Which full frame mirrorless camera has the best high ISO performance?

pyloricantrum · Nov 19, 2021

I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

f1point4andbethere · Nov 19, 2021

All current full frame cameras are more or less equal in the low light noise regard. The real advantage has to do with the added noise reduction processing options that higher resolution will provide. For example, we use DxO PureRAW on weddings that get dark and noisy at our studio, and the results from the A1 and A7RIV when using that software are much better than from the A7III and much much better than the A7SIII.
If you’re not planning to do any sort of processing or noise reduction, they’re all in the same.

inasir1971 · Nov 19, 2021

Photographic Dynamic Range tool at Photons to Photos

Personally I like the high ISO of my A7C (same as A7III). Hopefully the A7IV will match that despite the small bump in MP.

aSevenArr · Nov 19, 2021

pyloricantrum said:
I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

IMHO the A9 (and A9ii) has the best balance of both resolution and high ISO performance.

I'm really not impressed by the high ISO shots that I have seen from the others including the newer higher resolution cameras.

Two recent samples shot in almost total darkness:

Alice732 · Nov 19, 2021

if you want technically the best high ISO performance,

Sigma fp

lattesweden · Nov 19, 2021

Alice732 said:
if you want technically the best high ISO performance,

Sigma fp

Sigma fp is said to be using the Sony IMX410 sensor, same as A7III/A7C (and Z6/Z6II, Pana S1, Leica SL2S). In what way is the fp is better?

Alice732 · Nov 19, 2021

lattesweden said:
Alice732 said:

if you want technically the best high ISO performance,

Sigma fp

Click to expand...

Sigma fp is said to be using the Sony IMX410 sensor, same as A7III/A7C (and Z6/Z6II, Pana S1, Leica SL2S). In what way is the fp is better?

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

In general, floating a sensor on an electromagnetic bearing slightly reduces image quality for various reasons, interference and cooling for example.

Also signal processing, I guess.

Alice732 · Nov 19, 2021

aSevenArr said:
pyloricantrum said:

I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

Click to expand...

IMHO the A9 (and A9ii) has the best balance of both resolution and high ISO performance.

I'm really not impressed by the high ISO shots that I have seen from the others including the newer higher resolution cameras.

Two recent samples shot in almost total darkness:

A9 and A9II have worse image quality than A7III

The stacked circuitry on the back interferes with the sensor.

lattesweden · Nov 19, 2021

Alice732 said:
lattesweden said:

Alice732 said:

if you want technically the best high ISO performance,

Sigma fp

Click to expand...

Sigma fp is said to be using the Sony IMX410 sensor, same as A7III/A7C (and Z6/Z6II, Pana S1, Leica SL2S). In what way is the fp is better?

Click to expand...

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

In general, floating a sensor on an electromagnetic bearing slightly reduces image quality for various reasons, interference and cooling for example.

Also signal processing, I guess.

Ah, interesting, I had missed that the fp measures better at Photonstophotos. I remember that there was a performance drop also from the original non IBIS A7 to the IBIS enabled A7II, those also used the same sensor.

Jacques Cornell · Nov 19, 2021

pyloricantrum said:
I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

I wouldn't put much stock in what you see when viewing DPRs Studio Scene images on the website. Differences that look noticeable on the site simply go away if you download the RAW files and run them through DxO PhotoLab and apply DeepPRIME noise reduction.

I'm a pro event shooter who works in really dim venues on a regular basis. I recently shot networking candids in bat-cave conditions with my a7RIII at f1.4 and ISO 25,600, and I was simply blown away by how clean and detailed this and other images were after applying DeepPRIME, even though I've been using PhotoLab (and Optics Pro before it) for many years. If you shoot a lot of high-ISO photos, investing $219 in PhotoLab 5 Elite will do far more for you than spending thousands of dollars on a new camera. And, if you're not already shooting with bright primes, consider Samyang's f1.8 primes for $300-$400 each or the 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 for right around $500 each. They're really good.

I paid just $3600 for my mint used a7RIII, 18/2.8, 24/1.8, 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 Samyang primes and PhotoLab 5, and I'd wager this combo's image quality at high ISO will utterly destroy any other camera with a bright zoom and Lightroom, regardless of cost.

a7RIII with Samyang 85/1.4 at 1/200, f1.4, ISO 25,600, processed with DxO PhotoLab 5

Keep in mind that the JPEG file on my computer looks even a bit crisper than what you see when viewing the image here on DPR's webpage. The "100%" view on this site is also more like 150%, which makes the image look bigger and grainier than the JPEG on my computer viewed at a true 100%. It was so dark in this venue that the actual scene looked probably 1-2 stops darker to my naked eye than what you see here.

--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos

travelshots_dpr · Nov 20, 2021

It depends on your definition of high ISO. Up to ISO 6400, A7s, A7III, A7rIII are similar when scaled to the same size. Below ISO 6400 the higher resolving cameras even have an advantage. Above ISO 6400, A7s takes the lead.

By the way: DXO PureRAW in deep prime mode often pulls out remarkable results from high ISO images, an improvement of several ISO steps (but it is less appropritae for astro photos). Highly recommended!

Tristimulus · Nov 20, 2021

Alice732 said:
lattesweden said:

Alice732 said:

if you want technically the best high ISO performance,

Sigma fp

Click to expand...

Sigma fp is said to be using the Sony IMX410 sensor, same as A7III/A7C (and Z6/Z6II, Pana S1, Leica SL2S). In what way is the fp is better?

Click to expand...

My A7 is worse than the A7III which are worse than the A7c. So cameras seems to evolve in the right direction. Newer seems to be better than older.

My Canon 6D is exeptional in this regard but the EOS R is more in line with cameras from Sony and other brands. Some odd things are going on deep in the shadow areas (not seen in the data from photonstophotos) but nothing to worry about for general photography.

Alice732 said:
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

In general, floating a sensor on an electromagnetic bearing slightly reduces image quality for various reasons, interference and cooling for example.

For practical purposes the differences are miniscule. When using high ISO (which is basically under exposing and lifting the shadow areas) shoot noise is more problematic.

Very high ISO may save the day but obviously if image quality matter then going for moderately high ISOs usually a better way.

Do not quite understand why one should go for very high ISO if image quality really matter. The highest ISO settings are for at least getting something under severe conditions.

Alice732 said:
Also signal processing, I guess.

Killing noise on chip is a great step in the right direction. Intoducing colorful circles deep in the under exposed shadows areas seems like a step in the wrong direction. At least if very high ISO performance matter...

duncang · Nov 20, 2021

Jacques Cornell said:
pyloricantrum said:

I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't put much stock in what you see when viewing DPRs Studio Scene images on the website. Differences that look noticeable on the site simply go away if you download the RAW files and run them through DxO PhotoLab and apply DeepPRIME noise reduction.

I'm a pro event shooter who works in really dim venues on a regular basis. I recently shot networking candids in bat-cave conditions with my a7RIII at f1.4 and ISO 25,600, and I was simply blown away by how clean and detailed this and other images were after applying DeepPRIME, even though I've been using PhotoLab (and Optics Pro before it) for many years. If you shoot a lot of high-ISO photos, investing $219 in PhotoLab 5 Elite will do far more for you than spending thousands of dollars on a new camera. And, if you're not already shooting with bright primes, consider Samyang's f1.8 primes for $300-$400 each or the 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 for right around $500 each. They're really good.

I paid just $3600 for my mint used a7RIII, 18/2.8, 24/1.8, 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 Samyang primes and PhotoLab 5, and I'd wager this combo's image quality at high ISO will utterly destroy any other camera with a bright zoom and Lightroom, regardless of cost.

a7RIII with Samyang 85/1.4 at 1/200, f1.4, ISO 25,600, processed with DxO PhotoLab 5

Keep in mind that the JPEG file on my computer looks even a bit crisper than what you see when viewing the image here on DPR's webpage. The "100%" view on this site is also more like 150%, which makes the image look bigger and grainier than the JPEG on my computer viewed at a true 100%. It was so dark in this venue that the actual scene looked probably 1-2 stops darker to my naked eye than what you see here.

I had an a7riii and it was great at high iso but the A1 is pretty much the same. If you can avoid cropping the image then the a9, a1 and a7riii are basically identical as best I can tell.

Never would have contemplated going above 1600 not too long ago but now I seldom go down to 1600 !

DxO PL5 does wonders.

Can't say I have had the occasion to use 25,600 - but if we had more owls...

No account anymore · Nov 20, 2021

pyloricantrum said:
I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

Relevant question would be:

How do you use the dynamic range of your camera?
How high ISO values are you talking about?
What about quantum efficiency and bandwith sensitivity? Do you do deep sky astrophotography?

ISO performance is tied to exposure, much more than the ISO value set in the camera, and also how you process your raw files. Doing ISO-invariance exposures? Or plain work within a limited dynamic range, like sports and other kinds of action?

inasir1971 · Nov 20, 2021

Alice732 said:
lattesweden said:

Alice732 said:

if you want technically the best high ISO performance,

Sigma fp

Click to expand...

Sigma fp is said to be using the Sony IMX410 sensor, same as A7III/A7C (and Z6/Z6II, Pana S1, Leica SL2S). In what way is the fp is better?

Click to expand...

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

In general, floating a sensor on an electromagnetic bearing slightly reduces image quality for various reasons, interference and cooling for example.

Also signal processing, I guess.

Very informative - thanks. I didn't realize that IBIS affected it but I guess this explains why the Nikon D6 is a bit behind to the D5 (around 1/3 stop).

lattesweden · Nov 20, 2021

Jacques Cornell said:
pyloricantrum said:

I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't put much stock in what you see when viewing DPRs Studio Scene images on the website. Differences that look noticeable on the site simply go away if you download the RAW files and run them through DxO PhotoLab and apply DeepPRIME noise reduction.

I'm a pro event shooter who works in really dim venues on a regular basis. I recently shot networking candids in bat-cave conditions with my a7RIII at f1.4 and ISO 25,600, and I was simply blown away by how clean and detailed this and other images were after applying DeepPRIME, even though I've been using PhotoLab (and Optics Pro before it) for many years. If you shoot a lot of high-ISO photos, investing $219 in PhotoLab 5 Elite will do far more for you than spending thousands of dollars on a new camera. And, if you're not already shooting with bright primes, consider Samyang's f1.8 primes for $300-$400 each or the 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 for right around $500 each. They're really good.

I paid just $3600 for my mint used a7RIII, 18/2.8, 24/1.8, 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 Samyang primes and PhotoLab 5, and I'd wager this combo's image quality at high ISO will utterly destroy any other camera with a bright zoom and Lightroom, regardless of cost.

a7RIII with Samyang 85/1.4 at 1/200, f1.4, ISO 25,600, processed with DxO PhotoLab 5

Keep in mind that the JPEG file on my computer looks even a bit crisper than what you see when viewing the image here on DPR's webpage. The "100%" view on this site is also more like 150%, which makes the image look bigger and grainier than the JPEG on my computer viewed at a true 100%. It was so dark in this venue that the actual scene looked probably 1-2 stops darker to my naked eye than what you see here.

I shot quite many low light club events (think discotheque environment), mostly without flash and so having to use high ISOs up to 25.600 and often shadow push on top of that and I agree that the latest DXO Photolab just blows anything else out of the water.

I have shot a combo of my A7RII and A9 some years ago, then went to an A7III/A9 combo and now I use A7C/A9. Lenses have mostly been native f1.4 - f1.8 primes.

I have used DXO Photolab since 2013 (when it had another name) and the noise reduction have always been at the top. Topaz Labs Denoise AI came close some year ago but the latest DXO Photolab really jumped up in noise cleaning.

At the latest event I did a portrait style shot with one of the persons there since there was such a cool background. I shot it in the available light, many shots at 12.800 and pushed shadows in the edit. Cleaned in DXO Photolab 5 deep prime and outputted DNG and then into my regular Adobe flow where I edited. The end result is actually not far from studio quality. It is quite amazing.

--
Best regards
/Anders
*********************************************************************
* Mirrorless, mirrorless on the wall, say which is the best camera of them all?
* Why don't I get a manual in Manual mode?
* Come to the Sony side, we have lenses...
*********************************************************************
Some of my images:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65325637

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64169208

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64221482

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65120847

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65121520

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Article about how to FTP-transfer, edit & share RAW-images wireless out in the field:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4609147

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Timeline over all mirrorless autofocus fullframe cameras:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65636058

*********************************************************************
Article about Sony EVF/LCD modes:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65550258

lattesweden · Nov 20, 2021

duncang said:
I had an a7riii and it was great at high iso but the A1 is pretty much the same. If you can avoid cropping the image then the a9, a1 and a7riii are basically identical as best I can tell.

I have used A7RII, A9, A7III and A7C in low light up to 25.600 plus shadow push and I can't see any real differences.

duncang said:
DxO PL5 does wonders.

Yes, it is amazing. I remember the first time the images came out from it, my jaw actually dropped. I was used already to how good the previous versions was, but the 5 upgrade really pushed the cleaning level up.

It was some time ago that I had my A7RII with me at an event so I haven't used it side by side with my 24 Mpix bodys in Photolab 5 cleaning. Some reports says that it does even better on high MP bodys. I need to test that when I get to it, but I still don't want more than 24 Mpix from my events really, the files are quite many and high MP ones eats storage and slow editing down, but it would be good to know.

All Bushs Fault · Nov 20, 2021

pyloricantrum said:
I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

Low light camera Google search

Djehuty · Nov 20, 2021

pyloricantrum said:
I have been enjoying my A7RIII, both for resolution and high ISO performance, and was wondering how it stacks up against the 'best' high ISO-performing FF mirrorless cameras. Based on my viewing of the studio scene comparison tool, the A7s, A7III, Nikon Z6/Z6II, and Panasonic S1, and (most of all) Panasonic S1H seem to be quite good at high ISO as well. Anyone have any first-hand experience with a mirrorless camera whose ISO performance blew them away?

Are you talking about video or stills?

For stills, they are all the same, relatively, 61mp cropped to 24 or downsized to 24 should yield similar noise levels, perhaps more advantage to higher MP cameras due to interpolation.
For video, pretty much the A7S series for low light but they are all similar if there's enough light.

Lan · Nov 20, 2021

Depends on whether you're shooting in JPEG or raw?

Most modern full-frame sensors are very similar in terms of raw performance.

Every manufacturer's JPEG engine processes JPEGs differently though; and even different generations of camera using the same sensor can perform differently for that reason.

I'd say your choice of post-processing software is more significant if you're shooting raw. I recommend DxO PhotoLab v5; 30 day free trial available from the DxO website. Their Black Friday sale apparently starts in just under two days time, and that's the best time to buy.

Which full frame mirrorless camera has the best high ISO performance?

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