Why do many places that dislike photography get so worked up over it?

RJDG14

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Since this is a thread related to photography in general, I feel it best belongs here. Something I have noticed in place such as museums with "no photography" policies from the experience of both me and others is that the staff will sometimes tell you off/bark at you in quite an aggressive manner if they catch you breaking such a policy. I am wondering why this is, when staff usually try and act in most scenarios in quite a polite manner. Acting in an unpleasant manner like this is just going to cause somebody to refuse to return, and at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with most forms of photography (in one such museum where I saw this happen to somebody else, there was no blanket photography ban but certain paintings had a no photography sign stating "copyright reasons"). Many places have more liberal policies to photography now than 10+ years ago - you can now bring cameras into most music venues and many museums, whereas there was a time when most (at least in the UK/Europe; I think some in the US have been fairly liberal on photography for a long time) banned them. I understand having a "no flash" policy, and these tend to be enforced far less rudely. As far as I know, copyrighted works can in practice be photographed (nobody is going to sue you) but the photo may only be for personal use.

There was one place, a model railway in Britain's Cotswold region, where I recall the staff member at the entrance telling people in quite a rude, abrasive manner, "Do not take any pictures!", and despite signs also reminding people, she felt the need to periodically come round and remind people of the policy. Telling people in a polite manner "please would you refrain from taking photographs while in the exhibit" would be far better.

Do you know why photography is something that gets many private places which don't like it very worked up when in most scenarios it doesn't need to be? I only understand getting worked up if it's in an area where photography would present a security risk, which is not the case in privately run attractions.
 
I work in a museum, and our VSA's are well trained in terms of politeness. But there's often a disconnect between the different requirements of different departments with regard to taking photographs. This includes inconsistencies with respect to tripod use, the poorly defined "personal use" clause, and more.

If you are treated rudely, you can almost bet that it is a problem with that particular individual, so you should complain. Of course for very small museums/& etc, you could possibly be dealing with a principal, so then that's on that particular place. Just don't go there, or walk out and request a refund.
 
... staff will sometimes tell you off/bark at you in quite an aggressive manner if they catch you breaking such a policy. I am wondering why this is, when staff usually try and act in most scenarios in quite a polite manner.
If that happens, it could be for a number of reasons. Maybe fatigue. Maybe having a bad day, or just a bad 15 minutes. Maybe feeling burnout from needing to say the same thing to people all day, every day. Maybe less than ideal interpersonal skills. We're all only human.
 
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... staff will sometimes tell you off/bark at you in quite an aggressive manner if they catch you breaking such a policy. I am wondering why this is, when staff usually try and act in most scenarios in quite a polite manner.
If that happens, it could be for a number of reasons. Maybe fatigue. Maybe having a bad day, or just a bad 15 minutes. Maybe feeling burnout after needing to say the same thing to people every day. Maybe less than ideal interpersonal skills. We're all only human.
Maybe some folks are just power crazy!! Security wise, I would imagine any neergooders already know about the security systems.. It could be if you take and show good photos, others will just look at the images and not visit - very unlikely.. Could be the top chair sitter can't take good photos and therefore in spite stops everyone else.. Some older exhibits were damaged over time by the old time flash bulbs.. I doubt LED or other current flashes cause damage.. As Esther Rantzen said "Its More Than My Jobs Worth" ~~~~ Please put that Box Brownie away.. :-D L

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... staff will sometimes tell you off/bark at you in quite an aggressive manner if they catch you breaking such a policy. I am wondering why this is, when staff usually try and act in most scenarios in quite a polite manner.
If that happens, it could be for a number of reasons. Maybe fatigue. Maybe having a bad day, or just a bad 15 minutes. Maybe feeling burnout from needing to say the same thing to people all day, every day. Maybe less than ideal interpersonal skills. We're all only human.
I bet that's a major cause right there. I don't like having photography not allowed, but if there are signs posted and everyone either doesn't read them or simply ignores them, I'd be a bit annoyed too.
 
I learned ways of evading these guys so I could get photos of buildings downtown.

I wrote a blog post about my strategy:

Www.jimhphoto.comhttps://jimhphoto.com/index.php/2020/03/18/dodging-security-guards/
I employ a similar strategy. I look around chose the main angles and shoot. Maybe I can get a few shots in before the I get told to stop.

It is getting easier in the old monuments I like to photograph in Italy, but the tripod is often a no no.

Sometimes in minor monuments they are happy you are taking an interest and they will turn lights and things on for you.
 
It could be financial.

Several years ago I had a nasty experience in Durham cathedral. I didn't notice the NO photography sign. I started snapping with my small compact, no flash, when an overweight lady in purple ceremonial robes started shouting at me, "NO PHOTOGRAPHY."

Later in the cathedral shops I saw a large selection of overpriced books and postcards with outside and inside images of the cathedral.
 
They might want you to buy picture books published by them, or paid for a photo license?

I understand why some staff were so rude about this. Despite of the policy, many visitors still attempe to try their luck and shoot. If it will only happen a few times, I guess the staff might ask you not to politely. But if many many violation repeated everyday, soon or later he/she might lose his temper.

We photographers should behave and when stepping inside any venue where does not allow photo, I shall switch off my camera or even put it back to my camera bag.
 
Certainly all the instagram and other internet posters have added a great deal of stress over the past decade or so.
 
model railway in Britain's Cotswold region, where I recall the staff member at the entrance telling people in quite a rude, abrasive manner, "Do not take any pictures!",

I have been very active in the model railroading world and on the committee to put on the largest model railroad show in Vancouver BC. The above is a very unusual policy, people take photos in droves at the show. Private residence model railways are always photographed by visitors.

You didn't mention sports. I worked as a venue security manager in the Vancouver Winter Olympics - Curling. At large famous sporting events there are massive fees associated with allowing pro photographers in; that fee guarantees exclusivity for the pros. Hence amateurs are restricted to phone cameras etc. No pro gear allowed in except for the chosen few (which can be many).
 
Hello...
Since this is a thread related to photography in general, I feel it best belongs here. Something I have noticed in place such as museums with "no photography" policies from the experience of both me and others is that the staff will sometimes tell you off/bark at you in quite an aggressive manner if they catch you breaking such a policy. I am wondering why this is, when staff usually try and act in most scenarios in quite a polite manner. Acting in an unpleasant manner like this is just going to cause somebody to refuse to return, and at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with most forms of photography (in one such museum where I saw this happen to somebody else, there was no blanket photography ban but certain paintings had a no photography sign stating "copyright reasons"). Many places have more liberal policies to photography now than 10+ years ago - you can now bring cameras into most music venues and many museums, whereas there was a time when most (at least in the UK/Europe; I think some in the US have been fairly liberal on photography for a long time) banned them. I understand having a "no flash" policy, and these tend to be enforced far less rudely. As far as I know, copyrighted works can in practice be photographed (nobody is going to sue you) but the photo may only be for personal use.
When I go somewhere - we all take our phones - abide by rules - and a camera bag ready to shoot.
There was one place, a model railway in Britain's Cotswold region, where I recall the staff member at the entrance telling people in quite a rude, abrasive manner, "Do not take any pictures!", and despite signs also reminding people, she felt the need to periodically come round and remind people of the policy. Telling people in a polite manner "please would you refrain from taking photographs while in the exhibit" would be far better.

Do you know why photography is something that gets many private places which don't like it very worked up when in most scenarios it doesn't need to be? I only understand getting worked up if it's in an area where photography would present a security risk, which is not the case in privately run attractions.
:-)
 
I don't think the gift shop is particularly relevant. Instead it is:
  • The impact of mobile phones
  • The mindset of the person in charge.
Durham Cathedral used to be strongly anti-photography.

Last year we went in expecting the anti-photo Stasi to be patrolling like they have for years. No. All change. Photography welcome since 2019.

https://www.durhamcathedral.co.uk/visit-us/photography

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-47439421

Obviously they can't stop people with phones so they saw sense.

A similar situation was the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge.

For many years photography was banned.

Then a new director took over and it was allowed.

https://fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/visit-us/photography-policy

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I cannot recall the last time I went to any museum or 'old building' and was either not allowed to take photos or shouted at. Don't go places that do not allow photography OR abide by their rules. It's not your museum after all
 
I don't think the gift shop is particularly relevant. Instead it is:
  • The impact of mobile phones
  • The mindset of the person in charge.
Durham Cathedral used to be strongly anti-photography.

Last year we went in expecting the anti-photo Stasi to be patrolling like they have for years. No. All change. Photography welcome since 2019.

https://www.durhamcathedral.co.uk/visit-us/photography

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-47439421

Obviously they can't stop people with phones so they saw sense.

A similar situation was the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge.

For many years photography was banned.

Then a new director took over and it was allowed.

https://fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/visit-us/photography-policy
Their change of heart is too late for me. I never went back.
 
Do you know why photography is something that gets many private places which don't like it very worked up when in most scenarios it doesn't need to be?
What I'd like to know is why some photographers feel like the rules don't apply to them and they feel free to take out their camera anywhere they want, even if it's not welcome.
The point is that in many places open to the public, the "policy against photography" doesn't have any real purpose.

A lot of nonsense got rolling 20 years ago after the 9/11 attack and the end result wasn't so much "security" as the empowering of a lot of mid-level corporate facilities managers who get a buzz from having their low-paid security guards hassle people.

In art museums, I get it. They're trying to create an experience and that can be at odds with crowds of people trying to photograph the friends and kids mugging in front of art pieces. On the other hand, museums need traffic and public support. I'll go with whatever rules they come up with.
 
Offhand, I can think of these:
  • Many people don't know how to cancel their flash or LED light, and irritate other customers
  • Flash or LED light could prematurely age certain works of art
  • It might cut into their profits. For example, I went to a soccer game recently where "professional cameras" were not allowed, unless the photographer had a press pass. Interpretation was left up to the staff's judgment. There was one guideline that the lens could not be longer than 6" when fully extended.
    • Another example: at a church in Poland, (St. Mary's in Krakow) photography is forbidden because:
      • They sell post cards, and
      • They consider it a church first and foremost where people should be able to pray undisturbed by tourists clicking and flashing away
      • This church would not let people in the main part at all, except in paid tours, unless they were there to pray. Then, staff would watch them to make sure they didn't lie.
 
...even when pasted. Or the site is down.
 

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