Lightest sports/action/BIF long zooms to complement your P950/P1000

• The max aperture numbers for "Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 70-300mm + Fujinon XF2X TC" are now corrected.
• A new solution, "Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 100-400mm + Fujinon XF2X TC", is added.
• "BIF solutions" in the title is changed to "fast shooters" to better indicate my applications. A new section "Applications" is added.

• BIF, but not small bird in flight: Small birds like the kingfisher fly fast and generally I won't try to follow them in flight even with a long-zoom fast shooter. Most people's reflexes simply can't catch up with them.
• In-place fast action: Imagine a kingfisher is eating a fish while perching on a branch. The eating process takes merely seconds if it's a small fish, and every second in this process the beak and fish are constantly moving. So aiming and AF won't be a problem (as the bird perches in the same place) but a high shutter speed is essential. This is when the solutions greater than 1000mm on the list below can come into play.
• Handheld shooting of "in-place fast action" or a stationary target: Imagine a kingfisher is eating a fish while perching on a branch, or is simply perching still on a branch, and you want to take a handheld snapshot. Likewise, aiming and AF won't be a problem as the bird stays in the same place, but a high shutter speed is required to reduce/eliminate camera shake caused by shaky hands.

• Sony RX10M4 (1.1kg, 24-600mm, F2.4-4)
• Sony a6600 + Sony E 70-350mm (1.1kg, 115-575mm, F4.5-6.3)
  Some people regard this as the successor to the RX10M4, with the new Real-time Tracking autofocus technology which can "seamlessly and reliably transition from subject tracking to face detection and finally to eye detection".
• There are other approaches to reach 600mm with a light weight, for example: Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 75-300mm II (0.8kg, 150-600mm, F4.8–6.7)

• Olympus E-M5 III + Panasonic Leica 100-400mm (1.4kg, 200-800mm, F4.0-6.3)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm (1.5kg, 200-800mm, F5.0-6.3)
• (Discontinued) A Nikon 1 series camera (here represented by Nikon 1 J5 as it's the only one in the series with >=20MP) + Nikon 1 70-300mm (0.8kg, 194-830mm, F4.5-5.6)

• Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 70-300mm + Fujinon XF2X TC (1.1kg, 239-1026mm, F8-11)
  Courtesy of Fzuseruk (Labe) and Martin_99. This article has more information on the mentioned lens and teleconverter.

• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter (1.6kg, 280-1120mm, F7.1-9.0)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 300mm F4 Pro + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (1.8kg, 1200mm, F8.0)
• Canon EOS R5 + Canon RF 800mm F11 (2.0kg, 1200mm, F11)
• Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 100-400mm + Fujinon XF2X TC (1.9kg, 342-1368mm, F9-11)
  Courtesy of Fzuseruk (Labe) and Martin_99. This article has more information on the mentioned lens and teleconverter.

• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (1.7kg, 400-1600mm, F10-13)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x Pro + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (without using the internal 1.25x TC: 2.4kg, 600-1600mm, F9.0)

• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x Pro + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (using the internal 1.25x TC: 2.4kg, 750-2000mm, F11)

Booted Cat said:

The P950 and P1000 are ultrazoom slow shooters that work best on a tripod:


Nikon P1000, 2000mm, 1/15s, own work

So naturally their owners here may want long-zoom snapshooters for sports, action and BIF to complement these ultrazoom slow shooters, and wise, lazy people want solutions that are as light as possible.


Sony RX10M4, 600mm, 1/2500s, an official sample photo from Sony

I just completed an exhaustive study on lightweight long-zoom snapshooters and actually I didn't find anything new. The usual 3 lightest solutions are:

• Sony RX10M4 (1.1kg, 24-600mm, F2.4-4)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Panasonic Leica 100-400mm (1.4kg, 200-800mm, F4.0-6.3)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter (1.5kg (without TC) / 1.6kg (with TC), 200-800mm (without TC) / 280-1120mm (with TC), F5.0-6.3 (without TC) / F7.1-9.0 (with TC)*)

* F7.1-9.0 (with TC) is according to this YouTube video at 2:46.

Click to expand...

Booted Cat said:

What's Updated

• The max aperture numbers for "Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 70-300mm + Fujinon XF2X TC" are now corrected.
• A new solution, "Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 100-400mm + Fujinon XF2X TC", is added.
• "BIF solutions" in the title is changed to "fast shooters" to better indicate my applications. A new section "Applications" is added.

Applications

I think a lightweight long-zoom fast shooter (e.g. Canon R5 + RF 800mm F11 which at 2.0kg can reach 1200mm EFL when cropped to 20MP) can find 3 applications:

• BIF, but not small bird in flight: Small birds like the kingfisher fly fast and generally I won't try to follow them in flight even with a long-zoom fast shooter. Most people's reflexes simply can't catch up with them.
• In-place fast action: Imagine a kingfisher is eating a fish while perching on a branch. The eating process takes merely seconds if it's a small fish, and every second in this process the beak and fish are constantly moving. So aiming and AF won't be a problem (as the bird perches in the same place) but a high shutter speed is essential. This is when the solutions greater than 1000mm on the list below can come into play.
• Handheld shooting of "in-place fast action" or a stationary target: Imagine a kingfisher is eating a fish while perching on a branch, or is simply perching still on a branch, and you want to take a handheld snapshot. Likewise, aiming and AF won't be a problem as the bird stays in the same place, but a high shutter speed is required to reduce/eliminate camera shake caused by shaky hands.

A list of the lightest long-zoom fast shooters

All focal lengths below are adjusted as if cropped to 20MP.

600mm+

• Sony RX10M4 (1.1kg, 24-600mm, F2.4-4)
• Sony a6600 + Sony E 70-350mm (1.1kg, 115-575mm, F4.5-6.3)
  Some people regard this as the successor to the RX10M4, with the new Real-time Tracking autofocus technology which can "seamlessly and reliably transition from subject tracking to face detection and finally to eye detection".
• There are other approaches to reach 600mm with a light weight, for example: Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 75-300mm II (0.8kg, 150-600mm, F4.8–6.7)

800mm+

• Olympus E-M5 III + Panasonic Leica 100-400mm (1.4kg, 200-800mm, F4.0-6.3)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm (1.5kg, 200-800mm, F5.0-6.3)
• (Discontinued) A Nikon 1 series camera (here represented by Nikon 1 J5 as it's the only one in the series with >=20MP) + Nikon 1 70-300mm (0.8kg, 194-830mm, F4.5-5.6)

1000mm+

• Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 70-300mm + Fujinon XF2X TC (1.1kg, 239-1026mm, F8-11)
  Courtesy of Fzuseruk (Labe) and Martin_99. This article has more information on the mentioned lens and teleconverter.

1120mm+

• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter (1.6kg, 280-1120mm, F7.1-9.0)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 300mm F4 Pro + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (1.8kg, 1200mm, F8.0)
• Canon EOS R5 + Canon RF 800mm F11 (2.0kg, 1200mm, F11)
• Fujifilm X-T30 + Fujifilm XF 100-400mm + Fujinon XF2X TC (1.9kg, 342-1368mm, F9-11)
  Courtesy of Fzuseruk (Labe) and Martin_99. This article has more information on the mentioned lens and teleconverter.

1600mm+

• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (1.7kg, 400-1600mm, F10-13)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x Pro + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (without using the internal 1.25x TC: 2.4kg, 600-1600mm, F9.0)

2000mm+

• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x Pro + Olympus MC-20 2x Teleconverter (using the internal 1.25x TC: 2.4kg, 750-2000mm, F11)

Booted Cat said:

The P950 and P1000 are ultrazoom slow shooters that work best on a tripod:


Nikon P1000, 2000mm, 1/15s, own work

So naturally their owners here may want long-zoom snapshooters for sports, action and BIF to complement these ultrazoom slow shooters, and wise, lazy people want solutions that are as light as possible.


Sony RX10M4, 600mm, 1/2500s, an official sample photo from Sony

I just completed an exhaustive study on lightweight long-zoom snapshooters and actually I didn't find anything new. The usual 3 lightest solutions are:

• Sony RX10M4 (1.1kg, 24-600mm, F2.4-4)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Panasonic Leica 100-400mm (1.4kg, 200-800mm, F4.0-6.3)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter (1.5kg (without TC) / 1.6kg (with TC), 200-800mm (without TC) / 280-1120mm (with TC), F5.0-6.3 (without TC) / F7.1-9.0 (with TC)*)

* F7.1-9.0 (with TC) is according to this YouTube video at 2:46.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Paul I'm wondering if 2000mm and above would be much more difficult because birds only stay within the field of view for a fraction of a second at those extreme magnifications.

Click to expand...

yes it is difficult but it’s not impossible

Fujiuseruk said:

Did you have focus set in advance (focus lock)?

Click to expand...

no it was point , lock focus and press shutter, it’s more about knowing the traits of the subject..

Fujiuseruk said:

That's a CDAF camera correct?

Click to expand...

no Panasonic use a contrast type of AF called DFD which I find is faster than my Olympus was .

Fujiuseruk said:

I should be able to do the same with my P900?

Click to expand...

it’s a lot harder with P900 as Nikon CDAF is slower than the Panasonic and there’s a lot more glass to move ..

Click to expand...

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

da7329 said:

Forget about 2x TCs they will just not work for BIF. AF slows and will not keep up. Take all the off the list. Some cameras will work just ok with a 1.4TC. Forget the oly 75-300 just to slow. Also the E-M5 will not have the AF performance of the sonys. The only oly that even get close to the Sony AF is the lastest OM-1. For oly you need at least an E-M1. I read the z50 with the 300pf and 1.4 does fairly good.

DA

Click to expand...

Oly 75-300 works fine with AF locked in advance

Click to expand...

not been funny but even a manual focus only set up can be used using that method . We are talking about a camera system that can actively track a subject with AF .

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

How much is that Fuji combo that weighs 1.1 kg, I find that to be a real standout for focal length and weight. Also, if funds are a consideration, Paul's combo which reaches 2000mm sounds interesting too.

--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

How much is that Fuji combo that weighs 1.1 kg, I find that to be a real standout for focal length and weight. Also, if funds are a consideration, Paul's combo which reaches 2000mm sounds interesting too.

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

Click to expand...

Booted Cat said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

How much is that Fuji combo that weighs 1.1 kg, I find that to be a real standout for focal length and weight. Also, if funds are a consideration, Paul's combo which reaches 2000mm sounds interesting too.

Click to expand...

You mean "fz330 with lt-55 and izoom lol (2040mm) handheld"? That's digital zoom.

More on FZ330:

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consum...digital-cameras/bridge-cameras/dmc-fz330.html

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Paul I'm wondering if 2000mm and above would be much more difficult because birds only stay within the field of view for a fraction of a second at those extreme magnifications.

Click to expand...

yes it is difficult but it’s not impossible

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Did you have focus set in advance (focus lock)?

Click to expand...

no it was point , lock focus and press shutter, it’s more about knowing the traits of the subject..

OutsideTheMatrix said:

That's a CDAF camera correct?

Click to expand...

no Panasonic use a contrast type of AF called DFD which I find is faster than my Olympus was .

OutsideTheMatrix said:

I should be able to do the same with my P900?

Click to expand...

it’s a lot harder with P900 as Nikon CDAF is slower than the Panasonic and there’s a lot more glass to move ..

Click to expand...

oh wow so it's a lot faster than P950 autofocus too? You've had both did you notice any faster focusing on the P950 compared to the P900? And since you don't do RAW, did you only upgrade for the better EVF? The noise levels are nearly identical between the two , no? and can the Panny do tracking AF well too?

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

How much is that Fuji combo that weighs 1.1 kg, I find that to be a real standout for focal length and weight. Also, if funds are a consideration, Paul's combo which reaches 2000mm sounds interesting too.

Click to expand...

Booted Cat said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

How much is that Fuji combo that weighs 1.1 kg, I find that to be a real standout for focal length and weight. Also, if funds are a consideration, Paul's combo which reaches 2000mm sounds interesting too.

Click to expand...

You mean "fz330 with lt-55 and izoom lol (2040mm) handheld"? That's digital zoom.

More on FZ330:

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consum...digital-cameras/bridge-cameras/dmc-fz330.html

Click to expand...

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Paul I'm wondering if 2000mm and above would be much more difficult because birds only stay within the field of view for a fraction of a second at those extreme magnifications.

Click to expand...

yes it is difficult but it’s not impossible

Fujiuseruk said:

Did you have focus set in advance (focus lock)?

Click to expand...

no it was point , lock focus and press shutter, it’s more about knowing the traits of the subject..

Fujiuseruk said:

That's a CDAF camera correct?

Click to expand...

no Panasonic use a contrast type of AF called DFD which I find is faster than my Olympus was .

Fujiuseruk said:

I should be able to do the same with my P900?

Click to expand...

it’s a lot harder with P900 as Nikon CDAF is slower than the Panasonic and there’s a lot more glass to move ..

Click to expand...

oh wow so it's a lot faster than P950 autofocus too? You've had both did you notice any faster focusing on the P950 compared to the P900? And since you don't do RAW, did you only upgrade for the better EVF? The noise levels are nearly identical between the two , no? and can the Panny do tracking AF well too?

Click to expand...

Didn’t try tracking AF directly but did switch to AFF with switches automatically and did ok , could track a bicycle in a road race ok .

I switched to the 950 for the better evf, hotshoe and bigger battery . AF does feel a little more positive than the 900 but still hunts a lot .

Click to expand...

jackwelch said:

Booted Cat said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

How much is that Fuji combo that weighs 1.1 kg, I find that to be a real standout for focal length and weight. Also, if funds are a consideration, Paul's combo which reaches 2000mm sounds interesting too.

Click to expand...

You mean "fz330 with lt-55 and izoom lol (2040mm) handheld"? That's digital zoom.

More on FZ330:

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consum...digital-cameras/bridge-cameras/dmc-fz330.html

Click to expand...

FZ300/FZ330 ($450) with DMW-LT55 1.7x teleconverter ($138) and DMW-LA7 adapter ($7 on AliExpress), total $595 (CNY 3932), you got there a nice budget set up. 1020mm focal length.

But Booted Cat already has a P1000, I don't think it makes sense to get the FZ300. Does the FZ300 offer something the P1000 doesn't?

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Paul I'm wondering if 2000mm and above would be much more difficult because birds only stay within the field of view for a fraction of a second at those extreme magnifications.

Click to expand...

yes it is difficult but it’s not impossible

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Did you have focus set in advance (focus lock)?

Click to expand...

no it was point , lock focus and press shutter, it’s more about knowing the traits of the subject..

OutsideTheMatrix said:

That's a CDAF camera correct?

Click to expand...

no Panasonic use a contrast type of AF called DFD which I find is faster than my Olympus was .

OutsideTheMatrix said:

I should be able to do the same with my P900?

Click to expand...

it’s a lot harder with P900 as Nikon CDAF is slower than the Panasonic and there’s a lot more glass to move ..

Click to expand...

oh wow so it's a lot faster than P950 autofocus too? You've had both did you notice any faster focusing on the P950 compared to the P900? And since you don't do RAW, did you only upgrade for the better EVF? The noise levels are nearly identical between the two , no? and can the Panny do tracking AF well too?

Click to expand...

Didn’t try tracking AF directly but did switch to AFF with switches automatically and did ok , could track a bicycle in a road race ok .

I switched to the 950 for the better evf, hotshoe and bigger battery . AF does feel a little more positive than the 900 but still hunts a lot .

Click to expand...

noise profile, etc, is the same for both cameras though Paul?

also with the Panny....I think there are cameras they make that can get to 2000mm EFL without digital zoom-- I think the FZ70 and FZ80 can do that with the same 1.7x TC you have-- why don't you have one of those cameras and is their AF of the same type and just as quick as your camera's?

Click to expand...

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Paul I'm wondering if 2000mm and above would be much more difficult because birds only stay within the field of view for a fraction of a second at those extreme magnifications.

Click to expand...

yes it is difficult but it’s not impossible

Fujiuseruk said:

Did you have focus set in advance (focus lock)?

Click to expand...

no it was point , lock focus and press shutter, it’s more about knowing the traits of the subject..

Fujiuseruk said:

That's a CDAF camera correct?

Click to expand...

no Panasonic use a contrast type of AF called DFD which I find is faster than my Olympus was .

Fujiuseruk said:

I should be able to do the same with my P900?

Click to expand...

it’s a lot harder with P900 as Nikon CDAF is slower than the Panasonic and there’s a lot more glass to move ..

Click to expand...

oh wow so it's a lot faster than P950 autofocus too? You've had both did you notice any faster focusing on the P950 compared to the P900? And since you don't do RAW, did you only upgrade for the better EVF? The noise levels are nearly identical between the two , no? and can the Panny do tracking AF well too?

Click to expand...

Didn’t try tracking AF directly but did switch to AFF with switches automatically and did ok , could track a bicycle in a road race ok .

I switched to the 950 for the better evf, hotshoe and bigger battery . AF does feel a little more positive than the 900 but still hunts a lot .

Click to expand...

noise profile, etc, is the same for both cameras though Paul?

also with the Panny....I think there are cameras they make that can get to 2000mm EFL without digital zoom-- I think the FZ70 and FZ80 can do that with the same 1.7x TC you have-- why don't you have one of those cameras and is their AF of the same type and just as quick as your camera's?

Click to expand...

Because those cameras are not in the same league, they are cheap no thrills, slow variable aperture non Leica lens, fixed lcd . The AF isn’t as good . The NR is over zealous in jpegs .

Click to expand...

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Fzuseruk said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Paul I'm wondering if 2000mm and above would be much more difficult because birds only stay within the field of view for a fraction of a second at those extreme magnifications.

Click to expand...

yes it is difficult but it’s not impossible

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Did you have focus set in advance (focus lock)?

Click to expand...

no it was point , lock focus and press shutter, it’s more about knowing the traits of the subject..

OutsideTheMatrix said:

That's a CDAF camera correct?

Click to expand...

no Panasonic use a contrast type of AF called DFD which I find is faster than my Olympus was .

OutsideTheMatrix said:

I should be able to do the same with my P900?

Click to expand...

it’s a lot harder with P900 as Nikon CDAF is slower than the Panasonic and there’s a lot more glass to move ..

Click to expand...

oh wow so it's a lot faster than P950 autofocus too? You've had both did you notice any faster focusing on the P950 compared to the P900? And since you don't do RAW, did you only upgrade for the better EVF? The noise levels are nearly identical between the two , no? and can the Panny do tracking AF well too?

Click to expand...

Didn’t try tracking AF directly but did switch to AFF with switches automatically and did ok , could track a bicycle in a road race ok .

I switched to the 950 for the better evf, hotshoe and bigger battery . AF does feel a little more positive than the 900 but still hunts a lot .

Click to expand...

noise profile, etc, is the same for both cameras though Paul?

also with the Panny....I think there are cameras they make that can get to 2000mm EFL without digital zoom-- I think the FZ70 and FZ80 can do that with the same 1.7x TC you have-- why don't you have one of those cameras and is their AF of the same type and just as quick as your camera's?

Click to expand...

Because those cameras are not in the same league, they are cheap no thrills, slow variable aperture non Leica lens, fixed lcd . The AF isn’t as good . The NR is over zealous in jpegs .

Click to expand...

Paul, what is the highest focal length camera in the Panny lineup that takes that teleconverter and has the bright Leica lens and the fast AF you mentioned?

Click to expand...

da7329 said:

Just go with the rx10-4 it will shoot circles around anything else in your budget. It will go good with your p1000. I did some tests with the P950 at 800mm and min focus distance. I shot 600mm and 800mm on the P950 and 600mm on the rx from the same distance. The rx image was larger than the P950 at 600mm. I needed to shot the P950 at 700+ mm to equal the rx. So your getting an extra 100mm from the rx compared to the P950. Maybe due to lens magnification or something. At 800mm only need a small crop on the RX to equal the P950. You can crop the rx to 16mp no problem. Even 12mp looks pretty good.

DA

Click to expand...

Booted Cat said:

The P950 and P1000 are ultrazoom slow shooters that work best on a tripod:


Nikon P1000, 2000mm, 1/15s, own work

So naturally their owners here may want long-zoom snapshooters for sports, action and BIF to complement these ultrazoom slow shooters, and wise, lazy people want solutions that are as light as possible.


Sony RX10M4, 600mm, 1/2500s, an official sample photo from Sony

I just completed an exhaustive study on lightweight long-zoom snapshooters and actually I didn't find anything new. The usual 3 lightest solutions are:

• Sony RX10M4 (1.1kg, 24-600mm, F2.4-4)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Panasonic Leica 100-400mm (1.4kg, 200-800mm, F4.0-6.3)
• Olympus E-M5 III + Olympus 100-400mm + Olympus MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter (1.5kg (without TC) / 1.6kg (with TC), 200-800mm (without TC) / 280-1120mm (with TC), F5.0-6.3 (without TC) / F7.1-9.0 (with TC)*)

* F7.1-9.0 (with TC) is according to this YouTube video at 2:46.

Click to expand...