The Nikon Z9 Launches a New Era for Photography....

chambeshi

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I'm sure it will be a great camera but so many seem to be over-playing the shutter removal. Sure, it is unique but it is not like A9, A1, 1DX4, even Fuji XT3's, Olympus EM1's etc have not been making significant use of their cameras in ES mode. Some, like the A1's etc are obviously intended to mostly be used in ES mode... but they do have a shutter when higher DR is needed.

Maybe Nikon solved most, if not all of the issues with a faster readout but I bet they could have squeezed even more DR out if they have left that shutter in for the landscape shooters, etc.

Removing it at this point seems more of a disadvantage than any advantage beyond marketing and of course, allowing them to replace it with that stronger protective shutter which quite amazing.
 
D3 Moment ?

Much more because it equates more to the Nikon D1 Launch and arguably events that unfolded into Digital Photography ....

The loss of the Mechanical Shutter to an entirely On-Sensor Electronic Shutter precedes more and more integration of imaging functions in silico....
I still remember both the D1 launch and D3 launch very well. While both of them set important milestones for (digital) photography, Nikon's lead never lasted all that long. The D3 was announced in August 2007 and at the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics, people observed roughly equal numbers of Canon white lenses and Nikon black super teles. Prior to that, Canon totally dominated sports photography for a couple of decades. However, after a few years, past the 2012 36MP D800, Nikon was gradually falling behind again. It only took a few more years for Sony to take the lead for mirrorless and Nikon fell into 3rd place.

I am very glad to see the Z9, but the competition keeps on going.
 
D3 Moment ?

Much more because it equates more to the Nikon D1 Launch and arguably events that unfolded into Digital Photography ....

The loss of the Mechanical Shutter to an entirely On-Sensor Electronic Shutter precedes more and more integration of imaging functions in silico....
I still remember both the D1 launch and D3 launch very well. While both of them set important milestones for (digital) photography, Nikon's lead never lasted all that long. The D3 was announced in August 2007 and at the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics, people observed roughly equal numbers of Canon white lenses and Nikon black super teles. Prior to that, Canon totally dominated sports photography for a couple of decades. However, after a few years, past the 2012 36MP D800, Nikon was gradually falling behind again. It only took a few more years for Sony to take the lead for mirrorless and Nikon fell into 3rd place.

I am very glad to see the Z9, but the competition keeps on going.
The Canon R1 should be next to take the crown in a year's time
 
Much more because it equates more to the Nikon D1 Launch and arguably events that unfolded into Digital Photography ....

The loss of the Mechanical Shutter to an entirely On-Sensor Electronic Shutter precedes more and more integration of imaging functions in silico....
I still remember both the D1 launch and D3 launch very well. While both of them set important milestones for (digital) photography, Nikon's lead never lasted all that long. The D3 was announced in August 2007 and at the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics, people observed roughly equal numbers of Canon white lenses and Nikon black super teles. Prior to that, Canon totally dominated sports photography for a couple of decades. However, after a few years, past the 2012 36MP D800, Nikon was gradually falling behind again. It only took a few more years for Sony to take the lead for mirrorless and Nikon fell into 3rd place.

I am very glad to see the Z9, but the competition keeps on going.
The Canon R1 should be next to take the crown in a year's time
Canon is certainly a strong contender and so is Sony, although personally I don't like those small Sony bodies, as a company, they have great electronics in general.

The Canon R3 has interesting technologies also, e.g. features such as eye-control AF, but it lacks 46MP and therefore 8K video. Presumably there will be an R1 within the next year or two, but the R3 is already $6000. I wonder how Canon will price any hypothetical R1.

I also feel that the Z9's electronics will only be good for at most 2, maybe 3 years. It won't be all that long before it will look dated and Nikon will need a 2nd-gen Z9.
 
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The Canon R1 should be next to take the crown in a year's time
By doing what? Everyone’s AF is great at this point, even the R3 is amazing. They’re already doing 30 FPS in the R3. With a likely $10,000 price point (even the R3 is priced above the Z9), what do you think might be in there justifies the price tag?
 
I also feel that the Z9's electronics will only be good for at most 2, maybe 3 years. It won't be all that long before it will look dated and Nikon will need a 2nd-gen Z9.
What is it that people think is coming? The camera industry is pretty slow moving. I feel like the switch to mirrorless cameras has people convinced that things are going to move significantly faster than ever before. Technology doesn’t really do that.

What do you anticipate is going to come along in the next three years that’s going to make the Z9 so dated?
 
Well the hype is real, even trickling down to many who had not considered buying a flagship camera (including me). On paper - and more importantly the hands-on-reviews suggest a really, really good camera.

Also interesting is the reading about it positively on non-Nikon sites and forums, congratulatory approval from users of other brands.
D3 Moment ?

Much more because it equates more to the Nikon D1 Launch and arguably events that unfolded into Digital Photography ....

The loss of the Mechanical Shutter to an entirely On-Sensor Electronic Shutter precedes more and more integration of imaging functions in silico....

https://bythom.com/newsviews/yes-the-camera-world-change.html

and https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/winners-and-losers.html
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Knew very little about photography when I decided to buy the awesome Nikon D70; learned quickly that this expensive camera didn't make me a good photographer.
Http://kristerp.wordpress.com
 
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... What do you anticipate is going to come along in the next three years that’s going to make the Z9 so dated?
The Z6 is about three years old and the improved autofocus in the Z6II makes it look dated although it's own autofocus is considered below average vs. the competition. The technology is changing faster than it appears. When they were working on the Z6 they did not account for the jump in autofocus technology and it left them with a product they had to refresh much faster than anticipated.
 
... What do you anticipate is going to come along in the next three years that’s going to make the Z9 so dated?
The Z6 is about three years old and the improved autofocus in the Z6II makes it look dated although it's own autofocus is considered below average vs. the competition. The technology is changing faster than it appears. When they were working on the Z6 they did not account for the jump in autofocus technology and it left them with a product they had to refresh much faster than anticipated.
The Z6’s autofocus was dated when it came out. It didn’t even have eye AF, it was added via a firmware update. That’s why Sony took over the mirrorless space. Nikon and Canon weren’t even in the mirrorless space, so both first gen cameras were behind where Sony was.

The next real move is probably going to be some sort of computational photography like in phones or a more sophisticated way to get your photos immediately into the cloud. Unfortunately, we’re capturing more high resolution images than ever, so that’s probably a long time from now.

The biggest enemies of the high resolution, high frame rate, 8K camera era is storage. That’s why even if Canon were to release some kind of 80 MP, 50 FPS camera, how excited can any of us really get for that, knowing we’re almost never going to want to go through that many high res photos.
 
Can you really say that (Nikon) launched a new era for photography?

I don't mean to disrespect anyone but I think Sony started doing that quite a while ago. Then and recently Canon finally caught up, and now Nikon. Sure, Nikon has made a few modifications and improvements of their own here and there, and in a way that was to be somehow expected due to serious competition and that is indeed wonderful and it benefits us all, but I don't think Nikon has "launched" a new era of anything here, IMHO.
 
Can you really say that (Nikon) launched a new era for photography?

I don't mean to disrespect anyone but I think Sony started doing that quite a while ago. Then and recently Canon finally caught up, and now Nikon. Sure, Nikon has made a few modifications and improvements of their own here and there, and in a way that was to be somehow expected due to serious competition and that is indeed wonderful and it benefits us all, but I don't think Nikon has "launched" a new era of anything here, IMHO.
Yeah, Sony really innovated and established the capabilities of mirrorless cameras. Although the Z9 isn’t just a catchup IMO.

Based on what we’ve seen, there are a number of innovations in the camera. No electronic shutter is a big deal, two CF Express slots, the 8K60 is massive and the high efficiency RAW setup is a game changer. Now if you want smaller files, you don’t need to lose information or shoot at a lower resolution.
 
I also feel that the Z9's electronics will only be good for at most 2, maybe 3 years. It won't be all that long before it will look dated and Nikon will need a 2nd-gen Z9.
What is it that people think is coming? The camera industry is pretty slow moving. I feel like the switch to mirrorless cameras has people convinced that things are going to move significantly faster than ever before. Technology doesn’t really do that.
I wonder whether you remember that technologies changed rapidly from the 1999 Nikon D1 to the 2007 D3, and it continued to evolve. The D3 broke new grounds on high-ISO results, but the 2009 D3s got much better ....
What do you anticipate is going to come along in the next three years that’s going to make the Z9 so dated?
On the Z9, the uncompressed RAW option is gone. And instead of lossy compressed, Nikon give it nicer-sounding names High Efficiency* and High Efficiency. It reminds me that junk bonds are also called high-yield bonds.

The Z9 is relying on high compression, lossy RAW files to achieve its speed, and yet it tops at 20 fps for RAW while the competition can already do 30 fps. Perhaps "High Efficiency" is good enough, but I am waiting for more test results from production Z9. One thing I'd like to see is 30 fps, 40 fps RAW without so much compression. That is one easy improvement with newer technologies. Perhaps after 40 fps, we'll only see diminishing returns with even higher frame rates.

The CFexpress standard allows up to 8 PCIe lanes for data transfer. Type A cards have just one lane, and Type B cards have two. Potentially we may have more lanes for even faster data transfer so that we can get 40 fps with less compression. Perhaps we can also get 8K, 120p video ....

I am sure that there can be a lot more improvements than what I can imagine. The smart product managers and engineers at Nikon, Canon, and Sony will figure that out.
 
Please enlighten us with a list of pluses and minuses that show "more of a disadvantage."
Removing it at this point seems more of a disadvantage than any advantage beyond
 
D3 Moment ?

Much more because it equates more to the Nikon D1 Launch and arguably events that unfolded into Digital Photography ....

The loss of the Mechanical Shutter to an entirely On-Sensor Electronic Shutter precedes more and more integration of imaging functions in silico....

https://bythom.com/newsviews/yes-the-camera-world-change.html

and https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/winners-and-losers.html
I am waiting for a time when press conferences will not be filled with the incessant clack-clack-clack of mirror slap and shutter smack.
 
Can someone explain the difference to me? They sound like the same goals are meant to be achieved, so is this more marketing or something real? Thanks.
 
I also feel that the Z9's electronics will only be good for at most 2, maybe 3 years. It won't be all that long before it will look dated and Nikon will need a 2nd-gen Z9.
What is it that people think is coming? The camera industry is pretty slow moving. I feel like the switch to mirrorless cameras has people convinced that things are going to move significantly faster than ever before. Technology doesn’t really do that.
I wonder whether you remember that technologies changed rapidly from the 1999 Nikon D1 to the 2007 D3, and it continued to evolve. The D3 broke new grounds on high-ISO results, but the 2009 D3s got much better ....
What do you anticipate is going to come along in the next three years that’s going to make the Z9 so dated?
The CFexpress standard allows up to 8 PCIe lanes for data transfer. Type A cards have just one lane, and Type B cards have two. Potentially we may have more lanes for even faster data transfer so that we can get 40 fps with less compression. Perhaps we can also get 8K, 120p video ....
How about a specialized battery grip that can hold an M.2 ssd card with 4 PCie lanes and write speeds of 3300MB/s? Would instantly drop storage costs and improve performance. Third party would do it in an instant if there was a PCie pipeline to that part of the camera.
 
The Canon R1 should be next to take the crown in a year's time
By doing what?
Use your imagination ;-)
Technology will change over the next five to ten years, but there isn’t anything that Canon is going to release that’s going to make the A1 and Z9 irrelevant or make users of those cameras consider switching systems.

They’ll probably all be similarly capable. Even if Canon pulls off more megapixels or more FPS than the other brands, that’s the sort of thing that will appeal to YouTubers who compare spec sheets more than actual photographers.

Even within the Canon ecosystem, how many R5 users honestly feel tempted by the R3? The cameras that are on the market now are going to satisfy shooters for a long time.

Let’s be real here, you can still shoot whatever comes up with a D850 or 5DMK4 and be A-OK. The flagships now are that much better, but I don’t see a camera representing that sort of leap for a long, long time.
 
The Z9 is relying on high compression, lossy RAW files to achieve its speed, and yet it tops at 20 fps for RAW while the competition can already do 30 fps.
Err, no, it does not. The Z9 can do 20fps in 14-bit lossless RAW. It can do 30 fps in JPEG. The Sony A1 can do 30fps in RAW, but that is lossy 12-bit RAW. And the Z9 can do 120fps in 11MP JPEG.

I think it's fair to say that they are both in the same ballpark.

What would be more interesting to me is the extent to which the cameras slow down if they do autofocus tracking. At least, I assume that might be the case.
Perhaps "High Efficiency" is good enough, but I am waiting for more test results from production Z9. One thing I'd like to see is 30 fps, 40 fps RAW without so much compression. That is one easy improvement with newer technologies. Perhaps after 40 fps, we'll only see diminishing returns with even higher frame rates.
I think the bottleneck is memory card speed here. 45MP files are about 55MB each. Write 20 of those per second to a memory card and you have to have a minimum sustained writing speed of 1100MB/s. Which is doable, though the camera probably isn't writing 100% of the time (due to overhead, starting new files, etc). 30 14-bit lossless frames per second though... yeah you're starting to get into trouble. The fastest cards do 1400MB/s sustained, so even they would not be able to cope.

Of course, buffer memory is much faster and would be able to cope. But then you have that 40fps for... just 1 second, maybe?
The CFexpress standard allows up to 8 PCIe lanes for data transfer. Type A cards have just one lane, and Type B cards have two. Potentially we may have more lanes for even faster data transfer so that we can get 40 fps with less compression. Perhaps we can also get 8K, 120p video ....
I think type-B has a theoretical limit of 2000 MB/s. Matt Granger mentioned this in his video anyway.
I am sure that there can be a lot more improvements than what I can imagine. The smart product managers and engineers at Nikon, Canon, and Sony will figure that out.
I watched this video yesterday in which Seth Miranda hinted at more capabilities coming to the Z9 via firmware upgrades. He couldn't be specific of course, but he was quite enthusiastic.
 
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