Are the phone mfg's pulling our leg again?

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Bob A L

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Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses, now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.

b99e2f11407441998f911dff23e7ce09.jpg

Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?
 
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?? not sure what you are referring to. Yep, I learned that the mfg's will deceive the public with reckless abandon in attempts to glorify their product. And learned that some did not seem to recognize that 1" was an error for the diagonal dimension of the sensor, or maybe thought it was correct? I had just figured that most in this forum knew that the 1" designation for a sensor size was not the diagonal dimension just like the 1/2.3" is not the diagonal dimension of that size sensor. Maybe only us folks that own a 1" sensor camera are aware that 1" is not the diagonal dimension of the sensor.
Is your first post intended to be sarcastic? It does not come across.

using the 1" notation has been standard in advertising material...
Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses, now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.

b99e2f11407441998f911dff23e7ce09.jpg

Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?
That photo doesn't show the M43 sensor size. An M43 sensor is larger than 1".

--
Tom
 
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OK, a bit more clarification. Their picture shows the comparison of their sensors and clearly shows the diagonal dimension of the 1" sensor as 1".

b99e2f11407441998f911dff23e7ce09.jpg
The picture doesn't show any diagonal dimensions of any of them. The labels are the terms used for the sensor sizes. The little diagonal lines are visual fluff.

(The pictures show distinct magenta coloration in the upper left in all of them. Is that terrible thermal noise? No, it's just more visual fluff.)
 
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The way typical sensors in cameras are dimensioned a M43 sensor is .885" diagonal. Which with old math is smaller than the 1" shown in photo for this sensor.
 
The way typical sensors in cameras are dimensioned a M43 sensor is .885" diagonal. Which with old math is smaller than the 1" shown in photo for this sensor.
That photo is wrong. The diagonal of a 1" sensor is only 16mm or .63 inches.
 
Bingo!!! Exactly what I referred to when thread started. That the information being put out there is at the least deceptive or maybe even just plain false.
 
Bingo!!! Exactly what I referred to when thread started. That the information being put out there is at the least deceptive or maybe even just plain false.
It's the industry standard.

It's okay to admit you learn new things. No one is born knowing everything. Accepting you are learning instead of lashing out is a sign of growth.
 
?? not sure what you are referring to. Yep, I learned that the mfg's will deceive the public with reckless abandon in attempts to glorify their product. And learned that some did not seem to recognize that 1" was an error for the diagonal dimension of the sensor, or maybe thought it was correct? I had just figured that most in this forum knew that the 1" designation for a sensor size was not the diagonal dimension just like the 1/2.3" is not the diagonal dimension of that size sensor. Maybe only us folks that own a 1" sensor camera are aware that 1" is not the diagonal dimension of the sensor.
 
?? not sure what you are referring to. Yep, I learned that the mfg's will deceive the public with reckless abandon in attempts to glorify their product. And learned that some did not seem to recognize that 1" was an error for the diagonal dimension of the sensor, or maybe thought it was correct? I had just figured that most in this forum knew that the 1" designation for a sensor size was not the diagonal dimension just like the 1/2.3" is not the diagonal dimension of that size sensor. Maybe only us folks that own a 1" sensor camera are aware that 1" is not the diagonal dimension of the sensor.
Is your first post intended to be sarcastic? It does not come across.

using the 1" notation has been standard in advertising material for some while

The fact that the smaller sensors were marked as strange fractions (1/1.65", 1/1.56", 1/1.28") instead of doing the division is supposed to clue you in they are talking about the optical format notation.

I mean, as others have pointed out, that's where the 4/3" part of MFT comes from, so if you think 1" is tricking people, so is MFT.
 
Don't know how to help further. Try reading missing information post below, it's a good summation. You don't seem to see a problem with posting propaganda showing their sensors with a diagonal dimension indicated that is incorrect, but I do. In all three sensors, they have the sensor size designation shown as the sensor physical dimension corner to corner, which is incorrect. somewhere above in a post I believe someone had a link to the actual formula for developing the sensor size designation, but in essence, a 1" sensor does not measure 1" corner to corner as shown on the advertising photo. The actual dimension should be either 15.7mm or .618"

Here is an explanation with some sensors shown with proper diagonal dimension shown, but unfortunately not the same sizes as the photo, but an example as to how they are dimensioned

31d4b382bf234cd9a50247ef43910f51.jpg
 
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?? not sure what you are referring to. Yep, I learned that the mfg's will deceive the public with reckless abandon in attempts to glorify their product. And learned that some did not seem to recognize that 1" was an error for the diagonal dimension of the sensor, or maybe thought it was correct? I had just figured that most in this forum knew that the 1" designation for a sensor size was not the diagonal dimension just like the 1/2.3" is not the diagonal dimension of that size sensor. Maybe only us folks that own a 1" sensor camera are aware that 1" is not the diagonal dimension of the sensor.
Is your first post intended to be sarcastic? It does not come across.

using the 1" notation has been standard in advertising material for some while

The fact that the smaller sensors were marked as strange fractions (1/1.65", 1/1.56", 1/1.28") instead of doing the division is supposed to clue you in they are talking about the optical format notation.

I mean, as others have pointed out, that's where the 4/3" part of MFT comes from, so if you think 1" is tricking people, so is MFT.
While being aware of the TV tube size notation, one might still consider the diagram on the Xiaomi site showing a large 1" on an arrow pointing from corner to corner as somewhat misleading, as the actual corner to corner measurement of a 1" sensor would be around 0.63".

77388c9c47ad404fbd572f3397026dff.jpg
 
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Thanks for that reinforcement. An even clearer example of how blatant they are. Admittedly it's a pet peeve of mine, but just don't think it's right to put this stuff out there. This one you offered is very evident that they are showing that it is 1" corner to corner, even more clearly than the one I originally posted.
 
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Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses,
No, it's optical zoom using zoom lenses. Here's an incomplete list of actual optical zoom cameras.
  • Sony Xperia 1V: 3 fixed lens cameras, 1 1.5x optical zoom.
  • Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra 5G: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 3x zoom, 1 10x zoom. Other S22 family members only have the 1 zoom camera, the 3x. Samsung has been making zoom cameras since the infamous "S4 zoom" some 13 years ago.
  • Samsung Z-Fold 3: 2 fixed, 1 2x zoom camera.
  • iPhone 13 Pro Max: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 3x optical zoom camera.
  • iQ00 9 pro: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 2.5x optical zoom camera.
  • Vivo X70: 3 fixed lens cameras, 1 5x optical zoom camera.
now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.

b99e2f11407441998f911dff23e7ce09.jpg

Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?
There are only four phones that have launched in the last few years with a lens capable of offering multiple FLs on the same sensor, and they all use the same lens - the xperia 1 iii and iv, and xperia 5 iii and iv. The rest have several prime lenses and use the crop relative to the main sensor to describe their field of view.

The sony cameras have a maximum and minimum FL given for their zoom lens, all the rest give one value - a lens with one FL is not a zoom.
 
Thanks for that reinforcement. An even clearer example of how blatant they are. Admittedly it's a pet peeve of mine, but just don't think it's right to put this stuff out there. This one you offered is very evident that they are showing that it is 1" corner to corner, even more clearly than the one I originally posted.
Have you actually reached out to them about their improperly made marketing materials? Or are you just posting it here.

I dont think they had any intention of causing this unrest, a graphic designer just made a mistake.
 
Because a 1" sensor as used in cameras is only 15.7mm. The photo clearly is marked up per the standard protocol (dimension in center with lines angling to opposite corners) for showing diagonal measurement showing that diagonal measurement as 1" Actually all of the diagonal measurements shown in their photo are wrong, but only the 1" one is being raved about in this article.

0fb8cf833ee449afa8973e9586e69d68.jpg
You simply misinterpreted the intended description of size given in that photo.

What they are about is the size of the sensor NOT the diagonal dimension of it. So, as an example, that 1" in the middle of that sensor tells yo7u that it it is a 1" sensor, nothing to do with the diagonal dimensions.

We all know that a 1" sensor is not 1".



286f6f473e584eb4892b087f9682d527.jpg

Those two lenses are in fact 343mm and 448mm long rispectively but we all understand that the 400mm and 600mm does not refer to that.
 
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Because the M43 sensor is 22.5 mm diagonally, and this photo shows their sensor being 25.4 (1") diagonally. With my calculator 25.4 is 1.128 times 22.5.
That sensor does not have a 1" (25.4 mm) diagonal measurement.

Those names like 1/1.65", 1.56", 1/1.8", and 1" do not refer to the diagonal size of the sensor itself. These names come from old, "technologically obsolete" video tubes … where the measurement refers to the size of the enclosing glass tube, not the smaller size of the active area within. Digital camera specifications still use the obsolete tube names in referring to a set of actual, smaller, sensor sizes.

Even the name "Four Thirds" supposedly relates to this old, archaic convention – not to the 4:3 aspect ratio of Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds sensors.
That's a common error. Olympus has stated officially in interviews and press releases that four thirds refers to both the sensor size and the aspect ratio. Olympus used to wax poetically about the beauty of that aspect ratio.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021205033057/http://www.a-digital-eye.com/Olympus43Q&A.html

That only lasted a couple of weeks before photographers and sites fired back with "are you nuts? It's an ugly aspect ratio that was basically forced on the video world by the need to use round vacuum tubes, and the physics of picture frames!"

Then Oly quietly swept the aspect ratio under the rug, deleted references to it from their own site (although the internet remembers, lol). They even went as far as to show their first four thirds camera in advertisements with a landscape projected on the sensor...

In 16:9 aspect. (and right side up).

They even patented the original four thirds system's combination of aspect ratio, sensor size, and registration distance in order to keep other camera companies from stealing this "innovation". (See claim 1).

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6910814B2/en
 
Now we are gaining on it. Exactly what I meant. Their photo
Rendering. It's not a "photo".
clearly is marked up showing the diagonal of the sensor as 1".
You appear to be operating on a different definition of "clearly" than the rest of the world.

You know what is "clearly marked up"? The model numbers of the sensors.

You know what else is clear in those renders? The sizes are not proportional to the sensor sizes or the vidcon tube sizes.
No way it can be a 1" sensor as we know it in terms of camera sensors which is 15.7 mm diagonal measurement.
And three of the sensors shown have Sony part numbers and the fourth has an Apple model number. You can easily look up all four sensors and see with your own eyes that they all are exactly "as we know in terms of camera sensors". Or you can keep ranting and looking ever sillier.

I have to ask: why are you so hung up on this issue? Did Xaiomi kick your puppy when you were a kid? Run away with your wife? You seem obsessed with ignoring all facts that contradict your rant.
 
Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses,
No, it's optical zoom using zoom lenses. Here's an incomplete list of actual optical zoom cameras.
  • Sony Xperia 1V: 3 fixed lens cameras, 1 1.5x optical zoom.
  • Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra 5G: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 3x zoom, 1 10x zoom. Other S22 family members only have the 1 zoom camera, the 3x. Samsung has been making zoom cameras since the infamous "S4 zoom" some 13 years ago.
  • Samsung Z-Fold 3: 2 fixed, 1 2x zoom camera.
  • iPhone 13 Pro Max: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 3x optical zoom camera.
  • iQ00 9 pro: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 2.5x optical zoom camera.
  • Vivo X70: 3 fixed lens cameras, 1 5x optical zoom camera.
now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.

Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?
There are only four phones that have launched in the last few years with a lens capable of offering multiple FLs on the same sensor, and they all use the same lens - the xperia 1 iii and iv, and xperia 5 iii and iv.
No. What Sony says is that they have the only camera with a particular optical zoom ratio, not that they are the only ones with any sort of optical zoom.
The rest have several prime lenses and use the crop relative to the main sensor to describe their field of view.
And yet the phone makers describe the lenses as "optical zooms", specify different ratios of optical zoom and digital zoom, and enumerate which sensors have zoom lenses and which ones are primes.
The sony cameras have a maximum and minimum FL given for their zoom lens, all the rest give one value - a lens with one FL is not a zoom.
Do you seriously believe that phone maker after phone maker would be using the term "optical zoom" in their spec sheets and advertisements if they didn't have it? Complaints would pour in (mostly from their competitors, masquerading as customers) about it, and various advertising standards agencies would shut that down so fast it would make your head spin.
 
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