A7 iv or R iv for the same price?

Fujisonywhat · Jun 15, 2022

A long term Fuji person moving to the world of Sony alpha. I have got my eyes on the A 7iv. However, I have also found the RivA for ‘almost’ the same price locally. Now I am torn.

i am mostly an enthusiastic photographer (people, landscape, cityscape) and not too inclined on the video specs. I know that the 7 iv has relatively better AF and new menu system. But the Riv is also tempting too and I know I will have large files to deal with.

any comments?

Pure Photo NI · Jun 15, 2022

Fujisonywhat said:
A long term Fuji person moving to the world of Sony alpha. I have got my eyes on the A 7iv. However, I have also found the RivA for ‘almost’ the same price locally. Now I am torn.

i am mostly an enthusiastic photographer (people, landscape, cityscape) and not too inclined on the video specs. I know that the 7 iv has relatively better AF and new menu system. But the Riv is also tempting too and I know I will have large files to deal with.

any comments?

We have both.

The A7RIV has spectacular image quality but isn't great for stuff that moves. If you are mainly shooting landscape A7RIV is probably your best option.

Martin_99 · Jun 15, 2022

Also enthusiast amateur with preference for stills here. I use 24Mpx camera now, which I find plenty enough even with heavy crops. So 33Mpx of A7IV is luxury in my point of view. I would surely prefer it's improvements over 61Mpx of A7RIV. Only hesitation is fully articulated screen which I'm not much fan of.

ericdc3365 · Jun 15, 2022

Fujisonywhat said:
A long term Fuji person moving to the world of Sony alpha. I have got my eyes on the A 7iv. However, I have also found the RivA for ‘almost’ the same price locally. Now I am torn.

i am mostly an enthusiastic photographer (people, landscape, cityscape) and not too inclined on the video specs. I know that the 7 iv has relatively better AF and new menu system. But the Riv is also tempting too and I know I will have large files to deal with.

any comments?

Context: photographer, never had good video gear, never took video. Had an A7 II for 4 years.

I just pulled the trigger to trade my A7 II for a used A7R IV. Here are some key points that made me choose A7R IV over the A7 IV.

Higher viewfinder resolution
Higher pixel
I can shoot Compressed Raw and still get good images without sacrificing any storage.

I own 2 Loxia lenses that provide excellent resolution to pair with my A7R IV. I don't rely on autofocus on my images.

I read on Phillipsreeves blog that almost all lenses can benefit from the higher resolution. At this point I had no doubt in my mind I A7R IV is the camera I should get.

Reilly Diefenbach · Jun 15, 2022

Fujisonywhat said:
A long term Fuji person moving to the world of Sony alpha. I have got my eyes on the A 7iv. However, I have also found the RivA for ‘almost’ the same price locally. Now I am torn.

i am mostly an enthusiastic photographer (people, landscape, cityscape) and not too inclined on the video specs. I know that the 7 iv has relatively better AF and new menu system. But the Riv is also tempting too and I know I will have large files to deal with.

any comments?

For landscape, it's not close:

DPR

The r4 also focuses very well.

Fujisonywhat · Jun 15, 2022

Thanks everyone. Buy the sounds of it, I won’t go wrong if I choose either of those bodies. I was only tempted coz of the price similarity. Or else, my first choice was A7iv, partly being newest of the two.

Dave Oddie · Jun 15, 2022

ericdc3365 said:
I just pulled the trigger to trade my A7 II for a used A7R IV. Here are some key points that made me choose A7R IV over the A7 IV.

I can shoot Compressed Raw and still get good images without sacrificing any storage.

Compressed RAW on an A7 R IV is not lossless. It is (or rather can be set to be) lossless on an A7 IV. Also on either camera if you shoot lossy compressed RAW to get the fastest FPS it drops to 12 bit capture.

4Photos · Jun 15, 2022

Fujisonywhat said:
Thanks everyone. Buy the sounds of it, I won’t go wrong if I choose either of those bodies. I was only tempted coz of the price similarity. Or else, my first choice was A7iv, partly being newest of the two.

A7iv is newer, but A7riv has the better sensor. It really depends on what you want. For general photography I would go with the A7iv. If you treasure resolution, if you love cropping images, if you are thrilled that your 50mm lens can double as an 85mm tele, then the A7riv has much going for it.

What lens are you planning to get for the camera?

Craig Gillette · Jun 15, 2022

I have an A7Riv. I haven't done a lot of very active subject matter but it's pretty recent in focus system developments if not the newest. I don't think you should expect problems with people, landscape, or cityscapes.

There's a lot to get through on the menu but a number of recommended settings guides out there. Not entirely consistent form guide to guide. There are a lot of options and figuring out what you want to do can take a while but many common things can also be set to programmed buttons or the fn menu.

I think there are advantages to the higher resolution if you are not looking to the more recent video capabilities.

MikeInOr · Jun 15, 2022

It sounds like my shooting habits are quite close to yours. Casual shooting of people, places and landscapes but with a serious effort to produce quality results and striving to continuously improve my technique. I own an A7RIV and I have absolutely no interest in exchanging it for an A7IV. If the A7IV was out when I purchased my A7RIV it would have been a very hard decision.

Viewfinder: The A7R4 does have a decently higher resolution viewfinder than the A74. For my eyesight I very highly doubt I could tell the difference.

Screen: They both have 1.440k screens. The A7R4 flips up. The A74 flips to the side. Personally I don't really care for either of these configurations. My 10 year old A77 had a fantastic tilt and swivel screen which was vastly superior to either of these two configurations.

Shooting speed: They are both 10fps which is ridiculous for the way I shoot photos. I played with bursts for about 5 minutes then went back to composing every shot then shooting the way I have for the past 45 years.

Image quality sans resolution: Both cameras are capable of astounding photographs if you are any kind of photographer at all. The color depth and dynamic range differences are minor. In my opinion so are the ISO differences. People seem to obsess over these specs but in my experience the real world differences are inconsequential.

Resolution: To me this is the biggest difference between the two cameras. For photos out of the camera there is nothing short of a huge wall mural that is going to highlight the differences between 61mp and 33mp. An 8K HDTV is equivalent to 33.2mp. So for any kind of electronic display any detectable differences are going to be VERY minimal IMHO. How often do you print REALLY REALLY big?

Cropping: This is an area that I do truly enjoy the 61mp from the A7R4. I never really did much cropping on my old 24mp APS camera. I find that I crop a LOT more because I have 61mp and don't worry about not having enough resolution for a suitable print. I usually carry my 24-105 F4 lens and 12-24 F4 lens. I don't shoot a lot of telephoto so when I do I just shoot at 105mm and crop in post. This reduces the weight I have to carry and also reduces lens swapping. I REALLY appreciate this facet of the A7R4! This summer I will be experimenting with just carrying the VERY compact 28-60 lens on trips where photography will be a secondary purpose and saving the 24-105 and 12-24 for photo specific outings. I will evaluate at the end of the summer if I like this approach or if I miss ALWAYS having my high end lenses with me.

Auto focus: I will be honest, I have never owned an FE camera other than my A7R4. To me the auto-focus on the A7R4 is phenomenal! Coming from a 10 year old Sony A77 APS camera the subject identification and focusing on the A7R4 has changed the way I shoot and it has taken some getting used to. For 35 years I have focused on the main subject in the center of the frame then recomposed the shot before firing. Having a camera that picks the main subject for you is a big change. I don't know how much real difference in focusing there is between the A74 and the A7R4 but my gut feeling is that it is pretty minimal in real world terms that are meaningful to me. The photos that I have taken of moving subjects have had a VERY high keeper rate with my A7R4! Maybe if I shot a lot of moving birds or sports I might see a difference between the two cameras but for what I shoot my gut feeling is that there is no practical difference.

Menu design: Unlike many here I don't change my gear like I change my underware. So I learn the nuances of what ever camera GUI I am using and run with it. Maybe the new interface is easier to use? For me I do not need to learn yet another interface. There is so much capability and complexity to any new camera that it takes a LONG time to learn all the nuances of a camera and even start scratching the surface of its capabilities.

Video: For the few videos that I shoot 1080 is plenty of resolution for me. Anything past that is just a waste for me.

Personally I don't think you could go wrong with either camera. I will be sticking with my A7RIV for MANY years as I am VERY pleased with it!

havoc315 · Jun 15, 2022

They have very different pros.

The Riv has one major pro -- The significantly higher resolution.

Then the Riv has a few more minor advantages -- Better EVF, pixel shift mode.

Meanwhile, the A7iv has a long list of "medium" sized advantages -- Better focus system,, CF card slot, touch fully articulated LCD, customizable exposure dial, better video features, better networking..

I think most shooters (myself included) are better off with the A7iv. 33mp resolution is plenty for 100% of uses for 97% of users.

Brief thumbnail: If you shoot a lot of video, the A7iv is going to be better for you.

If you shoot large fine art prints or similar, the A7riv may be better, with a real advantage of getting as much resolution as possible.

For those rarely (or never) making 40'+ prints for close inspection, the A7iv is probably the better choice.

Fujisonywhat · Jun 15, 2022

MikeInOr said:
It sounds like my shooting habits are quite close to yours. Casual shooting of people, places and landscapes but with a serious effort to produce quality results and constantly striving to continuously improve my technique. I own an A7RIV and I have absolutely no interest in exchanging it for an A7IV. If the A7IV was out when I purchased my A7RIV is would have been a very hard decision.

Viewfinder: The A7R4 does have a decently higher resolution viewfinder than the A74. For my eyesight I very highly doubt I could tell the difference.

Screen: They both have 1.440k screens. The A7R4 flips up. The A74 flips to the side. Personally I don't really care for either of these configurations. My 10 year old A77 had a fantastic tilt and swivel screen which was vastly superior to either of these two configurations.

Shooting speed: They are both 10fps which is ridiculous for the way I shoot photos. I played with bursts for about 5 minutes then went back to composing every shot then shooting the way I have for the past 45 years.

Image quality sans resolution: Both cameras are capable of astounding photographs if you are any kind of photographer at all. The color depth and dynamic range differences are minor. In my opinion so are the ISO differences. People seem to obsess over these specs but in my experience the real world differences are inconsequential.

Resolution: To me this is the biggest difference between the two cameras. For photos out of the camera there is nothing short of a huge wall mural that is going to highlight the differences between 61mp and 33mp. An 8K HDTV is equivalent to 33.2mp. So for any kind of electronic display any detectable differences are going to be VERY minimal IMHO. How often do you print REALLY REALLY big?

Cropping: This is an area that I do truly enjoy the 61mp from the A7R4. I never really did much cropping on my old 24mp APS camera. I find that I crop a LOT more because I have 61mp and don't worry about not having enough resolution for a suitable print. I usually carry my 24-105 F4 lens and 12-24 F4 lens. I don't shoot a lot of telephoto so when I do I just shoot at 105mm and crop in post. This reduces the weight I have to carry and also reduces lens swapping. I REALLY appreciate this facet of the A7R4! This summer I will be experimenting with just carrying the VERY compact 28-60 lens on trips where photography will be a secondary purpose and saving the 24-105 and 12-24 for photo specific outings. I will evaluate at the end of the summer if I like this approach or if I miss ALWAYS having my high end lenses with me.

Auto focus: I will be honest, I have never owned an FE camera other than my A7R4. To me the auto-focus on the A7R4 is phenomenal! Coming from a 10 year old Sony A77 APS camera the subject identification and focusing on the A7R4 has changed the way I shoot and it has taken some getting used to. For 35 years I have focused on the main subject in the center of the frame then recomposed the shot before firing. Having a camera that picks the main subject for you is a big change. I don't know how much real difference in focusing there is between the A74 and the A7R4 but my gut is that it is pretty minimal in real world terms that are meaningful to me. The photos that I have taken of moving subjects have had a VERY high keeper rate with my A7R4! Maybe if I shot a lot of moving birds or sports I might see a difference between the two cameras but for what I shoot my gut feeling is that there is no practical difference.

Menu design: Unlike many here I don't change my gear like I change my underware. So I learn the nuances of what ever camera GUI I am using and run with it. Maybe the new interface is easier to use? For me I do not need to learn yet another interface. There is so much capability and complexity to any new camera that it takes a LONG time to learn all the nuances of a camera and even start scratching the surface of its capabilities.

Video: For the few videos that I shoot 1080 is plenty of resolution for me. Anything past that is just a waste for me.

Personally I don't think you could go wrong with either camera. I will be sticking with my A7RIV for MANY years as I am VERY pleased with it!

yep that was a very detailed summary. Definitely agree that I won’t go wrong with either. Leaning towards Riv. 7iv is more of a hybrid camera so I am not at all a video person., so for me it’s kind of wasted features on that front. I do crop a decent amount of my pics, so more MP come in handy. Will give some final thought and then think of the choice. Again, it’s only tempting coz of similar prices (for me locally)

Btw, I will go for sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 to start with.

Fujisonywhat · Jun 15, 2022

havoc315 said:
They have very different pros.

The Riv has one major pro -- The significantly higher resolution.

Then the Riv has a few more minor advantages -- Better EVF, pixel shift mode.

Meanwhile, the A7iv has a long list of "medium" sized advantages -- Better focus system,, CF card slot, touch fully articulated LCD, customizable exposure dial, better video features, better networking..

I think most shooters (myself included) are better off with the A7iv. 33mp resolution is plenty for 100% of uses for 97% of users.

Brief thumbnail: If you shoot a lot of video, the A7iv is going to be better for you.

If you shoot large fine art prints or similar, the A7riv may be better, with a real advantage of getting as much resolution as possible.

For those rarely (or never) making 40'+ prints for close inspection, the A7iv is probably the better choice.

Sensible advice. The IV is a new machine and have better improvements overall.

MikeInOr · Jun 15, 2022

Fujisonywhat said:
yep that was a very detailed summary. Definitely agree that I won’t go wrong with either. Leaning towards Riv. 7iv is more of a hybrid camera so I am not at all a video person., so for me it’s kind of wasted features on that front. I do crop a decent amount of my pics, so more MP come in handy. Will give some final thought and then think of the choice. Btw, I will go for sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 to start with.

I love my 24-105 and 12-24 lenses but they are big and heavy to carry around. If I were to buy a new kit today knowing what I know now I would probably also go with something along the lines of the 28-70 F/2.8.

VisionLight · Jun 15, 2022

Pure Photo NI said:
We have both.

The A7RIV has spectacular image quality but isn't great for stuff that moves.

I would disagree with the highlighted section of that statement. While the A7R IV is NOT the A1, it is quite capable of capturing moving subjects when used properly.

Just saying.

Pure Photo NI said:
If you are mainly shooting landscape A7RIV is probably your best option.

But yes, for landscapes, the A7R IV is incredible.

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havoc315 · Jun 15, 2022

Reilly Diefenbach said:
For landscape, it's not close:

DPR

I'll firmly disagree. Normalize for size, and it is beyond close. In fact, indistinguishable. Yes, if you examine a 60 inch print closely, you'll see that difference. But not on a large 20-30 inch print.

So from these extreme crops below, can you pick out which came from the R4 and which came from the A7iv?

44df994df0b8414eb80039ed7bc77ba9.jpg.png

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havoc315 · Jun 15, 2022

VisionLight said:
But yes, for landscapes, the A7R IV is incredible.

Yes it is.

And so is the A7iv...

I actually have a slight preference for the A7iv over the A7riv for landscapes, thanks to better DR at my most common ISOs..

7caac33bfe8b4c28944d9f7da58a1ee2.jpg.png

But I certainly don't dislike the R4 for landscapes. Just prefer the quality of the images out of the A7iv. If I was printing a 60'+ landscape print, I'd probably prefer the R4 for that purpose.

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Reilly Diefenbach · Jun 16, 2022

havoc315 said:
Reilly Diefenbach said:

For landscape, it's not close:

DPR

Click to expand...

I'll firmly disagree. Normalize for size, and it is beyond close. In fact, indistinguishable.

I never downsize unless it's to get under the 200MP limit on Flickr. Why would I? I want people to be able to pick out the details, as in count every leaf on every tree.

havoc315 said:
Yes, if you examine a 60 inch print closely, you'll see that difference. But not on a large 20-30 inch print.

I don't care about prints. Any old camera looks okay with a print.

havoc315 said:
So from these extreme crops below, can you pick out which came from the R4 and which came from the A7iv?

I'm not playing that game, I'm playing this one:

determining our bearings. a7r4 left, a74 right

DPR

More detail equals a better landscape camera, period, and a 117 MP raw beats 42 every time. Greater resolution, less moire and false color. I've gone through 36MP with the Nikon D800e, up to 46 with the D850 and now 61 with the r4, and I'm not looking to downgrade or to recommend that anyone else do so. The r4 is easily the best full frame sensor for just about any purpose (including high ISO,) especially for landscape and birds.

Reilly Diefenbach · Jun 16, 2022

havoc315 said:
VisionLight said:

But yes, for landscapes, the A7R IV is incredible.

Click to expand...

Yes it is.

And so is the A7iv...

Might have wanted to take out the wires on this one.

havoc315 said:
I actually have a slight preference for the A7iv over the A7riv for landscapes, thanks to better DR at my most common ISOs..

The r4 has a slight advantage at ISO 100, the landscaper's best friend. Might come in handy at sunrise or set.

havoc315 said:
But I certainly don't dislike the R4 for landscapes. Just prefer the quality of the images out of the A7iv. If I was printing a 60'+ landscape print, I'd probably prefer the R4 for that purpose.

havoc315 · Jun 16, 2022

Reilly Diefenbach said:
havoc315 said:

VisionLight said:

But yes, for landscapes, the A7R IV is incredible.

Click to expand...

Yes it is.

And so is the A7iv...

Click to expand...

Might have wanted to take out the wires on this one.

Yeah... just a quick shot as I was testing a new ND filter, didn't bother with extensive editing.

Reilly Diefenbach said:
Reilly Diefenbach said:

I actually have a slight preference for the A7iv over the A7riv for landscapes, thanks to better DR at my most common ISOs..

Click to expand...

The r4 has a slight advantage at ISO 100, the landscaper's best friend. Might come in handy at sunrise or set.

If I can shoot at ISO 100, either because of tons of light or a tripod, then I can shoot at ISO 50, where the A7r4 and A7iv have virtually identical DR. And between ISO 400-6400, where I'm handheld, the A7iv has a pretty decent advantage.

I still have my R3 for when I want the best low ISO photos, I returned the R4, really didn't like the IQ out of the camera. Essentially felt like an ISO-100-landscape-only camera. Yes, it can definitely do more than shoot landscapes at ISO-100, but for everything else, other cameras are better. For any type of action, other cameras have better focus systems and faster/better buffers for shooting bursts... For higher ISO photos, other cameras (as per the graph) have better ISO and noise performance. For video, etc.

Reilly Diefenbach said:
Reilly Diefenbach said:

But I certainly don't dislike the R4 for landscapes. Just prefer the quality of the images out of the A7iv. If I was printing a 60'+ landscape print, I'd probably prefer the R4 for that purpose.

Click to expand...

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A7 iv or R iv for the same price?

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