Reading mode: Light Dark

My own A1 ISO tests

Go to last post
O

Otto Curda

Active member
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
Location
Charlotte, NC, US
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9 feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using "Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800 produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial, IMO.
 
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
I also think there is noice in my A1 but I don't have anything to compare with because it's my first digicam. One of the things that bother me is that I can't use the flash with ISO100 and get minimum amount of noice. The camera automatically use IS200 when the flash is up.

I think there is severe noice in photos taken in low light. On all other points the A1 is magnificant. The noice is no problem in proper lightning or outdoors.
 
Rather than setting the camera to Auto ISO, set it to ISO 100 specifically.

Andy
Dennis Persson said:
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
I also think there is noice in my A1 but I don't have anything to
compare with because it's my first digicam. One of the things that
bother me is that I can't use the flash with ISO100 and get minimum
amount of noice. The camera automatically use IS200 when the flash
is up.

I think there is severe noice in photos taken in low light. On all
other points the A1 is magnificant. The noice is no problem in
proper lightning or outdoors.
Click to expand...
 
Yes I can say to you that your A1 does have any problem.
Surprising ?
I have a D7i and similar results.
Some comments :

First
Set the sharpness to "soft" and redo exactly the same tests.
You should get better results.
I set this on my D7i each time I need to shoot 400 or 800 isos.

Second
Before to say that is bad, can you define what you expect from your camera?

If you try some 4x6 inches prints at 800 isos, you will see that the results are very good (non professional usage).

Third

The A1 has a small CCD, not a large one as true DSLR (Nikon D100, Pentax istd, Canon 10D, etc.).
All the camera with small CCD give the same results at 800 isos.
Compare the noise with camera that you can compare.

Fourth
You may think that I am crazy saying all that.

But I don't dislike the noise as people who generaly consider noise as a fault because better CCDs make less noise.
I also can say you that I shoot at 1600 isos with my D7i !!!
Here is a link (in French, sorry) which give samples for 1600 isos.
Note all the pictures are took with sharpness=soft.
http://fr.schneider.free.fr/1600/1.htm
Zz
 
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
Hi Otto

On my monitor (LCD) the 100 iso sample is ok and the 200 just acceptable.

If they were all taken in program mode how did you manage to use the same F2.8 at 1/50 secs for each photo?

--
Roger
 
Dear Otto

Look at this site which is form another thread in this forum. All photos taken with the A1. Look especialle at the 800 ISO pics. from the night club. Then consider: what is most important, taking test photos of an armchair or taking real life photos?
http://photos.jonread.com/Cuba
Ole
 
My point is that a $1000 camera should produce useable images up to at least ISO 400. I would also expect ISO 100 images to be essentially noise-free, which is not always the case with the A1, even in outdoor scenes.

Of course, everyone has a different tolerance for noise, I guess. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
 
Good point....I wondered the same thing. This is what the camera gave me, I did not adjust exposure at all.

-------------------------------
RJD said:
On my monitor (LCD) the 100 iso sample is ok and the 200 just
acceptable.

If they were all taken in program mode how did you manage to use
the same F2.8 at 1/50 secs for each photo?

--
Roger
Click to expand...
 
Since you ask, the night club images, although reduced, look pretty bad noise-wise. I have taken similar images with my old Oly C-2100UZ before with much less noisy results. The A1 seems to get very "coarse" at ISO 400 and 800.

BTW, that's a very nice gallery. Some spectacular photos in there. Nice job!
Ole said:
Dear Otto
Look at this site which is form another thread in this forum. All
photos taken with the A1. Look especialle at the 800 ISO pics. from
the night club. Then consider: what is most important, taking test
photos of an armchair or taking real life photos?
http://photos.jonread.com/Cuba
Ole
Click to expand...
 
Set ISO to 100 rather than AUTO. At ISO 100, most images from the A1 are excellent. But it is disappointing to see how much degradation there is from going to ISO 200 or higher. Kind of defears the purpose.
Dennis Persson said:
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
I also think there is noice in my A1 but I don't have anything to
compare with because it's my first digicam. One of the things that
bother me is that I can't use the flash with ISO100 and get minimum
amount of noice. The camera automatically use IS200 when the flash
is up.

I think there is severe noice in photos taken in low light. On all
other points the A1 is magnificant. The noice is no problem in
proper lightning or outdoors.
Click to expand...
 
I suspect that is normal for these cameras. You set a hard test - long exposure of a very dark subject. I wish it were not so. However, most pictures I have taken have been OK.

Rather than looking for ways to display noise, I look at all the wonderful pictures that have been posted from this camera, from people such as Geir OVa and Ferenc, to mention just two. These make me want to take better pictures using the camera in ways which I can expect to get good results.

Dark subjects at high iso and long exposure I tend to avoid, just as I avoid backlit subects, situations which cause lens flare, and exposures that are too long for moving children.

My galleries are at http://www.pbase.com/bertramm

I find I need to use Neat Image less with the A1 than with the 7 abd 7i. But it is available and can do a great job in those situations in which you have to use high iso.

Have fun and take lots of pictures.
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
--
Dimage A1, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
 
You're right, and I agree...the A1 does take absolutely gorgeous photos. I'm keeping mine. But I am not about to relent and just ignore an obvious issue with the camera. If nothing else, I want other people to know about it before they plunk down almost $1000 for a camera. If you plan on taking lots of low-light photos, this is DEFINITELY not the camera for you, IMO.

Also, maybe if enough people complain, Minolta will pay attention and make improvements for their future models. I don't understand people who just ignore the facts and still try to convince me that this is somehow my fault. Well, excuse me for wanting a decent low-light performance out of a $1000 digicam.
engbert said:
I suspect that is normal for these cameras. You set a hard test -
long exposure of a very dark subject. I wish it were not so.
However, most pictures I have taken have been OK.

Rather than looking for ways to display noise, I look at all the
wonderful pictures that have been posted from this camera, from
people such as Geir OVa and Ferenc, to mention just two. These
make me want to take better pictures using the camera in ways which
I can expect to get good results.

Dark subjects at high iso and long exposure I tend to avoid, just
as I avoid backlit subects, situations which cause lens flare, and
exposures that are too long for moving children.

My galleries are at http://www.pbase.com/bertramm

I find I need to use Neat Image less with the A1 than with the 7
abd 7i. But it is available and can do a great job in those
situations in which you have to use high iso.

Have fun and take lots of pictures.
Click to expand...
 
There is nothing Minolta or any other manufacturer can do about the noise with a small size 2/3" CCD - at this moment in time. Even the almighty Sony is faltering with their F828 introduction because they tried to squeeze 8MP into the same small sensor and are finding noise to be a major hurdle even at ISO 100! ALL 5MP 2/3" CCD cameras have noise, especially noticable at ISO 400/800. If you can't live with that then you need to buy yourself a DSLR.

To get the best from the A1, or any other advanced amatuer camera (including the DSLR's) you need to know your camera and how to get the best from it. You're complaining about your camera switching to ISO 200 for flash shot? Well, that's what the ISO button is for - set it to 100! Better yet set the WB, contrast, saturation, and anything else to your liking (and best results with your flash) and save it to one of the user programmable settings that you can recall at the touch of a button.

Just because you are capable of looking through the viewfinder and pushing the shutter button doesn't mean you know how to use the camera, especially to its best. If you want to take pictures just for testing, then go ahead and try the different sharpness/contrast/saturation/color space controls for your camera and see what effect (quite large) they have on increasing/decreasing noise. Then use what is best for your type of photography.

Paul
Otto Curda said:
Also, maybe if enough people complain, Minolta will pay attention
and make improvements for their future models. I don't understand
people who just ignore the facts and still try to convince me that
this is somehow my fault. Well, excuse me for wanting a decent
low-light performance out of a $1000 digicam.
engbert said:
I suspect that is normal for these cameras. You set a hard test -
long exposure of a very dark subject. I wish it were not so.
However, most pictures I have taken have been OK.

Rather than looking for ways to display noise, I look at all the
wonderful pictures that have been posted from this camera, from
people such as Geir OVa and Ferenc, to mention just two. These
make me want to take better pictures using the camera in ways which
I can expect to get good results.

Dark subjects at high iso and long exposure I tend to avoid, just
as I avoid backlit subects, situations which cause lens flare, and
exposures that are too long for moving children.

My galleries are at http://www.pbase.com/bertramm

I find I need to use Neat Image less with the A1 than with the 7
abd 7i. But it is available and can do a great job in those
situations in which you have to use high iso.

Have fun and take lots of pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
1. I did not comlain about the camera swithing to ISO 200 - that was someone else.

2. I have owned digicams for the past 5 years and I know what to realistically expect from a digicam. Not saying I am a pro or anything close to that, but I can do more than simly "push the shutter button". However, compared to my previous camera (Olympus C-2100), the A1 has noticably more noise in all shots. BTW, the Oly had no noise reduction.

3. The point is that while ISO 400 and 800 shots are verry noisy, i understand somewhat that this is inherent to small CCD's. Still, I think the A1 seems worse than some other cameras I've seen samples from. However, there should be no pronounced noise at ISO 100 and on many of my shots, there is considerable noise in darker areas. Compared to my previous camera, it's no contest. This was even noted in the conclusion at Steve's Digicams, so I know I'm not the only one who sees this.

All I'm saying is that I expected better performance from a $1000 so-called "dSLR" (according to Minolta). Maybe I'm being unreasonable, as some of you seem to suggest. All I know is that I've taken over 200 shots with the camera in the past few days and the problem appears consistently enough to make my conclusions. I love the camera and will keep mine, but I am not going to pretend like everything is peachy, becasue it clearly is not.

Otto
PDM said:
There is nothing Minolta or any other manufacturer can do about the
noise with a small size 2/3" CCD - at this moment in time. Even the
almighty Sony is faltering with their F828 introduction because
they tried to squeeze 8MP into the same small sensor and are
finding noise to be a major hurdle even at ISO 100! ALL 5MP 2/3"
CCD cameras have noise, especially noticable at ISO 400/800. If you
can't live with that then you need to buy yourself a DSLR.

To get the best from the A1, or any other advanced amatuer camera
(including the DSLR's) you need to know your camera and how to get
the best from it. You're complaining about your camera switching to
ISO 200 for flash shot? Well, that's what the ISO button is for -
set it to 100! Better yet set the WB, contrast, saturation, and
anything else to your liking (and best results with your flash) and
save it to one of the user programmable settings that you can
recall at the touch of a button.

Just because you are capable of looking through the viewfinder and
pushing the shutter button doesn't mean you know how to use the
camera, especially to its best. If you want to take pictures just
for testing, then go ahead and try the different
sharpness/contrast/saturation/color space controls for your camera
and see what effect (quite large) they have on
increasing/decreasing noise. Then use what is best for your type of
photography.

Paul
Click to expand...
 
I have had a 7Hi for 9 months which, as I believe, has the same CCD and lens as the A1.

Noise level and hot pixels are exactly what I expected, not perfect, but very acceptable provided I set and use the camera realistically. Actually, considering all the fantastic features it has, that "problem" does not bother me at all.

I'm glad about all the complaints here about the A1, since this may lead to an even bigger price drop and I'll quickly upgrade my 7Hi for the A1, for me an even more fantastic camera !!!
 
Otto,

Here is what I would do ...

1. You pictures are underexposed. I assume the window blinds to the right of the dog are white. In the ISO 100 picture they are registering around 170 out of a possible 255.

2. Your shutter speeds are all 1/50 second ... too slow to not get effects from the incandescent lighting.

3. It looks like your white balance was set on Auto???

4. You really shouldn't need AS when shooting with flash.

Here's what I would do ...

1. Set the WB to Flash

2. Set the Shutter speed to 1/1000 ( let's ignore the ambient light)

3. Set the Flash compensation to +1 EV for starters.

4. Set Aperture to f/2.8

By the way, here's the histogram for the ISO100 part of your image. The peak on the right should be way father to the right. In this case you needed more flash power.



Take one shot and inspect the histogram ... you should have that spike on the right really close to the right edge of the histogram. If not try more flash compensation, if it's overexposed try using less compensation.

Oh Yeah! TURN OFF THE AS ;-) It warms up the CCD and creates more thermal noise. It's generally not needed for flash photography.

Enjoy your camera and take a lot of pictures. ;-)

cheers,
Rick Stirling
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
--

cheers,
Rick Stirling
http://www.rickster.net/gallery/albums.php
 
lcmacedo said:
I have had a 7Hi for 9 months which, as I believe, has the same CCD
and lens as the A1.
Noise level and hot pixels are exactly what I expected, not
perfect, but very acceptable provided I set and use the camera
realistically. Actually, considering all the fantastic features it
has, that "problem" does not bother me at all.
I'm glad about all the complaints here about the A1, since this may
lead to an even bigger price drop and I'll quickly upgrade my 7Hi
for the A1, for me an even more fantastic camera !!!
Click to expand...
 
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
Hi Otto

Possibly you used fill flash at the extreem extent of its range which is why there appears to be little evidence of flash in the pictures. Also you probably would have achieved a better result not using any flash at all with the available light. Using the on board fill flash in these conditions is not one of the 7 series strong points. Its OK when you are about 3 - 6 feet away. Have you tried to use rear sync.
Richard
 
Hi Otto,

Noise reduction only works on longer exposures so don't expect it to do anything. I agree with many of the comments, change the WB set sharpening to soft...

I use these setting in low light--works pretty good, nice prints: aperture priority 3.5,flash, manual WB, soft sharpening and AS on.

The A1 is not a digital SLR or much less a film camera. You probably can forget about ISO 800 for the most part.
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
 
I noticed that about noise reduction. I wonder if it would help at higher shutter speeds as well and if so, how hard it would be for Minolta to expand the NR option to perhaps engage more often at the owner's choosing? Just a thought....I know it comes at expense of sharpness, but for the times when I'm using the camera for casual shooting, I would reallly prefer a good out-of-camera photo as opposed to having to do a lot of post processing.

I didn't expect much at ISO 400 and 800, but it seems to me that there is much noise even at ISO 100 & 200, especially in underexposed areas. It's just something I was not used to in my previous camera. OK, I'll shut up now...been discussed many times before ;)

Otto

-------------------------------
mark moe said:
I use these setting in low light--works pretty good, nice prints:
aperture priority 3.5,flash, manual WB, soft sharpening and AS on.

The A1 is not a digital SLR or much less a film camera. You
probably can forget about ISO 800 for the most part.
Otto Curda said:
Took a series of pictures in a fairly dark room using flash. Used
Program mode with default settings, the only parameter changed was
ISO value. Noise reduction was "on", as was AS. These were handheld
at wide angle. Mode used was 5 MP @ Fine. The subject is about 8-9
feet away. The images were cropped in Photoshop and saved using
"Maximum" quality.

As you'll see, ISO 200 has rather severe noise, and ISO 400/800
produced esseentially unusable images. So, is this normal or is it
just my camera? Or did I do something wrong (again)?

http://www.uniplet.com/ocurda/isotest.jpg

Anyone that says there is no noise problem on my A1 is in denial,
IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top