V1 apeture control

The DSC-V1 only has a very small apeture range (F2.0 to F4.0) so how do I control the depth-of-field with my V1?

Cheers.

....Actually, The apeture range is only 2.8 to 4.0

Using Macro mode, using physical range with zoom, and the V1 goes up to F8! So.... it's a matter of what you want small DOF or a very wide DOF! It also depends on your focal length alongside the aperture!

Also: postprocessing, in PS CS you can add a magnificent Lens blur if you want small DOF!

Hope that helps!

DogBoy73 said:

....Actually, The apeture range is only 2.8 to 4.0

Click to expand...

--

• Michiel de Brieder -

V1.... former Dimage S404 soon to have an F828
[blink] [blink] was that a laser assisted focus???
http://www.pbase.com/giel

As I understand it, Macro mode will always give a small/narrow depth of field because the subject matter is so close to the lens. How then do I achive a narrow depth of field if, for example, the subject matter is maybe 5 or 6ft away & I want the backround to be out of focus to pick-out the subject?

mdebrieder said:

Using Macro mode, using physical range with zoom, and the V1 goes
up to F8! So.... it's a matter of what you want small DOF or a very
wide DOF! It also depends on your focal length alongside the
aperture!

Also: postprocessing, in PS CS you can add a magnificent Lens blur
if you want small DOF!

Click to expand...

According to this http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscv1/page2.asp the V1 only goes up to F4.0. Is this incorrect?

I don't know exactly what the reason for that is, but that always seem to be the case that those values aren't what you see in the camera. It has to do with digital camera's if I'm correct (not sure on this one though).
M

DogBoy73 said:

According to this
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscv1/page2.asp the V1 only
goes up to F4.0. Is this incorrect?

Click to expand...

--

• Michiel de Brieder -

V1.... former Dimage S404 soon to have an F828
[blink] [blink] was that a laser assisted focus???
http://www.pbase.com/giel

You can use the smallest F value... and maybe use a little PhotoShop to add some more blurring if you want to.

Michiel

DogBoy73 said:

mdebrieder said:

Using Macro mode, using physical range with zoom, and the V1 goes
up to F8! So.... it's a matter of what you want small DOF or a very
wide DOF! It also depends on your focal length alongside the
aperture!

Also: postprocessing, in PS CS you can add a magnificent Lens blur
if you want small DOF!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

• Michiel de Brieder -

V1.... former Dimage S404 soon to have an F828
[blink] [blink] was that a laser assisted focus???
http://www.pbase.com/giel

that you were looking at. That line just indicates the maximum aperture at wide angle, and the maximum aperture at full telephoto.

Look a bit further down the page under "Aperture priority" to see what's available for you to choose in this mode and manual:

Aperture priority
• Wide: F2.8, F3.2, F3.5, F4.0, F4.5, F5.0, F5.6, F6.3, F7.1, F8.0
• Tele: F4.0, F4.5, F5.0, F5.6, F6.3, F7.1, F8.0

Mike

DogBoy73 said:

According to this
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscv1/page2.asp the V1 only
goes up to F4.0. Is this incorrect?

Click to expand...

DogBoy73 said:

According to this
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscv1/page2.asp the V1 only
goes up to F4.0. Is this incorrect?

Click to expand...

The information is correct; your interpretation is incorrect.

Phil is reporting the range of maximum apertures from shortest to longest focal length. Note the title, "Lens Max. Aperture." This is the standard way for reporting apertures for zoom lenses with variable max apertures. For example, look at Canoga Camera's list of Nikon zoom lenses:

http://www.canogacamera.com/e/env/00014ufF3KQV0I4FSo2B9l7/menupages/nikonlenses.html?link=-DD-/price_list/nikon_af_lenszoom.html

The smallest aperture, which seems to be the thing you care about here, typically is not reported prominently. However, you can verify that for the V1 it is indeed F/8 by scrolling down and noting the range of apertures permitted in aperture priority mode on the page you cite above.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/

Cheers for clearing that up guys. I understand what's going on now.

Any more tips on using Zoom/Apeture to control depth-of-field on subjects that are more than a few feet away? I'm still a bit unsure as to how to achive this result with the camera. From what I understand I think that using a smaller apeture number (i.e. bigger opening) & also using telephoto to zoom into my subject will give me a narrower/smaller depth-of-field. Is this correct?

I could use PS to add blurring but that seems a bit like cheating especially when I've bought a camera that has the sort of manual control that should allow me to achive this sort of image.

Thanks again.

DogBoy73 said:

Cheers for clearing that up guys. I understand what's going on now.

Any more tips on using Zoom/Apeture to control depth-of-field on
subjects that are more than a few feet away? I'm still a bit unsure
as to how to achive this result with the camera. From what I
understand I think that using a smaller apeture number (i.e. bigger
opening) & also using telephoto to zoom into my subject will give
me a narrower/smaller depth-of-field. Is this correct?

Click to expand...

This is what you need to do, but with the V1 your options are somewhat limited due to the small sensor (which requires a very short focal length lens) and the fact that the widest aperture with this camera is still pretty small.

You might experiment with wide angle some since the max aperture is bigger at wide angle on the V1.

DogBoy73 said:

I could use PS to add blurring but that seems a bit like cheating
especially when I've bought a camera that has the sort of manual
control that should allow me to achive this sort of image.

Click to expand...

PS can produce somewhat convincing results in some cases. Since it doesn't have access to a three dimensional model of the scene, it can't produce the same kind of blur that would result from optics.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/

DOF depends on a few things

1- the sensor size is gonna kill you right off the bat. the small sensor inherently creates a larger DOF, putting you at a grave disadvantage if you want a blurry background or at a big advantage if you're trying to increase DOF in macro shots. Your only real option to improve this aspect is to get a camera with a larger sensor. The 717 has a larger sensor and it is easier to get these type of blurred backgrounds with it. The 1.6x factor DSLRs have even larger sensors that allow greater capability than the 717, and finally full size sensor DSLRs like the D1s and the Kodak are equivalent to the DOF you can achieve with 35mm film.

2- focal length. Wide angle settings inherently have a much larger DOF than telephoto. Zoooooooooom in a bit for blurrier backgrounds.

3- distance to subject. This kinda fights with #2 - The closer you are to the subject, the shallower the DOF, but I get pretty good results by backing up a little bit and zooming in fairly tight.

4- aperture. a smaller number is a larger aperture and produces a shallower DOF. a larger number is a smaller aperture and increases the DOF. Many people think that simply picking a larger aperture should obliterate the backgrounds in their pics. This is simply not the case as the DOF is greatly dependant on ALL the factors listed here.

Hope this helps!
-Wow

--
my galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/wowarning/galleries

The new Lens blur in PhotoShop CS achieves STUNNING results IMHO

Michiel

Ron Parr said:

DogBoy73 said:

Cheers for clearing that up guys. I understand what's going on now.

Any more tips on using Zoom/Apeture to control depth-of-field on
subjects that are more than a few feet away? I'm still a bit unsure
as to how to achive this result with the camera. From what I
understand I think that using a smaller apeture number (i.e. bigger
opening) & also using telephoto to zoom into my subject will give
me a narrower/smaller depth-of-field. Is this correct?

Click to expand...

This is what you need to do, but with the V1 your options are
somewhat limited due to the small sensor (which requires a very
short focal length lens) and the fact that the widest aperture with
this camera is still pretty small.

You might experiment with wide angle some since the max aperture is
bigger at wide angle on the V1.

Member said:

I could use PS to add blurring but that seems a bit like cheating
especially when I've bought a camera that has the sort of manual
control that should allow me to achive this sort of image.

Click to expand...

PS can produce somewhat convincing results in some cases. Since it
doesn't have access to a three dimensional model of the scene, it
can't produce the same kind of blur that would result from optics.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/

Click to expand...

--

• Michiel de Brieder -

V1.... former Dimage S404 soon to have an F828
[blink] [blink] was that a laser assisted focus???
http://www.pbase.com/giel

As Wow mentions below, you're going to be somewhat hamstrung by the sensor size. But life is all about compromise. The V1 and its ilk give you performance/size advantages undreamt of just a few years ago. Moving to a larger sensor necessitates larger lenses, a fact that too many people bemoaning the likely noise levels in the F828, for example, conveniently forget. FWIW if you get into DSLRs you'll find that no lens in the top echelon of quality offers a zoom range of more than 3x, with several important ones staying well short of that.

So against the advantages offered by the V1 -- versatility in a small, highly portable package -- you have the tradeoff of greater DOF (which can be advantageous quite often). Should anyone then regard it as "cheating" to apply selective blurring in PS? Not for a moment! That's now a completely legitimate part of the overall photographic creative process, no less so than any of the darkroom tweaks that have been used since photography began by way of optimising and altering ex-camera images.

Mike

DogBoy73 said:

I could use PS to add blurring but that seems a bit like cheating
especially when I've bought a camera that has the sort of manual
control that should allow me to achive this sort of image.

Click to expand...

Wowarning said:

DOF depends on a few things
1- the sensor size is gonna kill you right off the bat. the small
sensor inherently creates a larger DOF, putting you at a grave
disadvantage if you want a blurry background or at a big advantage
if you're trying to increase DOF in macro shots. Your only real
option to improve this aspect is to get a camera with a larger
sensor. The 717 has a larger sensor and it is easier to get these
type of blurred backgrounds with it. The 1.6x factor DSLRs have
even larger sensors that allow greater capability than the 717, and
finally full size sensor DSLRs like the D1s and the Kodak are
equivalent to the DOF you can achieve with 35mm film.

Click to expand...

A small sensor size inherently creaters shallower DOF by forcing you to us a smaller circle of confusion.

When you switch to a smaller sensor and keep the same image composition, you have two competing factors. You (1) get a smaller CoC and (2) are forced to use a shorter lens. The first decreases DOF, while the second increases it. The effect of a shorter focal length is greater than the effect of the smaller CoC, so the overall effect is greater DOF.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/

Well Ron, you just increased MY circle of confusion!! I'm all about the bottom line: little sensor = big DOF. Thanks for the education, I learn more everyday.
-Wow

Ron Parr said:

Wowarning said:

DOF depends on a few things
1- the sensor size is gonna kill you right off the bat. the small
sensor inherently creates a larger DOF, putting you at a grave
disadvantage if you want a blurry background or at a big advantage
if you're trying to increase DOF in macro shots. Your only real
option to improve this aspect is to get a camera with a larger
sensor. The 717 has a larger sensor and it is easier to get these
type of blurred backgrounds with it. The 1.6x factor DSLRs have
even larger sensors that allow greater capability than the 717, and
finally full size sensor DSLRs like the D1s and the Kodak are
equivalent to the DOF you can achieve with 35mm film.

Click to expand...

A small sensor size inherently creaters shallower DOF by forcing
you to us a smaller circle of confusion.

When you switch to a smaller sensor and keep the same image
composition, you have two competing factors. You (1) get a smaller
CoC and (2) are forced to use a shorter lens. The first decreases
DOF, while the second increases it. The effect of a shorter focal
length is greater than the effect of the smaller CoC, so the
overall effect is greater DOF.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/

Click to expand...

--
my galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/wowarning/galleries