Mirrorless vs. DLSR and full frame/APS-C - CONSIDERING A CHANGE

david4546

Well-known member
Messages
222
Reaction score
76
Location
US
Has anyone moved from DLSR to ML and then decided the advantage wasn’t worth the trouble and expense?

Also, with the big discounts on FF bodies, I’m considering moving from my 7200 to a D750. Will I really see noticeable improvements in image quality? I’m mainly a landscape and portrait shooter. BTW, I already have two FF lenses, 85 1.8 and 70-300.
 
This question probably should have been posted in the Nikon DX forum. I anyone can help me move it, I’d welcome the guidance. My mistake.
 
Has anyone moved from DLSR to ML and then decided the advantage wasn’t worth the trouble and expense?

Also, with the big discounts on FF bodies, I’m considering moving from my 7200 to a D750. Will I really see noticeable improvements in image quality? I’m mainly a landscape and portrait shooter. BTW, I already have two FF lenses, 85 1.8 and 70-300.
May I suggest you not move to FX but rather add FX to your existing kit? By adding a format, you avoid 'creating a need' to replace your DX kit. (a D750 in crop mode gives you about a 10MP file... a big downgrade from the D7200's 24MP) Then you can pick and choose as you go what lenses you'd like to add or sell.

Will you see noticeable improvements with FX? If you pixel peep and have good lenses, yes. If you enlarge to or beyond typical poster size, yes. If you crop a lot, maybe not (unless you go to 36MP/45MP FX: D750 = 24MP) If you shoot at elevated ISOs, yes. Changes to DOF: yes.

About lenses, specifically which 85 & 70-300 FF lenses do you have? I'm assuming they are Nikon but, regardless, there have been many variations of each. If Nikon, they will be fully compatible with FX; they will only be fully compatible with Z FX by way of the FTZ adapter if they are AF-S or AF-P variants. If 3rd party, that's another matter and they may or may not be compatible.

As far as which body, you could, quite frankly, pick up a used D610 or D600 for not a lot of money and have both formats at your disposal. (one deficiency of the D6** bodies is the narrow AF spread; another is low-light AF performance... but you can't beat the price) For not much more, you could pick up a 36MP D800. (You'll hear some bemoan of a D800 AF problem that was fairly common to the D800 at launch to which I'd say not all bodies were affected and some/ many that were affected have probably been fixed. My body is good. The next moan will be that the D800E is better due to the lack of an AA filter: After post-processing (which most shooters will do to most files for anything other when than when SOOC jpegs are required), I think it would be difficult to pick out meaningful differences.) Of course, a D750 is a superb camera, too.

In FX mirrorless, the Z5 or Z6 (gen1) would be the FX value leaders. Nikon Z has some advantages for portraiture and landscape. Among them are avoiding the need to use AF-Fine Tune. The AF spread is across the whole frame. Eye-AF mode. The EVF offers WYSIWYG. IBIS.

Has anyone selling off DX to go to FX (DSLR or mirrorless) ever regretted it? Sure. For any system and/ or sensor format, the list of benefits and disadvantages is quite long and people sometimes leap to something newer without fully understanding the consequences. I shoot FX & DX, DSLR & Z.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the advice. The 85 is the Nikon G, the 70-300 is Nikon 4.5-5.6.

I’m not sure I’ll jump all the way to FF by going directly to ML. Are the lenses usable on the Z mount or is the performance degraded?
 
Thanks for the advice. The 85 is the Nikon G, the 70-300 is Nikon 4.5-5.6.

I’m not sure I’ll jump all the way to FF by going directly to ML. Are the lenses usable on the Z mount or is the performance degraded?
I'm still not sure which 70-300 that is. AF, AF-S or AF-P? Anyway, doesn't matter: You understand my point wrt the FTZ.

As for the performance of lenses on mirrorless, it is as good as it gets. With mirrorless, AF is accurate without the need for fine tuning. Period. AF speed with the FTZ is the same. Stabilization on bodies with IBIS: Imagine using your 85mm at 1/16 second handheld and getting a sharp image! It's a whole new realm of available light shooting. You can add to that AF points that go to all corners of the frame. Mirrorless has lots to offer. Are there some short-comings? Sure. Same as any piece of equipment.

Regardless, I hope you'll consider keeping the D7200 and adding an FX body (unless you only have those 2 lenses, I suppose).
 
Thanks for the advice. The 85 is the Nikon G, the 70-300 is Nikon 4.5-5.6.

I’m not sure I’ll jump all the way to FF by going directly to ML. Are the lenses usable on the Z mount or is the performance degraded?
I have a D7100 and several lenses. Had planned to add an FX body for a few years but hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Was thinking of getting a D750 but opted to go ML instead. When Nikon had their spring sales earlier this year there were some good discounts. I ended up getting a Z5 and the 14-30 f/4 S and 24-70 f/4 S Z mount lenses. I was tempted to go with a Z6 or Z6ii but I needed to replace my dead 10-20 DX lens, so picked the lenses first and then the body.

I use both the D7100 and Z5. So the Z cam was not a replacement, it is a complement to the DX body. The Z5 focuses better in most cases. No need to fine tune lenses for the most part (the capability is still there in the FX Z bodies) and the focusing system benefits from the newer generation of Expeed processors. Some people even see better performance with their F mount lenses on their Z bodies - possible due to the way the focusing system works. Also better high ISO performance and less noise with Z FX compared to DSLR DX. The Z mount lenses are better than their F mount equivalents, but the F mount lenses I own or have borrowed are no worse on the Z body - no degradation in image quality, at least within the DX frame area. On the FX body you will see areas outside the DX frame that you would not see on the DX body so you may get the impression that the lens IQ is degraded, but you are really just seeing a larger area of the image circle produced by the lens. So corners and edges may not look as good. But that is the case whether you put the lens on a DSLR or ML body.

Focus speed may be a tiny bit slower on some the AF-S lenses (you have to use an FTZ adapter) but I have the AF-P 70-300E f/4.5-5.6 F mount lens (FX). This lens is much better than the older AF-S 70-300G FX lens which I also owned and just got around to selling. The AF-P version, even with the FTZ, seems to focus a bit faster on my Z5 than on my D7100, and it focused faster that the older 70-300G version.

Since getting the Z5, my D7100 is mostly used for wildlife and Zoo stuff and some action, like surfers, where I get the equivalent narrower field of view compared the FX sensor (e.g. 300mm on DX equivalent to 450mm on FX) and the Z5 for some zoo stuff and everything else.

Your 85mm f/1.8 would still make a nice portrait lens on an FX Z body even though by most accounts the Z 85mm lens is an improvement.

So you can certainly get a Z FX body and wont lose anything regarding lens performance. You will have to learn the nuances of the Z focusing system through. But there are plenty of aids out there such as Thom Hogan's and Steve Perry's eBooks. I found the transition from D7100 to Z5 pretty straight forward except some button differences.

Replacing or adding to your D7200 with a D750 would even be a more seamless transition.

One thing I definitely like about the ML bodies is that the focus points pretty much cover the entire sensor area. If you go from D7200 with its 51pt focus system to a D750 or D610 you will notice that the focus points cover a smaller area of the frame compared to the DX body. Not really a bad thing. Just different. Less focus and recompose with the ML body though.

Also, with the FX Z bodies you get stabilization for non VR lenses. An with VR lenses the stabilization may be better. Shooting with my AF-P 70-300 at with focal length set for equivalent field of view (e.g. 200mm on DX body and 300mm on FX body), stabilization seems improved - we are getting at least one additional axis of stabilization.
 
Last edited:
I’m considering moving from my 7200 to a D750. Will I really see noticeable improvements in image quality?
Your D7200 is a fine box. I don't have one but I nearly did. Instead I acquired a lightly-used, secondhand, dealer-warrantied D750 as an additional camera, not replacement.

The motivation for the acquisition was coming back from a holiday in an old Spanish city (Sevilla) and finding that my holiday companions' photos at night were far better than I had been able to achieve with my much-loved D300. Your situation is rather different in that the D7200 is already not bad at all in low light situations.

The D750 can almost see in the dark. Here is the image I tend to show in response to this kind of question:

Dinner in 15th century , oak-beamed, English pub
Dinner in 15th century , oak-beamed, English pub

That one candle was the ONLY illumination.

As you are into landscapes, here is a recent one of a local railway station at night:

108d424f343345ecb725a1f5ccab1ca1.jpg

In neither case did I use any noise-reduction software.

However, I kept my D300. Mainly for wildlife purposes. Providing the light is good it still does an excellent job:

Flying Peregrine D300 + Nik 300/F4
Flying Peregrine D300 + Nik 300/F4

All my lenses bar one (16-85) are FX.

Mirrorless? No, I'm not interested. Way too expensive for me. I do have a Fuji X100V which has no mirror. That's good enough.
 
I agree with the benefits of mirrorless but the expense of switching full bore is too much for me, besides I like DSLRs. I did venture and bought a Sony A7II with only the kit lens, and that's going to be it. I use it mainly with lens collection and it does a fine job even with AF.

I wanted a FF DSLR for my Nikkor lenses and got a D700, I am very happy with it even at 12MP, it compliments my DX D7100. For my AF Canon lenses I use my A7II.
 
I agree with the benefits of mirrorless but the expense of switching full bore is too much for me, besides I like DSLRs.
It sounds like we both sing from the same hymnsheet!

Here in DPR I have seen some great images from Z series cameras but then I have also seen great images from lots of cameras.

Indeed, I think my own images from a humble D70 (2004 vintage) are not that shabby either:

D70 + Sigma 105mm; female European Robin (2006)
D70 + Sigma 105mm; female European Robin (2006)

I suppose were money no object or I were earning a good income from photography that would be a different matter.

I also like DSLRs.
 
Last edited:
Those lenses will work great with either system. Mirrorless isn't really a whole lot different than a DSLR in that photography is photography. Shutter speed, ISO, aperture, compose, focus, click. (did I miss much? ;-) ) The camera body is there merely to help the process along which is why I mentioned 3 or 4 DSLRs as well as mirrorless in my earlier reply.
 
Every time I see that first image I get a little thirst and a little hungry.

D750, besides being an excellent camera in its own right is a near perfect FX DSLR compliment or replacement to the D7200 or D7100. Essentially same body and buttons/menus. Transition is seamless.

When I went Z path for FX I only had one FX lens so I was going to have to buy glass anyway - and I came into some unexpected funds.

In US excellent or better condition D750 bodies run about USD$850-$1100, which I think is a pretty good value. It does seem that the used prices have crept up a bit with the shortage of new bodies, but I have not data to show that.
 
Has anyone moved from DLSR to ML and then decided the advantage wasn’t worth the trouble and expense?
I never moved. I bought a little Sony NEX-5, then over many years, upgraded and expanded until I had several lenses. The lens lineup never matched what I have with my D7500. And I never enjoyed using the camera all that much. All I really like was how small the body was and how small it could be with one or two select lenses!

Now I have a Fuji X-S10 (with only one lens) and it's nice and small - in between a p&s and my D7500/16-80. It's fun and has some good features, but I still wouldn't replace my D7500 with it.
Also, with the big discounts on FF bodies, I’m considering moving from my 7200 to a D750. Will I really see noticeable improvements in image quality?
Basically, the same question applies. Has anyone moved from APS-C to FF and then decided it wasn't worth the trouble and expense ? (I'm guessing the answer is yes).
I’m mainly a landscape and portrait shooter. BTW, I already have two FF lenses, 85 1.8 and 70-300.
I love the 85/1.8 on APS-C. I've been using an 85 on APS-C since my first DSLR and if I ever moved to FF, I'd proably want a 105 or 135 to take its place. I have other FF lenses, but would run into the same problem. My 70-200 is suddenly "only" a 70-200 (unless I crop). My 100-400 ... "only" a 100-400 :) The thing is, I bought them for what they can do on APS-C - I've tuned my lens lineup over many years and on another format, I'd want to have something similar. That would suggest a 45MP body I could crop with or a whole new set of lenses.

- Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Every time I see that first image I get a little thirst and a little hungry.

D750, besides being an excellent camera in its own right is a near perfect FX DSLR compliment or replacement to the D7200 or D7100. E
Sadly, that pub, The Lamb at Wartling, has fallen victim to Covid - not able to do enough business to sustain itself commercially but is open, I think, as a country hotel. I hope one day it will come back up. The food was just a tad expensive (for me) but well worth it for special occasions.

I guess I show the candle picture a bit too often but it does illustrate the point nicely. I'll have to try to find another one. How about this one - twice the illumination (two candles!).

 D750; Nik 28-105mm ~ en plein air dinner with our Belgian neighbours; ISO - can't remember ± 3200?
D750; Nik 28-105mm ~ en plein air dinner with our Belgian neighbours; ISO - can't remember ± 3200?

:-)
 
Well, that one works two (intentional misspelling :-) )

It's 1500 local time here and now have an urge to uncork a bottle of somthing, pour a bit, and sit under a tree and watch the birds in my yard.

Nice demonstration again that older cameras are still very good (they don't get worse over time) and produce very nice results.

As to the OP's original question, I can't address that directly since I am pleased with my Z kit, but I am also pleased with by F mount kit and will have both for the foreseeable future. I don't know anyone personally who transitioned exclusively to mirrorless. Everyone I know who uses Nikon or Canon gear and has acquired some mirrorless kit has retained some of their DSLR gear. And several have picked up an extra DSLR body or two.
 
Has anyone moved from DLSR to ML and then decided the advantage wasn’t worth the trouble and expense?

Also, with the big discounts on FF bodies, I’m considering moving from my 7200 to a D750. Will I really see noticeable improvements in image quality? I’m mainly a landscape and portrait shooter. BTW, I already have two FF lenses, 85 1.8 and 70-300.
I shoot mostly landscapes and I changed my aps-c setup (D7500) with Sony mirrorless few years ago.

So far the change has been great. I have shaved 500g on my main setup (body + standard 2.8 zoom) while gaining 20mm on the long end which is great for hiking.

For portraits eye af is a no brainer. It's just so damn convenient to just frame and click. No focus points to move, no recomposing, no grabbing the eye with 3d tracking. It's a much better experience, and you get on average better results with more ease.

The zebra / histogram display and focus peaking are great tools for landscape photography, mo more guessing and exposure trial and error.

Lenses are likely to be more modern and smaller aswell. My Samyang 12 f2 costed around 250 and it's super sharp and super compact.

Except a few lenses though, everything is definately more expensive in mirrorless, even though there is an improvement in quality (say the recent Z 18-140 vs the older dslr ones are night and day), sometimes there is not.

Even though I have one of the best landscape cameras at my disposal (D810) I prefer to carry around and shoot the smaller mirrorless gear, for the same weight I can bring two extra lenses with the 17-70 (12 and 70-350), I have always prefered APS-C when hiking/traveling, that's why the D5500 then D7500 in the past.

The question is about APS-C mirrorless or FF. All manufacturers (first and third party) are focused on FF, so it will depend on what you are expecting later on from the system/format you will chose.

Staying DSLR means buying used most of the time, I can see this as a very viable strategy if final image quality vs cost is the only consideration, for all other things I find overall much more enjoyable to shoot mirrorless.

It's up to you, honestly I don't think there's anything to lose in the change, there's few things to gain. Well actually you lose money that's for sure... :-D
 
Last edited:
I'd frame (pardon the pun...) the issue differently. To me it is not moving, but complementing. Different tools for different strokes. Even if you engage mostly in the kind of photography generally tied to FF (portraits and landscape, for example), I bet that you'd run in a situation where you thought "darn, I wish I still had my DX...".

I have a D90 and a D500, one DX lens and two FF lenses. My recently acquired D500 is most likely going to be my last DSLR, but I am not going to sell neither the D90 nor the D500 when I add a FF mirrorless some time in the future.

For action photography I will keep using the D500 with the D90 as a backup, for the rest and extreme low light photography whatever future FF MLS I will get.

As always, YMMV.
 
I went from a D70 to 90 to 7100 to7500

I killed my travel camera and bought a Z50 kit.

Sold the D90 and 7100 to my son, who then bought a D750.

Lately both of us are shooting mostly birds birds and animals.

I use the Z50 with a sigma 100-400.

He uses my Z7500 with a sigma 150-600.

The 70-300P works fabulously on the Z50 but the extra reach and bird tracking on the sigma is amazing. I was going to get the Nikon 100-400 but when I found a used sigma for 425 I pulled the trigger.

Its been months since my son used his D750.

I like smaller and lighter and extra reach.

If they come out with a d500 equivalent in mirrorless we will both buy it.
 
Been in a similar position as you, now I own a Z6 after a D7500 which I also have and use quite often. Better quality with Z6 is achievable only with :

- low light and high ISO, the Z6 has insanely good high ISO qualities/ see the pic below/

-the fantastic Z mount lenses that are super sharp and quite expensive

If you want an upgrade of quality for landscape, think of a high Mp body like the Z7 and good lenses, just going FF will not change anything in you results except that you will be calm with your inner voice that you did it :)





fb14e9d89b3340908f5bd4a46006a8eb.jpg

ISO 16 000 , that's for me the great advantage of Z6. Have in mind D750 is not in par with Z6/Z6ii sensor for high ISO capabilities.
 
I have no desire (or money) to change to mirrorless - but your sample photograph of the bird (pelican?) landing is very good indeed. Bravo!
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top