SD9 Question on batteries, flash & a possible fault

Simon_S · Nov 9, 2003

Firstly, thanks to all for the useful information posted here – it helped me make a decision about buying an SD9 by providing an insight into the camera’s limitations/faults and how people are working with it. Since most reviews adequately highlight what is good and bad with a particular model, I find it great to know what people love/hate about the unit on a personal, working-with-it level.

Unfortunately no-one mentioned (or seemed to know) that the SD10 would be released three days after I handed over my cash! If I didn’t like the SD9 so much and have a relaxed attitude to the “it’s out of date two months before you buy it” issue I may have been quite annoyed!

Anyway, on to a few questions about the SD9…

Batteries:

When doing my pre-purchase reading I noted a few comments passing back and forwards about batteries and the use of rechargeables. As I would prefer to use some type of rechargeable can people who are using them give me an idea how much “worse” they are compared to normal batteries and the brands that are good/bad. Obviously the AA’s are easier to find but can you get CD123A variants in rechargeable too? Also, are there any good web sites for buying batteries (especially the CR123A’s) in the UK?

Fault:

I had an interesting “fault” on Saturday. Having travelled to a friend’s place in the countryside on Friday night, taken a couple of photos (and shown off the fantastic new camera!) I put the camera back in its case (one of those padded Lowepack ones) and put it back in the boot of the car (as it was in a secured area in the middle of nowhere I thought it would be safe enough).

In the evening the battery meter on the top of the camera had shown both sets of batteries as full. However, in the morning the camera started but immediately showed both sets of batteries as low and would not take a picture. As this was my first set of batteries (only about 250 photos but lots of playing) I thought they may require a change so I left the camera until the afternoon, when I got back to where I had more batteries. The temperature overnight had been around 5 degrees Centigrade and was back up to about 8 in the morning – so well within the normal operating range of the camera.

In the afternoon, as I went to replace all of the batteries I noticed the camera showed them all as ok again. A single photo later it showed the batteries as still ok but had CF showing in the (top) display and wouldn’t do a thing. The CF card is a new Lexar 1GB high speed model that has shown no other problems so far. I popped the batteries out and back in again and the display showed them as flat but the CF as fine. So I then swapped the batteries for the new set and all has been fine since.

Does anyone have any ideas whether this was battery, temperature, CF, firmware (1.4.0.1302) or silly-user related? I bought the camera with the idea of taking it to the snow over Christmas for ski/landscape photos but if it is affected by 5 degrees I hate to think how badly it might take 0.

Flash:

The final question (and thank you to all those who have managed to read this far!) is to ask about a good flash to use with the SD9. My main use for a flash will be people shots indoors / night as the rest of my shots tend to be outdoor and landscape photos. So a small travel-friendly unit would be good – any ideas / comments / etc?

Thanks to any and all who respond.
Simon

tammons · Nov 9, 2003

Simon_S said:
Firstly, thanks to all for the useful information posted here – it
helped me make a decision about buying an SD9 by providing an
insight into the camera’s limitations/faults and how people are
working with it. Since most reviews adequately highlight what is
good and bad with a particular model, I find it great to know what
people love/hate about the unit on a personal, working-with-it
level.

Unfortunately no-one mentioned (or seemed to know) that the SD10
would be released three days after I handed over my cash! If I
didn’t like the SD9 so much and have a relaxed attitude to the
“it’s out of date two months before you buy it” issue I may have
been quite annoyed!

Simon_S said:
Anyway, on to a few questions about the SD9…

Batteries:
When doing my pre-purchase reading I noted a few comments passing
back and forwards about batteries and the use of rechargeables. As
I would prefer to use some type of rechargeable can people who are
using them give me an idea how much “worse” they are compared to
normal batteries and the brands that are good/bad. Obviously the
AA’s are easier to find but can you get CD123A variants in
rechargeable too? Also, are there any good web sites for buying
batteries (especially the CR123A’s) in the UK?

I get 240 photos out of 2200 nimh batteries.

Simon_S said:
Fault:
I had an interesting “fault” on Saturday. Having travelled to a
friend’s place in the countryside on Friday night, taken a couple
of photos (and shown off the fantastic new camera!) I put the
camera back in its case (one of those padded Lowepack ones) and put
it back in the boot of the car (as it was in a secured area in the
middle of nowhere I thought it would be safe enough).
In the evening the battery meter on the top of the camera had shown
both sets of batteries as full. However, in the morning the camera
started but immediately showed both sets of batteries as low and
would not take a picture. As this was my first set of batteries
(only about 250 photos but lots of playing) I thought they may
require a change so I left the camera until the afternoon, when I
got back to where I had more batteries. The temperature overnight
had been around 5 degrees Centigrade and was back up to about 8 in
the morning – so well within the normal operating range of the
camera.
In the afternoon, as I went to replace all of the batteries I
noticed the camera showed them all as ok again. A single photo
later it showed the batteries as still ok but had CF showing in the
(top) display and wouldn’t do a thing. The CF card is a new Lexar
1GB high speed model that has shown no other problems so far. I
popped the batteries out and back in again and the display showed
them as flat but the CF as fine. So I then swapped the batteries
for the new set and all has been fine since.
Does anyone have any ideas whether this was battery, temperature,
CF, firmware (1.4.0.1302) or silly-user related? I bought the
camera with the idea of taking it to the snow over Christmas for
ski/landscape photos but if it is affected by 5 degrees I hate to
think how badly it might take 0.

Flash:
The final question (and thank you to all those who have managed to
read this far!) is to ask about a good flash to use with the SD9.
My main use for a flash will be people shots indoors / night as the
rest of my shots tend to be outdoor and landscape photos. So a
small travel-friendly unit would be good – any ideas / comments /
etc?

Thanks to any and all who respond.
Simon

--
http://www.troyammons.com
http://www.pbase.com/tammons
http://www.troyammons.deviantart.com

Dominic Groß · Nov 9, 2003

Simon_S said:
Batteries:
When doing my pre-purchase reading I noted a few comments passing
back and forwards about batteries and the use of rechargeables. As
I would prefer to use some type of rechargeable can people who are
using them give me an idea how much “worse” they are compared to
normal batteries and the brands that are good/bad. Obviously the
AA’s are easier to find but can you get CD123A variants in
rechargeable too? Also, are there any good web sites for buying
batteries (especially the CR123A’s) in the UK?

You can get rechargable CR123a BUT testing in the Fuji S2pro (and big discussion about it in the Fuji Forum from time to time) show that those cells don't have enough power. Their voltage and capacity are both way too low. So you can't work around getting CR123a.

The following seems to differ from Camera to Camera, else I can't find an explanation (the tray could be one but I assume you got a newer one).

The last time I really payed attention to the number I got about 320 (and medium review amount) shoots from Panasonic 2000mah nimh rechargables.
Unrechargable CR-V3 lastet 800 shoots.
The number of 310 (with lots of review) mentioned here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=6494635

from the taiwanese RCR-V3 is imho not that impressive, I still have to get my hands on the Korean RCR-V3, they should have a higher capacity.

More on that here:
http://www.sd9.org/hardware/batteryguide.htm

(that reminds that I have to do some major updates there)

Simon_S said:
However, in the morning the camera
started but immediately showed both sets of batteries as low and
would not take a picture. As this was my first set of batteries

What type of batteries in the Tray?

Simon_S said:
(only about 250 photos but lots of playing) I thought they may
require a change so I left the camera until the afternoon, when I
got back to where I had more batteries. The temperature overnight
had been around 5 degrees Centigrade and was back up to about 8 in
the morning – so well within the normal operating range of the
camera.

But maybe not in the operating range of the batteries...

Simon_S said:
Does anyone have any ideas whether this was battery, temperature,
CF, firmware (1.4.0.1302) or silly-user related? I bought the
camera with the idea of taking it to the snow over Christmas for
ski/landscape photos but if it is affected by 5 degrees I hate to
think how badly it might take 0.

Well give me some more input on the above. Did you try to leave the CR123a and just replace the batteries in the tray?

Simon_S said:
Flash:
The final question (and thank you to all those who have managed to
read this far!) is to ask about a good flash to use with the SD9.
My main use for a flash will be people shots indoors / night as the
rest of my shots tend to be outdoor and landscape photos. So a
small travel-friendly unit would be good – any ideas / comments /
etc?

Your only real option is the EF 500 Super DG.

--
Regards from Old Europe,

Dominic

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross

Zone8 · Nov 9, 2003

Hi Simon,

First, I solved all battery problems by using only the straight CR123a and CRV3, which I was advised by Laurence Matson and which I got when their price became more acceptable.. These are available at (now) low and practical cost from http://www.7dayshop.com (may still have free postage offer) but also check http://www.photoglossy.com as they seem to alternate with the best offers at any time. Energizer CRV3s were around £6.99 for two and Panasonic, just £1 more a pair. The CR123a ones are often offered in four or six sets - at around only £1.25 each (compared to Boots own brand at around £6.99 each!) or less if bought in sets. Not sure about the 123a but others have reported getting around 800 shots from a pair of the CRV3s - really extremely good value and relatively nothing compared to equivalent film and processing costs.

In general, I thought same as you about the "economies" of using rechargeable AAs but that proved disastrous and in hindsight, expensive in real terms. Since using the "real" ones, the camera has performed faultlessly. There are rechargeable CRV3s but at a huge price - IMHO the lithium ones are the best route. You may get all sorts of conflicting advice but no one who uses the lithium versions reports any problems. It's good advice!

At least the SD9 price you will have paid was reasonable and from what I have seen so far, is equally as good in real terms as the SD10. I for one have no wish to change.

Regarding the "fault" - I have not suffered from low temperatues - well, I should rephrase that - the camera hasn't

With camera on for long period, it is just possible that the batteries (depending on what it had set itself to) may have drained OR could have simply been recording empty whereas leaving them out for a time could have let them recover. Worth trying them again sometime.

I shall leave the flash aspect to others - as I use an old Braun (powerful) and that seems to work fine, even though the manual warns dire promises of extinction but I only use it on manual, which is how I have always used my cameras since nineteen hundred and frozen to death!

Zone8

Simon_S · Nov 9, 2003

Dominic Groß said:
Dominic Groß wrote:

More on that here:
http://www.sd9.org/hardware/batteryguide.htm

What type of batteries in the Tray?

Tray - Panasonic PowerMax3 (Alkaline) and the Camera ones were Panasonic PowerLithium's. These were ones I bought with the camera, at the shop (for the usual over-inflated price for batteries).

Replacements bought "on the road" were Duracell Plus (Alkaline) for the tray and Duracell Ultra in the camera. Now looking at the info page you posted (above) and some other info to see about the next set to buy. Unfortunately (being a hobby photographer) my camera and testing use is generally only on the weekends...

Dominic Groß said:
But maybe not in the operating range of the batteries...

Excellent point. The temperature wasn't within the operating parameters of my brain that morning (neither was the effects of minimal sleep) so maybe the batteries just couldn't cope. Like me.

I shall certainly be taking a few different types of cells to the ski slopes to avoid any unforseen operating issues. Maybe some of those CR-V3's would be a good idea?

Dominic Groß said:
Well give me some more input on the above. Did you try to leave the
CR123a and just replace the batteries in the tray?

I did try a few different combinations but I was in a rush (people arriving, event starting) so, with the "CF" message, I just gave up and replaced all the batteries. However, I do still have the batteries and will try them in a more controlled environment and where there are backups handy.

Dominic Groß said:
Your only real option is the EF 500 Super DG.

I have heard people using the flash - is it the "only real option" because it's a sigma connector or because it's the only decent working unit?

Dominic Groß said:
--
Regards from Old Europe,

Dominic

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross

I'm sorry, I don't get the "Old Europe" bit... ???

Some nice photos in your gallery... seeing a roo lazing around does remind me somewhat of home.

Simon

Halldor Eiriksson · Nov 9, 2003

Dominic Groß said:
Your only real option is the EF 500 Super DG.

I just bought the EF 500 DG ST flash and I'm just not getting it to work properly on my SD9. With camera set on P mode and flash on TTL, I get ok pictures, but it always shoots wide open, whether I'm close or far away from the subject, it's always F=1.8 or F=2.0. If I pull the wide angle panel down, I get way too overexposed pictures. I'm using a 20mm fixed focal. The flash unit puts the red indication light on 28mm. Well, it doesn't go lower than that. It seems this flash is designed for the SA series, not the SD. I thought 20mm on SD9 was equivalent to 35mm lens on 35mm film cameras. I have not been able to get decent shots from the Mh and Ml settings. Should I have spent extra 50 bucks on the Super DG? I tried aperture priority mode on the camera. With aperture set on 5.6, the flash did fire ok, but the camera set the speed to 2 minutes. I've been hired to shoot a party two weeks from now, I wonder if I have to revert to my old film gear. Hope somebody can help me. Otherwise, I'm overwhelmed bye the quality of pictures I'm getting from this camera.
Regards, Halldor

raven · Nov 9, 2003

1)

If you decide to use AA´s it ist ESSENTIAL to use a real good charger! I have tested several since I am doing digital photography for some years, there are not many that do a good job. The only one I can really recommend is the new Usmart by GPbatteries. As the shut-off point with NiMH can only be reliably detected at high charging current (or you need microvolt detection which is actually too expensive for manufacturers) many of the slow chargers (including the 1 hour ones!) overcharge the batteries which leads to battery faults very quickly.

Btw if you are a bit into electronics you can easily convert the CR123 operation to one additional AA by using the 4.8V of the tray, somebody has posted this including photos of the conversion.
2)

I have the SD-9 now for about two months and still have no Sigma Flash because there is so little reliable information about it. I still use my old SB-28 Nikon flash, it works fine but only on manual exposure.

Simon_S said:
Firstly, thanks to all for the useful information posted here ? it
helped me make a decision about buying an SD9 by providing an
insight into the camera?s limitations/faults and how people are
working with it. Since most reviews adequately highlight what is
good and bad with a particular model, I find it great to know what
people love/hate about the unit on a personal, working-with-it
level.

Unfortunately no-one mentioned (or seemed to know) that the SD10
would be released three days after I handed over my cash! If I
didn?t like the SD9 so much and have a relaxed attitude to the
?it?s out of date two months before you buy it? issue I may have
been quite annoyed!

Anyway, on to a few questions about the SD9?

Batteries:
When doing my pre-purchase reading I noted a few comments passing
back and forwards about batteries and the use of rechargeables. As
I would prefer to use some type of rechargeable can people who are
using them give me an idea how much ?worse? they are compared to
normal batteries and the brands that are good/bad. Obviously the
AA?s are easier to find but can you get CD123A variants in
rechargeable too? Also, are there any good web sites for buying
batteries (especially the CR123A?s) in the UK?

Fault:
I had an interesting ?fault? on Saturday. Having travelled to a
friend?s place in the countryside on Friday night, taken a couple
of photos (and shown off the fantastic new camera!) I put the
camera back in its case (one of those padded Lowepack ones) and put
it back in the boot of the car (as it was in a secured area in the
middle of nowhere I thought it would be safe enough).
In the evening the battery meter on the top of the camera had shown
both sets of batteries as full. However, in the morning the camera
started but immediately showed both sets of batteries as low and
would not take a picture. As this was my first set of batteries
(only about 250 photos but lots of playing) I thought they may
require a change so I left the camera until the afternoon, when I
got back to where I had more batteries. The temperature overnight
had been around 5 degrees Centigrade and was back up to about 8 in
the morning ? so well within the normal operating range of the
camera.
In the afternoon, as I went to replace all of the batteries I
noticed the camera showed them all as ok again. A single photo
later it showed the batteries as still ok but had CF showing in the
(top) display and wouldn?t do a thing. The CF card is a new Lexar
1GB high speed model that has shown no other problems so far. I
popped the batteries out and back in again and the display showed
them as flat but the CF as fine. So I then swapped the batteries
for the new set and all has been fine since.
Does anyone have any ideas whether this was battery, temperature,
CF, firmware (1.4.0.1302) or silly-user related? I bought the
camera with the idea of taking it to the snow over Christmas for
ski/landscape photos but if it is affected by 5 degrees I hate to
think how badly it might take 0.

Flash:
The final question (and thank you to all those who have managed to
read this far!) is to ask about a good flash to use with the SD9.
My main use for a flash will be people shots indoors / night as the
rest of my shots tend to be outdoor and landscape photos. So a
small travel-friendly unit would be good ? any ideas / comments /
etc?

Thanks to any and all who respond.
Simon

Laurence Matson · Nov 10, 2003

Halldor,

Have you read the manual for the flash carefully?

Halldor Eiriksson said:
Dominic Groß said:

Your only real option is the EF 500 Super DG.

Click to expand...

I just bought the EF 500 DG ST flash and I'm just not getting it to
work properly on my SD9. With camera set on P mode and flash on
TTL, I get ok pictures, but it always shoots wide open, whether I'm
close or far away from the subject, it's always F=1.8 or F=2.0. If
I pull the wide angle panel down, I get way too overexposed
pictures. I'm using a 20mm fixed focal. The flash unit puts the red
indication light on 28mm. Well, it doesn't go lower than that. It
seems this flash is designed for the SA series, not the SD. I
thought 20mm on SD9 was equivalent to 35mm lens on 35mm film
cameras. I have not been able to get decent shots from the Mh and
Ml settings. Should I have spent extra 50 bucks on the Super DG? I
tried aperture priority mode on the camera. With aperture set on
5.6, the flash did fire ok, but the camera set the speed to 2
minutes. I've been hired to shoot a party two weeks from now, I
wonder if I have to revert to my old film gear. Hope somebody can
help me. Otherwise, I'm overwhelmed bye the quality of pictures I'm
getting from this camera.
Regards, Halldor

--
Laurence Φ€ 08 LL

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/sd9_images
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)

Dominic Groß · Nov 10, 2003

Simon_S said:
Tray - Panasonic PowerMax3 (Alkaline) and the Camera ones were
Panasonic PowerLithium's.

Ok average Alkalines should last even less time than NiMH rechargables. So your number of 240 seems to be ok. If you are after unrechargable AA cells the Panasonic PowerEdge do a good job, considering the price you are probably better off with CR-V3 or good NiMH rechargables.

Simon_S said:
I shall certainly be taking a few different types of cells to the
ski slopes to avoid any unforseen operating issues. Maybe some of
those CR-V3's would be a good idea?

I would say for below 0° C the CR-V3 are a good idea.

Simon_S said:
However, I do still have the
batteries and will try them in a more controlled environment and
where there are backups handy.

Try if the CR123a are still good, you can certainly forget about the others.

Simon_S said:
Simon_S said:

Your only real option is the EF 500 Super DG.

Click to expand...

I have heard people using the flash - is it the "only real option"
because it's a sigma connector or because it's the only decent
working unit?

I think so, if you want automatic flash exposure you should go for this model. And read the Manual this is what throws most people off (for example the one who replied below that one).

Simon_S said:
I'm sorry, I don't get the "Old Europe" bit... ???

Ask Mr. Rumsfeld about it

--
Regards from Old Europe,

Dominic

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross

Halldor Eiriksson · Nov 10, 2003

Laurence Matson said:
Halldor,

Have you read the manual for the flash carefully?

It sounds like I have done no reading, but actually I have read it carefully, In my opinion. First of all, I would like to find out why the camera always shoots wide open with flash set on TTL and P mode set on camera. Anyone with the 500 DG ST flash here that would like to comment?

Dominic Groß · Nov 10, 2003

Read it again till you get how it works...

Halldor Eiriksson said:
Laurence Matson said:

Halldor,

Have you read the manual for the flash carefully?

Click to expand...

It sounds like I have done no reading, but actually I have read it
carefully, In my opinion. First of all, I would like to find out
why the camera always shoots wide open with flash set on TTL and P
mode set on camera. Anyone with the 500 DG ST flash here that would
like to comment?

--
Regards from Old Europe,

Dominic

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross

Halldor Eiriksson · Nov 10, 2003

Dominic Groß said:
Halldor Eiriksson said:

Laurence Matson said:

Halldor,

Have you read the manual for the flash carefully?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments, guys, maybe I really should have read the back of the flash more carefully than the manual. There it says: ELECTRONIC FLASH EF-500 DG ST SA !! I think I got the wrong flash shipped by Adorama. This is clearly for the SA film camera. Sorry for the trouble. I will have to ship it back to USA and hope they provide me with the correct one. The Sigma homepage is not of much help, it only mentions EF 500 DG ST and EF 500 DG SUPER. Confusing I think, my flash has the extra SA in the end. Not a word about that on the sigma homepage.

Fred R. Elias Jr. · Nov 10, 2003

Halldor Eiriksson said:
Thanks for your comments, guys, maybe I really should have read the
back of the flash more carefully than the manual. There it says:
ELECTRONIC FLASH EF-500 DG ST SA !! I think I got the wrong flash
shipped by Adorama. This is clearly for the SA film camera. Sorry
for the trouble. I will have to ship it back to USA and hope they
provide me with the correct one. The Sigma homepage is not of much
help, it only mentions EF 500 DG ST and EF 500 DG SUPER. Confusing
I think, my flash has the extra SA in the end. Not a word about
that on the sigma homepage.

If that is your problem I think we ALL have it. The camera manual specifies that the SA model is the appropriate unit(s). I have returned my SD-9 and flash to Sigma twice due to the flash taking underexposed pictures. I don't mean just a little, two full stops or better. If the SA was inappropriate for the SD-9 I think they would have caught it by now. My natural light exposures tend to be on the dark side also. My SD-9 in its present state is totally unusable for TTL flash photography. After spending 7 of the last twelve weeks with Sigma it is no better. If I had tried this camera before I bought it I never would have.

I am anxiously waiting for the authorized Firmware update. Maybe firmware update will help out problem. Sigma has been of no help to me and refuses to discuss the firmware update other than to say they MIGHT make an update available for the SD-9 sometime.

Dominic Groß · Nov 11, 2003

SA on the flash or the manual indicates that it has the flash connector for sigma cameras. So don't send it back. I say it again, read the manual....

I will maybe email you in some hours.. but don't have the time now...

Halldor Eiriksson said:
Thanks for your comments, guys, maybe I really should have read the
back of the flash more carefully than the manual. There it says:
ELECTRONIC FLASH EF-500 DG ST SA !! I think I got the wrong flash
shipped by Adorama. This is clearly for the SA film camera. Sorry
for the trouble. I will have to ship it back to USA and hope they
provide me with the correct one. The Sigma homepage is not of much
help, it only mentions EF 500 DG ST and EF 500 DG SUPER. Confusing
I think, my flash has the extra SA in the end. Not a word about
that on the sigma homepage.

--
Regards from Old Europe,

Dominic

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross

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SD9 Question on batteries, flash & a possible fault

Simon_S

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tammons

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Zone8

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raven

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