Printing Newbie - Getting Started - Blue Cast on Photos?

Hello Friends!

Total printing newbie here.

Just to preface this post by saying that I have close to 0 experience tweaking things for print. I am usually just a load-paper-and-print guy, text based printing only as well!

However, for the fun of it, I've recently tried to print one of my photos on photo paper.

Noticed immediately that the colors are not very accurate. The colors are a washed out, brown tones come out with too much magenta, but the worst is that beige/whitish tones come out with a bluish overcast. I'd like to see what I can tweak to help. My printer is an Epson L6170 , which is admittedly not really a printer geared towards color accuracy. My monitor is not calibrated as well, but the photo on my monitor and what appears on the camera's LCD look way closer than what I get with the printing.

Tried using some off the shelf glossy photo paper. Software used was Canon's Digital Photo Professional. I printed using the default options and used "High Quality" for the printer, but that's about it.

I do understand that the photo is probably in RGB and my printer's ink is in CMYK, but not sure what else I can do. Any leads where I can start reading and tweaking? As of right now, buying a new printer is out of the question... I'll post my JPG and a photo of the printout below:

Actual JPG


Picture of the Photo


Many thanks and happy shooting / printing!

Basically you need to use an ICC profile, but there are likely none available for your specific printer/paper combo. Also, to create your own requires additional hardware.

I think your printer that uses 001 inks is same as Epson EcoTank printers in the US that use 502 inks.

Try downloading these profiles from red river and use one for a similar paper type. It might get you much closer, but not perfect. I did this for my EcoTank printer.

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/pro...750-3750-4750-color-printer-icc-profiles.html

The exact details of how to install and use an ICC profile depends on your driver and operating system, but maybe you can figure it out.

Trying to instead tweak the CMY values in the driver is very difficult and frustrating, and will not give good results.

sushipep said:

Hello Friends!

Total printing newbie here.

Just to preface this post by saying that I have close to 0 experience tweaking things for print. I am usually just a load-paper-and-print guy, text based printing only as well!

However, for the fun of it, I've recently tried to print one of my photos on photo paper.

Noticed immediately that the colors are not very accurate. The colors are a washed out, brown tones come out with too much magenta, but the worst is that beige/whitish tones come out with a bluish overcast. I'd like to see what I can tweak to help. My printer is an Epson L6170 , which is admittedly not really a printer geared towards color accuracy. My monitor is not calibrated as well, but the photo on my monitor and what appears on the camera's LCD look way closer than what I get with the printing.

Tried using some off the shelf glossy photo paper. Software used was Canon's Digital Photo Professional. I printed using the default options and used "High Quality" for the printer, but that's about it.

I do understand that the photo is probably in RGB and my printer's ink is in CMYK, but not sure what else I can do. Any leads where I can start reading and tweaking? As of right now, buying a new printer is out of the question... I'll post my JPG and a photo of the printout below:

Actual JPG

https://imgur.com/4F8RGD3

Picture of the Photo

https://imgur.com/3EtS2Fz

Many thanks and happy shooting / printing!

Click to expand...

CMYK us a color model that is not used by inkjet printers, which instead use the RGB color model. There could be several reasons for the color cast. But, as pointed out elsewhere, you would be best served by loading an ICC profile for the printer and paper you are using if available.

sushipep said:

I have close to 0 experience tweaking things for print....

However, for the fun of it, I've recently tried to print one of my photos on photo paper.

Noticed immediately that the colors are not very accurate. The colors are a washed out, brown tones come out with too much magenta, but the worst is that beige/whitish tones come out with a bluish overcast. I'd like to see what I can tweak to help. My printer is an Epson L6170 .... My monitor is not calibrated as well ....

Tried using some off the shelf glossy photo paper. Software used was Canon's Digital Photo Professional. I printed using the default options and used "High Quality" for the printer, but that's about it.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of potential issues here, so I'll try to address some that seem to me more likely to me to be the cause, and/or easier for you to fix.

(1) From the print dialog box in Digital Photo Professional, did you open the 'printer settings' box and set the media type to glossy photo paper? If it was set to plain paper or something else, that could easily cause major errors.

(2) Have you tried looking at the prints under a variety of lighting, including sunny daylight? The light used to view the print can have a major effect.

(3) Have you tried printing a professionally-created test image, to remove the possibility (maybe probability) that your uncalibrated and unprofiled monitor is causing you to edit the images to create the problem? My favorite it probably Bill Atrkinson's. I made a version of it as a moderate-size JPEG in sRGB color space and posted it at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61518002; right-click on "original size" under the image and choose from the popup menu "Save Link As..." or similar to download it.

(4) Are you using genuine Epson inks?

(5) Have you tried Epson glossy photo paper, instead of some other brand?

Unfortunately these low-end Epson tank printers only have a single profile for all paper, "Epson IJ Printer 07.icc" and thus get poor color accuracy even on Epson papers.

I get much better results for my Epson ET-3830 (which uses Epson 502 inks) by using the ICC profile for Red River UltraPro Gloss when printing on Epson glossy paper, and by using the ICC profile for Red River Premium Matte when printing on Epson Premium Presentation Paper Matte, than by using the built-in Epson Color Controls for these papers as managed by the printer.

Hard to believe that Epson provides such poor color matching even for their own papers on these printers, but true. I almost suspect they do so deliberately, to upsell people to one of their "photo" printers like the ET-8500.

(In case someone wonders: I am pretty sure I know what I am doing with correctly using the driver and software and color profiles. Have had various Epson printers for over 10 years. No such problems on other Epson printers such as P900 and 3880.)

Of course, it would be best to create (or buy) my own custom profiles, but I do not have the hardware to do so, and in any case I do not use this printer for photos. I only use it for printing miscellaneous color documents.

I agree with NA - these inks exhibit strong metamerism - i.e., their apparent colors change significantly depending on the lighting, much more so than for Epson pigment inks (and much more so than can be attributed to color temperature of the lighting). Particularly noticeable for grays, which can appear with a cyan or green or magenta color cast depending on the lighting.

Out of curiosity, i printed your photo three ways, all on Epson Glossy paper:

1. on an Epson P900, color managed by printer, for Epson glossy paper (this should be the most color-accurate)

2. On an Epson ET-3830 (similar to your printer), color managed by printer, for Epson glossy paper

3. On the Epson ET-3830, using the Red River ICC profile for UltraPro Gloss.

Results are below.

Like you got, #2 is too cyan. #3 is closer to number #1, but more yellow/green.

This photo is taken with an iPhone 11 Pro, in a mix of indirect window light and indoor 5000K LED light, but I have not attempted to correct the white balance (the background is plain white, but shows a bit yellow in this photo). But it might help compare.

NAwlins Contrarian said:

There are a lot of potential issues here, so I'll try to address some that seem to me more likely to me to be the cause, and/or easier for you to fix.

(1) From the print dialog box in Digital Photo Professional, did you open the 'printer settings' box and set the media type to glossy photo paper? If it was set to plain paper or something else, that could easily cause major errors.

(2) Have you tried looking at the prints under a variety of lighting, including sunny daylight? The light used to view the print can have a major effect.

(3) Have you tried printing a professionally-created test image, to remove the possibility (maybe probability) that your uncalibrated and unprofiled monitor is causing you to edit the images to create the problem? My favorite it probably Bill Atrkinson's. I made a version of it as a moderate-size JPEG in sRGB color space and posted it at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61518002; right-click on "original size" under the image and choose from the popup menu "Save Link As..." or similar to download it.

(4) Are you using genuine Epson inks?

(5) Have you tried Epson glossy photo paper, instead of some other brand?

Click to expand...

Thanks for this.

1. Tried two pictures, one with "Photo Paper Glossy" and "Epson Premium Glossy". Didn't really see much difference between the two.

2. I actually have. In yellowish lighting, the picture actually looks decent. Under white lighting such as what I have shown above, there is a big blue cast. You are absolutely correct re viewing under different colored lighting.

3. Not yet, sorry. Will give this a look.

4. Yes, using original Epson inks

5. Not yet, didn't realize there would be a difference but I'll try to see.

wilberforce_1 said:

Out of curiosity, i printed your photo three ways, all on Epson Glossy paper:

1. on an Epson P900, color managed by printer, for Epson glossy paper (this should be the most color-accurate)

2. On an Epson ET-3830 (similar to your printer), color managed by printer, for Epson glossy paper

3. On the Epson ET-3830, using the Red River ICC profile for UltraPro Gloss.

Results are below.

Like you got, #2 is too cyan. #3 is closer to number #1, but more yellow/green.

This photo is taken with an iPhone 11 Pro, in a mix of indirect window light and indoor 5000K LED light, but I have not attempted to correct the white balance (the background is plain white, but shows a bit yellow in this photo). But it might help compare.

Click to expand...

Super above and beyond. Thanks so much for the effort! I'll actually be quite happy with the third picture considering you mentioned that the ET3830 should be very similar, and picture 2 looks very similar to what I got.

Yes, I can confirm that the printer does install the Epson IJ Printer 07 profile. I'll have to experiment with the RedRiver profiles. On the flip side, ink for these printers are crazy cheap. I've only used one bottle each so far (the US equivalent of about $5-7 and I've already printed about 10k Pages).

Re: the 001s and 005s - yes these do seem to be the same. Not sure why Epson has to make these similar inks different. I am seeing knockoff inks being sold with one SKU marketed as being compatible for both 001s and 005s at the same time.

I do work for an outfit that may see some benefit in color calibrating our monitors, so when we get around to buying a calibrator, I may try to borrow it :]

Printers also seem like another rabbit hole. I thought photography alone was enough! :] I do suppose it is asking quite a bit for printers having cheap ink to also do well in terms of color reproduction and accuracy...

Thanks everyone for the replies!

The best "cheap ink" printers for photos are the Epson ET-8500 and the larger ET-8550, which use 6 inks, in bottles. These are designed as true photo printers and have got good reviews.

The catch is that they are in very high demand compared to supply, and thus are very hard to find at a reasonable price, especially the larger one (scalpers have doubled the price). They are also very popular for converting to dye sublimation.

It can be very frustrating to get color-accurate prints from the cheaper tank printers. I don't know if Canon are perhaps better in this regard. Basically, you need to not have very high expectations, or I suggest just get a photo printer.

wilberforce_1 said:

The best "cheap ink" printers for photos are the Epson ET-8500 and the larger ET-8550, which use 6 inks, in bottles. These are designed as true photo printers and have got good reviews.

The catch is that they are in very high demand compared to supply, and thus are very hard to find at a reasonable price, especially the larger one (scalpers have doubled the price). They are also very popular for converting to dye sublimation.

It can be very frustrating to get color-accurate prints from the cheaper tank printers. I don't know if Canon are perhaps better in this regard. Basically, you need to not have very high expectations, or I suggest just get a photo printer.

Click to expand...

Looking into those 6 ink bottle printers as we speak! Haha, I'll try to see what I can do with my existing one first, though! At least at first glance, these are much cheaper than something like a new lens

Even the Epson printers that have a photo dye black plus the pigment black do a good job printing four dye colors on glossy paper.

As an experiment, get some Epson or similar premium presentation matte and try printing on that.

Good luck.

sushipep said:

wilberforce_1 said:

The best "cheap ink" printers for photos are the Epson ET-8500 and the larger ET-8550, which use 6 inks, in bottles. These are designed as true photo printers and have got good reviews.

The catch is that they are in very high demand compared to supply, and thus are very hard to find at a reasonable price, especially the larger one (scalpers have doubled the price). They are also very popular for converting to dye sublimation.

It can be very frustrating to get color-accurate prints from the cheaper tank printers. I don't know if Canon are perhaps better in this regard. Basically, you need to not have very high expectations, or I suggest just get a photo printer.

Click to expand...

Looking into those 6 ink bottle printers as we speak! Haha, I'll try to see what I can do with my existing one first, though! At least at first glance, these are much cheaper than something like a new lens

Click to expand...

If you are fussy about your color, yes, you will need a better printer, but you will also need a decent IPS monitor with good color accuracy and calibration tools for the monitor. Also, you will need good editing software, paper and ICC profiles.

Good notes. Wilberforce_1.

Thanks for the Red River profile tips. Makes sense since these glossy papers are pretty much alike. I can print a standard test image on my Canon MG 6220 with Canon Photo Glossy II, Epson Ultra Premium Glossy and HP Premium Plus Glossy and they are all excellent and neutral.

Even adding Photo Black to C M and Y would help quite a bit. But asking the 3 dye inks on a low end Epson to produce a neutral print is asking for too much. In contrast, my Epsons with 4 dye inks plus pigment black do a nice job with a test image on glossy RC paper. Add just gray to an ink set, even better.

Epson also cheapens the functionality of the scanner through Epson Scan 2 on the cheaper models.

Gesture said:

Epson also cheapens the functionality of the scanner through Epson Scan 2 on the cheaper models.

Click to expand...

What in Epson Scan 2 do you find lacking? (I have not used it much, just curious.)

On a higher end consumer printer like the XP-7100, when you go into the Advanced Side, there is an extra click to Fine Adjustments and you have most (but not all) of the adjustments that Epson Scan has in Professional Mode including curves.

With the ET-2760, that capability for Fine Adjustments is missing. Of course, so are some of the adjustments that would apply mostly to transmission scanning.

One of the reasons I've keep older 5 ink printers like the XP-830 going is the ability to use Epson Scan, which I use a lot. I've worked with Epson Scan, Canon Navigator, VueScan, Silverfast (limited) and Linocolor Elite. Epson Scan in Professional mode is a valuable piece of software.

However, Epson Scan 2 does provide for searchable OCR PDFs. And that XP-7100 can do duplex OCR scans in the ADF. Back in the day, about $64 on Epson Clearance Center. Probably the last of that XP line. I expect most everything to go EcoTank.

I have forgone Canon on the consumer side because no Mac drivers or Mac scanning software any more. In that respect, Epson has remained more professional, even still including LCD screens, even if 1.44 inches on the entry level printers. A printer like the XP-830 or WF-3640 would have a larger, full color, touch LCD. The one on the XP-7100 isn't quite as good, but decent! On some printers, I think HP MAKES the user work through their smart phone app.

As I've said before, I think the engineers sneaked the ET-8550 and ET-8550 past the bean counters with that larger LCD, a straight through path and Advanced Black & White in the driver; and it even keeps a scanner. It remains to be seen how well these EcoTank printers hold up. Epson is betting a bundle on them, as they want large companies to choose the enterprise versions over laser printers.

Appreciate your contributions. They have been excellent.

OK thanks for the explanation. I do see this curves adjustment under "Detailed Adjustments" - I assume you mean something more than this?





Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Got it. Epson Scan has a bit more, but Epson Scan 2 with the right printer is fine. Just no need to cripple features because one bought a less expensive printer. Your ET-3830 has more scan capabilities than the ET-2670.

Have yet to test RR profiles on the ET-2760. In my testing, it will produce a good neutral print on plain paper and matte paper, but on Glossy RC paper you get the blue tonality the OP noted with Epson ink and Printer Manages Color. But I've also gotten that on Epson 6 dye ink printers back in the day!

OK, looks like Epson provides different levels of functionality in Scan 2 depending on the specific model of printer/scanner. Now I understand. I agree, why dumb down capabilities that are solely software dependent, not hardware dependent.

Took me a while to find it. Not pleased about it. But someone also pointed out that with some newer Mac OS X builds, the product only comes with/woks with Epson Scan 2 now, even if it originally worked with Epson Scan.

Here's Epson Scan.


Epson Scan PROFESSIONAL MODE

I see what you mean, that is a lot more comprehensive!