oldbaldeagle
Forum Enthusiast
why think of m43 when it is heavier , more expensive and has worse quality ?
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Conclusion & Decisions: OM-1 w/ Oly 150-400 PRO contrasted with Canon R5 w/ RF100-500 L
- Thread starter Captive18
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R2D2
Forum Pro
It is indeed very interesting how each manufacturer out there, and indeed each separate system has its own set of attributes that endears itself to a particular group of shooters. There's no right or wrong if the particular system that's chosen produces the results that a person is after! Kudos to you for doing your due diligence.
I do think that since you are going to be shooting with the RF 100-500 for a lot of your wildlife, that you might try the RF 1.4x TC. Performance is much closer to the bare lens than the 2x is. I have mine on nearly 100% of the time, and absolutely love it.
Another suggestion (since you'll be shooting at fairly high ISOs much of the time), is to make the move to DxO's Photolab 5 with its Deep Prime noise reduction. It's the great equalizer!
Have fun shooting! Holler if you have any questions.
R2
It is indeed very interesting how each manufacturer out there, and indeed each separate system has its own set of attributes that endears itself to a particular group of shooters. There's no right or wrong if the particular system that's chosen produces the results that a person is after! Kudos to you for doing your due diligence.
I do think that since you are going to be shooting with the RF 100-500 for a lot of your wildlife, that you might try the RF 1.4x TC. Performance is much closer to the bare lens than the 2x is. I have mine on nearly 100% of the time, and absolutely love it.
Another suggestion (since you'll be shooting at fairly high ISOs much of the time), is to make the move to DxO's Photolab 5 with its Deep Prime noise reduction. It's the great equalizer!
Have fun shooting! Holler if you have any questions.
R2
BirdShooter7
Forum Pro
Thanks, I’ll definitely check it out
Hi,
Going by your posts and extensive testing it is clear your priority has been BIF and wildlife.
However, did you get the chance to try people photography ?
The last m43 I had was E-M1 III and was trying to get along but then I tried the R6 and the difference in being able to get sharp pictures of my kids on the move without even trying was a revelation.
However, the allure of a do-it-all setup with OM-1 + Pro 12-100 is intriguing. But how is the AF compared to R5 for tracking people in practice ? Would be nice to know if you got the chance to try.
Thanks,
—C
Going by your posts and extensive testing it is clear your priority has been BIF and wildlife.
However, did you get the chance to try people photography ?
The last m43 I had was E-M1 III and was trying to get along but then I tried the R6 and the difference in being able to get sharp pictures of my kids on the move without even trying was a revelation.
However, the allure of a do-it-all setup with OM-1 + Pro 12-100 is intriguing. But how is the AF compared to R5 for tracking people in practice ? Would be nice to know if you got the chance to try.
Thanks,
—C
I didn’t get the chance to try it with people. I’m guessing the human AF would be similar between the two. The E-M1.3 I had prior was great at human AF.
P
ProDude
Guest
I could NOT have said it better myself. I totally agree with my highlighted parts to be sure. Most strongly advise folks to dump anything Adobe and move over the DXO Photolab 5 Prime and add Topaz DeNoise and Sharpen AI to the mix for those times they can add that final touch where the Prime may not be the best choice.It is indeed very interesting how each manufacturer out there, and indeed each separate system has its own set of attributes that endears itself to a particular group of shooters. There's no right or wrong if the particular system that's chosen produces the results that a person is after! Kudos to you for doing your due diligence.
I do think that since you are going to be shooting with the RF 100-500 for a lot of your wildlife, that you might try the RF 1.4x TC. Performance is much closer to the bare lens than the 2x is. I have mine on nearly 100% of the time, and absolutely love it.
Another suggestion (since you'll be shooting at fairly high ISOs much of the time), is to make the move to DxO's Photolab 5 with its Deep Prime noise reduction. It's the great equalizer!
Have fun shooting! Holler if you have any questions.
R2
I’m not sure who cares to engage with me about this on this forum, but I’d thought I post this hear as well to get continued feedback from both sides…
I made my decision and initial post on Friday night and decided I’d go through the weekend with how my decision to sell or send back the Oly/OM-System and/or keep/sell the Canon gear “felt.” Here’s the link with my long-winded reasoning on Friday: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66055753
Today, I’m found myself struggling with the decision and I don’t know why!!!
Technically, I can achieve very similar results with a 1.4x Extender on the RF 100-500 L. (Unfortunately, I don’t have that Extender available to try) Additionally, all the things I initially said in my initial post (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66055753) still hold true. With selling/returning the Oly/OM-System, I’d sacrifice cool computational features and a little bit of advertised weather-sealing, but gain portability and depth of field control (just factoring in the lens aperture) with the Canon. Why I am still struggling with this decision?
In this response: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66056849, someone mentioned to factor in other lens choices - this is an absolutely true and valid point. Other m4/3 lenses are smaller than FF counterparts currently available and still achieve great results. If I stayed with m4/3’s, I’d still want to go with Oly PRO glass. Taking this route, I can pretty much use the Oly 8-25 PRO and 12-100 PRO for almost everything I shoot. Pair that with the Oly 150-400, a Oly 60mm f2.8 Macro and a 25mm f1.2 PRO (or 45mm f1.2 PRO if I wanted more compression) and I’d be able to achieve: very good depth of field look with f2.4 equivalent on the shallow depth of field end, I could maintain excellent weather-sealing, I wouldn’t sacrifice noticeable image quality, I could maintain cool computational features, and aside from the 150-400, my backpack (for travel and hiking) would be pretty light. The downside? I would have to spend a bit more $$ on additional lenses.
On the flip side: Selling/returning the Oly/OM-System gear tomorrow, I would not be out any additional money (aside from getting the 1.4x Extender…and possibly a macro lens eventually…). I would have the creative flexibility with very shallow depth-of-field opportunities, and technically, have slightly better image quality (would it be noticeable to 95% of viewers?). With choosing Canon, I’d be limited on weather-sealing with some of the RF lenses (e.g. RF 50mm f1.8, RF 100-400 f5-8). However, with the weather-sealed lenses (e.g. RF 24-105, RF 100-500, RF 14-35) paired with the R5, I’d have good-enough weather-sealing for most situations, right? I could bring all those RF lenses on a hike/trip (granted that would probably be overkill…but I wouldn’t wish I would’ve brought a Focal length if an opportunity presented itself). And, I’d lose in-camera computational features such as LIVE ND and LIVE COMP, but be able to do most of that with filters and post-processing techniques….I would have to also carry a tripod….
Just externalizing some of my process here, but why Olympus/OM-System has a “hold on me” that I can’t explain! I’m posting this in the Canon forum as well, but I’m curious what other thoughts others have on this process. (I’m guessing each forum will be more swayed to their respective system), but I am eager to have more of a discussion.
Overall, please be polite and non-judgmental with this. I know I’m talking about expensive gear that many wish they had. Hear I am; in a very privileged position, to decide on two great systems! I am extremely grateful and blessed to be having such deliberations.
I am grateful for continued respectful feedback, or if anyone found themselves in similar situations. I’m not going to base my decision on what you recommend or say, but I am happy to discuss it more and potentially entertain valid points, I haven’t thought of yet.
In the end of all this, I am only keep one system.
(Also, technically, my 30 days return period is up after tomorrow, April 4th. And let’s be honest, even if I did wait until after that period, I can easily sell this gear to someone else and not lose much on the backend…If I do lose anything…I’m happy with chalking that up to “rental fees”).
As this is a camera forum, here’s a few photos from both camera’s of the same subject (a chipmunk). Without looking at the EXIF data, can you tell, which image is from which system? (edited to taste in Adobe Lightroom)
I made my decision and initial post on Friday night and decided I’d go through the weekend with how my decision to sell or send back the Oly/OM-System and/or keep/sell the Canon gear “felt.” Here’s the link with my long-winded reasoning on Friday: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66055753
Today, I’m found myself struggling with the decision and I don’t know why!!!
Technically, I can achieve very similar results with a 1.4x Extender on the RF 100-500 L. (Unfortunately, I don’t have that Extender available to try) Additionally, all the things I initially said in my initial post (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66055753) still hold true. With selling/returning the Oly/OM-System, I’d sacrifice cool computational features and a little bit of advertised weather-sealing, but gain portability and depth of field control (just factoring in the lens aperture) with the Canon. Why I am still struggling with this decision?
In this response: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66056849, someone mentioned to factor in other lens choices - this is an absolutely true and valid point. Other m4/3 lenses are smaller than FF counterparts currently available and still achieve great results. If I stayed with m4/3’s, I’d still want to go with Oly PRO glass. Taking this route, I can pretty much use the Oly 8-25 PRO and 12-100 PRO for almost everything I shoot. Pair that with the Oly 150-400, a Oly 60mm f2.8 Macro and a 25mm f1.2 PRO (or 45mm f1.2 PRO if I wanted more compression) and I’d be able to achieve: very good depth of field look with f2.4 equivalent on the shallow depth of field end, I could maintain excellent weather-sealing, I wouldn’t sacrifice noticeable image quality, I could maintain cool computational features, and aside from the 150-400, my backpack (for travel and hiking) would be pretty light. The downside? I would have to spend a bit more $$ on additional lenses.
On the flip side: Selling/returning the Oly/OM-System gear tomorrow, I would not be out any additional money (aside from getting the 1.4x Extender…and possibly a macro lens eventually…). I would have the creative flexibility with very shallow depth-of-field opportunities, and technically, have slightly better image quality (would it be noticeable to 95% of viewers?). With choosing Canon, I’d be limited on weather-sealing with some of the RF lenses (e.g. RF 50mm f1.8, RF 100-400 f5-8). However, with the weather-sealed lenses (e.g. RF 24-105, RF 100-500, RF 14-35) paired with the R5, I’d have good-enough weather-sealing for most situations, right? I could bring all those RF lenses on a hike/trip (granted that would probably be overkill…but I wouldn’t wish I would’ve brought a Focal length if an opportunity presented itself). And, I’d lose in-camera computational features such as LIVE ND and LIVE COMP, but be able to do most of that with filters and post-processing techniques….I would have to also carry a tripod….
Just externalizing some of my process here, but why Olympus/OM-System has a “hold on me” that I can’t explain! I’m posting this in the Canon forum as well, but I’m curious what other thoughts others have on this process. (I’m guessing each forum will be more swayed to their respective system), but I am eager to have more of a discussion.
Overall, please be polite and non-judgmental with this. I know I’m talking about expensive gear that many wish they had. Hear I am; in a very privileged position, to decide on two great systems! I am extremely grateful and blessed to be having such deliberations.
I am grateful for continued respectful feedback, or if anyone found themselves in similar situations. I’m not going to base my decision on what you recommend or say, but I am happy to discuss it more and potentially entertain valid points, I haven’t thought of yet.
In the end of all this, I am only keep one system.
(Also, technically, my 30 days return period is up after tomorrow, April 4th. And let’s be honest, even if I did wait until after that period, I can easily sell this gear to someone else and not lose much on the backend…If I do lose anything…I’m happy with chalking that up to “rental fees”).
As this is a camera forum, here’s a few photos from both camera’s of the same subject (a chipmunk). Without looking at the EXIF data, can you tell, which image is from which system? (edited to taste in Adobe Lightroom)
Steve Balcombe
Forum Pro
The problem is that you're not choosing between a good system and a bad one - would that it were so easy! You're choosing between a superb system and a superb system.
The difference in sensor size between 35 mm full frame and micro four-thirds is huge, and the resulting the image quality differences are not trivial. But maybe M43 is where your personal sweet spot lies. You can always buy a bigger car, but that doesn't mean you would necessarily want to.
The difference in sensor size between 35 mm full frame and micro four-thirds is huge, and the resulting the image quality differences are not trivial. But maybe M43 is where your personal sweet spot lies. You can always buy a bigger car, but that doesn't mean you would necessarily want to.
Martin Muehlemann
Senior Member
I am with you. I decided for the OM-1 two weeks ago an ditched all Canon R.
Because of a few but important points to me.
- Weather Sealing. I did have moisture behind my viewfinder in my R6 after having being in rain shower. for 30min.
- LiveND, LiveComposite. I always loved this Oly function
- It feels more comfortable for me in hands than the R6. All EM1.x actually did.
- OM-1 finally has the viewfinder which I have been always missing in Oly brand. No more argue for the R series
- Lenses of the Pro are stellar. Really as good as the RF lenses.
- Built like a tank. I have been with my EM1.2 in heavy rain for two hours, with the 300F4 Pro. Waves, salty water, my colleague with the Nikon has a broken D850 after 30min. Never, not a second would I like to miss such a trip. I lost in my live 2 Canon 5D3 bodies and one D810 due to nature. I never lost a single Olympus, never.
- AF-C (Servo) is now finally much better on OM-1 than any Oly before. Not yet R6, but close.
Interesting. Sounds like you do a fair bit of shooting in poor conditions. The weather-sealing is probably one of my biggest struggles to feel confident in. I feel like I don’t have to think about it with Olympus/OM-System. With Canon R5, I will think about it…
Thanks for your input and insight.
If you think about the whole system - i believe m43 is great, but with some compromises regarding a. Shallow dof and b. Lower light
yes, you can get shallow dof with specialry lenses like the 45/1.2
but look at zooms. 12-40/2.8 is like a ff 24-80/5.6 in regatds of shallow dof.
so there is nothing which compares to a 24-70/2.8 or 70200/2.8, or 85/1.2 or 200/2.0 or 400/2.8 in these regards.
same for low light.
I shot a Oly m43 under water and there I find the opposite to be true, more dof would be an advantage, same maybe for macro.
So I say it really on your needs.
yes, you can get shallow dof with specialry lenses like the 45/1.2
but look at zooms. 12-40/2.8 is like a ff 24-80/5.6 in regatds of shallow dof.
so there is nothing which compares to a 24-70/2.8 or 70200/2.8, or 85/1.2 or 200/2.0 or 400/2.8 in these regards.
same for low light.
I shot a Oly m43 under water and there I find the opposite to be true, more dof would be an advantage, same maybe for macro.
So I say it really on your needs.
Headsup7up
Active member
Agreed 100% with the bolded. I am a recent newcomer to a Canon EOS R from m4/3 and the dof and low light change is really something. That said, if I was really into macro I don't think there's a better system than m4/3. Having used both now they really excel at different things with some overlap in the middle.
P
ProDude
Guest
It is amazing that in our day and age we now have so many options to acquire just the right tool for the job so to speak. The OM-1 has moved Mft ahead considerably from all I've seen image wise and review wise. I've never had an OM-1 in my hand, but over the years had some of their other models to work with at one point.
Even back then, if you shot with care, more often then not you could get a very clean image without much worry over noise. NOW the options are greatly enhanced not just by the sensor but applying the likes of Topaz DeNoise and Sharpen AI. I've found files online from the OM-1 that I ran through those 2 programs and taken images that were shot at the likes of say ISO 21,800 and ended up looking as if it were more like ISO200. Crazy indeed. While the OM-1 offers the extended manipulated higher rez file capability, it's not quite up to the standards of say a FF 45mp sensor in the end. Does that really matter to you? That is one of several questions one needs to ask themselves when making a decision to go Mft with an OM-1 now in particular.
In the end there aren't too many things the OM-1 won't allow you to do, so in the end where is the argument? It's called "taste" even more so now than performance. It's my understanding the sensor used in the OM-1 exceeds low light sensitivity ratings greater then -6ev which is like darkness indeed. I can't say I'm not tempted to play with one and see myself. I keep fighting it off. What's in favor of that fight is it's not typically available anyway so why lose sleep over it. At some point the likes of a B&H may actually have deliverable stock, then I may be in trouble. LOL. Enjoy your OM-1's and great lenses folks I'm sure you will.
Broken D850...I literally would have cried if it was mine and maybe for him also if I was there. Hopefully, it was repairable?
I do agree though the Olympus stuff even back to the original 4/3rds E-1 was weather sealed to handle anything it seemed. Had a few camera stores tell me the same also...don't take the Nikon D3's out in the same weather you've exposed the E-1 to lest you want a brick to look at.
Looking at videos of the Canon BIF stuff if anyone considers Olympus now anywhere near close this OM-1 has come quite a long way. My X is good but the Canon videos with small birds appear as if magnetic.
Dan
I do agree though the Olympus stuff even back to the original 4/3rds E-1 was weather sealed to handle anything it seemed. Had a few camera stores tell me the same also...don't take the Nikon D3's out in the same weather you've exposed the E-1 to lest you want a brick to look at.
Looking at videos of the Canon BIF stuff if anyone considers Olympus now anywhere near close this OM-1 has come quite a long way. My X is good but the Canon videos with small birds appear as if magnetic.
Dan
FWIW, I've shot with Nikon and Canon in horrendous conditions and never had a problem. I've also never had a problem with Olympus. The only system I've had problems with in the field is Sony, so much so that even though the a1 is a spectacular camera and suits my needs to a T I won't buy one.
It's probably too late for me to contribute to your second thoughts, but if it were me one of the main deciding factors would be how my images are viewed. If the majority of your images are viewed digitally then the MP difference is not that relevant. If you print large and your images are viewed from close distances then the MP difference will be noticed. Your ability to crop is also more limited. Shooting a lower MP crop sensor body essentially crops your photo already. Just my two cents. YMMV. I have shot the OM-1 exclusively for the last three weeks with 300mm F4 with and without the 1.4 TC and 8-25 F4 and determined that I prefer the results produced by my Canon and Nikon gear.
Hello all,
First of all, thank you for all the helpful feedback, insights, and support! Thank you also for having patience with me and following my LOOONNNNGGG narratives and links describing my journey. (SIGH)....I've made my decision.
Someone in one of these threads/responses put it best by saying: It's hard because you are making a choice between a superb system and another superb system.
Another put it wisely in that: to make a decision is to suffer the loss. (paraphrasing here, but helpful nonetheless).
All this to say, both of these systems are amazing! One is not better than the other and it really comes down to how you want to use the camera system and what images you'd like to see as a result. (I think a few people replied with that insight)
And as another put it: 95% (or more possibly) you can achieve the same result with mindfulness and intention with the gear.
I've personally decided that staying with the Canon R5 system was the right choice for me and my current image-making journey.
Thank you all for your patience, knowledge, polite interaction, and insight!
First of all, thank you for all the helpful feedback, insights, and support! Thank you also for having patience with me and following my LOOONNNNGGG narratives and links describing my journey. (SIGH)....I've made my decision.
Someone in one of these threads/responses put it best by saying: It's hard because you are making a choice between a superb system and another superb system.
Another put it wisely in that: to make a decision is to suffer the loss. (paraphrasing here, but helpful nonetheless).
All this to say, both of these systems are amazing! One is not better than the other and it really comes down to how you want to use the camera system and what images you'd like to see as a result. (I think a few people replied with that insight)
And as another put it: 95% (or more possibly) you can achieve the same result with mindfulness and intention with the gear.
I've personally decided that staying with the Canon R5 system was the right choice for me and my current image-making journey.
Thank you all for your patience, knowledge, polite interaction, and insight!
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