Buying a Rebel? Be aware of...

ggivler · Nov 6, 2003

df1603 said:
Its not only the color, it is the plastic feel of a $1k "made in
china" toy...
even the quality of plastic housing on G series was much better
than 300D.

You know it is funny, but my film camera is a Rebel 2000, which I like and have gotten good service from. I personally think that the Digital Rebel has a more substantial feel and fits my hand better than the Rebel 2000. Now I will agree that the 10D feels much sturdier, which it is, but what I remember from trying it out in the store was darn (expletive edited), this is a much heavier camera than my Rebel 2000, once I get a big lens on it this thing is going to weigh a ton. I know much of how a camera feels is personal taste, and someday I hope to have reason and need for the added features of the 10D or one of its decendants, but for me, what the 10D had was not worth the extra $500

Just my 2 cents.

Greg

df1603 said:
sorry to say but I would expect much better material from such
relatively expensive camera...

SteveMattan said:

df1603 said:

4) DR is silver and will never become black for marketing reasons.

All these functions can be easily implemented (or enabled) by
firmware updates, but probably won't.

Click to expand...

That color change via firmware would be a neat trick!

--
Steve Mattan

Click to expand...

dchao · Nov 6, 2003

no doubt about it.

Daniella said:
dchao said:

Yes, 99% of the communication and cellphone technologies are
originated from military research, and then commerciallized later.

The GPS we used in car nagivation is also used to pinpoint Iraqi
buildings for the US missiles.

What did you think the US used to take spy pictures of Iraqi army
transporting WMD? A spy satelite.

Even the Internet started as a defense project by the Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

Here you go

Click to expand...

cameras · Nov 6, 2003

The USA makes the most sophisticated optics and electronics in the world. And the highest quality. Right here, by US of A hands and minds. Notice the USA research schools are loaded with Taiwanese and other foreigners. Notice how many foreign car makers now have plants in USA? HP, Intel, AMD etc all born here in USA

IanS · Nov 6, 2003

dchao said:
You see, that by added FEC, it will not harm either the 10D sales
or the 550EX sales. By disabling the FEC, it serves no purpose at
all except to follow the Rebel film camera tradition.

don't see how you came to that conclusion, if the 300D had FEC control onboard then that pretty much removes the main reason you'd buy a 550 on a 300D. A 420 would probably suffice... which would shift less 550's.

dchao said:
Again, if it is so subjective", who's to say that the Canon's
default flash brightness is the definitive one? If it's not, let
the user have a little bit more control over the flash brightness
to suite our taste.

If you read all the film Rebel's specs carefully, you will find FEC
is not supported even with external flash. So here is an example
of change of mind by the Canon marketing people.

So that's a positive enhancement that the 300D has over the 300V. Are you saying the 300D should ignore the FEC of an external flash?

My point is that photographic features such as FEC have always been designed in or out of Canon's SLRs and this will continue. The 300D fits that mould and it's one that served Canon, Nikon etc well over the years. Why should digital change that?

Even if the 300V doesn't respect external flash FEC, the 550 can still be set manually. The UK specs are less than clear on that. Either way, film or digital if you want to control the flash on a 300 series SLR, you can with a gun that has manual controls. With Canon there's just the 550EX, or you can go 3rd party... my point is this choice isn't new.

Now I'm perfectly willing to agree that FEC would be a nice to have but people seem to think they've been mistreated because it isn't there, I'm just saying precident would seem to indicate not.

df1603 · Nov 6, 2003

Daniella68313 said:
Daniella68313 said:

-communism, on the other hand, is a pretty beautiful thought. it is
a pity that no nation has managed to use it the way it was meant to
be used. so, communists are selfish, power-hungy and dangerous too.

Click to expand...

The problem with this system is that people did not had any hope of
a better life..no motivation at work either..the way the human
nature is..it is probably impossible to use that system and make
the people happy with it.

I lived behind iron curtain long enuff so I can tell that both of you are wrong! This system was based on fear and secret police. No freedom of speach, no freedom of choice, no freedom of press and media, no freedom of travel, no elections, no nothing but one political system that couldnt be changed....or changed only by war/revolution. People being jailed and murdered by the communists just because they had different opinion and thoughts, because they wanted to speak up and make some change. So dont tell me that communism is a beautiful thing, or people had no motivation to be happy with it,you have NO IDEA what this system really is...

kevin44958 · Nov 6, 2003

...i would guess they probably "really did" reduce the actual buffer sizes to reduce cost.

other than that i agree with what you are saying and don't have a problem with it.

dchao · Nov 6, 2003

Daniella said:
were not talking about 10D users here..but 300d Users...many people
who will buy the 300d would not have bougth the 10D. The 10D is
oriented more toward a prosumer market whereas the 10D is more
oriented toward a professional market...as a backup camera for the
1D maybe.

The dumb-down of the 300D is to prevent potential 10D users buying a 300D for $600 less. So it does matter what the 10D user are thinking. 10D is aimed more towards the professional market, in which the external flash is quite important for indoor shots. If they think they can get a 300D and put an external flash on it to achieve the same result. Why do they want to pay more? From this point of view, there is already, no difference between the 10D and 300D.

Daniella68313 said:
Anyway...chances are that many 300D users will use the onboard
flash as the main flash..just like me.

Good news for you, the 300D should automatically (i think) adjust the flash output by +1/2 stop if the internal flash is used.

dchao · Nov 6, 2003

exactly, top non-military researches in the US are all done by the Chinese, Taiwaness and the Europeans. So who're the brains behind all these researches?

cameras said:
The USA makes the most sophisticated optics and electronics in the
world. And the highest quality. Right here, by US of A hands and
minds. Notice the USA research schools are loaded with Taiwanese
and other foreigners. Notice how many foreign car makers now have
plants in USA? HP, Intel, AMD etc all born here in USA

Peter Mison · Nov 6, 2003

Joao,

You are exactly right! I'm new to the forum and I really enjoy reading the constructive tips and seeing the example photos however the constant craving for 10D like features is basically down right annoying now.

You make an excellent point, why would Canon release 10D spec Camera, call it 300D and sell it for nearly half the price, who would buy a 10D?

But in reality we got a camera in the 300D that produces images of the same quality as a 10D. the main thing after all is to produce high quality images like both the 300D and the 10D do. I for one was so glad that Canon released the 300D when they did else I probably would have bought a digicam and not a DSLR.

Thank you Canon for bringing a DSLR to the market at such an affordable price. Now I have a digital camera that fits in with my other EOS film based camera gear and gives me a lot more flexability and control than any digicam would have.

Pete

P.S. lets keep the focus on useful and constructive information!

Joao Roberto said:
After reading all those threads, I realize the following:

Digital Rebel is what it is and will never be better than this!

You are thinking about buy a Digital Rebel? Be aware of:

1) DR has no FEC menu control and will never have for marketing
reasons.
2) DR has no way to switch from ISO in sports mode for marketing
reasons.
3) DR has no way to shot 3 fps, like 10D, for for marketing reasons.
4) DR is silver and will never become black for marketing reasons.

All these functions can be easily implemented (or enabled) by
firmware updates, but probably won't.

Bear in mind that all this is a market decision. If Canon add
anything extra, they will canibalize 10D! So, don't expect to get
more on Rebel that you already have. You can dream about it, but I
bet this dream will never come true.

DR is a great camera for almost half of 10D price! (Body + a
similar DR lens).

I can live will all this limitations since I paid half of 10D
price. DR brought me to DSLR world and I'm enjoying every minute.

Stop complains and spend more time taking pictures. More pictures
you take, more your chances to get great ones.

I'm sure most of you will agree with me.

Best regards

JRGandara (sorry about my poor english ;-))
http://www.pbase.com/jrgandara/jrgandara_galery

Jim Samuel · Nov 6, 2003

SteveMattan said:
That color change via firmware would be a neat trick!

It's just a simple change in the pigmentation routine.

Wild-Mike · Nov 6, 2003

dchao said:
exactly, top non-military researches in the US are all done by the
Chinese, Taiwaness and the Europeans. So who're the brains behind
all these researches?

Is this a trick question about photography? If so, then I'm going to have to say photographers.

--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein

df1603 · Nov 6, 2003

you call 1000$ an affordable price for a plastic Rebel?

come on, what is wrong with you people, you are being used by global corporations to drain your pockets...

I think the price of all digi cams is simply out of proportion...I hope to see some real price drop with new DSLR next year...;-))

Peter Mison said:
You are exactly right! I'm new to the forum and I really enjoy
reading the constructive tips and seeing the example photos however
the constant craving for 10D like features is basically down right
annoying now.

You make an excellent point, why would Canon release 10D spec
Camera, call it 300D and sell it for nearly half the price, who
would buy a 10D?

But in reality we got a camera in the 300D that produces images of
the same quality as a 10D. the main thing after all is to produce
high quality images like both the 300D and the 10D do. I for one
was so glad that Canon released the 300D when they did else I
probably would have bought a digicam and not a DSLR.

Thank you Canon for bringing a DSLR to the market at such an
affordable price. Now I have a digital camera that fits in with my
other EOS film based camera gear and gives me a lot more
flexability and control than any digicam would have.

Pete

P.S. lets keep the focus on useful and constructive information!

Joao Roberto said:

After reading all those threads, I realize the following:

Digital Rebel is what it is and will never be better than this!

You are thinking about buy a Digital Rebel? Be aware of:

1) DR has no FEC menu control and will never have for marketing
reasons.
2) DR has no way to switch from ISO in sports mode for marketing
reasons.
3) DR has no way to shot 3 fps, like 10D, for for marketing reasons.
4) DR is silver and will never become black for marketing reasons.

All these functions can be easily implemented (or enabled) by
firmware updates, but probably won't.

Bear in mind that all this is a market decision. If Canon add
anything extra, they will canibalize 10D! So, don't expect to get
more on Rebel that you already have. You can dream about it, but I
bet this dream will never come true.

DR is a great camera for almost half of 10D price! (Body + a
similar DR lens).

I can live will all this limitations since I paid half of 10D
price. DR brought me to DSLR world and I'm enjoying every minute.

Stop complains and spend more time taking pictures. More pictures
you take, more your chances to get great ones.

I'm sure most of you will agree with me.

Best regards

JRGandara (sorry about my poor english ;-))
http://www.pbase.com/jrgandara/jrgandara_galery

Click to expand...

dchao · Nov 6, 2003

ha-ha, yes, it's a trick question.

300D is designed in Japan and manufactured inTaiwan without any US involvments or inputs.

Wild-Mike said:
dchao said:

exactly, top non-military researches in the US are all done by the
Chinese, Taiwaness and the Europeans. So who're the brains behind
all these researches?

Click to expand...

Is this a trick question about photography? If so, then I'm going
to have to say photographers.

--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems
longer -- Albert Einstein

Wild-Mike · Nov 6, 2003

df1603 said:
you call 1000$ an affordable price for a plastic Rebel?

I agree. Just think, a lightweight, durable DSLR that is capable of the same quality picutures as the D10. They should be selling for at least $1200.00 with the kit lens. What's wrong with them (Canon), are they crazy?

--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein

df1603 · Nov 6, 2003

Canon will be selling the camera at the price you would be willing to pay...

I suggest you come over to Europe, you can find 300D for even more then 1200$ for lens kit...

Wild-Mike said:
df1603 said:

you call 1000$ an affordable price for a plastic Rebel?

Click to expand...

I agree. Just think, a lightweight, durable DSLR that is capable of
the same quality picutures as the D10. They should be selling for
at least $1200.00 with the kit lens. What's wrong with them
(Canon), are they crazy?

--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems
longer -- Albert Einstein

cameras · Nov 6, 2003

Not done by them by any means. At one famous institution I know, all professors were American born and educated. Taiwanese were just students. Usually they go back home with what Americans have taught them. A few stay and America becomes their new home. Just as somewhere in the past your ancestor's and mine did same thing, if you are an American. America consists of all groups you mentioned. "Chinese, Europeans" make up a good part of USA population. You think the other ethnic groups cannot do research however? How racist. They are all Americans. Do you know anyone who was not from somewhere else in their ancestry? Only Native americans qualify for that. It has nothing to do with race, the point is that USA education, life style, environment, and it's workers can make and invent the most complex devices second to none. What major invention has been from Taiwan?

You seem to have an idea of "American" as some Neanderthal being that does not exist. The melting pot of America has proven a great success.

dchao said:
cameras said:

The USA makes the most sophisticated optics and electronics in the
world. And the highest quality. Right here, by US of A hands and
minds. Notice the USA research schools are loaded with Taiwanese
and other foreigners. Notice how many foreign car makers now have
plants in USA? HP, Intel, AMD etc all born here in USA

Click to expand...

Wild-Mike · Nov 6, 2003

df1603 said:
Canon will be selling the camera at the price you would be willing
to pay...

I would have, yes.

df1603 said:
I suggest you come over to Europe, you can find 300D for even more
then 1200$ for lens kit...

Thanks, but I'll pass on that

df1603 said:
Wild-Mike said:

df1603 said:

you call 1000$ an affordable price for a plastic Rebel?

Click to expand...

I agree. Just think, a lightweight, durable DSLR that is capable of
the same quality picutures as the D10. They should be selling for
at least $1200.00 with the kit lens. What's wrong with them
(Canon), are they crazy?

--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems
longer -- Albert Einstein

Click to expand...

--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein

Daniella68313 · Nov 6, 2003

df1603 said:
df1603 said:

df1603 said:

-communism, on the other hand, is a pretty beautiful thought. it is
a pity that no nation has managed to use it the way it was meant to
be used. so, communists are selfish, power-hungy and dangerous too.

Click to expand...

The problem with this system is that people did not had any hope of
a better life..no motivation at work either..the way the human
nature is..it is probably impossible to use that system and make
the people happy with it.

Click to expand...

I lived behind iron curtain long enuff so I can tell that both of
you are wrong! This system was based on fear and secret police. No
freedom of speach, no freedom of choice, no freedom of press and
media, no freedom of travel, no elections, no nothing but one
political system that couldnt be changed....or changed only by
war/revolution. People being jailed and murdered by the communists
just because they had different opinion and thoughts, because they
wanted to speak up and make some change. So dont tell me that
communism is a beautiful thing, or people had no motivation to be
happy with it,you have NO IDEA what this system really is...

I was refering to Russia mostly...my boyfriend is Russian.. I have no idea what was the case in other parts of the world.

I do beleive you though...I was mainly refering to this system if used without abusing the people and why I think it would not work due to the human nature. You are talking about a government abusing people rights...that is not what I was talking about.

Good thing it's gone anyway...we all agree on that.

--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.

dchao · Nov 6, 2003

That's my point, researches are been done by all countries around the world, not just the Americans. USA is just a melting pot with all the best researchers from all over the world coming here, hopefully to improve the quality of life for all of us.

cameras said:
dchao said:

cameras said:

The USA makes the most sophisticated optics and electronics in the
world. And the highest quality. Right here, by US of A hands and
minds. Notice the USA research schools are loaded with Taiwanese
and other foreigners. Notice how many foreign car makers now have
plants in USA? HP, Intel, AMD etc all born here in USA

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jason64167 · Nov 6, 2003

Soviet Union is long gone but look at what is happening in North Korea, Cuba and China.

People complain the US has such luxuries and yet people here can still be poor and go hungry.

Look at other parts of the world! Where people are shot for disagreeing with the central authority.

It's scary that in the new anti-USA movement in the world that people romanticize this sort of thing.

Daniella68313 said:
I do beleive you though...I was mainly refering to this system if
used without abusing the people and why I think it would not work
due to the human nature. You are talking about a government
abusing people rights...that is not what I was talking about.

Good thing it's gone anyway...we all agree on that.

Daniella68313 said:
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND,
Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.

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