love/no love of DXO PureRAW 2

And please spare me from the DXO enthralled users telling me about DXO costs which they say are "justified" - I reject all such opinions.
I should have suggested that you get PureRAW during sales only. Getting it at full (upgrade) price is quite expensive for the features it provides.
Yeah I suppose. But I was expecting they were going to upgrade the original Version to support my new camera, and when I recently shot a batch of images in low light and realize that my old version was not going to be upgraded to support the new camera, I needed the program and had no choice but to buy at the full price. I still think that is wrong regardless what other people have to say.
With PhotoLab, there's one major release each October, and a number of minor releases through the year. I assume PureRAW releases will lag by a few months, and will be based on a heavily cut-down version the latest major PL release codebase. Of course, most PL enhancements are unconnected with the tiny subset of PL features included in PureRAW, so I'm not sure what defines a 'major' release of PR, other than the calendar.

In addition to new features and bug fixes, all the PL releases include support for new cameras and lenses, so you can be lucky/unlucky if your latest camera is included in a minor or major release. But support is never retrospective. It's also slow: DxO takes much longer to support new cameras than do most other software houses. It's usually at least three months, but can be much longer. DxO also does a poor job of communicating when support for new cameras will arrive.
 
I thought Topaz used Lensfun. Am I wrong?
You are wrong. I'm not sure about "Topaz Studio 2" but that is not in the DeNoise and Sharpening tools; and in my eyes, not really something one would put in a standalone sharpening/denoising tool. Studio 2 does raw conversions, so it might be in there. I'm mostly an ACDSee guy, so I'm personally covered with geometric adjustments.

This is more support for my assertion that direct comparisons between PR output and Topaz is a red herring argument. DXO and Topaz have 2 differing workflow assumptions. (See my post below)
Takes years to start in VirtualBox, but I found this meanwhile.

4c16c186cd32451d8750f5373b769314.jpg.png
What does that tell us?
 
I would consider using Topaz or DXO for RAW conversion - but that's just my preference based on long time use of ACR and Adobe's constant enhancing and adding of features including the mask panel which is fabulous to use as part of RAW conversion.

When shooting at say ISO 1000 in low/poor light conditions, I prefer to apply noise reduction before any other edits (unlike applying output sharpening if needed at the end of post). I ran a batch of 100 images through both Topaz and DXO, and Topaz was a pitiful smeared mess as compared to DXO which dealt with each image as needed including applying any needed sharpening.
Sounds a lot like operator error if there's that big of a difference.
Possibly.

I don't usually apply noise reduction to raws; in fact, I rarely find there's any need to apply it at all but I downloaded and tried PureRaw to see what all the fuss was about. I've got Topaz already.

I initially took some shots; using my D7200, of some birds hiding in the shaded parts of a tree in my garden which contained enough noise to give it a go.

I passed the raws through both sets of software using various settings; PureRaw's a bit spartan in that respect and the results were pretty much as I'd expected.

I also compared raws taken using my Z7 but noisy shots were harder to come by. The results were as with the D7200.

Unsurprisingly, there were some good and some bad results from both.

Deep Prime, for all the raving we hear about it on here didn't outperform Topaz by the huge margins certain people would have you believe it would. In fact, the shots that it turned out badly were, in fact, very bad.

Topaz. likewise produced a mixed bag although its success rate could be improved upon by making adjustments to its settings.

PureRaw was a bit quicker.

Topaz, on the other hand offers more in return for taking a little bit longer.

Ultimately, it's really down to the user to decide which will work best for them.

An aside: I've just downloaded OnOne's No Noise offering as well and first impressions are that it's pretty good.

I haven't really used it yet but I think it's probably fair to say that it compares favourably with the other two.
View attachment 03ffabb9c29c469caa2905f65dccb3b7.jpg
Denoise @ 6400
I use Topaz for some of its interesting adjustment/painting filters now and then but not too often. I also like Topaz Remask, have no use for AI Sharpen. If someone took Topaz out of my tookbox, my reaction would be to yawn.

So yeah I'm annoyed that I had to buy a "major" upgrade to DXO just to have it support my Sony A7iv as the prior version supported my sony A7iii. But whatever - I need what I need and DXO addresses noise reduction beautifully so I grumbled as I paid the upgrade price. Sidenote: i just got clapped for using the banned word "pis*ed" which I had to change to "annoyed" in the first sentence. Really?

I didn't check, but what are the supposed must have "major" upgrades introduced with the latest DXO PureRAW 2?
Edit:

I've just remembered.

PureRaw's DNGs opened and converted to Jpeg/Tif and exported using Capture One don't open normally on here in Photoshop. Instead, they're opened by Camera Raw and treated as if they were still raw files.

Might be my machine, of course but it does render PureRaw, for me at least, pretty useless.

I brought this up in an earlier thead but got no response.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 
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I would consider using Topaz or DXO for RAW conversion - but that's just my preference based on long time use of ACR and Adobe's constant enhancing and adding of features including the mask panel which is fabulous to use as part of RAW conversion.

When shooting at say ISO 1000 in low/poor light conditions, I prefer to apply noise reduction before any other edits (unlike applying output sharpening if needed at the end of post). I ran a batch of 100 images through both Topaz and DXO, and Topaz was a pitiful smeared mess as compared to DXO which dealt with each image as needed including applying any needed sharpening.
Sounds a lot like operator error if there's that big of a difference.
Possibly.

I don't usually apply noise reduction to raws; in fact, I rarely find there's any need to apply it at all but I downloaded and tried PureRaw to see what all the fuss was about. I've got Topaz already.

I initially took some shots; using my D7200, of some birds hiding in the shaded parts of a tree in my garden which contained enough noise to give it a go.

I passed the raws through both sets of software using various settings; PureRaw's a bit spartan in that respect and the results were pretty much as I'd expected.

I also compared raws taken using my Z7 but noisy shots were harder to come by. The results were as with the D7200.

Unsurprisingly, there were some good and some bad results from both.

Deep Prime, for all the raving we hear about it on here didn't outperform Topaz by the huge margins certain people would have you believe it would. In fact, the shots that it turned out badly were, in fact, very bad.

Topaz. likewise produced a mixed bag although its success rate could be improved upon by making adjustments to its settings.

PureRaw was a bit quicker.

Topaz, on the other hand offers more in return for taking a little bit longer.

Ultimately, it's really down to the user to decide which will work best for them.

An aside: I've just downloaded OnOne's No Noise offering as well and first impressions are that it's pretty good.

I haven't really used it yet but I think it's probably fair to say that it compares favourably with the other two.
View attachment 03ffabb9c29c469caa2905f65dccb3b7.jpg
Denoise @ 6400
I use Topaz for some of its interesting adjustment/painting filters now and then but not too often. I also like Topaz Remask, have no use for AI Sharpen. If someone took Topaz out of my tookbox, my reaction would be to yawn.

So yeah I'm annoyed that I had to buy a "major" upgrade to DXO just to have it support my Sony A7iv as the prior version supported my sony A7iii. But whatever - I need what I need and DXO addresses noise reduction beautifully so I grumbled as I paid the upgrade price. Sidenote: i just got clapped for using the banned word "pis*ed" which I had to change to "annoyed" in the first sentence. Really?

I didn't check, but what are the supposed must have "major" upgrades introduced with the latest DXO PureRAW 2?
Edit:

I've just remembered.

PureRaw's DNGs opened and converted to Jpeg/Tif and exported using Capture One don't open normally on here in Photoshop. Instead, they're opened by Camera Raw and treated as if they were still raw files.

Might be my machine, of course but it does render PureRaw, for me at least, pretty useless.

I brought this up in an earlier thead but got no response.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
For me just the opposite. I want the images washed in PureRaw to remain raw so that I can process them in ACR

--
 
Yeah I suppose. But I was expecting they were going to upgrade the original Version to support my new camera, and when I recently shot a batch of images in low light and realize that my old version was not going to be upgraded to support the new camera, I needed the program and had no choice but to buy at the full price. I still think that is wrong regardless what other people have to say.
I am still figuring out what do you mean by "wrong". The business of DxO I suppose?

I came across the term "free economy" these days. A lot of people say that a company is free to sell its product, and a customer is free to buy the product. So there is no right or wrong answer.

Unfortunately I think you are not happy with your purchase. I would rather take note of it, and beware next time if I need to purchase from DxO, I would wait until a promotion.

Still I have quite a lot of software purchased/subscribed, just looking for what suits me most.

--
Annie
https://www.instagram.com/smallpotato.photography/
https://www.smallpotato.photography/
 
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I've just remembered.

PureRaw's DNGs opened and converted to Jpeg/Tif and exported using Capture One don't open normally on here in Photoshop. Instead, they're opened by Camera Raw and treated as if they were still raw files.
Unfortunately I do not have Capture One, so I cannot help testing here. I can just tell you that I do not have such issues with my software combination: DxO (DNG) -> Lightroom/PhotoRAW (JPEG) -> Photoshop Elements
 
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I would consider using Topaz or DXO for RAW conversion - but that's just my preference based on long time use of ACR and Adobe's constant enhancing and adding of features including the mask panel which is fabulous to use as part of RAW conversion.

When shooting at say ISO 1000 in low/poor light conditions, I prefer to apply noise reduction before any other edits (unlike applying output sharpening if needed at the end of post). I ran a batch of 100 images through both Topaz and DXO, and Topaz was a pitiful smeared mess as compared to DXO which dealt with each image as needed including applying any needed sharpening.
Sounds a lot like operator error if there's that big of a difference.
Possibly.

I don't usually apply noise reduction to raws; in fact, I rarely find there's any need to apply it at all but I downloaded and tried PureRaw to see what all the fuss was about. I've got Topaz already.

I initially took some shots; using my D7200, of some birds hiding in the shaded parts of a tree in my garden which contained enough noise to give it a go.

I passed the raws through both sets of software using various settings; PureRaw's a bit spartan in that respect and the results were pretty much as I'd expected.

I also compared raws taken using my Z7 but noisy shots were harder to come by. The results were as with the D7200.

Unsurprisingly, there were some good and some bad results from both.

Deep Prime, for all the raving we hear about it on here didn't outperform Topaz by the huge margins certain people would have you believe it would. In fact, the shots that it turned out badly were, in fact, very bad.

Topaz. likewise produced a mixed bag although its success rate could be improved upon by making adjustments to its settings.

PureRaw was a bit quicker.

Topaz, on the other hand offers more in return for taking a little bit longer.

Ultimately, it's really down to the user to decide which will work best for them.

An aside: I've just downloaded OnOne's No Noise offering as well and first impressions are that it's pretty good.

I haven't really used it yet but I think it's probably fair to say that it compares favourably with the other two.
View attachment 03ffabb9c29c469caa2905f65dccb3b7.jpg
Denoise @ 6400
I use Topaz for some of its interesting adjustment/painting filters now and then but not too often. I also like Topaz Remask, have no use for AI Sharpen. If someone took Topaz out of my tookbox, my reaction would be to yawn.

So yeah I'm annoyed that I had to buy a "major" upgrade to DXO just to have it support my Sony A7iv as the prior version supported my sony A7iii. But whatever - I need what I need and DXO addresses noise reduction beautifully so I grumbled as I paid the upgrade price. Sidenote: i just got clapped for using the banned word "pis*ed" which I had to change to "annoyed" in the first sentence. Really?

I didn't check, but what are the supposed must have "major" upgrades introduced with the latest DXO PureRAW 2?
Edit:

I've just remembered.

PureRaw's DNGs opened and converted to Jpeg/Tif and exported using Capture One don't open normally on here in Photoshop. Instead, they're opened by Camera Raw and treated as if they were still raw files.

Might be my machine, of course but it does render PureRaw, for me at least, pretty useless.

I brought this up in an earlier thead but got no response.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
The dng is treated like a raw file, even though like with LR pano/hdr dng's they are actually tif files in a dng wrapper, so PS opens a dng in camera raw.

Ian
 
For me just the opposite. I want the images washed in PureRaw to remain raw so that I can process them in ACR
They're not raw any more though.

The output files from PureRaw are DNGs; a kind of modifed Tif.

It's these files that I convert using Capture One and which, even though they're exported as Jpegs./Tifs., Photoshop doesn't recognise.


"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 
The dng is treated like a raw file, even though like with LR pano/hdr dng's they are actually tif files in a dng wrapper, so PS opens a dng in camera raw.

Ian
The DNG is treated like a raw file by Capture One and the converted result (supposedly) exported as a Jpeg./Tif.

It's that exported (and supposedly converted) file that opens in Camera Raw.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 
Last edited:
Yeah I suppose. But I was expecting they were going to upgrade the original Version to support my new camera, and when I recently shot a batch of images in low light and realize that my old version was not going to be upgraded to support the new camera, I needed the program and had no choice but to buy at the full price. I still think that is wrong regardless what other people have to say.
I am still figuring out what do you mean by "wrong". The business of DxO I suppose?

I came across the term "free economy" these days. A lot of people say that a company is free to sell its product, and a customer is free to buy the product. So there is no right or wrong answer.
your opinion
Unfortunately I think you are not happy with your purchase.
wrong
I would rather take note of it, and beware next time if I need to purchase from DxO, I would wait until a promotion.

Still I have quite a lot of software purchased/subscribed, just looking for what suits me most.
 
For me just the opposite. I want the images washed in PureRaw to remain raw so that I can process them in ACR
They're not raw any more though.

The output files from PureRaw are DNGs; a kind of modifed Tif.

It's these files that I convert using Capture One and which, even though they're exported as Jpegs./Tifs., Photoshop doesn't recognise.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
okay, by raw in this context I mean not yet converted by a raw converter
 
I thought Topaz used Lensfun. Am I wrong?
You are wrong. I'm not sure about "Topaz Studio 2" but that is not in the DeNoise and Sharpening tools; and in my eyes, not really something one would put in a standalone sharpening/denoising tool. Studio 2 does raw conversions, so it might be in there. I'm mostly an ACDSee guy, so I'm personally covered with geometric adjustments.

This is more support for my assertion that direct comparisons between PR output and Topaz is a red herring argument. DXO and Topaz have 2 differing workflow assumptions. (See my post below)
Takes years to start in VirtualBox, but I found this meanwhile.

4c16c186cd32451d8750f5373b769314.jpg.png
What does that tell us?
It seems I was right, but I was never able to start Topaz Denoise AI in my VirtualBox. But why would Lensfun be in that folder if Topaz DeNoise AI wouldn't use it?

Seems to be a profile for your camera even if it looks a little bit strange from 20mm.

a49434c9da484715914da4aef97cbf0a.jpg.png
 
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For me just the opposite. I want the images washed in PureRaw to remain raw so that I can process them in ACR
They're not raw any more though.

The output files from PureRaw are DNGs; a kind of modifed Tif.
okay, by raw in this context I mean not yet converted by a raw converter
As has been pointed out, any output delivered by PureRAW is no longer RAW. For one thing, the results have been demosaiced. And, obviously, the pixel values have been further modified in order to reduce noise. PureRAW always acts as a RAW converter. Of course that doesn't prevent further processing of the results.
 
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The dng is treated like a raw file, even though like with LR pano/hdr dng's they are actually tif files in a dng wrapper, so PS opens a dng in camera raw.

Ian
The DNG is treated like a raw file by Capture One and the converted result (supposedly) exported as a Jpeg./Tif.

It's that exported (and supposedly converted) file that opens in Camera Raw.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
If I understand correctly you are saying jpg's open in PS Camera Raw? If I remember correctly there is a setting in PS which does this.

Ian
 
The dng is treated like a raw file, even though like with LR pano/hdr dng's they are actually tif files in a dng wrapper, so PS opens a dng in camera raw.

Ian
The DNG is treated like a raw file by Capture One and the converted result (supposedly) exported as a Jpeg./Tif.

It's that exported (and supposedly converted) file that opens in Camera Raw.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
If I understand correctly you are saying jpg's open in PS Camera Raw?
Yes but only Jpegs. (and Tifs.) created from the dngs produced by PureRaw.
If I remember correctly there is a setting in PS which does this.
You can purposely open Jpegs. etc. in Camera Raw; it's listed under 'filters' but that's not what's happening here.

These are opening in Camera Raw by default; bypassing the usual opening in Photoshop itself.

You may be right re. a setting to make this happen but I've been using Photoshop since CS2 and I've never heard of it.

And why only these particular files?
"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 
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I thought Topaz used Lensfun. Am I wrong?
You are wrong. I'm not sure about "Topaz Studio 2" but that is not in the DeNoise and Sharpening tools; and in my eyes, not really something one would put in a standalone sharpening/denoising tool. Studio 2 does raw conversions, so it might be in there. I'm mostly an ACDSee guy, so I'm personally covered with geometric adjustments.

This is more support for my assertion that direct comparisons between PR output and Topaz is a red herring argument. DXO and Topaz have 2 differing workflow assumptions. (See my post below)
Takes years to start in VirtualBox, but I found this meanwhile.

4c16c186cd32451d8750f5373b769314.jpg.png
What does that tell us?
It seems I was right, but I was never able to start Topaz Denoise AI in my VirtualBox. But why would Lensfun be in that folder if Topaz DeNoise AI wouldn't use it?

Seems to be a profile for your camera even if it looks a little bit strange from 20mm.

a49434c9da484715914da4aef97cbf0a.jpg.png
I had the lens at the widest setting in that shot, and no lens correction was being applied. I've just tried a shot from another camera, and again, no lens correction has been applied:



DeNoise AI 3.6.2 — no lens distortion correction
DeNoise AI 3.6.2 — no lens distortion correction



PhotoLab 5 — automatic lens distortion correction
PhotoLab 5 — automatic lens distortion correction
 
The dng is treated like a raw file, even though like with LR pano/hdr dng's they are actually tif files in a dng wrapper, so PS opens a dng in camera raw.

Ian
The DNG is treated like a raw file by Capture One and the converted result (supposedly) exported as a Jpeg./Tif.

It's that exported (and supposedly converted) file that opens in Camera Raw.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
If I understand correctly you are saying jpg's open in PS Camera Raw?
Yes but only Jpegs. (and Tifs.) created from the dngs produced by PureRaw.
If I remember correctly there is a setting in PS which does this.
You can purposely open Jpegs. etc. in Camera Raw; it's listed under 'filters' but that's not what's happening here.

These are opening in Camera Raw by default; bypassing the usual opening in Photoshop itself.

You may be right re. a setting to make this happen but I've been using Photoshop since CS2 and I've never heard of it.

And why only these particular files?
"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
That is really weird. Have you posted this on the DXO forum?

Ian
 
That is really weird. Have you posted this on the DXO forum?

Ian
No.

I must admit, I'd never thought of it.

In reality, I only ever used the trial of PureRaw; I wasn't impressed and once that trial expired, I uninstalled and forgot about it.

I suppose it might be an idea though.

Edit: Is there such a thing as 'The DXO forum . . . ?'

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 
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... If I understand correctly you are saying jpg's open in PS Camera Raw?
Yes but only Jpegs. (and Tifs.) created from the dngs produced by PureRaw.
If I remember correctly there is a setting in PS which does this.
You can purposely open Jpegs. etc. in Camera Raw; it's listed under 'filters' but that's not what's happening here.

These are opening in Camera Raw by default; bypassing the usual opening in Photoshop itself.

You may be right re. a setting to make this happen but I've been using Photoshop since CS2 and I've never heard of it.
I use CS3, and it's an option under Preferences > File Handling:

Prefer Adobe Camera Raw for JPEG Files

63dc58b2608b45e98d5ffbe17a119122.jpg
When it's checked, JPEGs open in Camera Raw.
 
... If I understand correctly you are saying jpg's open in PS Camera Raw?
Yes but only Jpegs. (and Tifs.) created from the dngs produced by PureRaw.
If I remember correctly there is a setting in PS which does this.
You can purposely open Jpegs. etc. in Camera Raw; it's listed under 'filters' but that's not what's happening here.

These are opening in Camera Raw by default; bypassing the usual opening in Photoshop itself.

You may be right re. a setting to make this happen but I've been using Photoshop since CS2 and I've never heard of it.
I use CS3, and it's an option under Preferences > File Handling:

Prefer Adobe Camera Raw for JPEG Files

63dc58b2608b45e98d5ffbe17a119122.jpg

When it's checked, JPEGs open in Camera Raw.


Not these days . . .

b6449db81c2742feac4d763fa1293106.jpg




"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 

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