R7=7Dii or 90D?

Where should the new R7 be positioned in the Canon line?
From what I can tell, it’s the mirrorless follow-on to the 90d which, based on what Canon has said, is the follow-up from both the 80d and 7d mk2. For whatever reason, Canon had already decided that they no longer are going to produce the 7d line, which, looking back, probably wasn’t a great seller. The reason I think that is that the introductory price of the 7d mk2 dropped relatively quickly after launch.



As much as I would have appreciated the better ergo/controls, more robust build and other little touches that Canon reserves for only pro bodies, I seem to be in the minority. I’m ok with paying more for those things but again, it seems that there aren’t so many who are willing to pay more than $1500 for an APS-c camera.

Unfortunately, for now I can’t get the camera I really want from Canon at any price. Eventually, maybe the R1 will be it.



Until then I’ll use my R6 and R7 and not worry too much about what the R7 could have been. Instead, I plan to focus on getting the most I can from the R7. At least the price is very reasonable and the specs generally look great.
 
Where should the new R7 be positioned in the Canon line?
From what I can tell, it’s the mirrorless follow-on to the 90d which, based on what Canon has said, is the follow-up from both the 80d and 7d mk2. For whatever reason, Canon had already decided that they no longer are going to produce the 7d line, which, looking back, probably wasn’t a great seller. The reason I think that is that the introductory price of the 7d mk2 dropped relatively quickly after launch.

As much as I would have appreciated the better ergo/controls, more robust build and other little touches that Canon reserves for only pro bodies, I seem to be in the minority. I’m ok with paying more for those things but again, it seems that there aren’t so many who are willing to pay more than $1500 for an APS-c camera.

Unfortunately, for now I can’t get the camera I really want from Canon at any price. Eventually, maybe the R1 will be it.

Until then I’ll use my R6 and R7 and not worry too much about what the R7 could have been. Instead, I plan to focus on getting the most I can from the R7. At least the price is very reasonable and the specs generally look great.
I think your analysis is spot on especially considering both Canon's and Nikon's approaches to high-end or sports APS-C bodies.

Both the 7D and D500 were widely loved and cherished by extremely vocal minorities. Yet, what I've read is that neither camera sold particularly well. Now, with the ever decreasing dedicated-camera market, does it make sense to produce such niche cameras?

Apparently--and definitely so far--the answer is no. Nikon appears to have little interest in producing a D500 successor (and it took many, many years for Nikon to release the D500 after the highly cherished D300). Part of Nikon's problem is that it doesn't have a strong mirrorless AF sensor-system that doesn't rely on stacked-sensor technology. Excluding the Z9, all of Nikon's mirrorless offerings have AF-trailing AF performance. Canon, by contrast, has the marvelous R6/R5 tech that may be the best AF tech available that doesn't rely on the extremely fast read-out speeds of stacked sensors. Start with R5 tech, add a little spice from the R3 including the processing engine, and Canon can produce an APS-C that can be a successor to the enthusiast-level 90D while providing improved AF performance over the 7D II.

Thus, those who are saying that the R7 is in-between the XXD and 7D series are correct. There probably isn't enough demand to produce a 7D successor that ticks all the boxes of that line--or of the Nikon D500--at the price level required to sell such beastly cameras. However, Canon is in a better position because they already have a highly competent "affordable" AF system that provides enough performance to make the 7D attractive to both XXD buyers and 7D--albeit, grudgingly--buyers.

Now, Nikon is having a wonderful time selling more Z9 cameras than it can produce. Once that demand is sated whether the eventual "junior (grip-less) Z9" will be APS-C or full frame remains a question. I'd put my money on full frame, which is where the market is currently.
 
I'll try to answer your question in the sense that you asked it - not like some others on here. Unfortunately its more of a 90D replacement. 7D2 had pro build quality (weather sealing, internal frame materials, etc), pro body ergonomics, and a battery grip (maybe one will be released for the R7?). Canon didn't get it totally wrong with the R7 - the AF looks fantastic and it has high frame rates. But a lot of us were hoping for a straight up 7D2 mirrorless successor and the R7 falls short.
 
It strikes me as being right about smack dab in the middle. Build quality isn't quite as good as the 7D Mark II, but it's got a lot of great technology, has IBIS, and has a reasonable amount of weather sealing. The jury's still out on whether I'll buy one, since I have an R5, but if I only had a 7D Mark II, and wanted to upgrade, it'd be a very easy decision for me.
 
Where should the new R7 be positioned in the Canon line?
From what I can tell, it’s the mirrorless follow-on to the 90d which, based on what Canon has said, is the follow-up from both the 80d and 7d mk2. For whatever reason, Canon had already decided that they no longer are going to produce the 7d line, which, looking back, probably wasn’t a great seller. The reason I think that is that the introductory price of the 7d mk2 dropped relatively quickly after launch.

As much as I would have appreciated the better ergo/controls, more robust build and other little touches that Canon reserves for only pro bodies, I seem to be in the minority. I’m ok with paying more for those things but again, it seems that there aren’t so many who are willing to pay more than $1500 for an APS-c camera.

Unfortunately, for now I can’t get the camera I really want from Canon at any price. Eventually, maybe the R1 will be it.

Until then I’ll use my R6 and R7 and not worry too much about what the R7 could have been. Instead, I plan to focus on getting the most I can from the R7. At least the price is very reasonable and the specs generally look great.
I think your analysis is spot on especially considering both Canon's and Nikon's approaches to high-end or sports APS-C bodies.

Both the 7D and D500 were widely loved and cherished by extremely vocal minorities. Yet, what I've read is that neither camera sold particularly well. Now, with the ever decreasing dedicated-camera market, does it make sense to produce such niche cameras?

Apparently--and definitely so far--the answer is no. Nikon appears to have little interest in producing a D500 successor (and it took many, many years for Nikon to release the D500 after the highly cherished D300). Part of Nikon's problem is that it doesn't have a strong mirrorless AF sensor-system that doesn't rely on stacked-sensor technology. Excluding the Z9, all of Nikon's mirrorless offerings have AF-trailing AF performance. Canon, by contrast, has the marvelous R6/R5 tech that may be the best AF tech available that doesn't rely on the extremely fast read-out speeds of stacked sensors. Start with R5 tech, add a little spice from the R3 including the processing engine, and Canon can produce an APS-C that can be a successor to the enthusiast-level 90D while providing improved AF performance over the 7D II.

Thus, those who are saying that the R7 is in-between the XXD and 7D series are correct. There probably isn't enough demand to produce a 7D successor that ticks all the boxes of that line--or of the Nikon D500--at the price level required to sell such beastly cameras. However, Canon is in a better position because they already have a highly competent "affordable" AF system that provides enough performance to make the 7D attractive to both XXD buyers and 7D--albeit, grudgingly--buyers.

Now, Nikon is having a wonderful time selling more Z9 cameras than it can produce. Once that demand is sated whether the eventual "junior (grip-less) Z9" will be APS-C or full frame remains a question. I'd put my money on full frame, which is where the market is currently.
+1

i agree with your point but i think we'll see the R5 orgy repeated again when R7 shows up. seems like a lot of people are waiting for this camera, especially users that already have FF cameras and are tired of 7Dmk2 and 90D aps-c cameras. as you suggested, R7 ticks all of the boxes for aps-c camera owners and i am one of them. R7 is the one i was waiting for.
 
+1

i agree with your point but i think we'll see the R5 orgy repeated again when R7 shows up. seems like a lot of people are waiting for this camera, especially users that already have FF cameras and are tired of 7Dmk2 and 90D aps-c cameras. as you suggested, R7 ticks all of the boxes for aps-c camera owners and i am one of them. R7 is the one i was waiting for.
Hehe, same here. Just, that the R7 is the one I should have been waiting for. I got impatient and went R6 and now I can only shoot things that are 1.6x closer to me. At least I finally have a weather-sealed native kit lens, hehe.

Have fun with your new R7!
 
Both the 7D and D500 were widely loved and cherished by extremely vocal minorities. Yet, what I've read is that neither camera sold particularly well. Now, with the ever decreasing dedicated-camera market, does it make sense to produce such niche cameras?

Apparently--and definitely so far--the answer is no.
With one exception! Fuji just released a high end APSC camera with the X-H2(S).
 
Both the 7D and D500 were widely loved and cherished by extremely vocal minorities. Yet, what I've read is that neither camera sold particularly well. Now, with the ever decreasing dedicated-camera market, does it make sense to produce such niche cameras?

Apparently--and definitely so far--the answer is no.
With one exception! Fuji just released a high end APSC camera with the X-H2(S).
and a new gorgeous monster zoom "120-600mm F5.6-8 R LM OIS WR."

--
Unexamined world isn't worth living in. "Socrates"
 
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Both the 7D and D500 were widely loved and cherished by extremely vocal minorities. Yet, what I've read is that neither camera sold particularly well. Now, with the ever decreasing dedicated-camera market, does it make sense to produce such niche cameras?

Apparently--and definitely so far--the answer is no.
With one exception! Fuji just released a high end APSC camera with the X-H2(S).
and a new gorgeous monster zoom "120-600mm F5.6-8 R LM OIS WR."
 
It's technically a 150-600. It is kinda interesting, though. It weighs less than the EF 100-400 II, it's got an 82mm filter thread, and it doesn't extend when zooming.
 
Well, we didn't guestimate the price of the R7 correctly.

But we sure did come close tu Fuji's new APS-C beast (US$2,500). A lot of us said the R7 would be sold for about $2,400 considering all the bleeding-edge tech it would need to have to compete in a saturated camera market.

Guess Fuji beat Canon to the punch on this one.

It's basically what we all wanted as a succesor to the 7D line in mirrorless form and shows there's a niche for this kind of camera.
 
It's technically a 150-600. It is kinda interesting, though. It weighs less than the EF 100-400 II, it's got an 82mm filter thread, and it doesn't extend when zooming.
Yes, definitely a strange beast, I wonder if it is a Tamron lens.
 
Well, we didn't guestimate the price of the R7 correctly.

But we sure did come close tu Fuji's new APS-C beast (US$2,500). A lot of us said the R7 would be sold for about $2,400 considering all the bleeding-edge tech it would need to have to compete in a saturated camera market.

Guess Fuji beat Canon to the punch on this one.

It's basically what we all wanted as a succesor to the 7D line in mirrorless form and shows there's a niche for this kind of camera.
Yea, if only it had a Canon mount. It is encouraging that a stacked APS-c sensor camera can be sold for $2500. People here seemed to think it would cost a lot more.
 

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