Iphone 13 Pro Max Raw - Poor Quality and Wildly Underexposed?

JScherer75 · Oct 12, 2021

Hey all,

Got the opportunity to play a great golf course yesterday but there was a bad threat of heavy rain and I have no waterproofing for a camera in my golf bag so I thought it would be a good time to give the new raw feature on the iPhone 13 pro max a try… and it’s terrible, I’m a little shocked at how poor they turned out. Then it got worse when I tried to edit it.

They seem edited despite being “raw” and come off as super soft and overall poor quality and then even more to my surprise I decided since it was raw I would put a couple through Lightroom Mobile and this is how it showed up when it went into Lightroom. First is a screenshot from Lightroom of the DNG and second is a screenshot of the photo as it shows up in the camera roll. Third I’ve included the actual file. EDIT: The actual file here obviously looks like what it does on the iphone camera roll which is surprising, not underexposed but the quality is still terrible. (separate matter)

As you can tell Lightroom is telling me it’s wildly underexposed, 2.5 stops give or take a little bit.

Is this a Lightroom problem? Is the phone doing something to the photo even though it says it’s “raw”? I certainly did not see anything that would’ve let me control the exposure, it showed it as good on the screen when I took the photo.

Screenshot of photo in Lightroom

Screenshot of photo in camera roll

Raw photo

Droo · Oct 12, 2021

I don't know regarding the exposure, and that should be no significant issue since the file has enough bit depth to not lose any information when exposure is corrected.

But from what I have seen so far, ProRAW is not truly RAW and has baked in sharpening and noise reduction. It looks like the noise reduction here removes lots of detail and makes it look poor quality.

JScherer75 · Oct 12, 2021

Droo said:
I don't know regarding the exposure, and that should be no significant issue since the file has enough bit depth to not lose any information when exposure is corrected.

But from what I have seen so far, ProRAW is not truly RAW and has baked in sharpening and noise reduction. It looks like the noise reduction here removes lots of detail and makes it look poor quality.

Its bizarre it has that stuff baked in, especially at 32 ISO, I mean we really need noise reduction there?

Droo · Oct 12, 2021

JScherer75 said:
Its bizarre it has that stuff baked in, especially at 32 ISO, I mean we really need noise reduction there?

Well, Apple thinks you do. You don't get to decide on your sharpening and noise reduction. Even worse that a little chroma noise reduction can already have a great positive effect without harming detail, but Apple has decided for the users that no noise at all is the way to go. It's very disappointing.

jst13 · Oct 12, 2021

Lightroom is not supporting the iphone 13 yet..look at the camera raw supported list..so wait for an update. That happen each year for the new iphones.-….Iam wondering why people complain this year over year…boring

JT26 · Oct 13, 2021

Hi,

I don't know why it happens but probably a support issue, its default settings seems to open some images really dark, but don't worry all of the information is still there, just increase the exposure and reduce highlights, or keep exposure the same and increase shadows.

No quality issue at all and you're not introducing any noise by doing this. Its just a weird thing that happens with pro raw.

Just wait for update. But its only a settings issue anyway

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JT26 · Oct 13, 2021

You literally reply with this every single time you get an opportunity. The Pro Raw function has a lot less sharpening and a lot less noise reduction than the JPGS.

It isn't perfect but the file quality is top notch for 12mp. And the Dynamic range is exceptional.

Jostian · Oct 13, 2021

JScherer75 said:
Droo said:

I don't know regarding the exposure, and that should be no significant issue since the file has enough bit depth to not lose any information when exposure is corrected.

But from what I have seen so far, ProRAW is not truly RAW and has baked in sharpening and noise reduction. It looks like the noise reduction here removes lots of detail and makes it look poor quality.

Click to expand...

Its bizarre it has that stuff baked in, especially at 32 ISO, I mean we really need noise reduction there?

yes I think this is one of main frustrations with iPhone and Samsung, is this heavy handed NR and sharpening across the board, even in bright light and low ISO's... just makes photos look quite unnatural when looking a bit closer) they look fine on the phone etc, but fall apart quite quick when taking a closer look. Like the iPhone 13 Pro max gallery here on DPReview, when I looked (for example) at the feather detail in the chicken shot, where the chickens are nice and close (2 or 3 ft) to the phone, there is zero feather detail, which was a shock, all smeared away due to NR, very disappointing.

see link to gallery https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/4660266261/apple-iphone-13-pro-sample-gallery/1749160601 and crop of the feather detail below, very poor. And below that a 100% crop of the top of my cats head from around 2 ft SOOC jpeg, where individual hairs are easily visible.

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JT26 · Oct 13, 2021

Wouldn't it be fair to compare 100% crop with 100% crop?

The shot of the chicken, is with the ultra wide lens in dim light. 100% crop is below... Still not great but not bad.

308ebf69633e4d808531454ba5050be0.jpg.png

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Sy_EA · Oct 13, 2021

Interesting, I've only had my iPhone 13 pro since the weekend but I've found the results to be very good in ProRaw although there is a bit of a learning curve that isn't particularly clear.

I don't post here much but here's my learnings so far (go easy).

When you first open the raw file in Lightroom Mobile the profile is set to Apple Embedded Colour Profile.

In my mind consider this the flat DNG with none of the ProRaw enabled computational information from the raw file, hence the image is 'Quite dark and rather flat'

Now to enable all the computational stuff I found you need to pick the 'Apple ProRaw profile'

When you do this exposure will generally look alright.

What you also notice is that under the profile is a slider, this in my mind lets you enable how much of the 'computational effect' you want applied to the image. (Brightens shadows without noise and brings back details from the highlights'

Then make your typical edits and sharpening.

In my testing I've been impressed, its definitely a learning process, and the colour science is different from my old pixel 4a but its definitely a step up.

Here's a quick example to show what I've been able to achieve which for my needs is pretty good. Also I've found the dynamic range with ProRaw profile to be quite impressive although apple's colour science leaves a little to be desired for my taste at times (easily fixed tho).

Full size edited ProRaw - exported 100% jpeg below (Shame it was such a dull grey day)

Jostian · Oct 14, 2021

JT26 said:
Wouldn't it be fair to compare 100% crop with 100% crop?

The shot of the chicken, is with the ultra wide lens in dim light. 100% crop is below... Still not great but not bad.

my crop is at 100% and at a higher iso, 160 iso for the iPhone and 200 iso from the Huawei also in dim light (in my lounge in the eve), definitely not great from the iPhone.

Jostian

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Jostian · Oct 14, 2021

Sy_EA said:
Interesting, I've only had my iPhone 13 pro since the weekend but I've found the results to be very good in ProRaw although there is a bit of a learning curve that isn't particularly clear.

I don't post here much but here's my learnings so far (go easy).

When you first open the raw file in Lightroom Mobile the profile is set to Apple Embedded Colour Profile.

In my mind consider this the flat DNG with none of the ProRaw enabled computational information from the raw file, hence the image is 'Quite dark and rather flat'

Now to enable all the computational stuff I found you need to pick the 'Apple ProRaw profile'

When you do this exposure will generally look alright.

What you also notice is that under the profile is a slider, this in my mind lets you enable how much of the 'computational effect' you want applied to the image. (Brightens shadows without noise and brings back details from the highlights'

Then make your typical edits and sharpening.

In my testing I've been impressed, its definitely a learning process, and the colour science is different from my old pixel 4a but its definitely a step up.

Here's a quick example to show what I've been able to achieve which for my needs is pretty good. Also I've found the dynamic range with ProRaw profile to be quite impressive although apple's colour science leaves a little to be desired for my taste at times (easily fixed tho).

Full size edited ProRaw - exported 100% jpeg below (Shame it was such a dull grey day)

nice, shows what can be done with RAW, but the frustration is if you'd taken the same shot just in SOOC jpeg and compared it to the processed RAW above, you'd see a massive difference. I would love Apple and Samsung to get their SOOC jpegs looking more natural like the RAW files, not these heavy handed NR smeary messes with no fine detail, when actually the detail is there, we can see it in the RAWs.

see below, from iPhone 12 I think, see left crop (SOOC jpeg) vs the right side crop (from RAW) massive difference, just get the SOOC jpegs to look more like the RAWs.

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JT26 · Oct 14, 2021

I understand yours were, but the iPhone shot was well past 100%. And as I said, this was the Ultra Wide lens...

Jostian · Oct 14, 2021

JT26 said:
I understand yours were, but the iPhone shot was well past 100%.

Nope loupe in gallery is at 100%, thats the standard that DPReview gallery uses. You can see that when you select the 100% zoom option and compare it to the Loupe view, identical.

JT26 said:
And as I said, this was the Ultra Wide lens...

same is evident on standard lens see crop below (from portrait of guy with sunglasses), again very smeary will little fine detail. Again, not great at all and even at iso 40 the crop below that shows no skin or fine detail.

here 100% crop SOOC jpeg from my Note 20 and in lower light

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JT26 · Oct 14, 2021

Oh my word, surely you can just see from your naked eye that those are way past 100%? No?

Here is a screenshot from my Mac, showing photoshop at 100% view, clearly the gallery loupe version is around double the size.

2326b160a2ae42f89444f18bde67bcb7.jpg.png

I can post hundreds of iPhone 13 images at 100%, that show very clean, crisp images, like any other phone in 2021.

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dazed1 · Oct 14, 2021

Droo said:
I don't know regarding the exposure, and that should be no significant issue since the file has enough bit depth to not lose any information when exposure is corrected.

But from what I have seen so far, ProRAW is not truly RAW and has baked in sharpening and noise reduction. It looks like the noise reduction here removes lots of detail and makes it look poor quality.

Exactly, thats why for true mobile photography you get an high end android with good gcam support, usually flagships Xiaomi phones since they got the best sensors, Mi 10U is 550 euros, it will wipe the floor with the iPhone 13 pro, or Mi 11 pro for 600, even better with insane quality tele Mi 11 ultra for 750.

rickb61 · Oct 14, 2021

I own the Xaiomi Mi 10 Lite and the Mi 10 Pro. Under some conditions the images are very good, but the cameras tend to screw up too much for my taste. Focus is often off with even moderate close-ups. The Android OS is not much fun.

I got so tired of this I switched to an iPhone 12 Pro Max which has a much higher proportion of acceptable images. The user experience for me with the iPhone is much easier too.

JScherer75 · Oct 14, 2021

Sy_EA said:
Interesting, I've only had my iPhone 13 pro since the weekend but I've found the results to be very good in ProRaw although there is a bit of a learning curve that isn't particularly clear.

I don't post here much but here's my learnings so far (go easy).

When you first open the raw file in Lightroom Mobile the profile is set to Apple Embedded Colour Profile.

In my mind consider this the flat DNG with none of the ProRaw enabled computational information from the raw file, hence the image is 'Quite dark and rather flat'

Now to enable all the computational stuff I found you need to pick the 'Apple ProRaw profile'

When you do this exposure will generally look alright.

What you also notice is that under the profile is a slider, this in my mind lets you enable how much of the 'computational effect' you want applied to the image. (Brightens shadows without noise and brings back details from the highlights'

Then make your typical edits and sharpening.

In my testing I've been impressed, its definitely a learning process, and the colour science is different from my old pixel 4a but its definitely a step up.

Here's a quick example to show what I've been able to achieve which for my needs is pretty good. Also I've found the dynamic range with ProRaw profile to be quite impressive although apple's colour science leaves a little to be desired for my taste at times (easily fixed tho).

Full size edited ProRaw - exported 100% jpeg below (Shame it was such a dull grey day)

Gave this a try, and no it isn’t perfect but using the profile I think I got slightly better results at 75% profile. Although I still can’t help but laugh at the amount of noise reduction at 32 ISO hahaha

Droo · Oct 14, 2021

JScherer75 said:
Gave this a try, and no it isn’t perfect but using the profile I think I got slightly better results at 75% profile. Although I still can’t help but laugh at the amount of noise reduction at 32 ISO hahaha

Is this with LR noise reduction completely off?

Jostian · Oct 15, 2021

JT26 said:
Oh my word, surely you can just see from your naked eye that those are way past 100%? No?

Here is a screenshot from my Mac, showing photoshop at 100% view, clearly the gallery loupe version is around double the size.

I can post hundreds of iPhone 13 images at 100%, that show very clean, crisp images, like any other phone in 2021.

You're dreaming, so DPReviews loupe, 100% zoom and my PC are wrong...I seriously doubt it, I downloaded a few and opened them in DxO and it's 100% nothing more nothing less, show us a 100% crop of the feather region that's crisp and sharp... There is no fine feather detail at all!

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Iphone 13 Pro Max Raw - Poor Quality and Wildly Underexposed?

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