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Are you on the fence about buying an A1?

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morepix said:
Olivier ... Thanks for letting us hear from you. You seem to be
feeling secure about being able to get rid of a faulty item. To
some extent we have at least short-term protection and product
return possibility here in the States too. I still question how
much testing we should have to do and what risk we should have to
run on a new item that we pay nearly 1000 Euros for (or is it
more?).
Click to expand...
I realize that I may have underestimated your concern and I understand it better now.

Anyway, as for any long term owning item (TV sets, stereos, ovens, cameras, DVD players,...) you can't make a real life test before buying.

The only exception may be for cars since you can, for some of them, rent one at Hertz or Avis prior to buy the same at a retailer. And even for cars, you'll never find a rental one with the same level of equipment as you're looking for.
So I think it's a dead end concern, although I don't minimize it.
--
Olivier_from_Paris
 
PDM,

Here's a test pic I took in a store:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23078686/large

and there are others in the same gallery you might look at.

Is this A1 OK?

We're not ragging about the A1, we would immediately buy one if we knew for sure we would get a decent unit.
PDM said:
Morepix, you continue to rag on the A1, but you haven't even tested
one (let alone own one), AFAIK. This thread is nothing but more
bitc*n, complaining, and fretting getting repeated again and again
by you. The only people likely to post to this thread are going to
be doing just that. What your not busy enough doing the same on the
other threads your involved in? I'm beginning to question your
motivation...

Paul
morepix said:
Are you interested in the A1 but unable so far to decide whether or
not to buy one? Maybe it would help others in the same boat if
you'd share your thoughts about:

1. What's holding you back?

2. What might lead you to decide to buy one?

3. What might lead you to decide finally not to buy one?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
---------------------------------------
What happens when an unstoppable force
meets an immovable object?
 
Nothing to do with Minoltas, cameras, photography, much of anything I guess. NLP = Neuro-Linguistic Programming, a psych movement based on hypnotic patterns in language; started in the 1970s-'80s and is still going. Did I hear you say that's a bit off topic? :)
mark moe said:
mark moe said:
With these questions you must have some NLP training!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
**** Rijken said:
PDM,

Here's a test pic I took in a store:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23078686/large

and there are others in the same gallery you might look at.

Is this A1 OK?

We're not ragging about the A1, we would immediately buy one if we
knew for sure we would get a decent unit.
Click to expand...
****,

I had a look at both the pic and the EXIF information. Looks like there's some grain but the shutter speed is 1/30s and that may explain. Did you use antishake?
Anyway, would you print this shot at nominal size or 4x6" ?
Honestly, you can find a better unit but this one seems acceptable.

Try this link http://www.pbase.com/image/23107180 and tell me if you consider it better.
--
Olivier_from_Paris
 
I understand you're asking if there's a test and evaluation suite we could use. Yes, it would be nice if there were. I don't recall having seen any recommendations along those lines on this forum so far.
**** Rijken said:
What would be the best way to find out if a specific camera is OK
when you're holding one in your hands in a store?
Click to expand...
 
Olivier Tréger said:
**** Rijken said:
PDM,

Here's a test pic I took in a store:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23078686/large

and there are others in the same gallery you might look at.

Is this A1 OK?

We're not ragging about the A1, we would immediately buy one if we
knew for sure we would get a decent unit.
Click to expand...
****,

I had a look at both the pic and the EXIF information. Looks like
there's some grain but the shutter speed is 1/30s and that may
explain. Did you use antishake?
Anyway, would you print this shot at nominal size or 4x6" ?
Honestly, you can find a better unit but this one seems acceptable.
Try this link http://www.pbase.com/image/23107180 and tell me if
you consider it better.
--
Olivier_from_Paris
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with you. Your pic(s) look better than the ones I took in that store, but 'my' cam seems to be 'so-so': not a nightmare, but could be better.

How would you test an A1 in a store?
 
**** Rijken said:
I tend to agree with you. Your pic(s) look better than the ones I
took in that store, but 'my' cam seems to be 'so-so': not a
nightmare, but could be better.

How would you test an A1 in a store?
Click to expand...
Well,
  • first of all, find a Minolta store if any and avoid large electronics stores or stores as we have in France (FNAC who sell PDAs, TV sets, books, videos, cameras and whatever they tend to call cultural products). This way you augment your chances to meet a motivated reseller.
  • stores are often lighted with neon lights so first of all, the white balance has to be set
  • try to shoot either enlightened items as well as dark and/or shadowed subjects
  • ask for testing with a flash unit as well as the embedded one
  • force ISO value to different settings
  • make intensive use of bracketing so you don't have to navigate around all settings yourself
  • use manual focus for specific tests
  • disable AF tracking
I may have forgot some issues... as far as I'm of good advice and that's definitely not sure... ;-)
--
Olivier_from_Paris
 
Now here's a post I will printout and bring along on my hunt for a good A1. I'll bring an empty 128MB card as well...

Merci bien!
Olivier Tréger said:
**** Rijken said:
I tend to agree with you. Your pic(s) look better than the ones I
took in that store, but 'my' cam seems to be 'so-so': not a
nightmare, but could be better.

How would you test an A1 in a store?
Click to expand...
Well,
  • first of all, find a Minolta store if any and avoid large
electronics stores or stores as we have in France (FNAC who sell
PDAs, TV sets, books, videos, cameras and whatever they tend to
call cultural products). This way you augment your chances to meet
a motivated reseller.
  • stores are often lighted with neon lights so first of all, the
white balance has to be set
  • try to shoot either enlightened items as well as dark and/or
shadowed subjects
  • ask for testing with a flash unit as well as the embedded one
  • force ISO value to different settings
  • make intensive use of bracketing so you don't have to navigate
around all settings yourself
  • use manual focus for specific tests
  • disable AF tracking
I may have forgot some issues... as far as I'm of good advice and
that's definitely not sure... ;-)
--
Olivier_from_Paris
Click to expand...
--
---------------------------------------
What happens when an unstoppable force
meets an immovable object?
 
**** Rijken said:
What would be the best way to find out if a specific camera is OK
when you're holding one in your hands in a store?
Click to expand...
Hi ****,
I don't know. Maybe you have to go outside and take some pics.
However: I loaded your original picture of the shop: #1.

Scrutinized it and I was not so sure anymore. Loaded one of my own D7 pictures of a low light church interior, resized till 1024x768: Excellent. Found the original church interior: Worse than your shop picture.
Resized your original shop picture till 1024X768: Superb !!
The resizing at Pbase is maybe not the best.

Maybe you should Irfanview ( http://www.irfanview.com ) a try. Freeware and the best viewer and "resizer" I know. (Lanczos filter)
Hans
 
**** Rijken said:
Merci bien!
Olivier Tréger said:
**** Rijken said:
I tend to agree with you. Your pic(s) look better than the ones I
took in that store, but 'my' cam seems to be 'so-so': not a
nightmare, but could be better.

How would you test an A1 in a store?
Click to expand...
Well,
  • first of all, find a Minolta store if any and avoid large
electronics stores or stores as we have in France (FNAC who sell
PDAs, TV sets, books, videos, cameras and whatever they tend to
call cultural products). This way you augment your chances to meet
a motivated reseller.
  • stores are often lighted with neon lights so first of all, the
white balance has to be set
  • try to shoot either enlightened items as well as dark and/or
shadowed subjects
  • ask for testing with a flash unit as well as the embedded one
  • force ISO value to different settings
  • make intensive use of bracketing so you don't have to navigate
around all settings yourself
  • use manual focus for specific tests
  • disable AF tracking
I may have forgot some issues... as far as I'm of good advice and
that's definitely not sure... ;-)
--
Olivier_from_Paris
Click to expand...
--
---------------------------------------
What happens when an unstoppable force
meets an immovable object?
Click to expand...
--
Olivier_from_Paris
 
Maybe add:
  • Lens cap test to discover hot/stuck pixels?
  • Long exposure of a dark corner of the store
  • Anti-shake
  • Why not AF tracking too?
Olivier Tréger said:
  • stores are often lighted with neon lights so first of all, the
white balance has to be set
  • try to shoot either enlightened items as well as dark and/or
shadowed subjects
  • ask for testing with a flash unit as well as the embedded one
  • force ISO value to different settings
  • make intensive use of bracketing so you don't have to navigate
around all settings yourself
  • use manual focus for specific tests
  • disable AF tracking
Click to expand...
 
I'm a Mac user, IRfanview is windows-only :-(

Think I won't buy that particular camera, just to be sure, but I'm gonna keep hunting...

Thanks!
Hans said:
**** Rijken said:
What would be the best way to find out if a specific camera is OK
when you're holding one in your hands in a store?
Click to expand...
Hi ****,
I don't know. Maybe you have to go outside and take some pics.
However: I loaded your original picture of the shop: #1.
Scrutinized it and I was not so sure anymore. Loaded one of my own
D7 pictures of a low light church interior, resized till 1024x768:
Excellent. Found the original church interior: Worse than your shop
picture.
Resized your original shop picture till 1024X768: Superb !!
The resizing at Pbase is maybe not the best.
Maybe you should Irfanview ( http://www.irfanview.com ) a try. Freeware
and the best viewer and "resizer" I know. (Lanczos filter)
Hans
Click to expand...
--
---------------------------------------
What happens when an unstoppable force
meets an immovable object?
 
morepix said:
1. What's holding you back?
Click to expand...
I'm waiting to see what gets announced at PMA in February. I have a Canon G2 which is good enough for my purposes at the moment that I'm not in a hurry to run out and buy another camera.

If an attractive DSLR system appears in the new year (Minolta Zeus, replacement for the Canon 10D, new Nikon and/or replacement for the Fuji S2), then I'll probably go the DSLR route and keep the G2 as my point-and-shoot.

If for some reason there's no DSLR that strikes my fancy or fits my budget, then I'll probably grab an A1. I'm also hoping that Minolta does what they did with the D7 and comes out with an improved A1i or whatever they want to call it.

Richard Drdul
Vancouver, BC
 
Thanks, Richard. You're happy with the camera you have now, but for an upgrade, you're on the fence between a DSLR and the A1, leaning toward a DSLR. That option set is a little easier than for a person who's ruled out DSLRs because of the size, lenses, etc. Hope you find something to suit you. Thanks for the reply.
Richard Drdul said:
... I'm also hoping that
Minolta does what they did with the D7 and comes out with an
improved A1i or whatever they want to call it.
Click to expand...
 
Yep, want one!
morepix said:
1. What's holding you back?
Click to expand...
The amount of topics on the noise issue and the fear that I might get 'a bad' one, since QC seems to be lacking. I don't think I have the ability to spot a bad one straight away, as some on this forum claim to be able to do. By the time I'm convinced mine should be better, it would probably be too late to return it.
morepix said:
2. What might lead you to decide to buy one?
Click to expand...
Any positive signal from Minolta that either the problem can and will be fixed, or a statement that convinces me that noise and QC problems are in fact less that with the 7i that I own now.
morepix said:
3. What might lead you to decide finally not to buy one?
Click to expand...
  • Silence, denial or marketing speak from Minolta.
  • A (very) bad review on this site
  • Competition coming up with a camera that (like the A1) suits my needs.
Cheers,
Onno
morepix said:
Are you interested in the A1 but unable so far to decide whether or
not to buy one? Maybe it would help others in the same boat if
you'd share your thoughts about:

1. What's holding you back?

2. What might lead you to decide to buy one?

3. What might lead you to decide finally not to buy one?
Click to expand...
 
PDM wrote:
I'm beginning to question your
PDM said:
motivation...
Click to expand...
I find myself n exactly the same dilemma, so find nothing wrong or unusual about the question posed in this thread.

I want to upgrade from my Sony DSC F77/ F55DX cameras and would prefer something fast and compact (although I'd really like to have a go on an 828 to see if the extra bulk/weight is worth it).

The A1 emerged as my front runner, but the more I read this forum, the more concerned I became about quality control issues/noise/hot pixels.

And so I find myself uncomfortably perched right on the middle of the fence: I want to buy a camera now but really don't fancy having to endure a protracted set of exchanges with a mail order supplier.

I want to be able to buy a camera with a reasonable level of confidence that it will perform exactly as advertised - and right now I'm not sure if that's possible with the A1 right now.

There's no denying that there's been some great reviews and images posted here from satisfied customers - but I simply can't ignore the growing catalogue of problems that some people are having.

The quicker Minolta publicly address these issues and reassure concerned customers, the better.
 
Thanks, Onno. You speak for me with the same concerns and intentions, better stated.

I'm thinking that once this thread has died out, I may try to turn it into a letter to Minolta in the hope of getting a promising response of some kind -- also, referring them to this thread, of course. Your responses will help greatly to make it clearer.
Onno Willems said:
Onno Willems said:
1. What's holding you back?
Click to expand...
The amount of topics on the noise issue and the fear that I might
get 'a bad' one, ...
Onno Willems said:
2. What might lead you to decide to buy one?
Click to expand...
Any positive signal from Minolta that either the problem can and
will be fixed, or a statement that convinces me that noise and QC
problems are in fact less ...
Onno Willems said:
3. What might lead you to decide finally not to buy one?
Click to expand...
  • Silence, denial or marketing speak from Minolta.
  • A (very) bad review on this site
  • Competition coming up with a camera that (like the A1) suits my
needs.
Click to expand...
 
Hi

I am waiting to hear from the Technical Rep from Minolta I met at photo day at the zoo.

Nice guy. I have asked him to help me swap the camera back for a new one. Asking for an admission that there is a problem is probably out of the question. He told me when he gave me his card that he shouldn't but did. I could email him.
morepix said:
I'm thinking that once this thread has died out, I may try to turn
it into a letter to Minolta in the hope of getting a promising
response of some kind -- also, referring them to this thread, of
course. Your responses will help greatly to make it clearer.
Onno Willems said:
morepix said:
1. What's holding you back?
Click to expand...
The amount of topics on the noise issue and the fear that I might
get 'a bad' one, ...
morepix said:
2. What might lead you to decide to buy one?
Click to expand...
Any positive signal from Minolta that either the problem can and
will be fixed, or a statement that convinces me that noise and QC
problems are in fact less ...
morepix said:
3. What might lead you to decide finally not to buy one?
Click to expand...
  • Silence, denial or marketing speak from Minolta.
  • A (very) bad review on this site
  • Competition coming up with a camera that (like the A1) suits my
needs.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
morepix said:
Thanks, Richard. You're happy with the camera you have now, but for
an upgrade, you're on the fence between a DSLR and the A1, leaning
toward a DSLR. That option set is a little easier than for a person
who's ruled out DSLRs because of the size, lenses, etc. Hope you
find something to suit you. Thanks for the reply.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm not leaning any one way in particular. It's too soon for me to be leaning. If I had to buy something now (if my G2 died on me or was stolen, for instance), I'd get the A1. I just don't think that this is the optimum time for me to buy a new digital camera. I've waited this long (have had my G2 for two years now, and have been wanting something better for at least a year) that I can hang in for a few more months to see what appears for PMA.

If I did buy an A1 now, I know I'd be happy as hell with it. The features the A1 has make it a quantum step up from my G2. I would really like to have a wider wide angle and a longer zoom, and would love to have the anti-shake feature. As reported in this forum, the noise levels with the A1 are apparently similar to what I get with my G2, and that hasn't stopped me from taking lots of photos for the past two years. I would definitely invest $99 in the Pro version of Noise Ninja, and I'd batch process any higher-ISO shots from the A1 through Noise Ninja.

Some of the things discouraging me from buying a DLSR are the size and weight of a DSLR, the lack of a preview on the LCD screen, and the cost of a whole "system." In comparsion, the A1 is a pretty attractive package. I figure if I hang in a few more months, Minolta will release an improved A1 (the A1i or whatever), another manufacturer will release their version of the A1, or someone will make a DSLR with enough going for it at a price I can afford that I can't resist.

I'm not usually a fence-sitter, but in this case I'm actually enjoying the anticipation of new cameras to come. It also avoids (defers?) the disappointment of buying a new camera only to hear a couple of weeks later that there is a new and improved model available. :-)

Good luck with your decision regarding the A1, and be sure to let us know what you decide.

Richard Drdul
Vancouver, BC
 
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