Macro Education

I own the lens (Sony 90 2.8 on a7RIII), I just need to learn to use it.

This experiment is partly a Covid shut in thing, but I will soon be going to Costa Rica and I should really be prepared to take pics of orchids, frogs and other critters. I am mostly about Birds, but I do have an interest in this area. Sorry for long Intro....

I hung a dried orange slice in one of our windows with a piece of fishing line.

Yes, exposure is an issue for such a heavily backlit subject, and yes, i can learn much about Lightroom. My questions are really about the mechanics of the lens.



This picture was taken at the 0.5-0.28 m setting, on a Tripod, with SS off.

First question was my attempts to use MF - whenever I got the Focus right, and I went to take the picture it became smaller in both the viewfinder and the final image. Strange, I am sure there is a simple explanation, perhaps in my Settings for either the lens or the camera.

When I go to MF on the lens, do I need to also go MF in the camera or does the lens talk to the camera ?

I found that on AF I would need to get close to the subject, but in MF I needed to stand far away. I do not understand that.

What circumstances would prompt you to use Full vs Infinity to 0.5m, or 0.5-0.28m ? I am assuming that 0.28 m is the closest one can get to a subject.

This is very good gear in the hands of a Neanderthal, your help is appreciated. I did look for a resource online along the lines of Sony 90 2.8 for Dummies without success. I am led to believe this lens is capable of far better results than what I have posted above.

I appreciate your patience in answering what are probably basic questions for Macro aficionados.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130989292@N07/

Jimfastcar said:

I own the lens (Sony 90 2.8 on a7RIII), I just need to learn to use it.

This experiment is partly a Covid shut in thing, but I will soon be going to Costa Rica and I should really be prepared to take pics of orchids, frogs and other critters. I am mostly about Birds, but I do have an interest in this area. Sorry for long Intro....

I hung a dried orange slice in one of our windows with a piece of fishing line.

Yes, exposure is an issue for such a heavily backlit subject, and yes, i can learn much about Lightroom. My questions are really about the mechanics of the lens.



This picture was taken at the 0.5-0.28 m setting, on a Tripod, with SS off.

First question was my attempts to use MF - whenever I got the Focus right, and I went to take the picture it became smaller in both the viewfinder and the final image. Strange, I am sure there is a simple explanation, perhaps in my Settings for either the lens or the camera.

Click to expand...

Not sure I understand. What became smaller?

Jimfastcar said:

When I go to MF on the lens, do I need to also go MF in the camera or does the lens talk to the camera ?

Click to expand...

MF on the lens is MF. There is no MF on the camera.

Jimfastcar said:

I found that on AF I would need to get close to the subject, but in MF I needed to stand far away. I do not understand that.

Click to expand...

Not sure I understand that one either. If the AF works at a particular distance then you should be able to manually focus at that distance as well.

Jimfastcar said:

What circumstances would prompt you to use Full vs Infinity to 0.5m, or 0.5-0.28m ? I am assuming that 0.28 m is the closest one can get to a subject.

Click to expand...

The shorter setting is for when you are shooting something in that range. Also that 0.28 m is from the sensor to the subject, and not the front of the lens to the subject.

Jimfastcar said:

This is very good gear in the hands of a Neanderthal, your help is appreciated. I did look for a resource online along the lines of Sony 90 2.8 for Dummies without success. I am led to believe this lens is capable of far better results than what I have posted above.

I appreciate your patience in answering what are probably basic questions for Macro aficionados.

Click to expand...

Part of the problem could simply be that you were shooting something in tricky light (back lit) and the camera's focusing system was getting confused. Also make sure that the camera's diopter wheel is set to zero if you do not need to adjust for poor vision. The first time I went out with the Canon MP-E 65mm I thought I made a mistake buying that lens cause I could not get anything in focus (manual focus only). Turns out I had hit the diopter adjustment wheel on my camera -doh! Guess that makes me a member of the Neanderthal club

If you are going to shoot in a jungle then you might want to bring a flash for macro. How well do you know flash photography?

This is a really good video on understanding light quality (applies to all light sources):



I have been working on my flash diffusion and I took this shot of water on a oil coated DVD as a torture test. Almost twice life size:



No harsh specular highlights.

--
Also known as Dalantech
My New Book: https://www.blurb.com/b/11015692-extreme-macro-the-art-of-patience-volume-ii
My Blog: http://www.extrememacro.com
My gallery: http://www.johnkimbler.com
Macro Tutorials: http://dalantech.deviantart.com/gallery/4122501/Tutorials

Sony cameras can automatically magnify the image in the viewfinder while the lens is focused in manual mode. It can be disabled in the menu regarding focusing aids. But most of us like the feature enabled.

AeroPhotographer said:

Sony cameras can automatically magnify the image in the viewfinder while the lens is focused in manual mode. It can be disabled in the menu regarding focusing aids. But most of us like the feature enabled.

Click to expand...

Ah, I just took a few test shots.

If I understand this feature - while focusing, the detail is magnified in order to assist with accuracy, but once the shutter is pressed, the true image size appears both in the viewfinder and the LCD - am I interpreting correctly ?

John K said:

Jimfastcar said:

I own the lens (Sony 90 2.8 on a7RIII), I just need to learn to use it.

This experiment is partly a Covid shut in thing, but I will soon be going to Costa Rica and I should really be prepared to take pics of orchids, frogs and other critters. I am mostly about Birds, but I do have an interest in this area. Sorry for long Intro....

I hung a dried orange slice in one of our windows with a piece of fishing line.

Yes, exposure is an issue for such a heavily backlit subject, and yes, i can learn much about Lightroom. My questions are really about the mechanics of the lens.



This picture was taken at the 0.5-0.28 m setting, on a Tripod, with SS off.

First question was my attempts to use MF - whenever I got the Focus right, and I went to take the picture it became smaller in both the viewfinder and the final image. Strange, I am sure there is a simple explanation, perhaps in my Settings for either the lens or the camera.

Click to expand...

Not sure I understand. What became smaller?

Click to expand...

This question I think was addressed in the post above this one.

John K said:

John K said:

When I go to MF on the lens, do I need to also go MF in the camera or does the lens talk to the camera ?

Click to expand...

MF on the lens is MF. There is no MF on the camera.

John K said:

I found that on AF I would need to get close to the subject, but in MF I needed to stand far away. I do not understand that.

Click to expand...

Not sure I understand that one either. If the AF works at a particular distance then you should be able to manually focus at that distance as well.

Click to expand...

From my reading about this lens, it does have a quirk - it hunts a lot. Perhaps this is a function of the many possible points of focus when looking at a close and complex subject.

John K said:

John K said:

What circumstances would prompt you to use Full vs Infinity to 0.5m, or 0.5-0.28m ? I am assuming that 0.28 m is the closest one can get to a subject.

Click to expand...

The shorter setting is for when you are shooting something in that range. Also that 0.28 m is from the sensor to the subject, and not the front of the lens to the subject.

Click to expand...

Thanks for clarification. In the interest of simplicity, would it make sense to just keep it on FULL ? If I understand the setting it cover the entire range. That said, if that is true, what would be the point of the middle setting Infinty to 0.5m ?

John K said:

John K said:

This is very good gear in the hands of a Neanderthal, your help is appreciated. I did look for a resource online along the lines of Sony 90 2.8 for Dummies without success. I am led to believe this lens is capable of far better results than what I have posted above.

I appreciate your patience in answering what are probably basic questions for Macro aficionados.

Click to expand...

Part of the problem could simply be that you were shooting something in tricky light (back lit) and the camera's focusing system was getting confused. Also make sure that the camera's diopter wheel is set to zero if you do not need to adjust for poor vision. The first time I went out with the Canon MP-E 65mm I thought I made a mistake buying that lens cause I could not get anything in focus (manual focus only). Turns out I had hit the diopter adjustment wheel on my camera -doh! Guess that makes me a member of the Neanderthal club

Click to expand...

I will do that if not already, I wear glasses so in theory I should not need to adjust at the viewfinder

John K said:

If you are going to shoot in a jungle then you might want to bring a flash for macro. How well do you know flash photography?

Click to expand...

I am taking a flash with a Beemer extender for Birding. I will bone up on Flash for Macro

John K said:

This is a really good video on understanding light quality (applies to all light sources):
I have been working on my flash diffusion and I took this shot of water on a oil coated DVD as a torture test. Almost twice life size:

No harsh specular highlights.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your time on this, appreciate it

i will continue to refine my technique so that i can become not an expert, but somewhat proficient - we leave for CR February 20.

--

Jimfastcar said:

AeroPhotographer said:

Sony cameras can automatically magnify the image in the viewfinder while the lens is focused in manual mode. It can be disabled in the menu regarding focusing aids. But most of us like the feature enabled.

Click to expand...

Ah, I just took a few test shots.

If I understand this feature - while focusing, the detail is magnified in order to assist with accuracy, but once the shutter is pressed, the true image size appears both in the viewfinder and the LCD - am I interpreting correctly ?

Click to expand...

Yes. Personally, I turn off the auto mag, and assign the focus mag to C1 (close to shutter release button) and only use it when it's needed. YMMV.

Jimfastcar said:

Thanks for clarification. In the interest of simplicity, would it make sense to just keep it on FULL ? If I understand the setting it cover the entire range. That said, if that is true, what would be the point of the middle setting Infinty to 0.5m ?

Click to expand...

If the lens is hunting to find the focus then limiting the range can speed the process up a little.

number_5 said:

Jimfastcar said:

AeroPhotographer said:

Sony cameras can automatically magnify the image in the viewfinder while the lens is focused in manual mode. It can be disabled in the menu regarding focusing aids. But most of us like the feature enabled.

Click to expand...

Ah, I just took a few test shots.

If I understand this feature - while focusing, the detail is magnified in order to assist with accuracy, but once the shutter is pressed, the true image size appears both in the viewfinder and the LCD - am I interpreting correctly ?

Click to expand...

Yes. Personally, I turn off the auto mag, and assign the focus mag to C1 (close to shutter release button) and only use it when it's needed. YMMV.

Click to expand...

That's what I do, with C2.

Oddly though, I had to check whether I had it set up, and where. It turns out that I don't use it. Perhaps I should use it more, but working hand-held at magnifications between around 0.5X and 8X, with subjects that are often moving around and situations where I may have to react quickly, I find the full view is sufficient for placing the focus plane (to the extent that I can place it exactly where I want it with the camera wobbling around from hand-shake). Also, using the full view lets me keep an eye on composition, a perspective you lose with magnification on, and which changes as subjects move around. And I think it is probably easier to keep a moving subject in the frame with the full view.

What works is going to vary on subject matter and technique. For example if using a tripod with stationary subjects I suspect I would use magnification a lot.

You might find some useful information in this review of the 90mm macro at the-digital-picture.com. I only dipped into a couple of paragraphs, but I noticed this which looks relevant as you used a tripod for the shot you posted: "Sony recommends turning OSS off when using a tripod." Perhaps there might be some other useful information there.

You might want to experiment with smaller apertures to get greater depth of field, which is almost always an issue with macro unless you particularly like thin depth of field. The resolution chart in this review at ephotozine.com shows the lens as being very sharp out to f/11 (which will give you more than twice the depth of field as the f/4.5 you used for the shot you posted), and still rather sharp at f/16.

Bear in mind though that when doing macro the effective aperture (the one you are actually using) can be significantly smaller than the one you set on the camera. The approximate formula for this is

effective f-number = nominal f-number * ( 1 + magnification )

where nominal f-number is the f-number you set on the camera/lens.

So for example, at 0.5X magnification, if you set the f-number to f/11, the effective f-number you are using is 11 * ( 1 + 0.5 ) which is around f/16. At 1X magnification that f/11 becomes effective 11 * ( 1 + 1 ) = f/22.

I suggest you experiment to find out what f-number/magnification envelope works well enough for your purposes. Factors in "well enough" might include:

• final image size (You can use smaller apertures for smaller viewing sizes because the additional loss of detail from the extra diffraction softening of a smaller aperture won't be visible at smaller output sizes)
• Whether the image will be viewed on screen or printed.
• Likely viewing conditions (e.g. different for social media on phones than for critical viewers using large PC screens)
• How much you are going to crop
• What post processing you use. (Suitable post processing can let you get good looking results from smaller apertures.)

I suggest that you don't get too caught up in what you read about the horrors of diffraction softening/loss of detail. Depending on what you are doing there may be factors, such as flash illumination and how it is deployed, whether you focus stack or use single shots, composition, and your post processing that have a much bigger impact on the look of your images than the absolute sharpness of the captured image. Personally I find that experimenting is the only way I can find out what works in my hands, for my subject matter, for my skills and shortcomings, and for my visual preferences.

I am using the same camera lens set up. I will list a few things I have noticed with my lens.

It breaths a lot!!

I often find that if I have the focus limiter switch set to full, I have trouble getting it to auto focus on close subjects. I am constantly having to change the setting. If I am trying to get a moving subject that is close but isolated from the background, I will set the switch to close and use zone or wide for the focus setting. For things like honey bees and hover flies, the camera can focus very quickly with this set up.

For subjects that are further away, the middle position will speed up focus.

Don't fear to use small apertures. Up to f14, you probably will not be able to see any diffraction. Even the smallest aperture on the lens will be pretty good.

Manual focus assist is more useful for distant subjects. If you are trying to find the subject in the viewfinder, it is much easier with the focus assist turned off.

That is one of the things I have in my custom menu.

The 7RIII is smart enough that the steady shot does not need to be turned off when using a tripod.

Nearly every button on my camera is set to the way I like to use the camera.

Thanks all for your advice - every sub-discipline in Photography has its own subset of knowledge and experience

I will be making a visit to my local Camera store, there are a couple of folks that are extremely knowledgeable