What happens to the gear you guys are always returning?

Every time I come on this site I keep on hearing about all the gear "used" and returned. Don't you guys mind buying gear someone has used for a couple of weeks? The camera or lens could have been dropped. Would you trust a camera supplier to thorughly check out the returned item? Any thoughts?

In some countries returns are not free, the restocking fee should theoretically pay for an inspection or to allow the shop to sell the lens as open box with a discount to a less concerning customer.

Other shops may also be able to absorb the costs for inspection or discounts because the attractive image that a liberal return policy brings still increases profit overall.

I was kind of wondering that myself and have mixed feelings about it. From the perspective of the "tryer" who wants to ensure it meets expectations, and as the second buyer who gets used gear. The problem is if the seller/mfr then represents it as used gear.

And this can vary from quick buyer's remorse and it was never used, to being fully tested out for a month. And then is it returned with no issues, or returned because it has a defect. It's all built into the price in some way I suppose.

In many countries returning stuff is not easy. Sometimes people return for genuine reasons. Sellers are often allowed to deduct postage cost and/or extra cost of processing returns.

There could be a small number of people who return stuff while effectively hiring the gears for free. They can get away with few gears but if they do it consistently they can be banned by retailer (Amazon sometimes bans users if they detect consistent foul play).

As long as sellers re-sell returned gears as used then there is not much to complaint.

So I never buy used.

I have a G1 & 7-14 f/4, been dropped into a river by accident. Service Centre told me that they would die anytime. 8 years now they are still working as normal.

Since they are still looking very new (no scratch, no watermark etc), I can sell them as in mint condition. No one can tell until they will open up the lens or body to look at the electronics inside. If by luck they would not die within a few months of the sales (no reason they will), I can dump dying gear for a good price.

Of course I shall never do that.

There are a lot of hidden risk on buying used.

Weegee said:

Every time I come on this site I keep on hearing about all the gear "used" and returned. Don't you guys mind buying gear someone has used for a couple of weeks? The camera or lens could have been dropped. Would you trust a camera supplier to thorughly check out the returned item? Any thoughts?

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No, I don't mind buying used. Most of my gear is either used or refurbished. I buy from well-established sellers who allow returns for legitimate reasons.

New items can be dropped at any point from the production line to the shelf at your camera store.

I always use PayPal, which is very helpful in case there is an issue with the seller.

Weegee said:

Every time I come on this site I keep on hearing about all the gear "used" and returned. Don't you guys mind buying gear someone has used for a couple of weeks? The camera or lens could have been dropped. Would you trust a camera supplier to thorughly check out the returned item? Any thoughts?

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I buy used lenses almost exclusively and only had a problem with one, a 25mm 0.95 (Laowa?) from mpb.com that couldn't focus past about 20 meters. It worked spectacularly at closer distances so I can see how it passed inspection. I returned the lens and I was refunded without hassle.

I usually buy cameras new at major sellers indirectly through friends in Brooklyn but I have no reservations about buying used.

I don't know where you live, Weegee, but at least in North America, EU, and UK there are consumer protection laws. Reputable vendors see no profit in tarnishing their reputation by selling faulty merchandise or not allowing returns. I don't have to trust the supplier, as the law and their reputation is on my side.

Except for my PL 8-18, all my current gear is Used or Refurb used. I buy from trusted places that have good return policies and/or include warranties. For example, 12-100 included a 12 month Mack warranty, and my EM1.3 refurb (from Olympus website) included a 30 day return and 90 day warranty.

being patient and using trusted sources, the risk is minimal and one can save a bundle :-D

I buy only used camera bodies and lenses, mostly from Amazon here in Japan, due to their straightforward returns process. I have bought one of my E-M1 IIs from a retail shop specializing in used camera gear, called Fujiya. Camera gear is handled differently in Japan than in the US: generally it is in better condition than US eBay stuff (my only other online experience) with items listed as “Very Good” looking like they are brand new, just missing the original box. “Good” items arrive in “Very Good” shape, and so on. Japanese consumers seem to take good care of their stuff. The only unusual risk here is fungus, which I never encountered in the US (west coast). But, as with all other possible issues, Japanese sellers are typically quite honest about that, and post several clear photos of each product, to reduce ambiguity. Japan listings do not include shutter activation counts, though.

Prices are lower here than in the US, which I think is due to a more active photography scene here. I got both my E-M1 IIs for under US$515 apiece, for example. The first one had a good patina (clearly described and depicted in the listing) and ~30,000 shutter pulls. The second one looked new and had fewer than 4,700 shutter pulls. I was pretty happy about that.

The only real issues I’v had with used camera gear we’re both with US sellers: one (GM5) did not disclose or photograph a dent, and I suspect the other one (Stylus 1) had taken a dip. In both cases I didn’t bother shipping all the way back to the US. I was able to get both cameras working to me satisfaction, but I won’t be buying on eBay again.

All in all I have been quite happy with the experience. About nine months ago I purged a bunch of gear, cleaning it up before selling it back into the used ecosystem. I think for my Panasonic 14-140 (non-weather-sealed), I got back more than I paid for it. Overall I got back around 50% of what I paid for that batch, all of which was entry-level to midrange. I though that was a fair deal for basically renting the gear for a year, and I am guessing it’s all since been sold to more new photographers who want to explore the system. And I never dropped any of it!

UrbanHobbit said:

I buy only used camera bodies and lenses, mostly from Amazon here in Japan, due to their straightforward returns process. I have bought one of my E-M1 IIs from a retail shop specializing in used camera gear, called Fujiya. Camera gear is handled differently in Japan than in the US: generally it is in better condition than US eBay stuff (my only other online experience) with items listed as “Very Good” looking like they are brand new, just missing the original box. “Good” items arrive in “Very Good” shape, and so on. Japanese consumers seem to take good care of their stuff. The only unusual risk here is fungus, which I never encountered in the US (west coast). But, as with all other possible issues, Japanese sellers are typically quite honest about that, and post several clear photos of each product, to reduce ambiguity. Japan listings do not include shutter activation counts, though.

Prices are lower here than in the US, which I think is due to a more active photography scene here. I got both my E-M1 IIs for under US$515 apiece, for example. The first one had a good patina (clearly described and depicted in the listing) and ~30,000 shutter pulls. The second one looked new and had fewer than 4,700 shutter pulls. I was pretty happy about that.

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I have seen many nice pieces of equipment on eBay from sellers in Japan. Can you tell me if they are always configured for the Japanese language and can that be changed to English easily?

Limit myself to the Oly, er, OMD refurb page. That gear has been checked over to some level, plus with one exception the cameras show VERY few frames on the counter. Plus, 90-day warranty.

Have had just one exchange, back in my E-series days, so in sum have good confidence. The quality of the packing has varied, however.

I expect each reseller has to be considered individually WRT whether they do anything beyond a cursory look before offering each piece of gear. And since brick-and-morter is pretty much kaput in my area, previewing used gear in person is a thing of the past.

My $0.02,

Rick

Skeeterbytes said:

Limit myself to the Oly, er, OMD refurb page. That gear has been checked over to some level, plus with one exception the cameras show VERY few frames on the counter. Plus, 90-day warranty.

Have had just one exchange, back in my E-series days, so in sum have good confidence. The quality of the packing has varied, however.

I expect each reseller has to be considered individually WRT whether they do anything beyond a cursory look before offering each piece of gear. And since brick-and-morter is pretty much kaput in my area, previewing used gear in person is a thing of the past.

My $0.02,

Rick

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One of the many threads where the OP is turned around to something really different within a few posts. But alas. Nice to read these opinions anyway.

If I want to buy new I only buy from a few premium sellers with 5 years warranty. If I want to buy second hand I buy only from the most reputable sellers. EG. Very much like "Rebuy" in Europe! This store sells and buys with a very nice interface and gives 3 years full warranty on used. Dealing with them for many years and no hassle.

Weegee said:

Every time I come on this site I keep on hearing about all the gear "used" and returned. Don't you guys mind buying gear someone has used for a couple of weeks? The camera or lens could have been dropped. Would you trust a camera supplier to thorughly check out the returned item? Any thoughts?

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The returned gear, at least in the US, is supposed to be sold as either "open box', refurbished (by mfr or by seller). I have heard stories of people ordering gear advertised as new and getting a demo or open box unit instead. On the other hand, I have bought some gear advertised as open box that still had the seal on the box!

If the dealer ships out something that's not new by mistake, I'd expect them to make good on a replacement. In a brick and mortar store, it's easy enough to just check the seal on the box.

I rarely returned anything bought new that I did not intend to keep unless they were defective. Contemporary manufacturing processes have largely eliminated truly off-spec items; I am not suggesting that I have never encountered defective products, just not that often. I don't like to use the return policy as a mechanism for trying out something that I am not familiar; rental is a more appropriate route. I hate the thought that some merchants might pass the returned items as new to another customers.

On the other hand, I don't shy from second hand market. In this case, I have used return policy for testing the quality and I feel that it is totally legitimate. For example, my last 3 main desktop computers were all open box items at huge discounts; they are still running fine. I tried 3 used E-M1 (original) bodies before getting a "defect-free" one; the bad ones all had the well known rear dial issue.

Skeeterbytes said:

Limit myself to the Oly, er, OMD refurb page. That gear has been checked over to some level, plus with one exception the cameras show VERY few frames on the counter. Plus, 90-day warranty.

Have had just one exchange, back in my E-series days, so in sum have good confidence. The quality of the packing has varied, however.

I expect each reseller has to be considered individually WRT whether they do anything beyond a cursory look before offering each piece of gear. And since brick-and-morter is pretty much kaput in my area, previewing used gear in person is a thing of the past.

My $0.02,

Rick

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I would love to limit myself to the Olympus refurb page (outlet), but the prices are nearly the same as new. Unless there is a special I guess ...

motormatic said:

Weegee said:

Every time I come on this site I keep on hearing about all the gear "used" and returned. Don't you guys mind buying gear someone has used for a couple of weeks? The camera or lens could have been dropped. Would you trust a camera supplier to thorughly check out the returned item? Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

The returned gear, at least in the US, is supposed to be sold as either "open box', refurbished (by mfr or by seller). I have heard stories of people ordering gear advertised as new and getting a demo or open box unit instead. On the other hand, I have bought some gear advertised as open box that still had the seal on the box!

If the dealer ships out something that's not new by mistake, I'd expect them to make good on a replacement. In a brick and mortar store, it's easy enough to just check the seal on the box.

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I would avoid anything that says "Refurbished by seller" who might be a jewelry or pawn shop ... lol

MNE said:

I would love to limit myself to the Olympus refurb page (outlet), but the prices are nearly the same as new. Unless there is a special I guess ...

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That's what I generally do. Can't be in a hurry, and also be ready to jump before an item sells out. I've had things removed from my cart because I kept looking too long. It's a jungle, I tell you!

Off the top of my head, I have purchased three used cameras from KEH. I have purchased one refurbished camera from Nikon. I have purchased two used lenses from B&H and three from KEH.



All arrived here in great shape, working as they should. I DO trust these dealers; I have no reason not to.

Marie

That's why the packaging isn't sealed in plastic. Telephones are sealed. It simply goes back and gets sold to the next person who may be clueless as to performance.

MNE said:

Skeeterbytes said:

Limit myself to the Oly, er, OMD refurb page. That gear has been checked over to some level, plus with one exception the cameras show VERY few frames on the counter. Plus, 90-day warranty.

Have had just one exchange, back in my E-series days, so in sum have good confidence. The quality of the packing has varied, however.

I expect each reseller has to be considered individually WRT whether they do anything beyond a cursory look before offering each piece of gear. And since brick-and-morter is pretty much kaput in my area, previewing used gear in person is a thing of the past.

My $0.02,

Rick

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I would love to limit myself to the Olympus refurb page (outlet), but the prices are nearly the same as new. Unless there is a special I guess ...

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If you sign up at the website you will get emails when there are special outlet sales. New management sales are not are special as the old Olympus but can be worth the wait. I purchased three lenses and my current EM1.3 during these sales. Got my 40-150r for $59 and my EM1.3 for $1,199 over a year ago.