I’m asking which one to use because what I want is a consistency between what is printed, what is viewable on the Internet, and what is viewed on a monitor whether they are viewing it on Adobe RGB or SRGB gamut.I have a mind to edit in sRGB but save in Adobe RGB. Would that work? The point is I want prints and web pages and contest judges to see an image that is consistent.
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Adobe RGB or sRGB
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Those articles are correctly stating that sRGB and Adobe RGB are examples of well behaved colour spaces and so are referred to as "working colour spaces".
If a web browser, image editing or any other app is using sRGB, Adobe RGB, or Prophoto to display images then they are said to be the working colour space for that browser or app because it is a well behaved colour space as described in the articles which is what I have been saying all along.
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The lowest common denominator for web browsers is the sRGB working colour space and so obviously all images will be displayed by web browsers in sRGB.
But for images that were created in a larger colour space (Adobe RGB for example) for other reasons than only online display in browsers then whether the image creator converts the image to sRGB prior to uploading to the Internet or uploads the Adobe RGB image and lets the image viewer's browser convert the image to sRGB is a personal choice.
Maybe not anymore.
hmmmmmm.....I just came across this web page that tells me that Firefox and MS Edge can be set to either sRGB or Adobe RGB as their working colour space.
https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledge-center/knowledge/web-browsers-color-management.html
Even more reason now for me to stick with using Adobe RGB for my photos.
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ggbutcher
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I didn't make that assumption; indeed, just the opposite. My working assumption, based on what I'm reading elsewhere regarding browser configuration, is that the major browsers are making the sRGB assumption for us. If so, even folk who think gamut was a TV detective will have images in sRGB for their consumer display, thanks to their browser.And that's a HUGE erroneous assumption, believing that everyone is working on a desktop with upgradable displays.My assertion here would be that, if most folk looking at my images are doing so through web browsers, if the majority of those browsers are color-managing to a sRGB display, then supplying AdobeRGB-encoded images will be effectively down-converted to suit. if some folk have high-gamut displays and corresponding display profiles, my AdobeRGB images will stand a better chance of "cross-converting" (roughly equivalent gamuts?) and providing pleasing gamut than an attempted up-convert from sRGB.If you want to use colors outside the sRGB colorspace, then you should use a wider gamut colorspace. If those colors fall into the narrow range where they are outside sRGB, and still inside Adobe RGB, then you should use Adobe RGB.Someone earlier in the thread stated that all three major browsers now color-manage images by default, and default to sRGB if no other profile is specified by the user (If I got that wrong, whoever wrote it pls pipe up... ) I'm going to investigate that; if it proves true, I'll give serious consideration to my AdobeRGB thinking...How will you control how the browser fits the Adobe RGB image into a color managed sRGB display?Indeed. AdobeRGB in gamut terms is IMHO more of a rendition colorspace anymore, approximating high-gamut displays. If browsers will default-color-manage to sRGB anymore, I may be inclined to rethink my export tactics and export/embed to AdobeRGB. Browsers will then handle the down-gamut to sRGB, and the native image data will look better on unmanaged high-gamut displays. Unmanaged sRGB displays, well, too bad...
Edit: Oh, to answer your specific question, I won't have any control over the specifics of someone's color management configuration. No more than I have control over whether they use color management at all. It's just that at some point, high-gamut displays will reach some sort of critical mass that makes defaulting to them more appealing, and I'm thinking I might be better-served with switching my web-persistent exports now, rather than having an enduring significant presence encoded in sRGB...
This raises the question as to whether or not your images fall into this category. If not, then using Adobe RGB won't make your images look better in the future, and can only making them look worse on many monitors in the present.
Unmanaged situations are still a crap-shoot, probability of success depending on the proportion of high-gamut to sRGB situations. My surmise would be the probability of success would go up as more folk buy high-gamut monitors over time......
Oh, definitely should be tested.
Yeah, one of the things I'm sticking on are those who have high-gamut displays; browsers defaulting to sRGB doesn't help them. They would need to coax their OS into using an appropriate profile, or the OS would have to sense the device and support it accordingly.
I'm still thinking this through, hurts my head too. But, if we want to actually start using these nicer displays to full benefit, I think we need to start talking about this...
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Note that from the link you provided...Firefox and some other browsers are not set up for correct color management by default and require the user to enable it correctly. And it also requires that the monitor be calibrated to the correct color space as well....if what you see is what the person at the other end will see in terms of color. So if you are using Adobe RGB...they likelihood of the person you send the image to seeing the color the same as you is more unlikely vs using sRGB. Even then, using sRGB, it's very common for folks to see color different as folks rarely calibrate their monitors or set up their browsers properly. In your case...the best workflow might be to work in Adobe RGB and the convert to sRGB just prior to sending the image unless you no for sure the intended viewer has color management set up for Adobe RGB properly at their end...if "what you see is what they see" is important. Or just send them the file and make sure they are using a properly color managed viewer and their monitor is set up right.
I have the advantage of being able to showing the customer the images on my own system, or with prints I made, so I don't worry much
I'm sorry, but no. You never upload an AdobeRGB file under *any* belief that the browser will "convert". Not EVER. Because the vast majority of browsers the world over do NOT convert, let alone are color profile-friendly.
This is the difference between people who actually work in/with web designs and speak from the sidelines. Not a single web designer will ever, ever, post an extended gamut image and expect a web browser to "convert". It simply doesn't happen. Assuming a conversion is a sure-fire way to almost guarantee that every person viewing your site will receive a different experience - the exact opposite of proper web design.
sirhawkeye64
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On top of this, even if it COULD be done or the browser WAS able to convert, why would you want to let the browser handle color profiling? Why wouldn't want to explicitly tell the browser "this is the color profile of the image" and leave it at that? For programs that can perhaps make the conversion, I think it can leave the door open to some unwanted results possibly. When I export, I explicitly tell LR/PS what color profile to use, and if it's for screen ,it's set to sRGB.
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I use Chrome and so I downloaded Firefox out of curiosity to have a look and yes, colour management was off by default.
In any case, my Adobe RGB photos still look good in Firefox so I am not sure exactly what it is doing under the hood.
I still do not have any reason to not upload Adobe RGB photos in terms of the way browsers render the colours.
In any case, my Adobe RGB photos still look good in Firefox so I am not sure exactly what it is doing under the hood.
I still do not have any reason to not upload Adobe RGB photos in terms of the way browsers render the colours.
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May look good to you and may look off for someone else viewing them on there browser
That's true....if the only one viewing them is you on your system. May not matter what others see. Nothing wrong with that workflow
Yes that is true because I don't know how viewers have set up their screens.
But in any case they might also look good to someone else, at least judging by my images posted in forums here.
Of course, but I am not the only one viewing them.
Yes, to me it doesn't matter because I don't sell my photos online.
Thank you.
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Or their browsers.
Might...or might not
Nothing wrong with that. Personally, from experience only time it really can look ugly, is the few times red is the dominate color in the scene and it's close to saturation. Rest of the time I can usually live with the mismatch
Isn't that what I said when I said
"But in any case they might also look good..... "?
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Implied, I would think. How bad they might look to others will have a lot of associated variables. I can compare on my two monitors but not sure how to "capture" the comparison to show here. ideals?
Yes, all that is true.
But I think people need to keep in mind that even if they upload sRGB images they still might look off to some people because we have no way of knowing how their screens have been set up in regards to brightness, colour temp, contrast, the individual red green blue colours on their screens etc etc.
Like you say, we also don't know if viewers are using calibrated and profiled screens and whether they have colour management enabled in their browsers.
So, the way I see it, the bottom line is if you created the photo in a larger than sRGB colour space for other requirements then you need to decide whether you will downsize to sRGB before uploading the photo or if you are happy to let browsers do the conversion to sRGB. Browsers have so far done a good job in converting my Adobe RGB photos to sRGB.
How the photo will actually look on other people's screens is then effectively in the lap of the 'colour management gods'.
But I think people need to keep in mind that even if they upload sRGB images they still might look off to some people because we have no way of knowing how their screens have been set up in regards to brightness, colour temp, contrast, the individual red green blue colours on their screens etc etc.
Like you say, we also don't know if viewers are using calibrated and profiled screens and whether they have colour management enabled in their browsers.
So, the way I see it, the bottom line is if you created the photo in a larger than sRGB colour space for other requirements then you need to decide whether you will downsize to sRGB before uploading the photo or if you are happy to let browsers do the conversion to sRGB. Browsers have so far done a good job in converting my Adobe RGB photos to sRGB.
How the photo will actually look on other people's screens is then effectively in the lap of the 'colour management gods'.
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ggbutcher
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Hmm. I did same, and mine is enabled:
It's gfx.color_management.mode, 2=Color management applied only to tagged image. This is apparently the default setting as of version 3.5.
What I'm having a hard time determining is what is done if there is no display profile identified in both the gfx.color_management.display_profile setting or the OS color management service.
Yes, it looks like you are correct
I incorrectly assumed gfx.color_management.enabledv4 set to false meant colour management was turned off by default which wouldn't make sense when I think about it.
Why would a browser manufacturer implementing colour management in their browser have it turned off by default!!! :-O
So Firefox does have colour management turned on by default
Windows sets a default monitor profile (some kind of sRGB from memory) in the Windows Settings.
It's gfx.color_management.mode, 2=Color management applied only to tagged image. This is apparently the default setting as of version 3.5.
What I'm having a hard time determining is what is done if there is no display profile identified in both the gfx.color_management.display_profile setting or the OS color management service.
You can set one of the above as a default monitor profile in the absence of a customised monitor profile.
You can override the default Windows monitor profile with your customised profile after calibrating and profiling your monitor.
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ggbutcher
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Yeah, kinda weird. If firefox has V4 profile support, I don't know why they'd want to turn it off by default. I've seen threads here where folk complained their profile wasn't being used by some software, and it turned out the software didn't support the V4 version they were embedding in their image files. If the capability is in Firefox, it should just be on...Yes, it looks like you are correct
I incorrectly assumed gfx.color_management.enabledv4 set to false meant colour management was turned off by default which wouldn't make sense when I think about it.
Why would a browser manufacturer implementing colour management in their browser have it turned off by default!!! :-O
Ha, browsers are going to make me learn the OS mechanisms for color management. Note that what they do is to provide the profiles to apps, which then have to do their own conversion... In my hack software, I do it directly, I don't use the OS repository.So Firefox does have colour management turned on by default
Windows sets a default monitor profile (some kind of sRGB from memory) in the Windows Settings.
It's gfx.color_management.mode, 2=Color management applied only to tagged image. This is apparently the default setting as of version 3.5.
What I'm having a hard time determining is what is done if there is no display profile identified in both the gfx.color_management.display_profile setting or the OS color management service.
You can set one of the above as a default monitor profile in the absence of a customised monitor profile.
You can override the default Windows monitor profile with your customised profile after calibrating and profiling your monitor.
That is what normally happens.
For example - a browser converts an image to sRGB if required and then sends it to the screen and so the OS converts the colours in the browser's image to the screens colour space according to the screen's profile. The screens colour space will either be a Windows default colour space or a customised profile/colour space by the user.
Source: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/using/setting-color-management.html
(16 Mar 2022)
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And when color space is an issue (looks off) with regards to how the colors look... an sRGB workflow will generally not look as off to the masses as a Adobe RGB workflow
Surely that depends on the algorithm and rendering intent used by the user or the browser to convert an Adobe RGB photo to sRGB?
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