart" consumer's great skills to capture photo/video. IQ of photo/video 100% depends on consumer's skills. Photo taken by camera great because photographer skills, not much related gears. Most of modern camera able capture great photo if handle by good photographer.
IMO smarter camera is welcome. However, not much "smart" camera especially entry-level. May be camera maker not willing huge invest in shrinked market.
P.s. some camera maker more invest on other sector.
Fujifilm Pivoting to Healthcare, But Claims it Won't Abandon Photography
Imaging makes up just 13% of the company's revenue now, and will continue to shrink.
petapixel.com
Sample of "smart" camera (better than phone)
- Nikon Z9 - Nikon 3D Focus Tracking tech just automatically shifts the focus point to follow the movement of the subject. With the shutter release pressed halfway, you'll see in the viewfinder the lens continuously maintain focus as the subject moves. However, maintaining focus doesn't guarantee a sharp image, as there is a short time lag between the release of the shutter and the capture of the picture. To solve this problem, the focus tracking system is a predictive system that uses special algorithms to forecast the position of the subject at the moment the image is captured. The prediction is based on a measurement of the subject's movement and speed.
- e-ND - Eletronic Variable ND filter (auto ND). When Auto ND mode, camera will proactively adjust the filter density to find the best exposure level for shooting.
- Automated Manual Focus mode of Ronin 4D with LiDAR (start from 2 minutes 36 second). AMF mode will track subjects and turn the focus wheel during recording, with the option for the camera operator to jump in and manually pull focus when needed. To help in manual focus and AMF modes, there will be LiDAR Waveform available on the monitor to help cinematographers ‘locate focus points and pull focus with extreme precision.’
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I find myself sometimes hesitant to decide which side of the fence I am on. I like my cameras and prefer them as playthings and as a hobby, and they for sure have features that at least presently, cannot be found in cell phone cameras. But as far as others, who have no desire to do anything more than take good photographs in the most differing conditions to share with family and friends, believe at the present state of technology in phones and affordable cameras, the phone wins easily. I hate to admit it, but believe it to be the case. Example, my wife loves to take photos of kids, grandkids, and great grandkids, and has always carried a digital point and shoot in her purse, which is something that gives women an advantage by the way. But since she got a decent phone camera, she has actually taken her point and shoot out of her purse, and only uses the phone, which in her hands outperforms the point and shoots by leaps and bounds. And momma's happy about it which makes things better overall around here I might add. Now I'm afraid she is going to start noticing that my phone does even better than hers and want a new phone next though. :-(
Mackiesback
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Cherry_F
Senior Member
Has this word "savvy" some share etymology with "saving"?
If savvy beginners are hard to find, thrifty photographers are probably quite numerous. I've been one, and still am.
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
In this era of information I don't think it's that unreasonable. Lots of expensive hobbies (cycling comes to mind) have great resale markets and communities/resources to help steer and guide people through them.
I mean when I bought my first camera I admittedly just walked into B&H and bought something that "looked like a real camera" (Fujifilm s6000fd). After that experience I actually did some research and bought my first real camera (D40 kit- used of course!). So maybe I'm just projecting my personal experience. But it doesn't seem that out of line.
It comes from the Latin sapere (to know) via the Portoguese sabe, "he knows".
Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
Why not? There's nothing that binds the "savvy" and the "beginner" to the same subject. One can be "savvy" at researching things on the internet, having great eBay-fu, etc, but still be a "beginner" at photography.
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