Buying a Rebel? Be aware of...

3 posts in 3 months and you decide this is worth typing? You also hide your location in your profile, so guess what? I vote for you for #1 a$$clown...nothing more. Now shut the _ up before my violent self (I can't help it, remember) reaches for your pencil neck through your monitor. ~ m²
-americans are violent and agressive by nature. it is in their
genetic structure. america (as we know it today) was founded by a
group of european criminals and conquers, who had the courage, will
and physical means to destroy native people in order to gain
financial benefits & avoid court. this happened just a few hundred
years ago, so it is a well known and recorded fact. this is the
reason there is only one nation in the world that has ever used
atomic bomb. and this is the same reason why they so merrily hop
across the globe bashing others. but, you cannot blame them for it.
they cannot help it. instead, you should try to find ways to deal
with america the way that they don´t feel the need for agression.
that way every one of us can influence on their future generations
and make them breed calmer, more peaceful people who rely more on
cooperation between nations and not on brute force.

-communism, on the other hand, is a pretty beautiful thought. it is
a pity that no nation has managed to use it the way it was meant to
be used. so, communists are selfish, power-hungy and dangerous too.

actually, i might just as well bash the rest, too. and that indeed
is my point here. and since we all are just as big idiots we might
as well drop the whole sublect and consentrate on cameras.

i know a few nice americans personally. and a few chinese, too. i
hang with them and like both. i just don´t like the way the world
is run. gee, maybe i should run it...;=)
OK, let's stick to photographic topics now :-)
Lets see...How many people did the Communist murder?
--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems
longer -- Albert Einstein
--

'Brothers and sisters, we've learned that there's some bad bokeh going around out there. So like, just be careful man, alright?' (If Wavy Gravy emceed PMA)
 
Thanks for your worthless contribution to a forum that is about photography.
-americans are violent and agressive by nature. it is in their
genetic structure. america (as we know it today) was founded by a
group of european criminals and conquers, who had the courage, will
and physical means to destroy native people in order to gain
financial benefits & avoid court. this happened just a few hundred
years ago, so it is a well known and recorded fact. this is the
reason there is only one nation in the world that has ever used
atomic bomb. and this is the same reason why they so merrily hop
across the globe bashing others. but, you cannot blame them for it.
they cannot help it. instead, you should try to find ways to deal
with america the way that they don´t feel the need for agression.
that way every one of us can influence on their future generations
and make them breed calmer, more peaceful people who rely more on
cooperation between nations and not on brute force.

-communism, on the other hand, is a pretty beautiful thought. it is
a pity that no nation has managed to use it the way it was meant to
be used. so, communists are selfish, power-hungy and dangerous too.

actually, i might just as well bash the rest, too. and that indeed
is my point here. and since we all are just as big idiots we might
as well drop the whole sublect and consentrate on cameras.

i know a few nice americans personally. and a few chinese, too. i
hang with them and like both. i just don´t like the way the world
is run. gee, maybe i should run it...;=)
OK, let's stick to photographic topics now :-)
Lets see...How many people did the Communist murder?
--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems
longer -- Albert Einstein
--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein
 
After reading all those threads, I realize the following:

Digital Rebel is what it is and will never be better than this!

You are thinking about buy a Digital Rebel? Be aware of:

1) DR has no FEC menu control and will never have for marketing
reasons.
2) DR has no way to switch from ISO in sports mode for marketing
reasons.
3) DR has no way to shot 3 fps, like 10D, for for marketing reasons.
4) DR is silver and will never become black for marketing reasons.

All these functions can be easily implemented (or enabled) by
firmware updates, but probably won't.

Bear in mind that all this is a market decision. If Canon add
anything extra, they will canibalize 10D! So, don't expect to get
more on Rebel that you already have. You can dream about it, but I
bet this dream will never come true.

DR is a great camera for almost half of 10D price! (Body + a
similar DR lens).

I can live will all this limitations since I paid half of 10D
price. DR brought me to DSLR world and I'm enjoying every minute.

Stop complains and spend more time taking pictures. More pictures
you take, more your chances to get great ones.

I'm sure most of you will agree with me.

Best regards

JRGandara (sorry about my poor english ;-))
http://www.pbase.com/jrgandara/jrgandara_galery
--
Tanglefoot47
 
Its not only the color, it is the plastic feel of a $1k "made in
china" toy...
It's funny how people look down on China when in fact they are
turning out so much high quality consumer electronics that we take
for granted, from Palm handhelds to Microsoft and Logitech hardware
to computer motherboards and practically all PC computer enclosures
etc. etc.
--I don't care where it's made it still has to follow Canon spec's. This China this is total BS.

Tanglefoot47
 
it will have those features......

next generations of the 10d will have expanded features which will allow some of the current features to trickle down to future generations of the rebel. this happens in ALL electronics...
a reason i may wait for the next rebel... or maybe the one after....
 
I am into boating and started a website for boaters in my area. I started taking a lot of photos with the Powershot $45 and posting them online at the site: http://wnyboaters.com
All of the pictures except for October, are with the S45.

People started wanting prints of the photos and and wanted me to take pictures of their boats, waterfront property, etc. I was into photography years ago but went to point and shoot. Since the website, I have sold framed prints to the Mayor of N. Tonawanda for the office, the Chamber of Commerce, Marinas, many boaters, newspapers.

It wasn't planned at all.
So what does that have to do with image quality? Hey, if you suck
at photography the best camera in the world won't help. If you are
good at photography you can enjoy just about any camera. I made
over $3,000.00 with a little Canon S45 and I'm not a photographer.
I was just taking pictures as a hobby.
Sorry to ask - I was interested to know how you made money from
your photography? It's just a hobby for me too, but if there's a
way to cover some or all of the costs then I'm curious to know how.

Thanks

Alan
--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein
 
Its not only the color, it is the plastic feel of a $1k "made in
china" toy...
even the quality of plastic housing on G series was much better
than 300D.

sorry to say but I would expect much better material from such
relatively expensive camera...
If I was Canon, I would make DigiRebel2 (concurrent with the current digi-rebel) out of peg-iron just to get a laugh at the people who like to lug extra weight for payng extra money. I would advertise it to them on TV as a photography tool and exercise equipment in one and sell for four easy payments of $300 with battery and lens included as a free bonus.
 
Its not only the color, it is the plastic feel of a $1k "made in
china" toy...
All this talk about plastic....has anybody actually managed to
break a DR body yet??

cheers
--onto concrete from about 3 ft and it bounced and there was no damage. That is a preety good camera to withstand that kind of shock the Sony V1 can't.

Tanglefoot47
 
Flame retardant suit on, visor down... :-)

RANT MODE ON**

I have to confess that I'm still amazed at the amount of complaining that goes on about the features that have been supposedly crippled on the 300D and what should be done by Canon to rectify this!

Before I go too far, no I don't have a 300D but like many, it's release has certainly made me look carefully into what it's introduction at such a low price (compared to previous DSLRs) means for me. I currently own a Canon G2 (which I think is great) and a Canon EOS 500 film SLR (a Rebel equivalent).

After going WOW! when first hearing about the 300D, I looked pretty quickly at it's features. Low and behold they seem to match (excluding the obvious digital bits) those provided by the film EOS 300V; Is this purely co-incidence?

Now I know from experience that the 300/500 is 'bottom' of the EOS tree, the 30 gives more features, the 3 more still, and then you have the 1's for the real pros(!). However a quick glance at the Canon website will quickly lead you to this conclusion, this isn't brain surgery, yet.

So, continuing to look at the film SLR's for a moment next up the evolutionary scale from the 300 is the 30/33... Now what features does this have over the 300? FEC for one, control over which focus mode is used for two, more custom functions... in short more control. Now, is there a 30D yet? Not quite, we have a 10D. Now the 10D doesn't offer eye focus control, so perhaps is closer to the EOS 33 than 30, but it's in the ball park although given the price differential maybe it doesn't quite justify the extra money and this would seem to be borne out by the fact that it does appear to have dropped in price since the 300D launch. (Even if not offcially.)

Now why the rant? Well it seems to me that Canon are in the process of aligning their film and digital EOS bodies. Buy a film or digital quivalent number EOS and you can expect the same photographic functionality. Is this good or bad? Well, it's how it's been for film SLR's for some time. You want more control or better AF? Buy a more expensive body. If you can afford it, well at least you can use the same lenses and decent film, your choice. And here I think Canon need to be applauded as rather than fit an inferior sensor to the 300D, you get the same one (different country of manufacture) as used in the 10D. At least they've acknowledged that ultimate picture quality matters most.

The fact that this 'alignment' between film and digital seems to be happening should be seen as a good thing as it shows product line maturity. So expect more of it, yes it IS marketing but then it ain't new and everyone does it. It probably also signals an end to the new model every second culture that digital is trapped in. This too is good, it will help people get off the technology addiction, TAA anyone?

But I've spent more money than a top of the range P&S and don't have all the bells and whistles I had before? Canon are ripping me off. Come on, be serious. Take a look at cars, let's say you own a VW Golf (good car) with all the toys, air-con, sat-nav etc. Now for a better driving experience (or for status) you might want to try a BMW 3 series (50/50 weight distribution, rear wheel drive, fly by wire). It costs more but what's this? No toys? You're lucky to get a cassette player, forget your CD changer pal. Are BMW ripping you off? Depends what you want, if you want a better driving experience no... if you want more toys, well maybe, you're gonna have to pay a lot more for them, but those toys will be a lot better thought out than the VW ones and provide more.......

It's the same going from a top of the range P&S to a bottom of the range SLR. You may not have the toys but you do have a much better tool for photography, you just have to be prepared to work with what you have. It's been this way for SLRs for a long time... this is nothing new... it's not just Canon...

So, FEC, it isn't on the 300V, I doubt you'll ever see it on the 300D. You do have a choice though. IF you're serious about flash photography it's highly unlikely that the internal flash will last long. You'll buy an external. If you want FEC buy a flash unit with it on. It's still cheaper than a 10D. Of course you could by a 10D with a 420EX, but do you really do that much flash photography?

Also I find flash brightness to be highly subjective. On my G2 I think it's ridiculously over bright, if I take several pictures in a room people start walking into each other shortly afterwards suffering from temporary blindness. Need to take two pictures and in the second one people look like they've been hit over the head with a hammer. Now I can compensate, but it is (or was) a top of the range model so you'd expect to...

I may be wrong on this but the firmware idea; yes the 300D has the same sensor, the same DIGIC processor, but maybe just maybe neither of these are responsible for function? If they were surely you could have 10D custom functions on a G5? It's highly likely that other chips are responsible for such functions. You'd be mad to use a highly specialised custom chip for big standard software control. There are cheaper alternatives less specialised than a DIGIC, and less functions = less chips = less cost. The 300 is built DOWN to a price, perhaps you could call it a 3 Series Compact?

Am I missing something?

RANT MODE OFF**
 
Actually you responded to a post that simply was talking about China and Taiwain's view of each other and had to take a pot shot at the US... implying that the US, which has developed more technology than the rest of the world combined would probably be unable to produce a camera as good as the 300D (which is a laughable assertion).

As to your immediate classification of Americans as "war-mongerers" you can shove it. I work for an american communications corporation that makes the best comm systems used by businesses, our stuff has 99.999 uptime and saves lives, because you can't dial 911 if your comms don't work.
But at least, in the Far East, people build toys, cameras,
computers and cars, to improve quality of life and not for violence.

Well ... I didn't start the insulting with the "made in china toys"
thing.
At least China/Taiwan has ability to make one, I doubt the USA can
even make one as cheap or as good the 300D.
We make satellites, military hardware and the best communications
gear in the world.

While you can debate whether the US could build an AFFORDABLE
digital camera, there is no question that this country has the
technical know how.
 
You do have a choice though. IF you're serious about flash
photography it's highly unlikely that the internal flash will
last long. You'll buy an external. If you want FEC buy a flash unit
with it on. It's still cheaper than a 10D. Of course you could by a
10D with a 420EX, but do you really do that much flash photography?
You see, that by added FEC, it will not harm either the 10D sales or the 550EX sales. By disabling the FEC, it serves no purpose at all except to follow the Rebel film camera tradition.
Also I find flash brightness to be highly subjective. On my G2 I
think it's ridiculously over bright, if I take several pictures in
a room people start walking into each other shortly afterwards
suffering from temporary blindness. Need to take two pictures and
in the second one people look like they've been hit over the head
with a hammer. Now I can compensate, but it is (or was) a top of
the range model so you'd expect to...
Again, if it is so subjective", who's to say that the Canon's default flash brightness is the definitive one? If it's not, let the user have a little bit more control over the flash brightness to suite our taste.

If you read all the film Rebel's specs carefully, you will find FEC is not supported even with external flash. So here is an example of change of mind by the Canon marketing people.
 
satelite???? they are not killing machines..they are for communication...

maybe you watched too much James Bond movies like Golden eye...
But at least, in the Far East, people build toys, cameras,
computers and cars, to improve quality of life and not for violence.

Well ... I didn't start the insulting with the "made in china toys"
thing.
At least China/Taiwan has ability to make one, I doubt the USA can
even make one as cheap or as good the 300D.
We make satellites, military hardware and the best communications
gear in the world.

While you can debate whether the US could build an AFFORDABLE
digital camera, there is no question that this country has the
technical know how.
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
i feel that i should contribute...;)

-americans are violent and agressive by nature. it is in their
genetic structure. america (as we know it today) was founded by a
group of european criminals and conquers, who had the courage, will
and physical means to destroy native people in order to gain
financial benefits & avoid court. this happened just a few hundred
years ago, so it is a well known and recorded fact.
amazing how the country evolved so fast into a civilized country...I wonder what's stoping some others...

this is the
reason there is only one nation in the world that has ever used
atomic bomb. and this is the same reason why they so merrily hop
across the globe bashing others. but, you cannot blame them for it.
was there any other options? I always wonder what would have hapened if the atomic bomb was not used then...it was a pitty to use it..when I think of all those poor people down there walking about their dayly business, not suspecting a bit that this was their last breath of air...surely horrible and it gives me the shiver...

They did attack first though. One must learn that it is a bit futile to attack the USA...they don't just forget it..they reply. what should a country do when it is attacked?
they cannot help it. instead, you should try to find ways to deal
with america the way that they don´t feel the need for agression.
That'S common sense with any country.
that way every one of us can influence on their future generations
and make them breed calmer, more peaceful people who rely more on
cooperation between nations and not on brute force.
As long as all countries agree to that...that should work. oh oh...why do I have the feeling not every countries will agree?
-communism, on the other hand, is a pretty beautiful thought. it is
a pity that no nation has managed to use it the way it was meant to
be used. so, communists are selfish, power-hungy and dangerous too.
The problem with this system is that people did not had any hope of a better life..no motivation at work either..the way the human nature is..it is probably impossible to use that system and make the people happy with it.
actually, i might just as well bash the rest, too. and that indeed
is my point here. and since we all are just as big idiots we might
as well drop the whole sublect and consentrate on cameras.
that'S common sense too :)
i know a few nice americans personally. and a few chinese, too. i
hang with them and like both. i just don´t like the way the world
is run. gee, maybe i should run it...;=)
scary...
OK, let's stick to photographic topics now :-)
Lets see...How many people did the Communist murder?
--
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems
longer -- Albert Einstein
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
Yes, 99% of the communication and cellphone technologies are originated from military research, and then commerciallized later.

The GPS we used in car nagivation is also used to pinpoint Iraqi buildings for the US missiles.

What did you think the US used to take spy pictures of Iraqi army transporting WMD? A spy satelite.

Even the Internet started as a defense project by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

Here you go :-)
maybe you watched too much James Bond movies like Golden eye...
But at least, in the Far East, people build toys, cameras,
computers and cars, to improve quality of life and not for violence.

Well ... I didn't start the insulting with the "made in china toys"
thing.
At least China/Taiwan has ability to make one, I doubt the USA can
even make one as cheap or as good the 300D.
We make satellites, military hardware and the best communications
gear in the world.

While you can debate whether the US could build an AFFORDABLE
digital camera, there is no question that this country has the
technical know how.
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND,
Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
so we all benifit from military research.
The GPS we used in car nagivation is also used to pinpoint Iraqi
buildings for the US missiles.

What did you think the US used to take spy pictures of Iraqi army
transporting WMD? A spy satelite.

Even the Internet started as a defense project by the Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

Here you go :-)
maybe you watched too much James Bond movies like Golden eye...
But at least, in the Far East, people build toys, cameras,
computers and cars, to improve quality of life and not for violence.

Well ... I didn't start the insulting with the "made in china toys"
thing.
At least China/Taiwan has ability to make one, I doubt the USA can
even make one as cheap or as good the 300D.
We make satellites, military hardware and the best communications
gear in the world.

While you can debate whether the US could build an AFFORDABLE
digital camera, there is no question that this country has the
technical know how.
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND,
Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
sorry, i didn’t have time to follow up forum lately but it looks like my earlier (unfortunate) comment about "china made toy" triggered some discussion...

anyway, I didn’t want to offend anyone but I used that comparison to describe the look and feel and overall quality of the housing of the 300D from my personal pov. I know that 300D is great camera and takes excellent pictures but it feels cheap like for a 1000$ for my personal taste...

When I think about it now I could also use some other comparison to better describe 300D plastic housing....e.g. plastix quality of American car, feels like Chrysler dashboard, looks like KIA car inside, feels like LADA steering wheel, or looks like china made toy....whatever.
 
1) DR has no FEC menu control and will never have for marketing
reasons.
I totally disagree with your point no 1.

First, almost all of the 10D user knows, the internal flash is only
for backup. If one need to take proper flash photography, one will
have to get an external flash.
were not talking about 10D users here..but 300d Users...many people who will buy the 300d would not have bougth the 10D. The 10D is oriented more toward a prosumer market whereas the 10D is more oriented toward a professional market...as a backup camera for the 1D maybe.

Anyway...chances are that many 300D users will use the onboard flash as the main flash..just like me.
However, DR has a hotshoe adaptor and will accept external flash,
and there are many external flash units will let one sets FEC on
the flash. So there is absolutely no difference from a
photographer's standpoint.

Therefore, the only difference is when the internal flash is used.
If Canon has enabled FEC on DR, how many potential 10D buyers, do
you think, is going to choose DR instead because the internal
flash now has FEC? Surely, this number must be 100 times smaller
than the potential loss of sales and returns due to the
underexposed E-TTL problem.
not so sure about that one.
Canon is a smart marketing company, surely they can see the logic,
and abandon the age old tradition of "no FEC on any Rebel camers"
faster yes..smarter? we'll see if other companies follow their footsteps.

--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
it is inconsistant. sometimes it wont kick in at all when a track a bird..sometimes it will kick in just with the camera shake!
2) DR has no way to switch from ISO in sports mode for marketing
reasons.
Joao Roberto wrote:

Unless you personally feel that you'll "never be better" than you
are now, you'll outgrow the need for using this mode. It simply
enforces short shutter speeds, which you can do via Tv mode. Yes,
this mode also forces AI Servo, but tracking your subject for a
second or two prior to shooting will cause the DRebel to switch to
continuous focusing in any Creative mode, too.
This should happen but doesn't consistently if at all. I've been
able to force AI Servo in Tv mode with short lenses like the 50mm
by focuing on an outstretetched hand and moving it towards me but
I've been trying to get that AI Servo to kick in shooting hockey
with my 135mm Prime and forget it. Hasn't happened by itself yet.

That's why I'm hoping this will be fixed in upcoming firmware
upgrades.

(I can hope can't I?)

Scott.
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 

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