Lightest sports/action/BIF long zooms to complement your P950/P1000

If you're going the ILC route, should also consider something with a Tamron 18-300mm or Tamron 18-400mm lens.

Never used them but I've always preferred all in one vs having to change lenses.
No, the 18-400 is heavily criticized on the "Camera, Lens and System Buying Advice" forum as it has very slow AF speeds, not suitable for BIF. People say the RX10M4 can achieve fast AF because the body and lens are designed for each other.
I dont know if fast AF is all that important with my EM10 Mk2 and 75-300 lens I lock focus on a favorite perch and take pictures of birds flying on and off it, the focus distance is the same so no reason for continuous autofocus. The camera can shoot 8 fps until the card is full so I just keep shooting when a bird is perched and get all the BIF shots I need when it takes off.
Good for you. But I have lost enthusiasm in finding a BIF solution that matches my weight and budget limits (the RX10M4 is cool but 600mm isn't good for a kingfisher). Maybe that 10000 yuan is to be spent elsewhere (not on a camera).
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
 
If you're going the ILC route, should also consider something with a Tamron 18-300mm or Tamron 18-400mm lens.

Never used them but I've always preferred all in one vs having to change lenses.
No, the 18-400 is heavily criticized on the "Camera, Lens and System Buying Advice" forum as it has very slow AF speeds, not suitable for BIF. People say the RX10M4 can achieve fast AF because the body and lens are designed for each other.
I dont know if fast AF is all that important with my EM10 Mk2 and 75-300 lens I lock focus on a favorite perch and take pictures of birds flying on and off it, the focus distance is the same so no reason for continuous autofocus. The camera can shoot 8 fps until the card is full so I just keep shooting when a bird is perched and get all the BIF shots I need when it takes off.
Good for you. But I have lost enthusiasm in finding a BIF solution that matches my weight and budget limits (the RX10M4 is cool but 600mm isn't good for a kingfisher). Maybe that 10000 yuan is to be spent elsewhere (not on a camera).
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
What for birds in flight , kingfisher diving for fish etc . He already has a P1000 and is very proficient with it especially with kingfisher photography but he wants something with much faster auto focus and 800mm of reach to complement his P1000


so no an Olympus camera with contrast only AF isn’t going to help so it needs to be a high end model with phase detect .

If you read the thread you will read he wants shots like this so good tracking and fast continuous AF are a must



e26a49492b2f42aeab8c1d0c3ca54334.jpg
 
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
I have played around spotting scopes, they aren't really that great, maybe usable for static objects.

1) it needs to be mounted on a tripod so you don't have fast mobility to move around

2) there is no image stabilization, you're going to have a hard time following something fast.

3) you lose out on image quality
 
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If you're going the ILC route, should also consider something with a Tamron 18-300mm or Tamron 18-400mm lens.

Never used them but I've always preferred all in one vs having to change lenses.
No, the 18-400 is heavily criticized on the "Camera, Lens and System Buying Advice" forum as it has very slow AF speeds, not suitable for BIF. People say the RX10M4 can achieve fast AF because the body and lens are designed for each other.
I dont know if fast AF is all that important with my EM10 Mk2 and 75-300 lens I lock focus on a favorite perch and take pictures of birds flying on and off it, the focus distance is the same so no reason for continuous autofocus. The camera can shoot 8 fps until the card is full so I just keep shooting when a bird is perched and get all the BIF shots I need when it takes off.
Good for you. But I have lost enthusiasm in finding a BIF solution that matches my weight and budget limits (the RX10M4 is cool but 600mm isn't good for a kingfisher). Maybe that 10000 yuan is to be spent elsewhere (not on a camera).
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
What for birds in flight , kingfisher diving for fish etc . He already has a P1000 and is very proficient with it especially with kingfisher photography but he wants something with much faster auto focus and 800mm of reach to complement his P1000

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66063036

so no an Olympus camera with contrast only AF isn’t going to help so it needs to be a high end model with phase detect .

If you read the thread you will read he wants shots like this so good tracking and fast continuous AF are a must

e26a49492b2f42aeab8c1d0c3ca54334.jpg
Thank you all for caring about me! Looks like for now the RX10M4 is the perfect and only choice for me. Actually, that 10000 yuan budget has not been gathered yet - I sold a used premium laptop (Asus ZenBook Flip S) to my mother for 7000 yuan last year but she has never used it or paid me the money; I have a seldom used Canon SX740 HS which I will test night heron BIF performance and if it doesn't outperform my Nikon A1000 I will sell it for 2000 yuan. I will save another 1000 yuan from my weekly allowances so that's where this 10000 yuan budget comes from. As you can see now, the budget hasn't been gathered yet...

If it is ever gathered, I want to spend it on something that refreshes me as the last gift I buy myself before I start serious business - making money. 2022 will be my start year to make money, after 19 years of doing research.
 
Hope you bank some real coin in 2022. What you're seeking doesn't exist at a 'reasonable' price point. RX10, while a fine camera(I'd take one if given to me), is only 600mm. If price were no issue, I'd go with one of the new Canon or Nikon mirrorless for the larger sensor. Easy to get closer to 1000mm, just add weight & $$$.
 
Hope you bank some real coin in 2022. What you're seeking doesn't exist at a 'reasonable' price point. RX10, while a fine camera(I'd take one if given to me), is only 600mm. If price were no issue, I'd go with one of the new Canon or Nikon mirrorless for the larger sensor. Easy to get closer to 1000mm, just add weight & $$$.
So there is always a possibility to spend that budget on something else (not a camera) and stay with my P1000. If birding is not considered (birding was not my original purpose to buy a P900/P1000; international plane spotting was), the RX10M4 suffices to do plane spotting - there is a spot at Pudong Int'l Airport, Shanghai to photograph taxiing international airliners at 400mm EFL, which is a perfect scenario for the RX10M4. But it's still not a good time to see planes from all nations coming to Shanghai, you know.
 
Hope you bank some real coin in 2022. What you're seeking doesn't exist at a 'reasonable' price point. RX10, while a fine camera(I'd take one if given to me), is only 600mm. If price were no issue, I'd go with one of the new Canon or Nikon mirrorless for the larger sensor. Easy to get closer to 1000mm, just add weight & $$$.
So there is always a possibility to spend that budget on something else (not a camera) and stay with my P1000. If birding is not considered (birding was not my original purpose to buy a P900/P1000; international plane spotting was), the RX10M4 suffices to do plane spotting - there is a spot at Pudong Int'l Airport, Shanghai to photograph taxiing international airliners at 400mm EFL, which is a perfect scenario for the RX10M4. But it's still not a good time to see planes from all nations coming to Shanghai, you know.
The Sony sounds perfect in your scenario. I sure enjoy watching planes, hopefully China will open back up soon when this round of virus plays out. It's been a brutal couple of years for the world.
 
If you're going the ILC route, should also consider something with a Tamron 18-300mm or Tamron 18-400mm lens.

Never used them but I've always preferred all in one vs having to change lenses.
No, the 18-400 is heavily criticized on the "Camera, Lens and System Buying Advice" forum as it has very slow AF speeds, not suitable for BIF. People say the RX10M4 can achieve fast AF because the body and lens are designed for each other.
I dont know if fast AF is all that important with my EM10 Mk2 and 75-300 lens I lock focus on a favorite perch and take pictures of birds flying on and off it, the focus distance is the same so no reason for continuous autofocus. The camera can shoot 8 fps until the card is full so I just keep shooting when a bird is perched and get all the BIF shots I need when it takes off.
Good for you. But I have lost enthusiasm in finding a BIF solution that matches my weight and budget limits (the RX10M4 is cool but 600mm isn't good for a kingfisher). Maybe that 10000 yuan is to be spent elsewhere (not on a camera).
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
What for birds in flight , kingfisher diving for fish etc . He already has a P1000 and is very proficient with it especially with kingfisher photography but he wants something with much faster auto focus and 800mm of reach to complement his P1000

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66063036

so no an Olympus camera with contrast only AF isn’t going to help so it needs to be a high end model with phase detect .

If you read the thread you will read he wants shots like this so good tracking and fast continuous AF are a must

e26a49492b2f42aeab8c1d0c3ca54334.jpg
What kind of camera can take a picture like that? I simply do BIF over a perch or a bird feeder for which the focus remains fixed so no need for continuous AF. A high aperture is used (f/9) for a deep area of focus, so the focus need not be precise, as there will be a decent depth of focus.

--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
 
Hope you bank some real coin in 2022. What you're seeking doesn't exist at a 'reasonable' price point. RX10, while a fine camera(I'd take one if given to me), is only 600mm. If price were no issue, I'd go with one of the new Canon or Nikon mirrorless for the larger sensor. Easy to get closer to 1000mm, just add weight & $$$.
Looks like "more focal range" combined with "better fast action / low light performance" (or simply "sBIF" - small bird in flight) is the money drain in the camera game. A bystander at a park told me birders are usually rich people (except us P950/P1000 users, haha), and indeed I found some birders I got acquainted with in kingfisher photography to be company owners.

Fortunately that money drain is physically limited by total weight for some people. Women and lazy cats like me, even with a sufficient budget, can't go for solutions >= 1.6kg. It's not a problem for you, Dodge.
 
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If you're going the ILC route, should also consider something with a Tamron 18-300mm or Tamron 18-400mm lens.

Never used them but I've always preferred all in one vs having to change lenses.
No, the 18-400 is heavily criticized on the "Camera, Lens and System Buying Advice" forum as it has very slow AF speeds, not suitable for BIF. People say the RX10M4 can achieve fast AF because the body and lens are designed for each other.
I dont know if fast AF is all that important with my EM10 Mk2 and 75-300 lens I lock focus on a favorite perch and take pictures of birds flying on and off it, the focus distance is the same so no reason for continuous autofocus. The camera can shoot 8 fps until the card is full so I just keep shooting when a bird is perched and get all the BIF shots I need when it takes off.
Good for you. But I have lost enthusiasm in finding a BIF solution that matches my weight and budget limits (the RX10M4 is cool but 600mm isn't good for a kingfisher). Maybe that 10000 yuan is to be spent elsewhere (not on a camera).
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
What for birds in flight , kingfisher diving for fish etc . He already has a P1000 and is very proficient with it especially with kingfisher photography but he wants something with much faster auto focus and 800mm of reach to complement his P1000

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66063036

so no an Olympus camera with contrast only AF isn’t going to help so it needs to be a high end model with phase detect .

If you read the thread you will read he wants shots like this so good tracking and fast continuous AF are a must

e26a49492b2f42aeab8c1d0c3ca54334.jpg
What kind of camera can take a picture like that? I simply do BIF over a perch or a bird feeder for which the focus remains fixed so no need for continuous AF. A high aperture is used (f/9) for a deep area of focus, so the focus need not be precise, as there will be a decent depth of focus.
Most dslr cameras and mirror less with a good zoom can as long as they have phase detect and good afc

my D7200 with sigma 150-600 had no problem at all
 
An Nikon N1 V2/3 with a CX 70/300 can work well and get to 810mm. I have an rx10-4 and a few N1 bodies and a CX 70-300. I often compare them the rx10-4 AF is a little newer and better and the sensor a little better but 600mm is max. The CX 70-300 is a very good sharp lens and was design for the N1’s and gets to 810mm. The V2/3 have very good phase detect AF and shoot at 15-20 FPS. The sensor will need some post noise reduction compared to the Sony but that’s not a limitation with latest NR software. Good kit in very good condition cost about $1000-1100 or so. Mostly the cost of the lens. A good very light budget birding kit. Perfect mate for a p950/1000.

DA
 
An Nikon N1 V2/3 with a CX 70/300 can work well and get to 810mm. I have an rx10-4 and a few N1 bodies and a CX 70-300. I often compare them the rx10-4 AF is a little newer and better and the sensor a little better but 600mm is max. The CX 70-300 is a very good sharp lens and was design for the N1’s and gets to 810mm. The V2/3 have very good phase detect AF and shoot at 15-20 FPS. The sensor will need some post noise reduction compared to the Sony but that’s not a limitation with latest NR software. Good kit in very good condition cost about $1000-1100 or so. Mostly the cost of the lens. A good very light budget birding kit. Perfect mate for a p950/1000.

DA
Since I'll be buying a toy, I want a new (instead of used) toy...
 
An Nikon N1 V2/3 with a CX 70/300 can work well and get to 810mm. I have an rx10-4 and a few N1 bodies and a CX 70-300. I often compare them the rx10-4 AF is a little newer and better and the sensor a little better but 600mm is max. The CX 70-300 is a very good sharp lens and was design for the N1’s and gets to 810mm. The V2/3 have very good phase detect AF and shoot at 15-20 FPS. The sensor will need some post noise reduction compared to the Sony but that’s not a limitation with latest NR software. Good kit in very good condition cost about $1000-1100 or so. Mostly the cost of the lens. A good very light budget birding kit. Perfect mate for a p950/1000.

DA
Such a shame they don't sell this anymore. I tried to search body and lens, while I can find the lens (extremely cheap too), I can't find a v2 or v3 body.

Just look at that size:

Nikon 1 V2 with 70-300mm cx lens
Nikon 1 V2 with 70-300mm cx lens

Would a Nikon 1 J1, J2 work for such set up? I can find J1, J2 used (cheap too)
 
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Hope you bank some real coin in 2022. What you're seeking doesn't exist at a 'reasonable' price point. RX10, while a fine camera(I'd take one if given to me), is only 600mm. If price were no issue, I'd go with one of the new Canon or Nikon mirrorless for the larger sensor. Easy to get closer to 1000mm, just add weight & $$$.
Why not Sony? The following article does rank the Sony A1 as the top mirrorless BIF solution:

The Best Mirrorless Cameras for Birds in Flight Ranked - Mirrorless Comparison
 
Should not be to hard to find a V1/V2/V3. I have several. The V3 will be the most expensive. As you need the EVF and the grip. I call it my mini D500. A good CX 70-300 is more difficult to find. I would not worry about buying used. I have many cameras and lens I almost never buy new unless there is some super blow out sale. The J models will not work for birds as no EVF on those models. Thomas Stirr is a master at shooting birds with this kit. He get amazing results with these small cameras. Nikon was way ahead of its time with the AF on these cams I find it hard to believe they had so much trouble with the Z6/7 cams. I guess the z9 finally has AF working.

DA
 
If you're going the ILC route, should also consider something with a Tamron 18-300mm or Tamron 18-400mm lens.

Never used them but I've always preferred all in one vs having to change lenses.
No, the 18-400 is heavily criticized on the "Camera, Lens and System Buying Advice" forum as it has very slow AF speeds, not suitable for BIF. People say the RX10M4 can achieve fast AF because the body and lens are designed for each other.
I dont know if fast AF is all that important with my EM10 Mk2 and 75-300 lens I lock focus on a favorite perch and take pictures of birds flying on and off it, the focus distance is the same so no reason for continuous autofocus. The camera can shoot 8 fps until the card is full so I just keep shooting when a bird is perched and get all the BIF shots I need when it takes off.
Good for you. But I have lost enthusiasm in finding a BIF solution that matches my weight and budget limits (the RX10M4 is cool but 600mm isn't good for a kingfisher). Maybe that 10000 yuan is to be spent elsewhere (not on a camera).
I have an idea but you may or may not like it.

Have you considered a spotting scope? They are lighter and cost less than lenses and you can hook up your mirrorless camera to one and get thousands of mm in focal length.
What for birds in flight , kingfisher diving for fish etc . He already has a P1000 and is very proficient with it especially with kingfisher photography but he wants something with much faster auto focus and 800mm of reach to complement his P1000

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66063036

so no an Olympus camera with contrast only AF isn’t going to help so it needs to be a high end model with phase detect .

If you read the thread you will read he wants shots like this so good tracking and fast continuous AF are a must

e26a49492b2f42aeab8c1d0c3ca54334.jpg
What kind of camera can take a picture like that? I simply do BIF over a perch or a bird feeder for which the focus remains fixed so no need for continuous AF. A high aperture is used (f/9) for a deep area of focus, so the focus need not be precise, as there will be a decent depth of focus.
Most dslr cameras and mirror less with a good zoom can as long as they have phase detect and good afc

my D7200 with sigma 150-600 had no problem at all
If Sigma 150-600 Contemporary is used, how do you think of these two setups?
  1. Canon 90D + Sigma 150-600 C (7800+5500=13300 yuan, 701+1930=2631g)
  2. Canon M6 II + Adapter EF-EOS M + Sigma 150-600 C (5900+579+5500=11979 yuan, 408+154+1930=2492g)
 
If Sigma 150-600 Contemporary is used, how do you think of these two setups?
  1. Canon 90D + Sigma 150-600 C (7800+5500=13300 yuan, 701+1930=2631g)
  2. Canon M6 II + Adapter EF-EOS M + Sigma 150-600 C (5900+579+5500=11979 yuan, 408+154+1930=2492g)
well the contemporary isn’t as large or as fast focusing as the sport but it is lighter .
I’m really not a canon fan at all and 90D viewfinder AF doesn’t read well on this site .

The sigma is large and heavy in use which is why I got rid . It’s better used with tripod and gimbal or a monopod.

ab2b55f95f0c44379d40945b4403251a.jpg

so my plan is to get the RX10 for now and wait until Sony get the A6400 back in stock . I’m then going to get the new sigma 150-600 sport in the native mount and yes it’s well out of your budget and weight target as the lens alone is the same price as the RX here in the uk .

Add a tripod and gimbal and just use it on dedicated photography outings and stick with p950 and RX when I’m just out for a walk.
 
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Should not be to hard to find a V1/V2/V3. I have several. The V3 will be the most expensive. As you need the EVF and the grip. I call it my mini D500. A good CX 70-300 is more difficult to find. I would not worry about buying used. I have many cameras and lens I almost never buy new unless there is some super blow out sale. The J models will not work for birds as no EVF on those models. Thomas Stirr is a master at shooting birds with this kit. He get amazing results with these small cameras. Nikon was way ahead of its time with the AF on these cams I find it hard to believe they had so much trouble with the Z6/7 cams. I guess the z9 finally has AF working.

DA
How is this combo better than say a EM10 Mk2 with the 75-300mm lens? The 300mm focal length is the same on both lenses and I would say the Oly camera has many more features. I also dont understand why 1" sensor cameras were made with the old film 3:2 aspect ratio I much prefer 4:3 and that is what the Oly has.

--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
 
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Should not be to hard to find a V1/V2/V3. I have several. The V3 will be the most expensive. As you need the EVF and the grip. I call it my mini D500. A good CX 70-300 is more difficult to find. I would not worry about buying used. I have many cameras and lens I almost never buy new unless there is some super blow out sale. The J models will not work for birds as no EVF on those models. Thomas Stirr is a master at shooting birds with this kit. He get amazing results with these small cameras. Nikon was way ahead of its time with the AF on these cams I find it hard to believe they had so much trouble with the Z6/7 cams. I guess the z9 finally has AF working.

DA
How is this combo better than say a EM10 Mk2 with the 75-300mm lens? The 300mm focal length is the same on both lenses and I would say the Oly camera has many more features. I also dont understand why 1" sensor cameras were made with the old film 3:2 aspect ratio I much prefer 4:3 and that is what the Oly has.
Hmmm.
the Nikon has a 2.7 crop so a 300mm lens gives 810mm vs Olympus 2* crop 600mm .

the v1 had 20fps drive if memory serves me right and the AF was faster in use.
The 1” sensor is actually based on a super 16 format hence the wider ratio.

Just like full frame was based on 35mm film ,
 
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I have an E-M1 m2 and the 75-300 ii. It’s ok but needs to be updated to make it more pro quality. Faster focus motors and sharper optics at the long end. The CX 70-300 lens is a much better lens with 810 mm rather than 600mm reach. The oly 100-400 is better than the 75-300 but it weights about the same as FF 100-400s. The best thing about the oly is features.



DA
 

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