A big if

I think that a more limited but similarly accurate AF would make a compelling case for a z8
IMHO limiting software features is cheesy. In the old days with AF systems being mostly done in hardware you could credibly sell worse AF systems in cheaper bodies. But nowadays it's just software. It doesn't cost Nikon a dime more to feed the Z9 neural network into a Z8 body.
 
“But the one thing I'm not expecting is a Z9 sensor put into a non-gripped body like the D3/D700.”

The D700 sold about 5-6 times as much as the D3.

Why wouldn’t they want to sell a non-gripped body with the Z9 sensor + Expeed 7, if they can fit it in?

If they charge anything between $3000 and $5500 for it, and *completely* cannibalise Z9 sales they’d still make way more money.

And lots of cameras means lots of lenses...
And don't forget, the more they sell the Stacked Sensors and Expeed7 Processors, the less it will cost them per unit!!!!! the more profit to Nikon....
 
I think that a more limited but similarly accurate AF would make a compelling case for a z8
IMHO limiting software features is cheesy. In the old days with AF systems being mostly done in hardware you could credibly sell worse AF systems in cheaper bodies. But nowadays it's just software. It doesn't cost Nikon a dime more to feed the Z9 neural network into a Z8 body.
Certainly, limiting the AF to fewer recognized targets would be super cheesy.
 
Do we miss anything from the z7 series sensor? No.

More pixels means bigger files, slower read out, worse noise and so on.

the z8 should be what the gfx100s is for gfx100.
What we miss from both the Z6 and Z7 series sensor is readout speed. The readout speed on these sensors is 1/22 sec and 1/16 sec, respectively. And that is too slow for quality continuous AF, reliable tracking, and blackout free bursts.

What we don't know is whether they will take the Z9 sensor down to lower level bodies, or develop a new sensor for those bodies that hits the 1/60 second mark for readout speed.

As I see it, the issue with a non-grip body is that there isn't room for the battery and CPU processors to run that Z9 sensor to full capacity.
Don't forget the Heat Sink Required to keep both running cooler for longer periods.... but the readout speed and processor does not have to run at the same speed as Z9 - therefore less load on the heatsink requirement and smaller body, less load on the batteries as well....
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
The only thing that will stand in the way of a successful Z8 camera like the D850 type scenario is battery life. Like the Z9, one thing that will help a Z8 save battery power is that it doesn't need to drive a mirror (as in a D850) and shutter up and down. I would suggest this mechanical action eats power. However, as it will possibly be a stacked high Mp sensor camera with high frame rates and a large throughput of data so as it can drive the Auto Focus, Artificial Intelligence and high Mp, it may require more battery power than the EN-EL15 can deliver. There is a call for lit up buttons as well. If they can get the camera to do all those things without needing a higher capacity battery, then we will probably get a Z8 type camera.
As I said before, the Z8 configuration - the readout speed and processor does not have to run at the same speed as Z9 - therefore less load on the heatsink requirement and smaller body, less load on the batteries as well....
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
The only thing that will stand in the way of a successful Z8 camera like the D850 type scenario is battery life. Like the Z9, one thing that will help a Z8 save battery power is that it doesn't need to drive a mirror (as in a D850) and shutter up and down. I would suggest this mechanical action eats power.
Nah. It’s the processor constantly reading out the sensor and updating the EVF/display.

The D850, as you point out, did have the mirror and shutter. And DSLRs have much better battery life than MILCs.
However, as it will possibly be a stacked high Mp sensor camera with high frame rates and a large throughput of data so as it can drive the Auto Focus, Artificial Intelligence and high Mp, it may require more battery power than the EN-EL15 can deliver.
I’m pretty sure it can deliver the power. It’ll just run out quicker than a bigger battery.
There is a call for lit up buttons as well.
A couple of LEDs will use up virtually nothing compared to the rest of the system.
If they can get the camera to do all those things without needing a higher capacity battery, then we will probably get a Z8 type camera.
One could always as a vertical grip battery pack :-) At least that would keep the Fro happy :-)
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
 
It doesn't cost Nikon a dime more to feed the Z9 neural network into a Z8 body.
Except the ASIC required to run it called the Expeed7 and a fast sensor... But assuming it already has those...
 
Do we miss anything from the z7 series sensor? No.

More pixels means bigger files, slower read out, worse noise and so on.

the z8 should be what the gfx100s is for gfx100.
What we miss from both the Z6 and Z7 series sensor is readout speed. The readout speed on these sensors is 1/22 sec and 1/16 sec, respectively. And that is too slow for quality continuous AF, reliable tracking, and blackout free bursts.
Totally agree, that's why I hold on to my D850 after playing with the Z7II. it's lacking behind the R6/R5 by a pretty big margin in terms of AF tracking, even my A7RIV has better eye-focus tracking in portrait, and the A7RIV is not even a camera known for fast focusing.
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
The only thing that will stand in the way of a successful Z8 camera like the D850 type scenario is battery life. Like the Z9, one thing that will help a Z8 save battery power is that it doesn't need to drive a mirror (as in a D850) and shutter up and down. I would suggest this mechanical action eats power. However, as it will possibly be a stacked high Mp sensor camera with high frame rates and a large throughput of data so as it can drive the Auto Focus, Artificial Intelligence and high Mp, it may require more battery power than the EN-EL15 can deliver. There is a call for lit up buttons as well. If they can get the camera to do all those things without needing a higher capacity battery, then we will probably get a Z8 type camera.
Battery life ? I don't see how that can be an issue, the Sony A9 and A1 doesn't use a gigantic battery and they sure can do the job just fine. the Canon batter in the R5 is not that huge either. so I don't understand why would the Nikon battery being the road block.
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
Are there any sensors to base it upon? The A7R4 files look like puke in a garbage can (at least compared to its predecessor) so I really don’t think that would work for Nikon.
That's funny, the only reason I am keeping my A7RIV is that 60MP sensor and detail I can get out of the sensor, garbage? LOL. ok, give me some more 80MP garbage I will send my money in. i have a D850 also. so not a Sony fan-boy nor Nikon fan-Boy.
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
Are there any sensors to base it upon? The A7R4 files look like puke in a garbage can (at least compared to its predecessor) so I really don’t think that would work for Nikon.
That's funny, the only reason I am keeping my A7RIV is that 60MP sensor and detail I can get out of the sensor, garbage? LOL. ok, give me some more 80MP garbage I will send my money in. i have a D850 also. so not a Sony fan-boy nor Nikon fan-Boy.
Well if you don't care about colors and you do massive fine art prints I guess the trade off would make sense, or you crop the crap out of your shots. But in that case there's far better cameras for the job. I'm actually happy I left Sony on the A7R3 because it would've felt really bad doing the sensor upgrade to get the other improvements on the A7R4.

 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
The only thing that will stand in the way of a successful Z8 camera like the D850 type scenario is battery life. Like the Z9, one thing that will help a Z8 save battery power is that it doesn't need to drive a mirror (as in a D850) and shutter up and down. I would suggest this mechanical action eats power.
Nah. It’s the processor constantly reading out the sensor and updating the EVF/display.
I think you underestimate how much power is required to drive the shutter mechanism, especially when you are needing it for high fps. The processor would eat the power, though.
The D850, as you point out, did have the mirror and shutter. And DSLRs have much better battery life than MILCs.
However, as it will possibly be a stacked high Mp sensor camera with high frame rates and a large throughput of data so as it can drive the Auto Focus, Artificial Intelligence and high Mp, it may require more battery power than the EN-EL15 can deliver.
I’m pretty sure it can deliver the power.
That should have read, "it may require more battery capacity than the EN-EL15 can deliver". In otherwords, it needs to have a longer life.
It’ll just run out quicker than a bigger battery.
There is a call for lit up buttons as well.
A couple of LEDs will use up virtually nothing compared to the rest of the system.
Lighting using lots of pwer and it won't just be a few, there are many buttons.
If they can get the camera to do all those things without needing a higher capacity battery, then we will probably get a Z8 type camera.
One could always as a vertical grip battery pack :-) At least that would keep the Fro happy :-)
Well, the battery grip option would always be part of a Z8, just as it was for any of the pro spec cameras, like the D850 and Z6/7/6II/7II etc
 
If Nikon does produce a Z8 body to match the D850 I'm pretty sure it would need to break the 60 megapixel barrier regardless of what other features they trickle down from the Z9
The only thing that will stand in the way of a successful Z8 camera like the D850 type scenario is battery life. Like the Z9, one thing that will help a Z8 save battery power is that it doesn't need to drive a mirror (as in a D850) and shutter up and down. I would suggest this mechanical action eats power. However, as it will possibly be a stacked high Mp sensor camera with high frame rates and a large throughput of data so as it can drive the Auto Focus, Artificial Intelligence and high Mp, it may require more battery power than the EN-EL15 can deliver. There is a call for lit up buttons as well. If they can get the camera to do all those things without needing a higher capacity battery, then we will probably get a Z8 type camera.
Battery life ? I don't see how that can be an issue, the Sony A9 and A1 doesn't use a gigantic battery and they sure can do the job just fine. the Canon batter in the R5 is not that huge either. so I don't understand why would the Nikon battery being the road block.
The Z9 and thus the Z8 will have higher speed than both of these and will therefore require more life from the battery.
 
It will probably due or claimed to other factors like smaller battery or a different sensor.

all manufacturers (well not sure about Sony) do software and hardware binning citing some hardware differences. Apple and intel have been a master at that.
 
So, wait... I'm confused why the Z8 is going to be a D850 replacement? Is that not the Z7 series role? For so many reasons I think the Z7 is the D850 replacement (i.e. IQ, nearly/same BSI sensor, price bracket, ISO performance, etc.)


So like, if we get a Z8 that is a Z9 in a Z7/6/5 body, where does that leave the Z7? If the Z8 is a resolution flagship, then the Z7 is a budget resolution camera... but it still needs to be higher in the food chain than the lower-res flagship (the Z6)... unless they start butchering the features of the Z7 series to be more akin to how the Z5 relates to the Z6? I don't know, that just doesn't make sense to me. For the past few years it's been D8xx => Z7x, D7xx => Z6x, and D6xx => Z5x. I feel like a Z7iii would bring the AF improvement to match/beat the D850, and a theoretical Z8 would be a 20/24 MP version of the Z9?


Like, the Z8 would compete against the Sony A9 and Canon R3, right?
 
Last edited:
Do we miss anything from the z7 series sensor? No.

More pixels means bigger files, slower read out, worse noise and so on.

the z8 should be what the gfx100s is for gfx100.
What we miss from both the Z6 and Z7 series sensor is readout speed. The readout speed on these sensors is 1/22 sec and 1/16 sec, respectively. And that is too slow for quality continuous AF, reliable tracking, and blackout free bursts.

What we don't know is whether they will take the Z9 sensor down to lower level bodies, or develop a new sensor for those bodies that hits the 1/60 second mark for readout speed.

As I see it, the issue with a non-grip body is that there isn't room for the battery and CPU processors to run that Z9 sensor to full capacity.
Don't forget the Heat Sink Required to keep both running cooler for longer periods.... but the readout speed and processor does not have to run at the same speed as Z9 - therefore less load on the heatsink requirement and smaller body, less load on the batteries as well....
If the readout speed is not Z9 speed, then the camera will need a mechanical shutter. What the Z8 would not need is the burst speed, which would reduce the processing load and heatsink requirements.

But, the readout speed needs to be at least 1/60 second, and preferably 1/120 sec. If it is not the Z9 speed, then it is likely a different sensor. Using the same sensor, downstream processing requirements can be modified for lower processing power.
 
So, wait... I'm confused why the Z8 is going to be a D850 replacement? Is that not the Z7 series role? For so many reasons I think the Z7 is the D850 replacement (i.e. IQ, nearly/same BSI sensor, price bracket, ISO performance, etc.)

So like, if we get a Z8 that is a Z9 in a Z7/6/5 body, where does that leave the Z7? If the Z8 is a resolution flagship, then the Z7 is a budget resolution camera... but it still needs to be higher in the food chain than the lower-res flagship (the Z6)... unless they start butchering the features of the Z7 series to be more akin to how the Z5 relates to the Z6? I don't know, that just doesn't make sense to me. For the past few years it's been D8xx => Z7x, D7xx => Z6x, and D6xx => Z5x. I feel like a Z7iii would bring the AF improvement to match/beat the D850, and a theoretical Z8 would be a 20/24 MP version of the Z9?

Like, the Z8 would compete against the Sony A9 and Canon R3, right?
This is what people don't get, they ask for a Z8 as if the Z6 and Z7 didn't exist and as if it were 2012. I really think Nikon is over extending themselves even with the Z5, the should do what Apple and Sony does, keep the previous models and sell them cheap instead of having yet another SKU.
 
So, wait... I'm confused why the Z8 is going to be a D850 replacement? Is that not the Z7 series role? For so many reasons I think the Z7 is the D850 replacement (i.e. IQ, nearly/same BSI sensor, price bracket, ISO performance, etc.)

So like, if we get a Z8 that is a Z9 in a Z7/6/5 body, where does that leave the Z7? If the Z8 is a resolution flagship, then the Z7 is a budget resolution camera... but it still needs to be higher in the food chain than the lower-res flagship (the Z6)... unless they start butchering the features of the Z7 series to be more akin to how the Z5 relates to the Z6? I don't know, that just doesn't make sense to me. For the past few years it's been D8xx => Z7x, D7xx => Z6x, and D6xx => Z5x. I feel like a Z7iii would bring the AF improvement to match/beat the D850, and a theoretical Z8 would be a 20/24 MP version of the Z9?

Like, the Z8 would compete against the Sony A9 and Canon R3, right?
The Z7II is clearly superior to the D850 in most ways, including most aspects of AF.

There are just a few aspects (some cases of AF tracking, less function options,…) in which the D850 remains ahead.

This has been used by troll farms as part of the on going anti-Nikon campaign to spread the view that the Z7II is not a D850 replacement to increase the chance of D850 users ti migrate to competition.

I believe that there is going to be a Z8 in 2022 and a Z7III in 2023.

The differentiation will be, as always with Nikon, about what the Z8 does more. My guess is higher res, a larger non gripped body and a stacked sensor.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top