Why i dont want to be a "professional" photographer.

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things and to be licensed or get diploma you would need to learn to repeat exactly this sequence of actions. Basically society just synchronizes a person to the "proper way of thinking about photography" forcing him to use "proper techniques" by repeating after so called "professionals", who are professionals if you think about it its people who learned skills of that profession/trait and now passing it along to others or use to make living off of it.

My problem with this approach is is all this industry standards and desire for perfection take out all the fun of learning something yourself and getting good at it. Instead they convince you that you need to get perfect "color", get "perfect exposure", shoot in "perfect resolution" with proper "professional camera", and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

Basically after they brainwashing you to follow all this standards to earn the "professional" credentials and to do this you must repeat after them (like parrot) and buy all this professional grade equipment.

The thrive for perfection, is at cost of turning photography from joyful activity that you do for yourself into a routine activity you do to earn living or earn recognition as "professional".

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

Why invent bicycle again?

Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

Professional meaning you get paid.

The people paying determine what is worth paying for. If you do not want to produce photos in the style or meet the criteria and quality level, then yes, don't pursue professional photography.

I think for most us, the pay is too low vs the effort and we are not good enough to get the higher paid work.

--
https://www.ronchauphoto.com/
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo

If you learn on your own, you will spend horrendous amounts of energy on everything you find about, and you'll never fully understand many things. There's a reason why you would go to a teacher to learn things.

On the bright side, if you come out with your brain not completely charred, you'll learn to appreciate the value of an instructor.

Invanovich22 said:

Ivanovich22
[...] and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

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I understand that professionals often shoot in JPEG.

Invanovich22 said:

...

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

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I'm not sure if you like photography, but you certainly seem to like ranting about it in this forum.

I suggest that you spend more time taking photographs and less time worrying about it.

Sounds like you want to be a starving artist. Nothing wrong with that. Just remember you have to suffer for your art

I don't want ruin a perfectly good, enjoyable hobby

Invanovich22 said:

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things and to be licensed or get diploma you would need to learn to repeat exactly this sequence of actions. Basically society just synchronizes a person to the "proper way of thinking about photography" forcing him to use "proper techniques" by repeating after so called "professionals", who are professionals if you think about it its people who learned skills of that profession/trait and now passing it along to others or use to make living off of it.

My problem with this approach is is all this industry standards and desire for perfection take out all the fun of learning something yourself

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How does this square with your asking for advice from others elsewhere in these forums? Surely taking other people's advice will take all the fun out of it?

Invanovich22 said:

and getting good at it. Instead they convince you that you need to get perfect "color", get "perfect exposure", shoot in "perfect resolution" with proper "professional camera", and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

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Why do so many people have such a downer on those of us who shoot RAW? Maybe it's not a case of us being brainwashed, maybe we do it because it gives us more control and we enjoy it?

Invanovich22 said:

Basically after they brainwashing you to follow all this standards to earn the "professional" credentials and to do this you must repeat after them (like parrot) and buy all this professional grade equipment.

The thrive for perfection, is at cost of turning photography from joyful activity that you do for yourself into a routine activity you do to earn living or earn recognition as "professional".

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I have studied photography to quite a high level and at no point did it prevent me form finding joy in photography. If anything it enhanced my joy.

Invanovich22 said:

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

Why invent bicycle again?
Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

Click to expand...

That's fine. The vast majority of photographers around the world and in these forums aren't professionals. We're hobbyists. We do photography purely for the joy of it. In other words, photography isn't our primary source of income.

You also take exception to what you perceive to be expectations of professional photographers. Here's a link to the code of ethics for members of the International Society of Professional Wedding Photographers (ISPWP): https://www.ispwp.com/pages/code-of-conduct

It shares much in common with codes of ethics for many professions. The code addresses integrity and honesty in one's business practices, a commitment to delivering high quality work, to having the equipment necessary to delivering the work regardless of circumstances, and to always treating the customer with respect.

Which aspects of the code do you object to?

Let's dig a bit deeper into your complaint that working professionally in a field takes the fun out of it. What makes it not fun? Is it the business aspect of working professionally in a field? You don't want to market your product or services, meet with clients, negotiate contracts, deal with the occasional complaint, invoicing, the costs and demands of running a business?

If you're not self-employed or the business owner, do you object to having to report to an owner or a manager who's your supervisor? Is it working and dealing with other employees? Is it having a work schedule you'd be expected to keep?

Or is it simply that you object to being in a position where your work has to satisfy anyone's expectations other than yours?

What I'm trying to understand is, if photography doesn't interest you as a profession, what does? Is there work you want to do where you'd enthusiastically embrace the quite reasonable expectations customers, managers, colleagues and peers would have of anyone calling themselves a professional in that field? Where the work you do has to meet the expectations and standards of others?

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
http://www.billferris.photoshelter.com

You don't understand what "professional" photography is. Simple as that.

You're not being paid to be innovative or experimental, you're being paid to get a shot. There is huge satisfaction in delivering what the client wants, and even more satisfaction for repeat business.

Invanovich22 said:

Why invent bicycle again?
Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

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No one is asking you to re-invent the bicycle. They are just asking you to know how to ride the bicycle when you turn up for work.

Mostly agree.

The difference between a professional photographer and an artist is like the difference between a construction worker and a sculptor like Michelangelo.

One just does what he is told to do, and as a result, the shots all look derivative and contrived. The other actually creates.

Invanovich22 said:

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things and to be licensed or get diploma you would need to learn to repeat exactly this sequence of actions. Basically society just synchronizes a person to the "proper way of thinking about photography" forcing him to use "proper techniques" by repeating after so called "professionals", who are professionals if you think about it its people who learned skills of that profession/trait and now passing it along to others or use to make living off of it.

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I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Photography is essentially a craft - a combination of acquired skills and innate creativity. In the cabinetmaker's craft, you first learn how to use saws, planes, chisels, and sandpaper before you can build cabinets that are likely to serve their purpose both functionally and esthetically. You learn these skills because they are proven to be the ones that are important to the craft.

Invanovich22 said:

My problem with this approach is is all this industry standards and desire for perfection take out all the fun of learning something yourself and getting good at it. Instead they convince you that you need to get perfect "color", get "perfect exposure", shoot in "perfect resolution" with proper "professional camera", and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

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If you want to skip the part of photography that involves learning skills from experienced practitioners, go ahead. The majority of people who take photos are with you on that.

Invanovich22 said:

Basically after they brainwashing you to follow all this standards to earn the "professional" credentials and to do this you must repeat after them (like parrot) and buy all this professional grade equipment.

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Equating the learning of important skills with brainwashing is just sad.

Invanovich22 said:

The thrive for perfection, is at cost of turning photography from joyful activity that you do for yourself into a routine activity you do to earn living or earn recognition as "professional".

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Some professional photographers do indeed crank out the same thing day after day, but you're wrong if you think all professional photographers do that.

Invanovich22 said:

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

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Do whatever you want. But indeed, don't expect to be paid for it.

Invanovich22 said:

Why invent bicycle again?
Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

Click to expand...

Learning skills does not inhibit creativity or exploration. Salvador Dalí learned the techniques of meticulous photorealistic painters, then went on to define the new genre of surrealism using those exact techniques. And he made a fortune doing it as a professional artist.

Glass Jaw said:

Mostly agree.

The difference between a professional photographer and an artist is like the difference between a construction worker and a sculptor like Michelangelo.

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This is simply wrong, some proffesional photographers are innovative "art" photographers but all "art" photographers are professionals.

Glass Jaw said:

One just does what he is told to do, and as a result, the shots all look derivative and contrived.

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Irvin Penn was employed by Vogue but non of his shots looked derivative or contrived. Likewise many other photographers.

Glass Jaw said:

The other actually creates.

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Irvin Penn created.

Glass Jaw said:

--
All posts are my opinions. Many are facts.

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Phil A Martin said:

Glass Jaw said:

Mostly agree.

The difference between a professional photographer and an artist is like the difference between a construction worker and a sculptor like Michelangelo.

Click to expand...

This is simply wrong, some proffesional photographers are innovative "art" photographers

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Correct.

Phil A Martin said:

but all "art" photographers are professionals.

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Incorrect.

Learning is hard work. You have to love what the activity, be willing to study hard. You need decent equipment and know to how to use it. The same is true of most activities. Music, painting, writing. The artist who don't want to learn grammar rules or scales is rarely successful. If you're going to design a car, you should be able to explain how a bicycle works.

You seem to think that someone who studies can't be creative and won't discover anything new. That learning is synonymous for brainwashing. That knowing any "rules" stops you from breaking them.

How you do know all your efforts won't be towards discovering what has been known? Stuff you could have learned quickly under professional guidance. To be creative and break the rules, you must know what the rules are. Otherwise, your creative efforts could come across as childish and unoriginal.

We all start with play. Banging on a drum, mashing play-dough, scribbling on your parents wall. Then we get serious.

I'm not sure what country you hail from so maybe it's different there. In the USA there is no test, no certification or anything that declares you a professional photographer. So, it's not like a mechanic, accountant, lawyer, doctor where there are certifications or degrees required to practice.

My definition of a "professional" may also be different than yours - my definition of a professional is someone who earns the majority of their living wage from that thing - in this case photography. Earning $500 a year doesn't make you a "professional" any more than a 10 year old with a lemonade stand is a 'professional restraunteur' because they earn $50 from the stand.

While there are degree programs here, it is certainly not essential to opening your own business. It is worth noting though, that success in photography as a business is much like other self-owned businesses: your business skills are far more important than your photography skills. Lots of talented chefs have had their restaurants go down the tubes. Same with photographers. So, running a successful business takes certain skills - trying to self learn those skills without proper mentors/bosses/education can be disastrous.

There are jobs that don't require you to run your own business - the largest of which used to be photo-journalist. However, those job opportunities have shrunk dramatically. Companies employ staff photographers, but those jobs have been combined with other roles as technology has made the photography part easier - so, people doing other marketing activities may also wear the 'photographer' hat for product or officer photographs.

I'm still slightly confused if you're simply talking about education programs for photography rather than earning your full time living wage from photography though. It sounds like the former.

Invanovich22 said:

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things and to be licensed or get diploma you would need to learn to repeat exactly this sequence of actions.

Click to expand...

The reason people get 'licensed' is to that they don't harm anyone with improper construction techniques, inadequate piloting skills, negligent medical procedures, etc. etc.

Invanovich22 said:

Basically society just synchronizes a person to the "proper way of thinking about photography" forcing him to use "proper techniques" by repeating after so called "professionals", who are professionals if you think about it its people who learned skills of that profession/trait and now passing it along to others or use to make living off of it.

My problem with this approach is is all this industry standards and desire for perfection take out all the fun of learning something yourself and getting good at it. Instead they convince you that you need to get perfect "color", get "perfect exposure", shoot in "perfect resolution" with proper "professional camera", and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

Click to expand...

There is no such "industry standard" to expose a certain way or use a certain camera. Comments by random forum members do not constitute an "industry standard."

Invanovich22 said:

Basically after they brainwashing you to follow all this standards to earn the "professional" credentials and to do this you must repeat after them (like parrot) and buy all this professional grade equipment.

The thrive for perfection, is at cost of turning photography from joyful activity that you do for yourself into a routine activity you do to earn living or earn recognition as "professional".

Click to expand...

If you just want to tinker with you camera in a joyful way, go ahead. No one is stopping you or telling you otherwise. You don't have to justify your approach to anyone. And when you do discover something great, please post that here in DPR so we can perhaps learn from you.

Invanovich22 said:

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

Why invent bicycle again?
Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

Click to expand...

Invanovich22 said:

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things and to be licensed or get diploma you would need to learn to repeat exactly this sequence of actions. Basically society just synchronizes a person to the "proper way of thinking about photography" forcing him to use "proper techniques" by repeating after so called "professionals", who are professionals if you think about it its people who learned skills of that profession/trait and now passing it along to others or use to make living off of it.

My problem with this approach is is all this industry standards and desire for perfection take out all the fun of learning something yourself and getting good at it. Instead they convince you that you need to get perfect "color", get "perfect exposure", shoot in "perfect resolution" with proper "professional camera", and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

Basically after they brainwashing you to follow all this standards to earn the "professional" credentials and to do this you must repeat after them (like parrot) and buy all this professional grade equipment.

The thrive for perfection, is at cost of turning photography from joyful activity that you do for yourself into a routine activity you do to earn living or earn recognition as "professional".

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

Why invent bicycle again?
Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

Click to expand...

What a strange rant. The most successful professional photographers, as far as I can tell, are the ones that don't follow the same formula and create their own style no matter what field they are in.

Glass Jaw said:

Mostly agree.

The difference between a professional photographer and an artist is like the difference between a construction worker and a sculptor like Michelangelo.

Click to expand...

Not a good comparison. If a construction worker just "does what he wants" without following building codes, using the specified materials, using proper assembly techniques, etc, it literally is risking lives. Michelangelo and other artists like him created works of art for their own or others' pleasure. Nobody died as a result of them not conforming to any standard.

Glass Jaw said:

One just does what he is told to do, and as a result, the shots all look derivative and contrived. The other actually creates.

Click to expand...

Certainly there are pros getting by more on their business know-how than creativity, but there are plenty of creative pros as well.

Invanovich22 said:

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things and to be licensed or get diploma you would need to learn to repeat exactly this sequence of actions. Basically society just synchronizes a person to the "proper way of thinking about photography" forcing him to use "proper techniques" by repeating after so called "professionals", who are professionals if you think about it its people who learned skills of that profession/trait and now passing it along to others or use to make living off of it.

My problem with this approach is is all this industry standards and desire for perfection take out all the fun of learning something yourself and getting good at it. Instead they convince you that you need to get perfect "color", get "perfect exposure", shoot in "perfect resolution" with proper "professional camera", and of course you must use RAW format because professionals do.

Basically after they brainwashing you to follow all this standards to earn the "professional" credentials and to do this you must repeat after them (like parrot) and buy all this professional grade equipment.

The thrive for perfection, is at cost of turning photography from joyful activity that you do for yourself into a routine activity you do to earn living or earn recognition as "professional".

Me i like to enjoy what i do if there's something i dont know yet i like to learn it gradually by experience not start with this professional must have must do like color passports and other tools.

Why invent bicycle again?
Its fun of learn on your own plus you can discover things that many people who go by the book (repeat after someone) will never discover.

Click to expand...

I'm not surprised you don't want to be professional photographer, if you really think that's what it involves.

I would just add, as others above have pointed out, that the saddest part of this ridiculous diatribe is that you equate learning with being brainwashed!

Invanovich22 said:

I noticed in photography and about everywhere else in life that there are strict standards to what is considered "proper way" of doing things .... etc

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Yes, many things in life require training and certification. This typically ensures a minimum level of quality and/or safety. Professional photographers have no such requirements. It's just a good idea to actually know what you're doing before charging people for your work.

Learning from others doesn't prevent you from experimenting. A good education fosters experimentation, rather than discourages it. Plus, you may think that what you're doing is a brilliant new invention, and have no clue that someone else did it 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 years ago.

If you have fun learning on your own, then do it. Just remember that unless you're a genius, then it's going to take longer, and you're more likely to have gaps in your understanding. It's your time, spend it however you like.

That said, if you don't plan to charge for your photographic services, then any "pressure" you feel to imitate professional photographers is all in your own head. That is no reason to categorically refuse to get educated about something you enjoy.