this is why 20MP is not enough

the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
But what is the use case here? You can zoom it in, and for several steps even the scale up holds to show you detail. What exactly do you want to accomplish?

This is not clear.

If you need a lot of detail up close of an object, that's what macro lenses are for.

Your zoom in comment applies to pretty much a wide range of cameras here, even the 24, and 26 MP variants. I am not sure I understand what's the concern here.

- prints -> you can print quite big

- looking at a photo in a phone- you can look at it quite well *and* do zoom in for quite a range looking pretty good

- 4k monitors- well, are you looking at the photograph you took or are you talking about a need for cropping?

Is a 4k monitor how your friends/family/customers/exhibitions are going to be looking at your shot but zoomed in? Why?

Is the point that you really can't zoom in into the picture at all much? What software are you using? Even bare bones Mac preview allows you to zoom in quite a lot.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - Apparently Selwyn Duke and not George Orwell
 
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the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
Again, another one with a need for a photography class. There is this thing called composition "Put simply, composition is how the elements of a photo are arranged. A composition can me made up of many different elements, or only a few. It's how the artist puts those things within a frame that help a photograph become more or less interesting to the viewer."
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
 
the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
That's why you need appropriate zoom lenses, possibly into the tele range.

I find that viewing files zoomed to pixel peeping levels looks way better if I tick the "Smoothed" option for my copy of FastStone Viewer.

5dfc247445c448478697bbe5d191ad6d.jpg
 
the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
Again, another one with a need for a photography class. There is this thing called composition "Put simply, composition is how the elements of a photo are arranged. A composition can me made up of many different elements, or only a few. It's how the artist puts those things within a frame that help a photograph become more or less interesting to the viewer."
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
the iPad Pro top of line with retina XDR display, the bigger one is a resolution of

"2732-by-2048-pixel resolution at 264". (from Apple's website) or a ~5.595 megapixel file if we converted that to a picture.

The resolution of the 20MP file is

Pixel Height: 3,888
Pixel Width: 5,184

This is hardly "too close to the screen resolution." For web pushing the vast majority of work out there does not even publish a 4k (8MP) file becuase it's too much memory to view around.

You can still publish that (big) 20 MP file if you want and people can take a look zooming in reasonably. I am not sure I understand your point.

If what you want is for people go "Blade Runner" to zoom in to person in the background to see what back pack brand they have, I am afraid. you will have to use a Fuji high end medium format and publish that super huge file online which I haven't heard anyone doing.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - Apparently Selwyn Duke and not George Orwell
 
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the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
Again, another one with a need for a photography class. There is this thing called composition "Put simply, composition is how the elements of a photo are arranged. A composition can me made up of many different elements, or only a few. It's how the artist puts those things within a frame that help a photograph become more or less interesting to the viewer."
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
Nobody cares about your "thoughts". I compose carefully and most here do as well. One (you may not) chooses a lens and distance that is right for the subject or you just move closer. Do you use a zoom lens? Do you even know what a macro lens can do?

The subject leaves here are about 5mm. How large was your flower?
The subject leaves here are about 5mm. How large was your flower?
 
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20mp is ample. You need to improve your photographic technique.

Mike
not true IMO.

i went to an indoor sprots event a few days ago and due to covid restrictions i coulndt leave my seat. I had 2 fast primes to choose from, none gave me the perfect FoV. I ended up cropping the wider prime by 1.5x - 2x.

Agressives crops are very common for birds/wildlife too.

I'd consider that sceneario a big advantage for FF because of noise performance and MP. With a 2x crop youre left with only 3.8MP (16:9) on M43 and noise gets very apparent.
 
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
Well, that’s real bummer if nobody cares about composition and people zoom in to look at pixels instead of seeing whole image. Is that really what people do nowadays?
 
the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
Again, another one with a need for a photography class. There is this thing called composition "Put simply, composition is how the elements of a photo are arranged. A composition can me made up of many different elements, or only a few. It's how the artist puts those things within a frame that help a photograph become more or less interesting to the viewer."
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
the iPad Pro top of line with retina XDR display, the bigger one is a resolution of

"2732-by-2048-pixel resolution at 264". (from Apple's website) or a ~5.595 megapixel file if we converted that to a picture.

The resolution of the 20MP file is

Pixel Height: 3,888
Pixel Width: 5,184

This is hardly "too close to the screen resolution." For web pushing the vast majority of work out there does not even publish a 4k (8MP) file becuase it's too much memory to view around.

You can still publish that (big) 20 MP file if you want and people can take a look zooming in reasonably. I am not sure I understand your point.

If what you want is for people go "Blade Runner" to zoom in to person in the background to see what back pack brand they have, I am afraid. you will have to use a Fuji high end medium format and publish that super huge file online which I haven't heard anyone doing.
But you can do that also w/ m4/3. I didn't notice this fellow as I shot but at normal resolution on my screen of this 11MB jpeg I can clearly see the guy's feet and even those faintly of two birds on the small islands to the right at one mile away. What do you want, anyway?



53ac87f9236347f6acaffe136f0254e8.jpg
 
20mp is ample. You need to improve your photographic technique.

Mike
not true IMO.

i went to an indoor sprots event a few days ago and due to covid restrictions i coulndt leave my seat. I had 2 fast primes to choose from, none gave me the perfect FoV. I ended up cropping the wider prime by 1.5x - 2x.
Wrong lens!
Agressives crops are very common for birds/wildlife too.

I'd consider that sceneario a big advantage for FF because of noise performance and MP. With a 2x crop youre left with only 3.8MP (16:9) on M43 and noise gets very apparent.
 
the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
Again, another one with a need for a photography class. There is this thing called composition "Put simply, composition is how the elements of a photo are arranged. A composition can me made up of many different elements, or only a few. It's how the artist puts those things within a frame that help a photograph become more or less interesting to the viewer."
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
Zoom in for what? For the sake of zooming in?

This might be the lamest reason for more mp that I have ever seen.
 
Please make sure you're bringing this important observation to the attention of other folks using the Canon 1DXiii, Nikon D500, Nikon D5, Nikon Z50, and Canon R6. And maybe the Sony A7S series users. All of them also need to know so they'll trade up for more megapixels.
and they will... it is just a matter of time
Almost 20 years ago, a friend tried to convince me that I would be unable to detect whether images were taken with a film camera or a digital one, back then at 6 MP. He had taken and printed several identical shots. I was able to identify for each one which was film and which was digital.

Fast-forward a few years: after going through four older iterations of digital cameras, I bought a Nikon D90, a 12 MP body. It produced great, sharp shots I happily printed up to 30" by 20". Absolutely nobody was able to tell that those were taken with a digital camera. That's because at normal viewing distances, 12 MP is plenty enough resolution to get strong, sharp images. This depends a little on individual eyesight, but for most of us, the limit is at about 8-10 MP.

Fast-forward again: today, I own a Nikon D850 and a Z7ii, plus a Canon R5. Those are all 45+ MP bodies. The primary, in fact, the only reason I got the high resolution is because I shoot lots of small birds and often end up cropping a lot.

Coincidentally, I started eyeing and am about to order the OM-1 with the Oly 150-400 TC lens. At 20 MP, it will give me more pixels on the bird, not less, because instead of with 500mm lenses, I'll now be shooting with a 1.000mm one in 35mm terms. I am starting to think I may part with the Nikons and the Canon and still consider that an upgrade. (No, I am not getting an FF lens longer than 500mm. They are all too darned heavy for hand-held shooting.)

A resolution of 20 MP is just fine for everyone except for those printing billboard size. Well, even the billboard shooters get enough from an MFT body that can deliver 50, even 80 MP with that same sensor.

I realize that most photographers crave higher resolution, but they have the same point that all those people have who buy 4K or 8K TVs and then watch TV from a distance where that higher resolution makes absolutely no difference because their eyesight isn't good enough anyway: none whatsoever. It makes them feel better, though.

So, yeah, you're probably right: they will trade up for more megapixels, even though there is no reason for it. If someone wants higher resolution for the sole purpose of pixel peeping, that's not a photographer, that's a geek. .
 
the point is you can barely zoom with a 20mp file.
Again, another one with a need for a photography class. There is this thing called composition "Put simply, composition is how the elements of a photo are arranged. A composition can me made up of many different elements, or only a few. It's how the artist puts those things within a frame that help a photograph become more or less interesting to the viewer."
Nobody cares about composition. The point is 20 mp is way too close to the native resolution of most computers/ipads and smartphones. And for web publishing where people zoom into pictures it's just not enough.
the iPad Pro top of line with retina XDR display, the bigger one is a resolution of

"2732-by-2048-pixel resolution at 264". (from Apple's website) or a ~5.595 megapixel file if we converted that to a picture.

The resolution of the 20MP file is

Pixel Height: 3,888
Pixel Width: 5,184

This is hardly "too close to the screen resolution." For web pushing the vast majority of work out there does not even publish a 4k (8MP) file becuase it's too much memory to view around.

You can still publish that (big) 20 MP file if you want and people can take a look zooming in reasonably. I am not sure I understand your point.

If what you want is for people go "Blade Runner" to zoom in to person in the background to see what back pack brand they have, I am afraid. you will have to use a Fuji high end medium format and publish that super huge file online which I haven't heard anyone doing.
But you can do that also w/ m4/3.
Not to the same degree of a 100MP file. I was giving an example at the top end.
I didn't notice this fellow as I shot but at normal resolution on my screen of this 11MB jpeg I can clearly see the guy's feet and even those faintly of two birds on the small islands to the right at one mile away. What do you want, anyway?
You have to ask the OP, not me. Everyone can have different requirements from yours too.
--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - Apparently Selwyn Duke and not George Orwell
 
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Well a quip between some valid points you bring up - there is a market indeed for higher MP m Otherwise why the bigger format cameras with 100mp+ class resolution

but that doesn’t seem to be the use case of the op
 
Well a quip between some valid points you bring up - there is a market indeed for higher MP m Otherwise why the bigger format cameras with 100mp+ class resolution

but that doesn’t seem to be the use case of the op
Honestly? You tell me. I cannot think of a single rational reason why someone would want 100+MP.
 
Well a quip between some valid points you bring up - there is a market indeed for higher MP m Otherwise why the bigger format cameras with 100mp+ class resolution

but that doesn’t seem to be the use case of the op
Honestly? You tell me. I cannot think of a single rational reason why someone would want 100+MP.
Wow hasselblad must have absolutely no market for those high end medium format cameras they sell

taking that comment out - there’s high bend product photography and all that where these super high resolutions are used along with the improved pixel quality of those cameras

also landscape photographers that are printing a wall

you and I are not this market
 
20mp is ample. You need to improve your photographic technique.

Mike
I was expecting this comment. Thank you.

What's next ?

I don't need RAW, just improve my technique to get the perfect in camera jpeg ?

I don't need IBIS, just improve my technique ?

I don't need AF, just improve my technique ?

I don't need a camera, just improve my drawing technique ?

it's always the technique.
Well, at least you could get the focus and DOF done properly.
 
Please make sure you're bringing this important observation to the attention of other folks using the Canon 1DXiii, Nikon D500, Nikon D5, Nikon Z50, and Canon R6. And maybe the Sony A7S series users. All of them also need to know so they'll trade up for more megapixels.
and they will... it is just a matter of time
Almost 20 years ago, a friend tried to convince me that I would be unable to detect whether images were taken with a film camera or a digital one, back then at 6 MP. He had taken and printed several identical shots. I was able to identify for each one which was film and which was digital.

Fast-forward a few years: after going through four older iterations of digital cameras, I bought a Nikon D90, a 12 MP body. It produced great, sharp shots I happily printed up to 30" by 20". Absolutely nobody was able to tell that those were taken with a digital camera. That's because at normal viewing distances, 12 MP is plenty enough resolution to get strong, sharp images. This depends a little on individual eyesight, but for most of us, the limit is at about 8-10 MP.

Fast-forward again: today, I own a Nikon D850 and a Z7ii, plus a Canon R5. Those are all 45+ MP bodies. The primary, in fact, the only reason I got the high resolution is because I shoot lots of small birds and often end up cropping a lot.

Coincidentally, I started eyeing and am about to order the OM-1 with the Oly 150-400 TC lens. At 20 MP, it will give me more pixels on the bird, not less, because instead of with 500mm lenses, I'll now be shooting with a 1.000mm one in 35mm terms. I am starting to think I may part with the Nikons and the Canon and still consider that an upgrade. (No, I am not getting an FF lens longer than 500mm. They are all too darned heavy for hand-held shooting.)

A resolution of 20 MP is just fine for everyone except for those printing billboard size. Well, even the billboard shooters get enough from an MFT body that can deliver 50, even 80 MP with that same sensor.

I realize that most photographers crave higher resolution, but they have the same point that all those people have who buy 4K or 8K TVs and then watch TV from a distance where that higher resolution makes absolutely no difference because their eyesight isn't good enough anyway: none whatsoever. It makes them feel better, though.

So, yeah, you're probably right: they will trade up for more megapixels, even though there is no reason for it. If someone wants higher resolution for the sole purpose of pixel peeping, that's not a photographer, that's a geek. .
Have you ever blended several different photos together. Well when you do, you want the highest possible resolution. In fact the higher, the better.
 
But you can do that also w/ m4/3. I didn't notice this fellow ......
Are you sure that's a fellow, it looks more like a merman or mermaid to me.

500% upsize crop from your image.
500% upsize crop from your image.
 

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