Lens choice for D7500 video practice on a tripod

I just took my D7500 out on a sunny day and shot on all the Camera Profiles available to me. Flat sucked, I mean it was horrible. I haven't checked out all the videos I took a few days ago up at a pristine alpine lake but I have my fingers crossed...

Flat looked so bad it was like something was wrong with my camera. No contrast (expected), washed out colors (expected) very very unsharp, like I'd taken my camera off AF and just winged the focus and missed badly. That bad. Of course, I didn't know that at the time so I press on.

To summarize what I found out: Flat is unusable at least for stills. Neutral is much better, a touch of color, way more sharpness and better focused (for want of a better description).
Did you grade the footage you shot in flat?

You will need to add saturation, color balance (CB) midtone details (MD) sharpness, and contrast. The method for adding contrast is really up to you. Some people like to use an S curve in the curves panel. Some people like to use the numeric Contrast value in the correction wheels palette. Some people like to use Lift and Gain color wheels.
I will, but that's the next step in my learning how to use DR17. As it is, being a stills guy, I just tried again shooting stills in Flat then Neutral then Standard. I hoped this set would not be as alarming as the last set of stills I took in Flat. And...

I took both the jpegs and raws into Lightroom (where I live most of the time) and I have to say the Flat images just weren't recoverable. No matter what I did to either the jpegs or raws, I could not bring up the sharpness to match even Neutral. Like I said previously, it's like the camera purposely mis-focuses on Flat. Closeup of a flower revealed a mis-focused center, better on Neutral, looks great on Standard. Bumping up the Clarity and Sharpness and Contrast etc on the Flat images did basically nothing.

So I just looked at one of the vids I took in Flat (not in DR17) and a guy can't tell anything, really. Who knows if the video will sharpen up in the Color page. If it does, for some reason, shooting in Flat in a video, the camera just processes things totally differently.

I've never shot stills in Flat and it's a shock, really, giving results I would have never imagined. Learn something new everyday, right? Now into Resolve 17 and see what I can come up with. Stay tuned.
Thanks for the elaboration.

Can you upload one of the RAW photos shot in flat somewhere so we can download it and monkey around with it? Maybe the corresponding jpg file, too.

In theory, if you are shooting RAW stills, the picture profile won't matter (as far as I know), because picture profiles only affect JPG and video files (traditionally... maybe Nikon has done something with the D7500 RAW metadata??? Hopefully StoneJack can chime in since he has shot video on the D7500)
 
Flat

f793ed5cf67b4cada7ef8d018a388842.jpg

Neutral

998699fbdd8a4434b1216ed761ebf01e.jpg

Standard

a369874ce7a74aaabaaa377357e5980f.jpg

This will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. I just couldn't bring up the Flat to look like the Standard, it stayed muddy. I would have thought tweaking the sliders in LR would do the trick (which I've been doing for years) but it was not to be

And fooling around with the raws didn't help

Check out the stamens of the lower left flower from image to image...Yikes!
 
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I'm a stills shooter but I'm going to have time on an upcoming trip to actually devote solely to learning 4k video on my D7500.

I'm going to be shooting on a tripod, no panning, no handheld, I just want to get a bunch of clips to work on when I get back.

All my shooting is going to outside, in the forest, on a lake shore, low light to bright daylight.

My choice of lenses are:

1) 18-140, a lens I use for walkaround stills

2) 18-55 AF-P

3) 10-20 AF-P

4) Sigma 17-50

The main reason I'm asking you fine folks here is there's bound to be considerations that I'm not aware of in making my choice, seeing that the usage is shooting video and not stills. Thanks.
Afp lenses are silent and video oriented. They also reduce lens breathing. Because d7500 is a dslr, lens breathing remains to certain degree but it is less pronounced to avoid it fully choose manual focusing but even with af you can edit out lens breathing parts later and get very good 4k for trackinf af video choose manual focusing as in hollywood
 
Between the OLPF, line-skipping down-sampling, and compression, my D700 loses a ton of detail in video mode.

Repeat the test with video clips, lock the camera off on a tripod, manually focus, and see if there's still a glaring sharpness difference.

You can dial up the in-camera sharpening of each profile, which I believe is applied before compression, but it has the potential to introduce artifacts. On the same note, you can dial down the contrast and saturation of the Neutral profile to make it a little flatter without going as far as the Flat profile.

To minimize artifacts when sharpening video in post processing, it's best to separate your luma from chroma in a layer node, and apply an unsharp mask to the luma. Here's a tutorial with a slightly different method but same result.

Maybe try a 3rd-party Flat profile that has a corresponding corrective LUT so you don't have to worry too much about grading, but bear in mind that many Flat profiles are sensor specific, so pick one that's designed for your camera.

Nikon never made a Flat profile for my D7000, so I've used 3rd-party TassinFlat, CineFlat, and VH PseudoLog. I like CineFlat and VH PseudoLog the best, but there's no corrective LUT for VH PseudoLog.
 
To minimize artifacts when sharpening video in post processing, it's best to separate your luma from chroma in a layer node, and apply an unsharp mask to the luma. Here's a tutorial with a slightly different method but same result.
One way to lessen the sharpening effect on chroma is to right click that sharpening node (the one where the color space was changed to LAB), and under the channels, un-check Channel 2 and Channel 3.

When working in LAB color space, Channel 1 is Luminance, while Channel 2 is Blue/Yellow and Channel 3 is Green/Magenta (I might have got those reversed, but Channel 1 is definitely Luminance). So in effect, by picking LAB color space for a node and then un-checking channels 2 and 3, you are better restricting the effects to only the Luminance.
 
In my quest to just make it as simple as possible for me to get up and running in DR17, I've been binge watching tutorials on Y'Tub

And they range from total beginner tutorials to videos that purport to be for the beginner but are pretty darn involved

First there was Waqas Qazi's "beginner" tutorial:

Yikes! Does your workflow look like that?

Then there was Daria Fissoun talking with Casey Faris about Color Management:


Is everything those two are discussing relevant to your workflow? Of course I'm not understanding 99% of what they're talking about but just trying to absorb the basic concepts...knowing fully that I probably will never need to know most of it. Heck, I'm still shooting on Standard and calling it good
 
Heck, I'm still shooting on Standard and calling it good
Really, that is the important part. If it looks good, then it is good.

Shooting in Flat or LOG (or even RAW) codecs will give you more flexibility down the road, should you need it. But you might not need it...
Then there was Daria Fissoun talking with Casey Faris about Color Management:


Is everything those two are discussing relevant to your workflow?
For most people, probably not.

Now, about 90% of what I shoot is in LOG (Panasonic V-LOG, actually), so I actually do apply the workflow they discuss in their videos pretty regularly.

But that is because I need the expanded dynamic range and I shoot in a lot of mixed lighting (natural daylight, tungsten lights, and fluorescent lights all in the same shot). So the flexibility of shooting in log helps me out for what I am trying to accomplish.

But I would say that most people either shoot in standard / natural profile, or maybe portrait profile, and call it a day. Some people might shoot in a LOG profile and apply a LUT they bought off the internet.

Resolve itself has built-in (as in FREE) LUT's for many cameras, but they usually only have ones for the LOG or RAW profiles of the cameras. I don't think they have one for Nikon's flat profile.

There have been a few mentions above of loading one of the third-party flat profiles on to your phone (I think something like CineFlat and TesseFlat or something like that). I think these are even FLATTER than Nikon's built in Flat profile.

They also make corresponding LUT's which you can import in to Resolve.

This makes grading MUCH EASIER, but a lot less flexible.
In my quest to just make it as simple as possible for me to get up and running in DR17, I've been binge watching tutorials on Y'Tub

And they range from total beginner tutorials to videos that purport to be for the beginner but are pretty darn involved

First there was Waqas Qazi's "beginner" tutorial:

Yikes! Does your workflow look like that?
Sometimes I worry about Qazi.

Don't get me wrong, he is a professional and I believe he does coloring for commercials and movies.

But every time he says, "Here's a simple way to..." you know there are going to be 37 nodes and his node tree is going to look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

Bottom Line Advice:

1) Keep it simple. Shoot in standard or natural or portrait. Something that looks good straight out of camera until you have some time to understand grading.

2) Focus on in-camera things, namely, getting the white balance correct, getting your exposure correct, focus, and learning any camera movements that might help with your video.

3) Put interesting things in front of the camera. It's "moving pictures" after all, so be sure that there is something worth watching in front of the lens.

4) Get good audio as best as you can. Maybe that means you need to record audio at the location (if you do, be on alert for wind noise, the bane of everyone recording audio outdoors). Or maybe it just means find some nice background music.

5) Work on editing. There are entire books written on good editing, but I would say just use editing to keep things interesting. If I were doing travel videos (even if they are just of the family), it is good to keep them short and sweet. I would look in to how to use the Cut page in resolve first because I think that will be the fastest way to edit for you.

6) Time-lapse / fast motion video: You can either shoot time-lapse photos and stitch them together, or you can shoot regular 30fps video and then just increase the speed in Resolve. Great for shooting things like clouds moving above a field or a cityscape with traffic going by.

I wouldn't start to worry about shooting in LOG or RAW or even FLAT profiles until you have something of a pretty good concept of the above 6 points first points. You don't have to master them, but try to be consistent at them.

Hope this helps.
 
Sometimes I worry about Qazi.

Don't get me wrong, he is a professional and I believe he does coloring for commercials and movies.

But every time he says, "Here's a simple way to..." you know there are going to be 37 nodes and his node tree is going to look like a Jackson Pollock painting.
That's sort of the point. His channel is selling courses for people that want to do Hollywood level stuff.

The trick with YT is to pick the channels that are targeted at you.


Learn Color Grading has more accessible stuff but even he is selling more advanced stuff.

Even so stuff like this is likely going to work for many people hoping for realistic results

 
It's like Photoshop: I do some fairly tricky stuff in PS, but it's specific for particular clients' requirements. I learned exactly how to do what they wanted and it wasn't easy. It took me two months to finally get it down to muscle memory. Now instead of trying to figure out how to do what I needed to do I just now do what I need to.

I'm gonna shoot on Neutral (Flat is just too shockingly minimal). I can't shoot video in raw or log so working with in-camera tweaked videos is my only choice for now. With some minimalist grading.

Getting the basic workflow in just editing a video is gonna take me months. I'll come back to color space management when I can actually put together a video.

My "problem" is it's just an open-ended study session with no end goal except just knowing how to edit a video. I'm not working towards starting a Y'tub channel or doing music vids or mountain bike races or anything, really. Maybe that's a decision I need to make so I have an end goal in mind other than just the process.
 
I'm gonna shoot on Neutral (Flat is just too shockingly minimal). I can't shoot video in raw or log so working with in-camera tweaked videos is my only choice for now. With some minimalist grading.
Sounds like a good plan.
Getting the basic workflow in just editing a video is gonna take me months. I'll come back to color space management when I can actually put together a video.

My "problem" is it's just an open-ended study session with no end goal except just knowing how to edit a video. I'm not working towards starting a Y'tub channel or doing music vids or mountain bike races or anything, really. Maybe that's a decision I need to make so I have an end goal in mind other than just the process.
You are right that having a specific goal in mind might be helpful.

I know that here on DPReview they have things like weekly photo challenges. Maybe you should assign yourself video challenges???

Now, shooting video tends to be a longer process than shooting stills (not a slight to stills shooters... but it sure takes ME a lot longer to shoot and edit video than it does to shoot and edit stills).

So... maybe just some small projects for every other weekend or every third weekend??? Something where you try to put together a short (thirty seconds or so) video. Even at only thirty seconds, you might end up with 10 or more shots to edit together. (And if your final video only has 10 shots, you might end up with thirty or forty different "takes" since it might take three or four takes to get one shot right... if you're lucky).
 
I'm a stills shooter but I'm going to have time on an upcoming trip to actually devote solely to learning 4k video on my D7500.
So with an extra 1.5x crop, giving a 2.25x crop relative to (full sensor width) FF.
I'm going to be shooting on a tripod, no panning, no handheld,
So single-AF (AF-S) should be just fine.
I just want to get a bunch of clips to work on when I get back.

All my shooting is going to outside, in the forest, on a lake shore, low light to bright daylight.

My choice of lenses are:

1) 18-140, a lens I use for walkaround stills

2) 18-55 AF-P

3) 10-20 AF-P
This is the only one that's wide when shooting 4k on D7500. Equivalent to 23-45mm on (full sensor width) FF.
4) Sigma 17-50
This is f/2.8. The fastest lens you have. Equivalent to 40-110mm on FF.

So those two. Unless you need the reach of the 18-140 (FF equiv 40-310mm) for wildlife or something.
The main reason I'm asking you fine folks here is there's bound to be considerations that I'm not aware of in making my choice, seeing that the usage is shooting video and not stills. Thanks.
 
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