Any Practical And Financially Viable Reason To Do Film Photography?

Sourov

Forum Enthusiast
Messages
382
Reaction score
287
Location
Saint Leu, RE
If you look at the music industry, Vinyl never disappeared. Music video did kill the Radio Stars. Even today many artists do release a vinyl version of their digital release.

I love Film Photography. It's A pure Joy. It reminds me that, even though we complain about almost every digital camera in the market, it's just incredible that how much we can simply achieve we a simple cheap Digital Camera .

Also, the process of film is wonderful. It makes me feel like a creator of handmade artisanal products. Although, in my case, it's a hybrid photography. Because, I don't print with enlargers in the Darkroom. I scan.

So, it's hybrid.

In brief, the limitations of Film Photography, are the fun and enjoyable bit of a film photography. It's like a Blind Date. You never know. Sometimes I genuinely love the outcome. Sometimes, I learn to love it.

So, in the end, it's all hobby. If there was money involved, I would definitely use Digital.

I am no Nick Carver. He or very few folks like him do make money on Film Photography courses or selling Prints made on film. Other than that, what digital can not do that film can?

Good News that, film is coming back . In it never stopped really. But there are more and more people shoot film. Me including.

But, in the professional world, is it viable? Or it's just for pure 'Art' and for Hobby? Is film equivalent to Vinyl or Cassette?

--
Sourov Deb
 
Last edited:
No, the title is pretty specific with whether or not there's ANY practical AND financially viable reason to use film. Basically across the spectrum that answer is an emphatic "no".
Have you been reading the replies? For a lot of us, film is more cost-effective than digital, particularly if you're talking about replacing your camera more than once every 5-6 years.
"A lot of us" isn't indicative of most. Most photographers do not, will not, and cannot find a practical and or financially compelling reason to shoot film. If you're a hobbyist that doesn't shoot much, then you're an outlier and it should go without saying that someone shooting only twenty (20) 4x5 sheets per year isn't what I'm talking about. However if you're a hobbyist that shoots as much film as a hobbyist typically shoots digital frames, then that usually doesn't make fiscal sense especially if you're using 4x5 or larger film sheets.

A 5-6 year camera replacement is (generally speaking) absolutely ridiculous, but that's another thread.
Remember, to get the best image quality in digital, you need a late-model camera.
Not to my eyes. I'm betting that most people can't tell or would struggle to tell the difference between an 8x10 print (before cropping) from a Canon 5D2 compared to the same print size file from a 5D3. Same image quality but better camera. The Canon 5d2 gave virtually the same image quality as the 5D3 without getting technical about it.

Under typical circumstances you're not going to get a better image quality with a newer camera within a 5-6 year iteration, rather simply more latitude/options related to capturing the moment. You see a image quality difference between the Nikon D4 and D5 worth mentioning? No. Do you see a difference in image quality between the long-in-the-tooth Hasselblad 50c compared to the newer 1XD? No. Nikon D5 and D6? No.. Canon 1DXii vs 1DXiii? No.
To get the best image quality in a given size of film, you simply buy the right film.
To get the same image quality of a Fuji GFX 100S, you basically need 4x5 film, which is roughly $225 per pack (100 sheets). 8x10? That's roughly $200 per 10 sheets.
No, you don't need 4x5 at all, drum scanned film medium format can be printed to any size you'd ever need for print. That being said, the reason for using medium format is for bigger prints AND tonality etc. The bigger the surface area the more light you're capturing and in turn, the better quality you get. Most people don't print to huge sizes, so it's the tonality and other qualities that they shoot medium format for, and medium format film is more than good enough to satisfy that demand.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/24748-REG/Ilford_1629181_HP5_Plus_4x5_100.html

So for every 500 photos, you've paid a pre-tax of $1,125, before scanning or dealing with your local service bureau... and that's 4x5.... try shooting at least 20 sheets of 8x10 monthly.. that's over $400 monthly - in just film alone you've purchased a Fuji GFX 100s after shooting (very lightly) for 18 months. The most obvious factor that keeps most people from shooting the better, and larger films is cost.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...MIhsyInOyc9gIVfAytBh3nUgJCEAQYBCABEgJB2PD_BwE
This is a most fallacious argument, you do not need 4x5 or 8x10, that's just a personal choice, as per my comments above, and you certainly don't shoot hundreds of sheets a month. You can shoot medium format film cheaply once you have the camera and lenses, which can also be very cheap. If you home develop you can save time and cost as well. The main reason people avoid film is the time, inconvenience, and extra effort required, it's very easy to make it a cost effective endeavour if you want to, over time, you just don't shoot the volume you would on digital.
For pros? Maybe not. For hobbyists? Absolutely.

Aaron
Most people shooting film as much as a person would typically shoot a comparable digital body, can't usually make a compelling case for the cost of film being more "practical" and "financially viable".. most of us know that.
People who shoot film these days accept the rigour it requires, and many will even cite that as a reason for doing it, it's more challenging, that's part of the fun, shooting digital can be a soulless experience in comparison. I shoot both, depending on conditions and how the mood takes me. Digital can be equally expensive when you factor in software, computing requirements etc etc, but can also be done very cheaply with some effort.

Ultimately convenience wins for most people, who are inherently lazy. They'd rather be sat in front of a TV being brainwashed, than learning a craft such as Darkroom printing. Shooting film doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive, and for some, in the long term it can be cheaper, but it requires discipline and effort, that's the bit most people don't like.
 
Teila Day wrote:e more

...
Remember, to get the best image quality in digital, you need a late-model camera.
Not to my eyes. I'm betting that most people can't tell or would struggle to tell the difference between an 8x10 print (before cropping) from a Canon 5D2 compared to the same print size file from a 5D3. Same image quality but better camera. The Canon 5d2 gave virtually the same image quality as the 5D3 without getting technical about it.
9 megapixels is enough for a 8x10 print at 300 ppi. 14 megapixels is enough for a 8x10 print at 360 ppi. For those shooting in reasonable conditions, you certainly don't need the latest model digital camera.

The 18 megapixel Canon EOS 7D (introduced in 2009) is still able to produce great images.

Newer model cameras have more video features, more convenience features, and make it easier to capture images in more challenging situations.

For the most part digital shooters don't need to be constantly updating to the latest and greatest camera. They might update because a newer camera has features that makes their job easier, or because shooting with the latest gear is part of their marketing spiel.

Frequent camera upgrades is not something new to digital. The same pressure existed when I was shooting film. Newer cameras had better autofocus, better metering, better weatherproofing, etc. For film shooters the pressure to constantly upgrade is gone because they stopped making newer and better film cameras.

Let's be honest, it can be fun to have new and better toys. It can be a downer when others have better toys than you do.
 
I had a comparable experience. Just for kicks, I hung a film version of an image next to the digital version. The film version of the same image was a B&W print I wet printed in my darkroom and I billed it as such. It sold for several times the cost of the digital version. People were in awe of an analog film print that was hand-made in the darkroom - it caused quite the conversation and spoke volumes about what people value.

Last year I came across a storefront photographic gallery here in my small resort town that is 100% film - the guy is making bank.

Mike
This a point I frequently make, that usually goes unchallenged. Film photos have provenance, they are effectively hand made images. In much the same way new generations are wowed by the analogue process of vinyl records, they appreciate the effort and skill required to produce quality film photos. The negative you hold is a physical thing that was present at the place where the photograph was taken, we don't have the same association with a digital file.
 
For the most part digital shooters don't need to be constantly updating to the latest and greatest camera. They might update because a newer camera has features that makes their job easier, or because shooting with the latest gear is part of their marketing spiel.
Of course for the *manufacturers* digital shooters have absolutely to be upgrading constantly to the latest version, because otherwise they’ve nothing to sell. You can almost see this in reverse with Kodak Instamatic - the early Kodak models were sophisticated, high quality cameras (Instamatic 500, Instamatic Reflex etc), the later models were very simple box cameras (X-15 etc) because Kodak made money on the blades (film) rather than the razors (cameras). Now the digital camera is the blade ….
Frequent camera upgrades is not something new to digital. The same pressure existed when I was shooting film. Newer cameras had better autofocus, better metering, better weatherproofing, etc. For film shooters the pressure to constantly upgrade is gone because they stopped making newer and better film cameras.

Let's be honest, it can be fun to have new and better toys. It can be a downer when others have better toys than you do.
 
I had a comparable experience. Just for kicks, I hung a film version of an image next to the digital version. The film version of the same image was a B&W print I wet printed in my darkroom and I billed it as such. It sold for several times the cost of the digital version. People were in awe of an analog film print that was hand-made in the darkroom - it caused quite the conversation and spoke volumes about what people value.

Last year I came across a storefront photographic gallery here in my small resort town that is 100% film - the guy is making bank.

Mike
This a point I frequently make, that usually goes unchallenged. Film photos have provenance, they are effectively hand made images. In much the same way new generations are wowed by the analogue process of vinyl records, they appreciate the effort and skill required to produce quality film photos. The negative you hold is a physical thing that was present at the place where the photograph was taken, we don't have the same association with a digital file.
If your business is art, then film can play a large roll in your marketing. You might try increasing the sales price of a print, by destroying the negative.

In the art world, the story surrounding a piece can play a huge roll in the selling price for the piece.

On the other hand, with commercial photography, the important issue is usually the result, not how you got there.
 
No. Film is dead. Film is only now for the "craft" element of photography. If people enjoy that fine, but for the quality of final images it is dead.
Thank goodness it is, no more stinky chemicals, no more standing over a sink, no more standing at an enlarger. Hurrah for digital. No more wondering if one has caught the right moment.



 Irises transformed
Irises transformed

Peter Del

--
Gallery: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8804053911
 
No. Film is dead. Film is only now for the "craft" element of photography. If people enjoy that fine, but for the quality of final images it is dead.
Thank goodness it is, no more stinky chemicals, no more standing over a sink, no more standing at an enlarger. Hurrah for digital. No more wondering if one has caught the right moment.

Irises transformed
Irises transformed

Peter Del

One person's bane is another person's joy. Bring on the sweet smell of fixer for me! My darkroom and my enlarger is my happy place, second only to capturing great images. Long live film and the darkroom! Film isn't going away and it doesn't have to be an either-or choice between film and digital. Too bad some inaccurately think that way.



Mike

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.
 
It's like owning a motorcycle.

Sunny day, wind on the face, carving down a canyon... great fun.

But there are very few people who exclusively ride motorcycles. For most it is a sunny day fun ride, but there's still a car or truck in the garage for utility.

Personally, I have little interest in film. But if I had a garage to safely store a motorcycle, I would have one in a heartbeat.

There is no practical or financial justification, but if you enjoy it, do it.
 
One point of view is that creativity comes from constraints. Jon Stewart (formerly of The Daily Show) said that give him the freedom to do anything and he was lost. Give him constraints, and the creative juices flow.
I see digital as having constraints too, just different ones.

If the bar for what is possible is raised, the level of acceptability is also raised. I am a lot more demanding about the quality of the work I produce than I ever was with film because I make much larger prints.

In terms of creativity, the problem is the same as it ever was. Creating something that has an immediate impact and draw to a potential viewer. Again, in an era where snapshots are ubiquitous, this too is a lot more challenging.
 
One point of view is that creativity comes from constraints. Jon Stewart (formerly of The Daily Show) said that give him the freedom to do anything and he was lost. Give him constraints, and the creative juices flow.
I see digital as having constraints too, just different ones.

If the bar for what is possible is raised, the level of acceptability is also raised. I am a lot more demanding about the quality of the work I produce than I ever was with film because I make much larger prints.
When I started work all our reports were written in longhand and typed by a typing pool. You’d do a check of the report and send it back for corrections by the pool. It would then go for technical check and corrections would be made (by the pool) and finally approval (with possibly some more changes). So at most there were four edits because it was difficult to do so.

Now everyone uses word processors and make hundreds of edits changing the report, getting the wording “just so” (then changing it back :-) ). The same formal steps (technical check and approval) are still there, but because it’s so easy all the words are “polished” until they shine (or so people like to think :-) ).

So are the reports “technically” better ? Yes, because they’re typeset and laser printed, rather than run off on a typewriter, plus they’re searchable as PDFs and can be emailed. But are they better in terms of what they say, and their authoritativeness ? Absolutely not, because *that has nothing to do with technology*, that is to do with the checking and approval process and the skills and knowledge of the people doing it.

The same is true for photographs - the “quality”, that is the ability to produce an emotional response in the viewer, is completely independent of any “technical” quality in the image.
In terms of creativity, the problem is the same as it ever was. Creating something that has an immediate impact and draw to a potential viewer. Again, in an era where snapshots are ubiquitous, this too is a lot more challenging.
 
Teila Day wrote:e more

...
Remember, to get the best image quality in digital, you need a late-model camera.
Not to my eyes. I'm betting that most people can't tell or would struggle to tell the difference between an 8x10 print (before cropping) from a Canon 5D2 compared to the same print size file from a 5D3. Same image quality but better camera. The Canon 5d2 gave virtually the same image quality as the 5D3 without getting technical about it.
9 megapixels is enough for a 8x10 print at 300 ppi. 14 megapixels is enough for a 8x10 print at 360 ppi. For those shooting in reasonable conditions, you certainly don't need the latest model digital camera.
Correct - where the additional pixels make a practical difference is (for example) shooting macro, then cropping, which one can discern a difference under that condition even when printing 8x10.
The 18 megapixel Canon EOS 7D (introduced in 2009) is still able to produce great images.
Yes.
Newer model cameras have more video features, more convenience features, and make it easier to capture images in more challenging situations.
Exactly.

Teila: "Under typical circumstances you're not going to get a better image quality with a newer camera within a 5-6 year iteration, rather simply more latitude/options related to capturing the moment."
For the most part digital shooters don't need to be constantly updating to the latest and greatest camera. They might update because a newer camera has features that makes their job easier, or because shooting with the latest gear is part of their marketing spiel.

Frequent camera upgrades is not something new to digital. The same pressure existed when I was shooting film. Newer cameras had better autofocus, better metering, better weatherproofing, etc. For film shooters the pressure to constantly upgrade is gone because they stopped making newer and better film cameras.
Which makes perfect and practical sense. What doesn't make sense is someone asserting that one has to upgrade 5-6 years to maintain the highest image quality.
"Remember, to get the best image quality in digital, you need a late-model camera."
Let's be honest, it can be fun to have new and better toys. It can be a downer when others have better toys than you do.
Shooting is fun, mostly a means to an end for me however new products especially those that enhance the experience in some way are indeed nice!

Good post.
 
Last edited:
Most people shooting film as much as a person would typically shoot a comparable digital body, can't usually make a compelling case for the cost of film being more "practical" and "financially viable".. most of us know that.
I find your notion of “comparable” strange - to me a comparable body to a film SLR is a digital SLR or MILC, since they are used for the same purpose (no-one [almost] takes a 10x8 to a party) but that’s by the by
Specifically what comparison did you find strange? .. and what in my post is untrue?

I compared the image quality of the Fuji GFX 100S to 4x5 film. Is that a "strange" comparison since instead of lugging a 4x5 to shoot landscapes and large portraits many former large and medium format film shooters are now shooting digital? Is that strange to you?

Of course no one is taking an 8x10 (or 4x5) to parties anymore - Obviously you have forgotten or aren't old enough to remember when it wasn't at all strange to see people at large gatherings photographed using 4x5 and when it was not odd to see 8x10 used for wedding/family formals, large corporate photos, etc..

People did use medium format regularly and though many people wanted to, they refrained from lugging 4x5 or larger around with them on vacation to national parks, etc.. today, you can (and is why people do) take a medium format body like the GFX 100s or Hasselblad X1D with you in a small bag.. without having to deal with different speed films, changing film, storing film. Today you can shoot 1,000 raw shots on a single card if you wanted (though not recommended).

People didn't do certain things decades ago because they couldn't or it was horribly impractical. Today, many of those things are not impractical, but very easy in comparison.
As regards cost , in 2022 I regard all (non commercial) photography other than using a phone a luxury, and therefore arguments over the costs of the same are like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Everyone has an opinion - I respect that. I print iPhone shots on a Canon 4100 printer and while phones have come a long way - they don't close to using a proper camera if you're not into doing a lot of post-work gymnastics.
In the end it’s either a hobby, in which case it has an associated cost that you’re happy with, or a business in which case film or digital is just part of the cost of doing business.
Yes - kinda like either your alive or dead since there really isn't an in-between.

Question: Do you think more people would shoot considerably more 4x5 and 8x10 if the good films cost $0.50 and $1 per sheet? What about medium format film - do you think a lot of the younger crowd would shoot far more than they currently do if film and film processing costs were negligible to their budget?

--
Teila K. Day
http://teiladay.com
 
Last edited:
Most people shooting film as much as a person would typically shoot a comparable digital body, can't usually make a compelling case for the cost of film being more "practical" and "financially viable".. most of us know that.
I find your notion of “comparable” strange - to me a comparable body to a film SLR is a digital SLR or MILC, since they are used for the same purpose (no-one [almost] takes a 10x8 to a party) but that’s by the by
Specifically what comparison did you find strange? .. and what in my post is untrue?
I’ve explained that already - I regard a 35mm SLR to be comparable to a DSLR or similar mirrorless, since they are used for the same purpose.
I compared the image quality of the Fuji GFX 100S to 4x5 film. Is that a "strange" comparison since instead of lugging a 4x5 to shoot landscapes and large portraits many former large and medium format film shooters are now shooting digital? Is that strange to you?

Of course no one is taking an 8x10 (or 4x5) to parties anymore - Obviously you have forgotten or aren't old enough to remember when it wasn't at all strange to see people at large gatherings photographed using 4x5 and when it was not odd to see 8x10 used for wedding/family formals, large corporate photos, etc..
Thats not what I meant by “taking a 10x8 to parties” - I mean in the same way one would take a Mju
People did use medium format regularly and though many people wanted to, they refrained from lugging 4x5 or larger around with them on vacation to national parks, etc.. today, you can (and is why people do) take a medium format body like the GFX 100s or Hasselblad X1D with you in a small bag.. without having to deal with different speed films, changing film, storing film. Today you can shoot 1,000 raw shots on a single card if you wanted (though not recommended).

People didn't do certain things decades ago because they couldn't or it was horribly impractical. Today, many of those things are not impractical, but very easy in comparison.
As regards cost , in 2022 I regard all (non commercial) photography other than using a phone a luxury, and therefore arguments over the costs of the same are like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Everyone has an opinion - I respect that. I print iPhone shots on a Canon 4100 printer and while phones have come a long way - they don't close to using a proper camera if you're not into doing a lot of post-work gymnastics.
In the end it’s either a hobby, in which case it has an associated cost that you’re happy with, or a business in which case film or digital is just part of the cost of doing business.
Yes - kinda like either your alive or dead since there really isn't an in-between.
I don’t understand the comparison or what you’re trying to say ?
Question: Do you think more people would shoot considerably more 4x5 and 8x10 if the good films cost $0.50 and $1 per sheet? What about medium format film - do you think a lot of the younger crowd would shoot far more than they currently do if film and film processing costs were negligible to their budget?
I’ve no idea what other people would do - I shoot mostly 35mm or smaller (APS, 110, Minox etc)
 
Last edited:
If you look at the music industry, Vinyl never disappeared. Music video did kill the Radio Stars. Even today many artists do release a vinyl version of their digital release.

I love Film Photography. It's A pure Joy. It reminds me that, even though we complain about almost every digital camera in the market, it's just incredible that how much we can simply achieve we a simple cheap Digital Camera .

Also, the process of film is wonderful. It makes me feel like a creator of handmade artisanal products. Although, in my case, it's a hybrid photography. Because, I don't print with enlargers in the Darkroom. I scan.

So, it's hybrid.

In brief, the limitations of Film Photography, are the fun and enjoyable bit of a film photography. It's like a Blind Date. You never know. Sometimes I genuinely love the outcome. Sometimes, I learn to love it.

So, in the end, it's all hobby. If there was money involved, I would definitely use Digital.

I am no Nick Carver. He or very few folks like him do make money on Film Photography courses or selling Prints made on film. Other than that, what digital can not do that film can?

Good News that, film is coming back . In it never stopped really. But there are more and more people shoot film. Me including.

But, in the professional world, is it viable? Or it's just for pure 'Art' and for Hobby? Is film equivalent to Vinyl or Cassette?
Financially, no I can't think of any real reason to shoot film. Unless you have boatloads of film sitting around waiting to be used, and you have enough to last you several years, then maybe it would make financial sense over buying a digital camera (if you didn't own one) but I suspect this scenario is not very common.

Practical, yes, especially if you wanted to use it as a way of learning photography and the development process, along with other aspects of photography. I mean I picked up some Ektar 100 film for my 35mm Olympus a few months back and took it on a trip to Yellowstone. Granted, I had a ML camera that could beat that Olympus to death in imaging abilities (even with the best films) but part of it was the experience of shooting with film. The value of this of course is going to be up to the photographer, but I know some people who still only shoot film, even though it's not cheaper (by any means) than digital, but they do it for the fun of it, which I think is the most important aspect of photography in general. It should be fun, whatever medium/format you use.

I know a local school (college) that for their "Photography 102" class (or whatever, their second photography class) they require students to shoot film. They cannot use digital cameras at all during the course.

--
(NOTE: If I don't reply to a direct comment in the forums, it's likely I unsubscribed from the thread.)
 
Last edited:
To get the best image quality in a given size of film, you simply buy the right film.
To get the same image quality of a Fuji GFX 100S, you basically need 4x5 film, which is roughly $225 per pack (100 sheets). 8x10? That's roughly $200 per 10 sheets.
No, you don't need 4x5 at all, drum scanned film medium format can be printed to any size you'd ever need for print.
If you wan to dip a toe in the past and drum scan, ok, let's go there - So you're saying a drum scanned print from the 6x7 is going to give me the same large detail as a drum scanned print from a 4x5 or 8x10?
That being said, the reason for using medium format is for bigger prints AND tonality etc. The bigger the surface area the more light you're capturing and in turn, the better quality you get.

Most people don't print to huge sizes, so it's the tonality and other qualities that they shoot medium format for, and medium format film is more than good enough to satisfy that demand.
I shoot medium format mainly - I'm aware of the practical advantages however that's not what the thread is about. The thread is about Practical AND financially viable reasons to shoot film.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/24748-REG/Ilford_1629181_HP5_Plus_4x5_100.html

So for every 500 photos, you've paid a pre-tax of $1,125, before scanning or dealing with your local service bureau... and that's 4x5.... try shooting at least 20 sheets of 8x10 monthly.. that's over $400 monthly - in just film alone you've purchased a Fuji GFX 100s after shooting (very lightly) for 18 months. The most obvious factor that keeps most people from shooting the better, and larger films is cost.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...MIhsyInOyc9gIVfAytBh3nUgJCEAQYBCABEgJB2PD_BwE
This is a most fallacious argument, you do not need 4x5 or 8x10, that's just a personal choice, as per my comments above, and you certainly don't shoot hundreds of sheets a month.
By definition there isn't anything fallacious about my true and reasonable statement. There isn't an argument to be made of the simple math. It's not unreasonable for a hobbyist to shoot 500 shots per annum; 42 shots per month. It's definitely not unreasonable for a hobbyist to shoot 20 sheets monthly of 8x10. Some shoot more/less, but there's nothing unreasonable about my statement or inaccurate about my math.

Teila: "The most obvious factor that keeps most people from shooting the better, and larger films is cost." Do you really want to refute that statement?
You can shoot medium format film cheaply once you have the camera and lenses, which can also be very cheap. If you home develop you can save time and cost as well.
Ok, now we're getting ridiculous. The OP isn't talking about a sliver of the film using demographic that is (1) willing to allot space, and buy chemicals or scanner to process their own film (2) who actually want to process their own film. The OP is talking overall whether or not film is practical (most probably don't find it practical AND financially viable) to process film in their house (which they probably rent) or an apartment.
The main reason people avoid film is the time, inconvenience, and extra effort required, it's very easy to make it a cost effective endeavour if you want to, over time, you just don't shoot the volume you would on digital.
.... My point exactly. I can walk to all of my location shoots to safe fuel (especially in California) but it would cost me more time, inconvenience, and extra effort.... (here it comes) ... which makes it -- not practical --. The OP specifically asks about Practical AND Financially viable reasons to shoot film.
For pros? Maybe not. For hobbyists? Absolutely.

Aaron
Most people shooting film as much as a person would typically shoot a comparable digital body, can't usually make a compelling case for the cost of film being more "practical" and "financially viable".. most of us know that.
People who shoot film these days accept the rigour it requires, and many will even cite that as a reason for doing it, it's more challenging, that's part of the fun, shooting digital can be a soulless experience in comparison. I shoot both, depending on conditions and how the mood takes me.
Which isn't relevant to the OP's question.
Digital can be equally expensive when you factor in software, computing requirements etc etc, but can also be done very cheaply with some effort.
Hmmm... So you're saying that someone shooting 120 film, the same frequency of someone shooting medium format digital, will come out cheaper than someone shooting a Fuji GFX 50s or Pentax 645Z? I'd like to see your math on that assertion and how it fits into the Practical/Financially viable bucket.

It goes without saying that I can save money shooting large format by shooting 2-5 frames a month, but I don't think most shooting medium/large format as a hobby would consider that fun or even hobby-like.
Ultimately convenience wins for most people, who are inherently lazy. They'd rather be sat in front of a TV being brainwashed, than learning a craft such as Darkroom printing.
I agree that people are mostly lazy, but not in this case.. I think people are mostly keen on not doing the ridiculous. The average Joe isn't going to learn archaic dark room printing, when to most people, it does not seem to offer an aesthetic advantage over far quicker modern methods and or does not offer an aesthetic advantage worth paying for when compared to pigment ink prints.
Shooting film doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive, and for some, in the long term it can be cheaper, but it requires discipline and effort, that's the bit most people don't like.
Yes, kind of like walking or riding a bike to work daily. It can be done, cheaply, and with more effort... but, you know.. that flies in the face of what most reasonable adults consider practical... which nullifies the condition that the OP made clear in the title of the thread, which he tethered practicality and financially viable, at the hip.
 
In the end it’s either a hobby, in which case it has an associated cost that you’re happy with, or a business in which case film or digital is just part of the cost of doing business.
Yes - kinda like either your alive or dead since there really isn't an in-between.
I don’t understand the comparison or what you’re trying to say ?
I'm saying that it's a given that it's either a hobby or business because there really isn't anything else in-between the two. . just like there isn't with dead or alive - you're either one or the other :)
Question: Do you think more people would shoot considerably more 4x5 and 8x10 if the good films cost $0.50 and $1 per sheet? What about medium format film - do you think a lot of the younger crowd would shoot far more than they currently do if film and film processing costs were negligible to their budget?
I’ve no idea what other people would do - I shoot mostly 35mm or smaller (APS, 110, Minox etc)
My question was what whether you thought more people would shoot more film, especially the larger formats, if price was not a factor. I think we can both agree that (for example) landscape hobbyist aren't selecting 35mm as their first choice based on aesthetics.. thus, would more of that demographic shoot medium or large format if the cost was negligible?

I assert that a large barrier to entry for larger formats (film or digital) is overall cost.. but due to the advantages of digital, it's easily more practical and financially viable for most people, hobbyists, and professionals alike.
 
In the end it’s either a hobby, in which case it has an associated cost that you’re happy with, or a business in which case film or digital is just part of the cost of doing business.
Yes - kinda like either your alive or dead since there really isn't an in-between.
I don’t understand the comparison or what you’re trying to say ?
I'm saying that it's a given that it's either a hobby or business because there really isn't anything else in-between the two. . just like there isn't with dead or alive - you're either one or the other :)
So how is that relevant to my assertion that I regard all non professional photography using a dedicated camera as a luxury? If it’s a hobby you need to decide for yourself if that’s how you want to spend your money. Conversely if it’s for business then the choice of film or digital is just one of the many things you need to consider, along with having your own studio or website as part of doing business. Your comment doesn’t appear relevant
Question: Do you think more people would shoot considerably more 4x5 and 8x10 if the good films cost $0.50 and $1 per sheet? What about medium format film - do you think a lot of the younger crowd would shoot far more than they currently do if film and film processing costs were negligible to their budget?
I’ve no idea what other people would do - I shoot mostly 35mm or smaller (APS, 110, Minox etc)
My question was what whether you thought more people would shoot more film, especially the larger formats, if price was not a factor.
Ive no idea what would make people shoot large format. If it was cheaper than 35mm I wouldn’t shoot large format
I think we can both agree that (for example) landscape hobbyist aren't selecting 35mm as their first choice based on aesthetics..
No, I don’t agree - that doesn’t apply to me, 35mm or smaller is my first choice for everything. One of the best landscape photographs I’ve ever seen was taken on a Minox (8x11mm)
thus, would more of that demographic shoot medium or large format if the cost was negligible?
I’ve no idea what other people think. You may want to look up to see if someone has done a survey in that area ? There are certainly some surveys on the users of film, and IIRC the primary film size used is 35mm
I assert that a large barrier to entry for larger formats (film or digital) is overall cost.. but due to the advantages of digital, it's easily more practical and financially viable for most people, hobbyists, and professionals alike.
I don’t regard £1,000+ for a camera and lens as being financially viable for most people. For *most* people a separate camera is a luxury that they don’t need
 
Last edited:
One point of view is that creativity comes from constraints. Jon Stewart (formerly of The Daily Show) said that give him the freedom to do anything and he was lost. Give him constraints, and the creative juices flow.
I see digital as having constraints too, just different ones.

If the bar for what is possible is raised, the level of acceptability is also raised. I am a lot more demanding about the quality of the work I produce than I ever was with film because I make much larger prints.
When I started work all our reports were written in longhand and typed by a typing pool. You’d do a check of the report and send it back for corrections by the pool. It would then go for technical check and corrections would be made (by the pool) and finally approval (with possibly some more changes). So at most there were four edits because it was difficult to do so.

Now everyone uses word processors and make hundreds of edits changing the report, getting the wording “just so” (then changing it back :-) ). The same formal steps (technical check and approval) are still there, but because it’s so easy all the words are “polished” until they shine (or so people like to think :-) ).

So are the reports “technically” better ? Yes, because they’re typeset and laser printed, rather than run off on a typewriter, plus they’re searchable as PDFs and can be emailed. But are they better in terms of what they say, and their authoritativeness ? Absolutely not, because *that has nothing to do with technology*, that is to do with the checking and approval process and the skills and knowledge of the people doing it.
But a report is not art. And as someone who authors and edits reports on a regular basis, it is no longer enough just to fill it with words. Charts and other forms of graphical content can add to the informativeness and readability.

Producing an illustrated user guide used to require a huge effort, and doing it in colour was incredibly expensive. Now it is possible to import charts, diagrams and even photos (like the ports on the back of a server) into a document.

And we have extended the breadth of shared information to include websites (with video and image content) that include feedback and comment sections.

Authors are now required to master many different skills that they never had to worry about before.
The same is true for photographs - the “quality”, that is the ability to produce an emotional response in the viewer, is completely independent of any “technical” quality in the image.
Not really. There were just so many things that were impossible with film, but are now possible if not exactly simple. The creative gamut has been extended by an order of magnitude.

And because we are saturated with photographs, being able to stand out is a great deal harder. When I shot film, it was enough to capture a nice scene in good light. Now, there are a million images of nice scenes in good light appearing on the internet every minute.

How do you stand out when the average is so much higher than it was and the average viewer is so jaded by constant repetition?
 
Most photographers do not, will not, and cannot find a practical and or financially compelling reason to shoot film.
I don't think we can say that (or argue against it) without doing a LOT of surveys. :)
However if you're a hobbyist that shoots as much film as a hobbyist typically shoots digital frames, then that usually doesn't make fiscal sense especially if you're using 4x5 or larger film sheets.
Well, I would guess, from product availability and what's coming back, that most hobbyists are in 35mm, followed by 120. And the whole point of film is that you don't shoot as much as you do in digital -- spray-n-pray gets expensive. As I mentioned, I shoot about a roll a week, often less. Given the same set of circumstances, shooting digital or film, I'll come back with far more digital shots -- but the number of keepers is about the same. And I'm pretty sure the people who shoot LF go out with a lot more prep. But I would imagine their %age of keepers is higher than with digital as well. Nailing the shot when you only have one shot? Now *that* takes skill!
Remember, to get the best image quality in digital, you need a late-model camera.
Not to my eyes. I'm betting that most people can't tell or would struggle to tell the difference between an 8x10 print (before cropping) from a Canon 5D2 compared to the same print size file from a 5D3.
Okay, fair enough -- at least until sensor technology makes a big leap, but you do get access to IBIS and other technologies that make it easier to get better image quality. The changes seem to be enough that a lot of digital hobbyists have an urge, if not a need, to upgrade regularly. I don't think we did that nearly as often as film. (However, your argument, that someone might upgrade a film camera to get more latitude and options related to capturing the moment is a good and valid one.)
To get the best image quality in a given size of film, you simply buy the right film.
To get the same image quality of a Fuji GFX 100S, you basically need 4x5 film, which is roughly $225 per pack (100 sheets). 8x10? That's roughly $200 per 10 sheets.
Nah, I think you can hit that level of resolution with a 6x7.
So for every 500 photos, you've paid a pre-tax of $1,125, before scanning or dealing with your local service bureau...
For 4x5? Not sure how the math is going, but 5 packs of 100 is $1,000 -- but we next need to ask a 4x5 photographer how many frames they shoot in a typical week. I'm guessing they aren't burning through 24 exposures like I am with 35mm roll film, or 12-15 with 120 roll film. At 4 frames/week, that 500 sheets is two years worth of film.
and that's 4x5.... try shooting at least 20 sheets of 8x10 monthly.. that's over $400 monthly - in just film alone you've purchased a Fuji GFX 100s after shooting (very lightly) for 18 months.
Except the GFX won't give you 8x10 quality! :)

Aaron

--

My Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/aarongold/
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top