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A7IV Strange Noise Pattern in Lr

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toethumb

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Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000. It's clear as day when masking is shown.

But, if I turn off profile corrections in Lr, patterns are completely gone. Do not have this issue with my a7iii.

Profile corrections ON.
Profile corrections ON.



Profile corrections OFF.
Profile corrections OFF.
 
Don't have an answer for you. But it reminds me to a phenomenon under the name of "Color Polygons" (search the forum) on Sony a7x cameras. They concentric circles of color that shows in certain situations and when editing. At the time, I have spent a lot of time to find th reason. One thing I noticed was that the Colro Poylgons only apperaed if the camera "recognized" a lens. On adapted lenses like Canon EF, there were no Color Polygons. Could be related. However, switching "Lens Correction" of reduced, but didn't eliminate the Color Polygons.

It seems that if you can live without in-camera lens corection, you will be fine.
 
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000. It's clear as day when masking is shown.
Click to expand...
I noticed the same with very higj ISO A7rIII files, and made a post about it seven months ago, with no response:

Strange shadow pattern with ACR profile correction: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
toethumb said:
But, if I turn off profile corrections in Lr, patterns are completely gone. Do not have this issue with my a7iii.
Click to expand...
Seems like there is a repeated noise pattern that is stretched so that it becomes much more visible - and ugly. The workaround I could figure out is - like you have noticed - to turn lens correction off when the pattern visibly affects the final result.
 
Last edited:
Nielk Mike said:
Don't have an answer for you. But it reminds me to a phenomenon under the name of "Color Polygons" (search the forum) on Sony a7x cameras. They concentric circles of color that shows in certain situations and when editing. At the time, I have spent a lot of time to find th reason. One thing I noticed was that the Colro Poylgons only apperaed if the camera "recognized" a lens. On adapted lenses like Canon EF, there were no Color Polygons. Could be related. However, switching "Lens Correction" of reduced, but didn't eliminate the Color Polygons.
Click to expand...
No, this is not the color polygon issue.

Color polygons is caused by vignette correction. The weird noise pattern is caused by distortion correction.
 
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000.
Click to expand...
No further response? Think of all treads with issues less visible than this one, but are seen as coud not be tolerated and generate thousands of responses. ;-)
 
Last edited:
Magnar W said:
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000.
Click to expand...
No further response? Think of all treads with issues less visible than this one, but are seen as coud not be tolerated and generate thousands of responses. ;-)
Click to expand...
We can go back to discussing the "Color Polygons" anytime if you like :-)

I think OP's sample images are to abstract to convey the issue. How does it affect real images at night or in low light. Mostly B&W or also color images. The Color Polygons sometimes showed in low key images w/o any editing and couldn't be removed in post. It basically ruined the image.

May be OP can post other sample images to underline the issue.
 
This happens in Lightroom with any camera when lens profile corrections are enabled on noisy images. It’s a Lightroom thing, but generally speaking, the more geometric correction, the more apparent the effect
 
Last edited:
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000. It's clear as day when masking is shown.

But, if I turn off profile corrections in Lr, patterns are completely gone. Do not have this issue with my a7iii.
Click to expand...
Why not download a free trial copy of Capture 1 and see if the same thing occurs? Capture 1 also has profile corrections so if the same thing does not happen with Capture 1, it will show LR is the issue. If not Capture 1, Sony's own imaging software.

Unfortunately if Capture 1 or Sony software does show the same issue that would be inconclusive as both programs could also be at fault as to how they handle profile corrections.
 
Magnar W said:
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000. It's clear as day when masking is shown.
Click to expand...
I noticed the same with very higj ISO A7rIII files, and made a post about it seven months ago, with no response:

Strange shadow pattern with ACR profile correction: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
Member said:
But, if I turn off profile corrections in Lr, patterns are completely gone. Do not have this issue with my a7iii.
Click to expand...
Seems like there is a repeated noise pattern that is stretched so that it becomes much more visible - and ugly. The workaround I could figure out is - like you have noticed - to turn lens correction off when the pattern visibly affects the final result.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your input!! Apologize for the late reply. Didn't get any email notification, so I forgot about the whole post.

I ended up reducing masking and increased noise reduction, which somehow mitigated the effect.

Someone told me it's an unknown issue for astrophotography. Weirdly, I never saw this on my a7iii.
 
Dave Oddie said:
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000. It's clear as day when masking is shown.

But, if I turn off profile corrections in Lr, patterns are completely gone. Do not have this issue with my a7iii.
Click to expand...
Why not download a free trial copy of Capture 1 and see if the same thing occurs? Capture 1 also has profile corrections so if the same thing does not happen with Capture 1, it will show LR is the issue. If not Capture 1, Sony's own imaging software.

Unfortunately if Capture 1 or Sony software does show the same issue that would be inconclusive as both programs could also be at fault as to how they handle profile corrections.
Click to expand...
Good idea!

I thought the profile correction was handled in-body by Sony, not Lr, since I turned in-body lens corrections on, but it's worth a try.
 
Nielk Mike said:
Don't have an answer for you. But it reminds me to a phenomenon under the name of "Color Polygons" (search the forum) on Sony a7x cameras. They concentric circles of color that shows in certain situations and when editing. At the time, I have spent a lot of time to find th reason. One thing I noticed was that the Colro Poylgons only apperaed if the camera "recognized" a lens. On adapted lenses like Canon EF, there were no Color Polygons. Could be related. However, switching "Lens Correction" of reduced, but didn't eliminate the Color Polygons.

It seems that if you can live without in-camera lens corection, you will be fine.
Click to expand...
Interesting! I'm not too bothered by the pattern since it's mostly gone after noise reduction, and doesn't show at low ISO.

I was just a bit shocked to see this at first.
 
f1point4andbethere said:
This happens in Lightroom with any camera when lens profile corrections are enabled on noisy images. It’s a Lightroom thing, but generally speaking, the more geometric correction, the more apparent the effect
Click to expand...
I see! Good to know! I wish Adobe could fix this in the future. Kinda annoying when you star at the edited raw file and see fishnet noise pattern.

Thank you!
 
Nielk Mike said:
Magnar W said:
toethumb said:
Got this camera recently and just noticed this now. When in-camera profile corrections are turned on, I can see grid or net-like noise patterns in the images. More noticeable at higher ISO, i.e. 8000 or 10000.
Click to expand...
No further response? Think of all treads with issues less visible than this one, but are seen as coud not be tolerated and generate thousands of responses. ;-)
Click to expand...
We can go back to discussing the "Color Polygons" anytime if you like :-)

I think OP's sample images are to abstract to convey the issue. How does it affect real images at night or in low light. Mostly B&W or also color images. The Color Polygons sometimes showed in low key images w/o any editing and couldn't be removed in post. It basically ruined the image.

May be OP can post other sample images to underline the issue.
Click to expand...
I will try to get some sample photos next week if I can find time. My day job is killing me in the past week or so.

Thinking same lens on a7iv and a7iii for comparison.
 
toethumb said:
I ended up reducing masking and increased noise reduction, which somehow mitigated the effect.
Click to expand...
This works to smooth out the effect/defect.
toethumb said:
Someone told me it's an unknown issue for astrophotography. Weirdly, I never saw this on my a7iii.
Click to expand...
First time I noticed this was after a Lightroom update earlier this spring. This also affects astrophoto where the sky background is pushed hard.

For stacked astrophotography you will have enough data to avoid this ugly look.
 
Here's an example of the grid I experienced in a recent astrophoto tonight.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com www.dropbox.com

Deselecting 'Enable Profile Corrections' helps, but this feels uniquely a Sony A7iv issue as I've never seen anything like this with other Sony or Nikon cameras that I have / currently own.

Anyone had an experience reaching out to Sony to confirm if this is a manufacturing defect?
 
woods513 said:
Here's an example of the grid I experienced in a recent astrophoto tonight.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eezap82ol57oyj0/Sony A7iv Noise Grid.jpg?dl=0'

Deselecting 'Enable Profile Corrections' helps, but this feels uniquely a Sony A7iv issue as I've never seen anything like this with other Sony or Nikon cameras that I have / currently own.

Anyone had an experience reaching out to Sony to confirm if this is a manufacturing defect?
Click to expand...
It’s not a manufacturing defect or a Sony exclusive issue. It’s basic imaging science; a noisy image is being mesh-warp corrected, you’re going to get some visible grid pattern.

Use DxO PureRAW and get rid of the noise with the corrections and you should be in better shape.
 
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