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Tightness of tripod legs factor in tripod vibration in wind?

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darinb

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Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)

--Darin
 
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
No. Because I clip something of weight to the dedicated eyelet at the bottom of my center pole. I don’t like the center pole, but….I bought my tripod anyway and it’s great. You need to add weight to the setup so it doesn’t vibrate due to the wind.
 
This scenario just sounds very strange
 
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
That might be more likely if you're manually pressing the shutter button, rather than time delay or remote release. If you're touching the body/lens, that's like using a monopod where IS helps.

With dead weight added to compensate for a strong breeze, how tight the hinge points are at the spider shouldn't really matter. If the tripod is fully locked down, I can't use image stabilization. I think mine deactivates using time delay or wired remote.
 
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
I wonder if your loose(r) joints before were effectively damping some vibration, soaking it up as it were before, but now that they're tight the vibration is being more effectively transmitted through the entire tripod?
 
I second what lewiedude mentioned. Get some sturdy netting and an S hook and wrap a rock in the netting to make the tripod more steady. I'm sure there are lots of rocks in your area.

Kent
 
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the comments about adding weight etc.

I guess what I was really asking is a question for an engineer, something along the lines of "Can tightening the leg screws change the resonance of a tripod" if that is the correct way to phrase it.

Thanks,

--Darin
 
Len Philpot said:
I wonder if your loose(r) joints before were effectively damping some vibration, soaking it up as it were before, but now that they're tight the vibration is being more effectively transmitted through the entire tripod?
Click to expand...
I think Len might have a reasonable hunch. You may have had a little bit of wind-induced vibration before (not necessarily noticeable) with the slight slop in the legs acting as an attenuator (of sorts). But there probably was some movement previously. Now, with tightened legs, the previous (slight) attenuating factor has been eliminated, maybe? Interesting concept. Years ago, I had on-tripod tele-lens sharpness issues (during long exposures @ night) - with and without wind. And yes, I tried VR-on and VR-off (although the 80-400G VR is supposedly designed for "tripod-mode" usage). Excellent lens under normal hand-held usage (and with faster shutter speeds on tripod). Anyway, the long-exposure "fuzziness" was due to the pi$$-poor lens mount that Nikon supplied with the 80-400G. Replaced the stock foot with a Kirk collar/foot - problem solved.
 
darinb said:
Thanks for all the comments about adding weight etc.

I guess what I was really asking is a question for an engineer, something along the lines of "Can tightening the leg screws change the resonance of a tripod" if that is the correct way to phrase it.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
Theoretically, I would say YES.
 
Len Philpot said:
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
I wonder if your loose(r) joints before were effectively damping some vibration, soaking it up as it were before, but now that they're tight the vibration is being more effectively transmitted through the entire tripod?
Click to expand...
That's along the lines of what I was wondering. Then I started wondering if some sort of tightening technique--maybe tightening each leg a different amount--might do something useful. I've used this tripod for a couple of years and never noticed the weird issue before--but I usually don't bother tightening it (it comes loose within days, though I was thinking of using a little loc-tite).

Anyway, it makes you wonder if there isn't a whole list possibilities to improve tripods aside from making them more rigid. And *then* you realize that we not far at all from not caring as IBIS, if tuned for tripods, will make even a undersized, cheap, bouncy tripod very solid. :)

--Darin
 
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
From a logic standpoint, I don't see how loose legs would do this.

Shooting video with a long lens in a steady wind once with a loose legged tripod and once with a tightened legged tripod instead of stills should show the results clearly.

The owner of this website tests tripods and rates them based on science, he defines, explains and demonstrates how tripod quality is a component of Stiffness and Dampening https://thecentercolumn.com/testing...stant means,world when using telephoto lenses.

However, I don't see how loose leg joints would contribute to dampening. It would be interesting to invite the owner of that website to discuss the issue
 
Last edited:
Darin, I'm 80 now and in my younger years I would lug a heavy Monfretto tripod but not any longer unless it's opening my car door and walking a few feet to set it up. Now I have a lightweight Feisol (1 kg with head) and it's not nearly as sturdy, but much easier to carry. Guess that's a trade off.

Kent
 
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
Stiffness and damping are often at odds in tripod design. Damping of vibrations occurs when you have some sort of friction in the system to absorb energy. Loose leg sections rubbing against each other can easily be enough. When you tighten the locks down it prevents that rubbing from happening and stiffens the whole system up. It will now be slightly more resistant to inducing vibrations in the first place, but those vibrations won't die out quickly. This will be particularly noticeable with longer lenses and windy conditions where the system is getting pushed around constantly. Some tripods are designed well to incorporate this kind of frictional damping into the design, mostly those with a rubber top plate that sits between the tripod and the head. Many are not.

So there are some solutions:

1) Get a better tripod.

2). Artificially induce some external damping. This will require some experimentation and creativity. Sometimes hanging weight helps, sometimes not.

I don't really recommend un-tightening the legs as this will leave the tripod more susceptible to unwanted collapse.
 
Maybe as I suspected then. Good to hear from a tripod expert.

My first thought, as you might have guessed, was to order an RRS and sell this Fiesol Tournament (which I saw didn’t do so well on your site). Except for that when you go to the RRS order page is says this at the top:

“Abandon hope all who enter here”

which I thought was odd until I saw that the tripod are sold out more or less forever—not even taking back orders anymore. They say they want to catch up first on the existing back orders, sigh.

So I did two things instead: I ordered the center pole for my tripod, which has the hook, and I dusted off my heavier Gitzo, which I used last night and I suspect you could hit with a truck without getting any blur. But it’s sort of heavy, alas.

—Darin
 
darinb said:
Maybe as I suspected then. Good to hear from a tripod expert.

My first thought, as you might have guessed, was to order an RRS and sell this Fiesol Tournament (which I saw didn’t do so well on your site). Except for that when you go to the RRS order page is says this at the top:
Click to expand...
The Feisol Tournament tripods have a notoriously narrow leg angle which really inhibits their performance. I have measured it at 19-20 degrees to the vertical whereas ideally tripods are more like 24-25 degrees. Measure this angle yourself (can use a phone app) to confirm. But one potential fix is to file down the leg angle stops to the desired value and that will greatly improve performance.
darinb said:
“Abandon hope all who enter here”

which I thought was odd until I saw that the tripod are sold out more or less forever—not even taking back orders anymore. They say they want to catch up first on the existing back orders, sigh.

So I did two things instead: I ordered the center pole for my tripod, which has the hook, and I dusted off my heavier Gitzo, which I used last night and I suspect you could hit with a truck without getting any blur. But it’s sort of heavy, alas.

—Darin
Click to expand...
 
Hamiltionian said:
darinb said:
Maybe as I suspected then. Good to hear from a tripod expert.

My first thought, as you might have guessed, was to order an RRS and sell this Fiesol Tournament (which I saw didn’t do so well on your site). Except for that when you go to the RRS order page is says this at the top:
Click to expand...
The Feisol Tournament tripods have a notoriously narrow leg angle which really inhibits their performance. I have measured it at 19-20 degrees to the vertical whereas ideally tripods are more like 24-25 degrees. Measure this angle yourself (can use a phone app) to confirm. But one potential fix is to file down the leg angle stops to the desired value and that will greatly improve performance.
Hamiltionian said:
“Abandon hope all who enter here”

which I thought was odd until I saw that the tripod are sold out more or less forever—not even taking back orders anymore. They say they want to catch up first on the existing back orders, sigh.

So I did two things instead: I ordered the center pole for my tripod, which has the hook, and I dusted off my heavier Gitzo, which I used last night and I suspect you could hit with a truck without getting any blur. But it’s sort of heavy, alas.

—Darin
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Oh, you don’t need t measure the leg angle—it’s so narrow that just adding a lens shade threatens to overbalance it. :) You really have to make sure it si level when you use it—with other tripods if you are in a hurry and the thing is cockeyed no big deal, but not with this one. It will tip over!

Filing down the angle stops is a good idea—have you tried this or know anyone who has? I’d have to use a hand file, that’s all I have….

—Darin
 
darinb said:
Hamiltionian said:
darinb said:
Maybe as I suspected then. Good to hear from a tripod expert.

My first thought, as you might have guessed, was to order an RRS and sell this Fiesol Tournament (which I saw didn’t do so well on your site). Except for that when you go to the RRS order page is says this at the top:
Click to expand...
The Feisol Tournament tripods have a notoriously narrow leg angle which really inhibits their performance. I have measured it at 19-20 degrees to the vertical whereas ideally tripods are more like 24-25 degrees. Measure this angle yourself (can use a phone app) to confirm. But one potential fix is to file down the leg angle stops to the desired value and that will greatly improve performance.
darinb said:
“Abandon hope all who enter here”

which I thought was odd until I saw that the tripod are sold out more or less forever—not even taking back orders anymore. They say they want to catch up first on the existing back orders, sigh.

So I did two things instead: I ordered the center pole for my tripod, which has the hook, and I dusted off my heavier Gitzo, which I used last night and I suspect you could hit with a truck without getting any blur. But it’s sort of heavy, alas.

—Darin
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Oh, you don’t need t measure the leg angle—it’s so narrow that just adding a lens shade threatens to overbalance it. :) You really have to make sure it si level when you use it—with other tripods if you are in a hurry and the thing is cockeyed no big deal, but not with this one. It will tip over!

Filing down the angle stops is a good idea—have you tried this or know anyone who has? I’d have to use a hand file, that’s all I have….

—Darin
Click to expand...
I've seen a couple other DPR uses do it, with success. Haven't done it myself though. If you do, just take it slow and be careful. Feisol is also really good about providing replacement parts, so you can potentially order a new apex/levers to experiment with and not worry about damaging it.
 
darinb said:
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the comments about adding weight etc.

I guess what I was really asking is a question for an engineer, something along the lines of "Can tightening the leg screws change the resonance of a tripod" if that is the correct way to phrase it.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
You would need to "over tighten" the thru-bolts to create this effect. The tripod would be designed for a specific tolerance based on the type of pivot point and materials used. It should have never been "loose".

You need to get back to the factory specs before you can compare anything. And, why were these bolts loose in the first place?
 
BBbuilder467 said:
darinb said:
darinb said:
Here's something interesting--and new to me. I've been shooting landscapes in the same basic area for the past few weeks with an approx 280mm lens. My tripod has been fine, even in fairly windy condition. My tripod, however, had loose legs. So today I got around to using a hex wrench to tighten them.

Immediately I ran into an issue, in a light wind, with the camera bouncing all over the place when on the tripod. Shooting at 1/20 was very difficult. I even found that turning IBIS on was a big improvement.

I suspect that my tighter tripod was more susceptible to wind vibration than when it was loose.

Anyone encounter such a thing?

(And while I'm thinking of it, wouldn't it be great if IBIS was tuned to zero out tripod vibrations?)
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the comments about adding weight etc.

I guess what I was really asking is a question for an engineer, something along the lines of "Can tightening the leg screws change the resonance of a tripod" if that is the correct way to phrase it.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
You would need to "over tighten" the thru-bolts to create this effect. The tripod would be designed for a specific tolerance based on the type of pivot point and materials used. It should have never been "loose".
Click to expand...
I don't have the impression that tripods are engineered to such a degree. In any event, the bolts come loose on their own, even after I retighten them--always have.
BBbuilder467 said:
You need to get back to the factory specs before you can compare anything. And, why were these bolts loose in the first place?
Click to expand...
If you can find such specs I'd love see them. I'm thinking they just tighten them in a general way, not to any specific tightness. Perhaps you give the manufacturers too much credit. :)

--Darin
 
Surely it's a matter of tight connections (including to the ground and to the camera) make rigid nodal points so that stationary waves resonate in the legs when the wind blows past the legs.

There is enough movement at the upper nodal point (attached to the camera) to vibrate the camera, especially if a longer shutter speed is used.
 
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