Any Practical And Financially Viable Reason To Do Film Photography?

Sourov

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If you look at the music industry, Vinyl never disappeared. Music video did kill the Radio Stars. Even today many artists do release a vinyl version of their digital release.

I love Film Photography. It's A pure Joy. It reminds me that, even though we complain about almost every digital camera in the market, it's just incredible that how much we can simply achieve we a simple cheap Digital Camera .

Also, the process of film is wonderful. It makes me feel like a creator of handmade artisanal products. Although, in my case, it's a hybrid photography. Because, I don't print with enlargers in the Darkroom. I scan.

So, it's hybrid.

In brief, the limitations of Film Photography, are the fun and enjoyable bit of a film photography. It's like a Blind Date. You never know. Sometimes I genuinely love the outcome. Sometimes, I learn to love it.

So, in the end, it's all hobby. If there was money involved, I would definitely use Digital.

I am no Nick Carver. He or very few folks like him do make money on Film Photography courses or selling Prints made on film. Other than that, what digital can not do that film can?

Good News that, film is coming back . In it never stopped really. But there are more and more people shoot film. Me including.

But, in the professional world, is it viable? Or it's just for pure 'Art' and for Hobby? Is film equivalent to Vinyl or Cassette?

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Sourov Deb
 
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Self-restriction;

Cheaper ecosystem :)
 
But, in the professional world, is it viable? Or it's just for pure 'Art' and for Hobby? Is film equivalent to Vinyl or Cassette?
In the professional world, what can you do on film that you can not reproduce in digital?

What can your client ask for that can not be done in digital, or "fix" in digital?

You, or myself, shoot film because you like it. You like your film cameras more than your digital cameras, you like "the look" if you have the chance of optically make your prints (otherwise "the look" is your scanner look...)

I miss badly optical prints. I cherish my old prints with special care because I know it will be hard to have more done.
 
If you look at the music industry, Vinyl never disappeared. Music video did kill the Radio Stars. Even today many artists do release a vinyl version of their digital release.
The vinyl LP should of been consigned to the dustbin of technologies long ago when the CD was introduced. The day I heard a CD player at a friends, I bought one myself the next day.

The "vinyl revival" is a marketing success , proving that the "sheeple" are easily fooled. You are listening to a distorted version of the original, the "warm sound" is in fact distortion. I was told this by a musical consultant to one of Italy's Opera houses. He told me a well mastered CD is has much better sound quality. Try some ECM CD recordings for the proof of the pudding.
I love Film Photography. It's A pure Joy. It reminds me that, even though we complain about almost every digital camera in the market, it's just incredible that how much we can simply achieve we a simple cheap Digital Camera .
I once worked for Italy's leading ballet company. When you have shot an evening dress rehearsal, then rushed home and worked all night to develop 30 rolls of film in a small smelly darkroom, and then made strips of enlarged contacts, you will realise film is a pain in the butt. Without sleep I would spend the day making press release pictures for the Premier.

Imagine the digital workflow. You can show the frames to the artistic director on the computer after the dress rehearsal. A bit of PP on the chosen shots and then a Win transfer to the Company.
Also, the process of film is wonderful. It makes me feel like a creator of handmade artisanal products. Although, in my case, it's a hybrid photography. Because, I don't print with enlargers in the Darkroom. I scan.
I have made digital copies of my Jazz archive. I have made far better prints of these negatives using Capture 1. I just use digital dogging and burning tools, instead of cardboard disks on the end of a wire.

Developing a film is a mechanical activity. The print is the craft, and the craft of a digital darkroom worker is just the same as a wet print worker.

I shot performing arts on Tmax pushed to 1600-3200 ISO. The grain is horrible compared to what my Z7 does at 3200ISO. Shooting performing arts with todays digital cameras is just so superior. Unlimited shots, no film changing in a dark theatre, and an image quality that is much better.
So, it's hybrid.

In brief, the limitations of Film Photography, are the fun and enjoyable bit of a film photography. It's like a Blind Date. You never know. Sometimes I genuinely love the outcome. Sometimes, I learn to love it.
If I take a trip to some far away place, I am happy to know I have got the results I want. After buying my D300, I shot one roll of Tmax, which I never bothered to develop. For any reasoning photographer, film is dead.
So, in the end, it's all hobby. If there was money involved, I would definitely use Digital.

I am no Nick Carver. He or very few folks like him do make money on Film Photography courses or selling Prints made on film. Other than that, what digital can not do that film can?

Good News that, film is coming back . In it never stopped really. But there are more and more people shoot film. Me including.
I feel it would be better if most of these people learnt about the aesthetics of photography, rather than using an outdated superfluous technology.
But, in the professional world, is it viable? Or it's just for pure 'Art' and for Hobby? Is film equivalent to Vinyl or Cassette?
I do not think so. Time is money.
 
A small group of trained artists have turned to film in our community. They hold demonstrations and classes. They sponsor group exhibitions. It seems they are rewarded. I’m happy for them, and for those who are taking on film.

I worked with film and wet processes for thirty-five years. I would not for any reason, most of all a practical one, go back. My digital images, as well as the processes by which I make them are much more satisfying to me. Today’s really good digital equipment is a dream in comparison to the hard-earned cameras, film, paper, chemicals and darkroom equipment I owned decades ago. I happily gave it all away to a young artist in need, who was enrolling in a community college film photography course in 2003.

Buying, processing, scanning and printing film today would cost me a dollar per shot easily. No thanks.
 
No, it never 100% went away.
True that. Ilford's 2018 survey showed 43% of film users never stopped using it. Granted, that's probably skewed towards die-hards. I did a survey here -- small sample, but 26% said they never stopped shooting film.
But the biggest challenge would still be getting it developed & printed. I'm guessing the most accessible these days is by mail? Doesn't seem like even the big chains are developing film on site any more - Wal-Mart, Staples, etc.?
Here in the US, big drug-store chains like CVS and Walgreens still do film processing, though they send it off to labs rather than doing it in-store.
Ok, that’s what I thought.
There are still of film labs in big cities
That would be Philly for me and if I were still shooting film and needed on-site processing that would be enough to make me give it up cold turkey.
and plenty of mail-order labs. Prints are inkjet rather than wet, but that started in the late 90s or early 2000s, I think.

Costs can be higher, but don't need to be. Adjusted for inflation, I think it still costs about the same to run a roll of C-41 through the soup than as it did in 1993, maybe a couple bucks more.

But the bigger and better change, IMHO, is the DIY developing scene. Seems like there are more chemical choices and good mail-order delivery. When I was a student in the early 90s we avoided color developing, but today there are complete DIY kits.

IMHO it's a good time to be a film photographer, maybe better than before digital came along.
I enjoyed it before I went all digital, but not something I pine for.
 
Way too broad a question. What processes? There are some processes that have drifted into the artisan class.

This is deep into art photography, but it's possible. May start with looking an old processes like gum-bichromate or albumen prints. Daguerreotypes/tintypes are having a moment again. too, but that's tricky stuff.

Practical? Viable? Possibly. It's a niche market. Digital can't do everything film/paper can. I've yet to see anything close to a platinum print, or a tintype.

If I was going to jump back into this type of artisan work again, it would be with a large format camera and contact printing. I'd probably have to "coat my own" since I doubt the old materials are still available.

Fair warning: a lot of these old processes are very toxic.
 
Back in the days when I was running a full-time film photography business I was spending about $500 a month on film, darkroom supplies, and lab processing -- about $6,000 per year.

An online inflation calculator tells me that would be about $16,000 in today's money.

$16,000 will buy a lot of digital equipment, enough to keep most of us going for quite a few years.

Gato
 
First, it's too late. Cause folk are genuinely engaging and responded with plenty of explanation.

Also, posting here and In Film Forum would be a double post. This is a open forum anyway. Open to any subjects
 
One of my jobs I partnered with a friend on a large commercial account. He did most of the people photography, I did the product and architecture, plus the black and white lab work and printing.

Every month he would shoot a Saturday night award dinner and cocktail gathering. He would drop the film to me around midnight or one, I'd work all night to develop film and have prints, typically 75 to 100, ready for him to pick up the next morning. He would spend most of Sunday typing captions and putting up a bulletin board display at the main office, ready to view when the staff came in Monday morning.

All good fun.

Last week I shot a job that called for a gallery of 100 photos. The total time from putting the card in the computer to posting the gallery online and sending the URL to the client was around 3 hours -- although I did not have to type captions, thank goodness.

Even typing captions it would have been less than half the time we put in on the film job -- and zero cost for film, chemistry, or paper.

Gato
 
Buying, processing, scanning and printing film today would cost me a dollar per shot easily. No thanks.
Maybe if you're shooting slides and looking for an expensive lab. I primarily shoot B&W film, and my cost-per-click is between 12 and 24 cents. For me, scanning at home but not developing, color is around 40-50 cents per shot.

Aaron
 
It's not strictly a film post. Here in Open Talk it is attracting an active debate with a wide variety of views, including posts from interested members who would never have seen it on the film forum.

Gato
 
I have so much of my fathers photography equipment. cameras and lenses and filters that cost tens of thousands over the years from the sixties. i would be happy to use it if it was simple and cheap to develop the films.
 
Buying, processing, scanning and printing film today would cost me a dollar per shot easily. No thanks.
Maybe if you're shooting slides and looking for an expensive lab. I primarily shoot B&W film, and my cost-per-click is between 12 and 24 cents. For me, scanning at home but not developing, color is around 40-50 cents per shot.

Aaron
The last time I shot a 36 exposure roll of Ektar 100 ($12), sent it to Dwayne’s in KS for development, scanning, printing 4X6” and shipping ($24), the total cost came to $36. I’m not about to invest again in B&W equipment, chemistry, papers. Like I said, I’m happy for those of you who want to go this way.

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https://www.flickr.com/people/vrankin/
 
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Jeez - I was simply suggesting it as a means to seek further information and participation. I wasn’t suggesting that you’re in the wrong forum or your question is not welcome here.
 
Jeez - I was simply suggesting it as a means to seek further information and participation. I wasn’t suggesting that you’re in the wrong forum or your question is not welcome here.
Thank you for clarifying it. It's too easy to misinterpret.

I didn't want to make a double post .
 
I have been using a cheap Kodak Scanza to digitize my negatives that have sat, untouched, for 20+ years. I am enjoying the "look" I am getting, though no one would rave about the sharpness or color accuracy of the scans. "Retro" doesn't even start to describe it. :)

The more I scan these, the more I could understand why someone might shoot film just to scan it with a low-end scanner. It is, shall we say, "different" and for someone with artistic pretensions or aspirations, with a "vision" of how they want an image to look, film could be an appealing choice. Example of a negative I scanned just this morning. Processed in Lightroom. I really like it.

20 years ago, strip joint/nightclub and motel side by side. :)
20 years ago, strip joint/nightclub and motel side by side. :)
 
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No matter how you slice it, compared to digital, it is....
• More expensive
Not when you take into account camera costs, especially if you replace your camera regularly. I gather that I spend less on film, processing, scanning and cameras than hobbyists who replace their digital rigs every 2-3 years.
Uh huh

Let's tilt this in film's favor. The user spends $5000 on digital camera bodies every 2 years, and sells the old bodies for 30% of cost. That works out to $1,650 per year.

Next, we assume you already have multiple high-quality film bodies, never need a CLA or repairs, never need replacements, never buy any film cameras for the fun of it.

How many rolls of film is that? Let's say you shoot half color print film, half B&W which you process at home, and no slide film, and your typical cost (including storage) averages $15/roll. The break-even point is around 110 rolls.

Obviously, the math changes drastically if you spend less on digital camera bodies, or buy analog cameras, or shoot larger film formats, or shoot slide film, or pay to develop and scan your negs, or make silver gelatin prints.

You can be more selective about what you photograph and thus shoot less film, but now you're paying a different cost -- opportunity cost, as you're not taking the shot. You're also spending lots of time developing and scanning your film.

By the way, I'm pretty sure the people who constantly buy new digital cameras are the same type of people who constantly buy film gear too, yes? ;)
• More restricted
What does this mean? (Seriously, I am curious.)
With 35mm film, you're stuck with one ISO and type for multiple exposures. The camera doesn't measure or adjust white balance. Many have only manual focus or primitive autofocus; same for motor drives. Most don't have multiple exposure modes, or auto bracketing, or focus stacking, or aspect ratio crop in the viewfinder. Only a handful of film cameras have primitive stabilization. If you aren't proofing with a Polaroid, you can't check your exposure. If you shoot B&W film, you can't do things like add a red filter in post. The list goes on.

Meanwhile, you can easily choose to work slow, limit yourself to 1 ISO, 1 color profile, manual exposure, manual focus, and no exposure preview with digital. If that's how you want to work, and you don't use your gear that way, that isn't the gear's fault.
• Much, much easier to irrevocably screw up (see below)
Read: Harder
Harder = Less Practical. QED, yes? :D
• Lower quality (if you use any sensor larger than a smartphone)
Nope.
I've seen plenty of digital and analog prints in my time, and I have no qualms saying that 50mp cameras match 4x5 sheet film (with, as noted, the possible exception of contact prints). Even Micro 4/3 is pretty much on par with medium format film, and outperforms it in high-res mode.
• Worse for the environment
• Far more toxic if you work directly with chemistry
Can't comment here, since I don't know chemistry, but there are natural alternatives for developing, and I don't recall many deaths due to exposure to D-76.
The film has to be made somewhere, using large amounts of fairly nasty chemicals, and is sent to you in little metal containers inside little plastic containers that get thrown away. Kodak had to set up a $50 million cleanup trust, and promise to pay more, when it went bankrupt in

"Natural" doesn't mean "good for you or the environment." B&W chemistry won't burn your skin, but can still be bad for your health. That's why you should always ventilate your darkroom, wear gloves, and so on.

Digital certainly isn't 100% green, but its environmental footprint is much lower than film.
At best, you might be able to sucker a few rubes into thinking that film is somehow "special." It isn't. It's just an old, tired, toxic tech.
Well, the vast majority of us rubes are people who have shot film in the past. The "newbie hipster" is largely an invention of the film-hating crowd. Young people shooting film are in the minority, though I hope that will change, as the energy and innovation they have brought to film has fueled its resurgence.
Funny how most people use the "young people" argument as evidence that film is booming. :D And no one seems to have any real numbers.

Anyway, my comment was not age-specific, and was oriented as much at clients as photographers.
Records: We agree, personally I think vinyl is a huge pain in the butt, but then again I'm not a music aficionado. But I know there are many valid arguments to be made in favor of its superiority.
I've also heard for all my life how Stradivarius violins sound better than modern ones. Guess what happens in a blind test?
And that's a big part of the reason I like film. Digital: Point, click, peep. Done. Easy. Yawn.
The things that digital makes easy, and film makes hard, are not the things that make a photo great. They just screw up your workflow.

What makes a photo great is the selection of the subject; the composition; the tonality, and so forth. I.e. it's the photographer, not the gear, that is responsible for a great image. None of that changes by using an analog camera.
Good News that, film is coming back .
Ugh, this nonsense again.

No, film is not "coming back." Like vinyl, it's a shadow of its former self.
Actually, it is. The market bottomed out about 15 years ago -- but now it's growing, to the point that Kodak is bringing back emulsions it had discontinued.
Again, I seriously doubt those types of claims, and I see no real evidence that the film market is growing. The only data point I'm seeing is that Kodak's revenues collapsed years ago, did not recover, and are still mostly drifting down.
Why bother manipulating digital when a phone can do it in the blink of an eye?
Now you're getting it. :D
Film, on the other hand, takes all that away. It requires genuine skill -- and skill that cannot be (easily) manipulated by a machine.
lol... Yeah, not so much.

Countless millions of unskilled photographers used film for decades. Point, click, shoot, drop off film, boring. Most people do that today, too. A big part of the "film revival" in the past few years are low- or no-skill cameras, like instant or disposables.

Andy Warhol took thousands of photos using instant film. Where was the skill? It was in his eye, not in choosing between Rodinal and D-76.

And again, if you want digital photography to be hard? No problem. Use prime lenses, manual focus, manual exposure, tripod, turn off the screen, stick to one ISO, shoot RAW.
To quote JFK: We do these things "not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills."
JFK wasn't saying that "we should make it harder to get to the moon." No one thinks that NASA engineers today should use slide rules instead of computers, because "hard is better than easy."

Plus, yeah, he was fibbing a bit. JFK wanted to put an American on the Moon because the US was losing the "Space Race," and NASA thought the US could get there before the Russkies.
 
No. Film is dead. Film is only now for the "craft" element of photography. If people enjoy that fine, but for the quality of final images it is dead.
It really isn't, and some very good wedding and landscape photographers use it as a differentiator for their work. 35mm film used to be used for billboard work, every size image you can do with digital you can do with film, and then some. Digital wins on speed, convenience and cost, and the cost part can be debatable, depending on volume.

Film is no more dead than hand carved furniture compared to flatpack, or original hand paintings compared to printed copies. Film often looks different, there is no magic digital bullet that can always replicate that look, sometimes it can be close, other times? not so much. If film was 'dead', it would cease to be commercially viable, and the opposite has happened, Kodak can't produce colour film it fast enough at the moment. There is a whole new generation enjoying the look and experience of shooting film, denial isn't going to change that.
 
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